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The ball doesn't matter! (Formerly, the Ultimate Ball Test)


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#211 stuway

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 08:48 AM

This thread can be summed up like this for me.  Half the people posting,  including the OP,  would be fun to have beer and BS with Imo.  The other half,  prolly not so much.

Dude acknowledges many differences in balls,  he is speaking strictly to scoring average for most amateurs.  Plain and simple.  Everyone arguing with him,  is arguing apples to oranges.

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#212 thug the bunny

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 11:27 PM

View Poststuway, on 07 May 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

This thread can be summed up like this for me.  Half the people posting,  including the OP,  would be fun to have beer and BS with Imo.  The other half,  prolly not so much.

Dude acknowledges many differences in balls,  he is speaking strictly to scoring average for most amateurs.  Plain and simple.  Everyone arguing with him,  is arguing apples to oranges.

I'm going with oranges on this one. Oranges are juicy and yummy, plus IMO they provide greater opportunities for cooking, mainly due to the application of marinades and glazes. I do love me some barbecued pork shoulder marinated in orange based goop.
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#213 spinball

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 02:28 PM

Great post! I'm all over the map on what ball to play. I always go with yellow though. I believe that yellow balls show opponents your "devil may care" attitude. It gets in their head.
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#214 Exactice808

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:01 PM

Bah for $!#% and Giggles.....

Just shot the best legit round of my life 76 with a wilson Elite 50 bright orange Golf ball, all my playing partners hate that ball....I wonder if its the ball or just me....

Anyways....... I alternate here and there with ProV1's but mostly play with my Elites.... cheap and effective.


To say I am losing strokes, really comes down to how I play that day....... If I could hit a shot and use a ball of choice for specific shots (Think Scramble tournaments)  Then we are talking about an advantage.....but during a round....... the choice of golf ball can go either way.

1) One day I am driving the ball great, so all my balls find the fairway and 90% of my shots Im hitting from good lies and have a greater GIR %.. No major chipping no need for crazy shots over bunkers and water and all that jazz 160-100 yard approaches and I am landing somewhere I can putt from,

2) Some days cant find crap and I am leaving my self short sided, and having to do a bunch of chip shots into greens, 50 yards, 30 yards etc.......


If I have my Elites or my ProV's on a day I am in the fairway and making great shots to the green...the ball means nothing.

On days when green side control is what saves me for up and downs, the ProVs will out perform the Elites...... but the biggest issues, I wont know the outcome until I hit the shot.....


So does a ball really make a difference?  Not really unless you know your game so well (Pro's) that it matters.....for us amateurs a little less likely......

Edited by Exactice808, 10 May 2016 - 02:40 PM.

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#215 gopherguts

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 09:54 PM

View PostExactice808, on 09 May 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

So does a ball really make a difference?  Not really unless you know your game so well (Pro's) that it matters.....for us amateurs a little less likely......

Ahhhhh, young Padawan,,,,,,,,,,,, If you don't think a good player, not necessarily a pro, can't/doesn't benefit from knowing and trusting how his ball reacts, TIME AFTER TIME, especially from 150 yards and in,,,,,,,,,, you don't know "Jack",,,,,,,,,,, :taunt:

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#216 BillyZ2

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 08:09 AM

I found these results very interesting, but probably meaningless:
FRONT NINE: 39 with TF D2+Distance
BACK NINE: 46 with ProV1X

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#217 Exactice808

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 02:40 PM

View Postgopherguts, on 09 May 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

View PostExactice808, on 09 May 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

So does a ball really make a difference?  Not really unless you know your game so well (Pro's) that it matters.....for us amateurs a little less likely......

Ahhhhh, young Padawan,,,,,,,,,,,, If you don't think a good player, not necessarily a pro, can't/doesn't benefit from knowing and trusting how his ball reacts, TIME AFTER TIME, especially from 150 yards and in,,,,,,,,,, you don't know "Jack",,,,,,,,,,, :taunt:


Crap you got me! Sorry that was a bad example, I agree..... "pro" should not have been used,  Lets just say again.... when you know your game well enough what types of shots you hit and how well you can manipulate the ball..... I know at a 18-15 I was getting there and only now as a 10 I know what I can do to the golf ball...... but at this point it doesnt really matter for me as I am not playing for millions so, I would rather keep my money in my pocket then lose a $4 golf ball in a pond LOL!
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#218 Snowman9000

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 03:56 PM

I wonder what type of ball most of us would play if all balls cost the same.  And there was no tour glamour associated with certain balls.  I really don't know.  I've tried several times to play urethanes, thinking I'd have more control around the green.  I've never stuck with them because I didn't see any help for my game.  The only balls I won't play are the ones that roll out like crazy on full shots into greens.  And if the greens are soft, even that doesn't matter.

Edited by Snowman9000, 10 May 2016 - 03:57 PM.


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#219 gopherguts

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 11:59 PM

View PostSnowman9000, on 10 May 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

I wonder what type of ball most of us would play if all balls cost the same.  And there was no tour glamour associated with certain balls.  I really don't know.  I've tried several times to play urethanes, thinking I'd have more control around the green.  I've never stuck with them because I didn't see any help for my game.  The only balls I won't play are the ones that roll out like crazy on full shots into greens.  And if the greens are soft, even that doesn't matter.

Personally I'm a big believer in choosing your ball from the green back to the tee. However, in so choosing, I wouldn't pick a ball that strayed much (releasing forward or spinning backward) from where it hit on the green with an 8 iron or less. This green being a "normal" firmness and level of course.

Having said that though I MUST get "reasonable" distance off the driver. I'll give up a few yards off the driver if the ball is clearly the best (as above) but not more than say 5,,,,,,,,,,

The ProV1x is the ball of choice right now. I AM looking into the Chrome Soft; maybe even the Snell. I pretty much try them all at one time or another - always seem to end up back with the ProV1x though,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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#220 Pinger89

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 10:55 AM

You scored over 2.5 strokes better playing balls you found. Given the fact that these "found balls" could range from a range ball to a Pro V1 and anything in between, this is honestly a tough test to perform with accurate results that lead to a conclusion. If you really want to perform this test and decide if the ball really matters, it needs to be performed comparing "tour balls" to "distance balls". Aka, go out there with your gamer tour ball and put it against rounds played with a 2-piece ball that doesn't have a urethane cover. I understand what you were going for here, but the "found balls" category is far too vague to come to any type of conclusion on whether or not the golf ball matters.

Just to play devil's advocate here... You did score over 2.5 strokes better with found golf balls. Now I'm going to assume that most of the golf balls that were found were cheaper, distance type balls lost by golfers who would typically buy cheaper distance type balls because they lose so many balls. With that being the case, considering you scored over 2.5 strokes better, I would say your study actually shows that the golf ball DOES matter, and you're simply playing the wrong ball for your game. You hit more fairways and more greens with the found balls, obviously resulting in a lower score because your putting seems to be pretty sound. And maybe your the type of player who likes to play with a bit more roll-out, especially in the short game area where maybe you don't control your spin consistently enough (like most of us), so the performance of a ball with a urethane cover just wasn't consistent enough to score well in the short-game area.

Like I said, that's assuming most of the rounds played with found balls were of the 2-piece ionomer/surlyn cover variety. Now obviously these are all assumptions, including the assumptions about your game, so as I stated previously a real test to determine if the golf ball truly matters would be to run a tour ball versus a distance ball. 3-Piece urethane cover versus 2-piece ionomer/surlyn blend cover and see what happens. That would be the best way to determine if golf ball selection matters, and the only result that would conclude the golf ball is irrelevant is if the average score is relatively the same (within a stroke). Anything more than a stroke difference... I would say the golf ball most certainly does matter.

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#221 finleysg

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 11:54 AM

View PostSnowman9000, on 10 May 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

I wonder what type of ball most of us would play if all balls cost the same.  And there was no tour glamour associated with certain balls.  I really don't know.  I've tried several times to play urethanes, thinking I'd have more control around the green.  I've never stuck with them because I didn't see any help for my game.  The only balls I won't play are the ones that roll out like crazy on full shots into greens.  And if the greens are soft, even that doesn't matter.

Good question. We might play something better suited to our game and home course. I play a course with large, firm greens. They will accept a shot, so long as it is either high or spinning. After 2+ years playing an NXT (and having to hit 10 - 15 paces short of my ultimate target), I switched to Tour Preferred. In the two months I've been playing that ball, I've found that I can carry it all the way to the target, which in turn has made my iron game more aggressive. My main concern is talking myself into an even more expensive ball. The inner cheapskate is already uncomfortable each time I wash a new TP in one of our ponds.

Edited by finleysg, 11 May 2016 - 11:55 AM.

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#222 Golf4lifer

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 12:44 PM

View Postfinleysg, on 11 May 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

View PostSnowman9000, on 10 May 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

I wonder what type of ball most of us would play if all balls cost the same.  And there was no tour glamour associated with certain balls.  I really don't know.  I've tried several times to play urethanes, thinking I'd have more control around the green.  I've never stuck with them because I didn't see any help for my game.  The only balls I won't play are the ones that roll out like crazy on full shots into greens.  And if the greens are soft, even that doesn't matter.

Good question. We might play something better suited to our game and home course. I play a course with large, firm greens. They will accept a shot, so long as it is either high or spinning. After 2+ years playing an NXT (and having to hit 10 - 15 paces short of my ultimate target), I switched to Tour Preferred. In the two months I've been playing that ball, I've found that I can carry it all the way to the target, which in turn has made my iron game more aggressive. My main concern is talking myself into an even more expensive ball. The inner cheapskate is already uncomfortable each time I wash a new TP in one of our ponds.

I am in the same boat you are. My inner cheapskate hates it when I drop one of my TPX's into the water, but he sure loves it when we hit one pin high and 6 feet from the hole and it stops. I try the cheaper balls all the time and each time I do I regret it as I watch the ball roll off the greens. I'm at the point now where I would rather pay more for the performance I want.

The ball does matter!

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#223 just plain bill

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 07:20 PM

maybe the found balls were prov's cuz they spin into the trees a lot more than a 2-piece...
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#224 Need2golfalot

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 12:21 PM

I learned how to play using 'found' golf balls from the woods.  Most of them were Top Flights and other cheap balls, so I'm used to the firm feel and extra roll out of a high compression distance ball.  At the same time I can appreciate the extra spin and control of premium urethane balls around the green.

I have a habit of pulling out a scuffed 'woods' ball or 'water' ball on difficult holes (water right and OB left).  If I'm tense and try to steer the ball rather than swing properly, bad results usually follow.  I think I swing better if I'm not worried about losing a new ball.  

Based on some good advice from this Forum I'm going to start playing the same type of ball at least for the whole round, and eventually for consecutive rounds.   Right now I'm playing through some Topflight XL, DT series, Precept Laddie, TM Burner, Nike PD Long, Wilson 50 Elite, Top Flight Gamer/Soft, Bridgestone e-6.  Going to try some Srixon Q-Star, Bridgestone 330-RXS and  Wilson FG tour.

Edited by Need2golfalot, 21 May 2016 - 01:06 PM.


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#225 thug the bunny

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 08:00 PM

View PostNeed2golfalot, on 21 May 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

I learned how to play using 'found' golf balls from the woods.  Most of them were Top Flights and other cheap balls, so I'm used to the firm feel and extra roll out of a high compression distance ball.  At the same time I can appreciate the extra spin and control of premium urethane balls around the green.

I have a habit of pulling out a scuffed 'woods' ball or 'water' ball on difficult holes (water right and OB left).  If I'm tense and try to steer the ball rather than swing properly, bad results usually follow.  I think I swing better if I'm not worried about losing a new ball.  

Based on some good advice from this Forum I'm going to start playing the same type of ball at least for the whole round, and eventually for consecutive rounds.   Right now I'm playing through some Topflight XL, DT series, Precept Laddie, TM Burner, Nike PD Long, Wilson 50 Elite, Top Flight Gamer/Soft, Bridgestone e-6.  Going to try some Srixon Q-Star, Bridgestone 330-RXS and  Wilson FG tour.

IMO, the Wilson FG tour is the best out of that bunch.

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#226 HackerD

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:10 AM

View PostBrianL99, on 29 April 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 29 April 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 29 April 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

View Postthug the bunny, on 28 April 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

So with a ball that runs how do you hit a 30 yd chip to a front pin? Or to any short sided situation? Or a chip downslope? How about over a bunker? How about a short sided downslope bunker shot?

Not many 10 handicappers can't hit any of those shorts consistently, on their best day.

& certainly can't consistently impart sufficient spin, to make "stopping power" a major issue.

I can hit 30 yd shots that check using a urethane ball and I'm a 9.

You apparently need to improve the rest of your game or have those chips, check closer to the hole.

I can also, as a 14, repeatably hit chips that check.  (My driver and approach game both suck.).  But overall agree with Brian's premise. Been experimenting lately with a distance ball and for my game it may actually net out better.  It's only once or twice a round that I have the short-sided chip over trouble that requires the spinner.  Controlling distance on longer bump n runs easier with distance ball, drives fly longer and straighter, etc.

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#227 darnoldil

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 06:59 PM

The OP has a number of research methodology problems with his experiment which lead to a number of internal validity gaffes.  From there the OP turns the topic for his "research" defense to innapropriate logic gambits that "support" his H0 based upon postulates.   I can guarantee that this research experiment would be shredded in the research community. With that said, I am NOT saying that the OP's stated H0 is wrong; why?  Because this "experiment" is so far out of reaserch parameters that none of the OP's data can be used to INFERENCE anything.  As researchers we ONLY accept or reject the H0; after that we INFER possibilities for FURTHER reaserch by not only ourselves but other qualified researchers. Please understand that statistics and reaserch are NOT the same.  Statistical analysis is a TOOL, based upon the selected instrument, that is used within one of the three types of reaserch  approach (quantitative, mixed, and qualitative).  The science of research methodology forms the RQ by determining it's viability of investigation, as there are many questions tha we simply can not investigate as given.  From that point the RQ informs which reaserch approach will be used, which then leads to the instrument/ruberic selection.  From that point the external and internal validity points, limitations/de-limitations, along withe the reasercher's biases (these must be stated initially)are framed.  Thus the OP must understand that the collection of data is not research, it's data collection and no inferences, let alone acceptance/rejection of either the null or the alternate hypothesis can be made.  

I do appreciate the OP's work.  I also appreciate MADD's responses pointing to some of the potential internal validity issues of the OP's work,  and the one gentleman's statistical analysis points that lead him to be able to say that this data provides NO scientifically supported information.  I also liked that same gentleman's point that if you looked at the OP's data however, it actually "seemed" to indicate that there WERE some differences ( with one of them showing some statistical significance; probably with a .05 Pvalue I presume but don't know, although a .01Pvalue would be totally awesome).  Furthermore I appreciate the one person's (with the Run DMC avitar) indications of potential external validity issues with the OP's "experiment" as well, and everyone who contributed their thoughts and experiences to this thread.

In summary, all that this exercise did however was to allow the OP to believe what he wanted under the guise of "reaserch".    Again, this speaks NOTHING to the point of whether the OP is on to something OR not.  I am simply stating that this was in NO WAY an acceptable scientific reaserch experiment that would have even the most infantismal chance of making it through a scientific peer review.  Thus it would be wise NOT to try to draw ANY conclusions from this data.   I WOULD encourage anyone who is interested in this subject to contact someone with a doctorate degree (Ed.D/PhD/MD/JD) and go through the arduous task of truly drafting a reaserch experiment for this subject, and to have at it.

Edited by darnoldil, 01 June 2016 - 07:05 PM.


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#228 BrianL99

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 07:28 PM

View Postdarnoldil, on 01 June 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

  I WOULD encourage anyone who is interested in this subject to contact someone with a doctorate degree (Ed.D/PhD/MD/JD) and go through the arduous task of truly drafting a reaserch experiment for this subject, and to have at it.

Does the word "pedantic" mean anything to you?

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#229 Exactice808

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 07:33 PM

View PostBrianL99, on 01 June 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

View Postdarnoldil, on 01 June 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

  I WOULD encourage anyone who is interested in this subject to contact someone with a doctorate degree (Ed.D/PhD/MD/JD) and go through the arduous task of truly drafting a reaserch experiment for this subject, and to have at it.

Does the word "pedantic" mean anything to you?

LOL I saw his post and all I could think was





I think we took that serious to a whole new level LOL
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#230 gopherguts

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 10:20 PM

View PostExactice808, on 01 June 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

View PostBrianL99, on 01 June 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

View Postdarnoldil, on 01 June 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

  I WOULD encourage anyone who is interested in this subject to contact someone with a doctorate degree (Ed.D/PhD/MD/JD) and go through the arduous task of truly drafting a reaserch experiment for this subject, and to have at it.

Does the word "pedantic" mean anything to you?

LOL I saw his post and all I could think was





I think we took that serious to a whole new level LOL

Not even close.

Surely you haven't forgotten all the Black Cat's scribbling/formulas/whatever,,,,,,,,,, :taunt:

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#231 darnoldil

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 10:50 PM

LOL.  LOL, LOL :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:   Actually, I tend to be pretty reserved, but thanks for the Matt Damon reference, because reading through the thread certainly seemed to reveal that the other bloke was in here whacking
anyone who dared to question or found any problems with the work.   :taunt: :taunt:  :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:  
It's all in good fun however.

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#232 uitar9

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 07:56 AM

View Postspinball, on 09 May 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Great post! I'm all over the map on what ball to play. I always go with yellow though. I believe that yellow balls show opponents your "devil may care" attitude. It gets in their head.

Yellow here as well. There is probably a scientific reason for me using them but I couldn't care less what that is. Used, Walmart, whoa-maybe thats the scientific reason
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#233 laxislife9812

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 11:03 AM

Im not good enough yet to sense a difference in golf balls, normally lose 1-2 each round so finding used balls on the course is always welcome. I normally just buy used balls from courses or craigslist. If you ask Bryson Dechambaeau, he personally tests every single ball before he uses them on the course and give the ones that don't preform up to his standard away. That being said, he is using the best and most expensive balls on the market and is still finding production errors or what i would call inconsistency often in a pack. Buying the same Brand/Ball can help you mentally feel comfortable but remember no 2 balls are the same even if advertised by the company. They are all mass produced and most are going to bounce/spin differently depending on production factors.

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#234 chicagolongball

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 09:10 AM

If you are a quality ball striker and decently long off the tee, you will have a lot of short irons and wedges into greens. This is where the ball really matters. A distance ball will release, a ProV1 will spin back hard, and my Bridgestone B330 Tour, TPX, or ProV1x will simply hit and stop nearly on it's divot. When I know, within a couple of yards, where my iron or wedge shot is going to be on the green, I have a lot more legitimate birdie chances. If you are a quality ball striker, the ball matters a lot. If you are a mid handicapper where par is a good score on a hole, not so much.

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#235 Exactice808

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 02:12 PM

View Postdarnoldil, on 01 June 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

LOL.  LOL, LOL :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:   Actually, I tend to be pretty reserved, but thanks for the Matt Damon reference, because reading through the thread certainly seemed to reveal that the other bloke was in here whacking
anyone who dared to question or found any problems with the work.   :taunt: :taunt:  :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:  
It's all in good fun however.

Clubs, balls all that jazz is tough to make a perfect test, so saying his test is flawed is like saying the sky is blue.  We know the honest real answer, its an impossible task, but the fact that OP tried something to validate his opinion is worth more than some people that come in here and just blast away without doing their own test and validate their own opinion.

Personally  I appreciate other peoples opinion because sometimes...you learn something new..... who knew the world was round....for years it was flat....and the universe doesnt revolve around earth? I thought it did.... who would have though we revolve around a sun....

View Postchicagolongball, on 04 June 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

If you are a quality ball striker and decently long off the tee, you will have a lot of short irons and wedges into greens. This is where the ball really matters. A distance ball will release, a ProV1 will spin back hard, and my Bridgestone B330 Tour, TPX, or ProV1x will simply hit and stop nearly on it's divot. When I know, within a couple of yards, where my iron or wedge shot is going to be on the green, I have a lot more legitimate birdie chances. If you are a quality ball striker, the ball matters a lot. If you are a mid handicapper where par is a good score on a hole, not so much.

This is the discussion and opinions are what makes this discussion interesting.


Personally I feel there are factors that require a premium ball.

1) Tour speed Greens
2) Ability to control the spin on demand
3) Funds to afford


If not.... personally the ball doesnt make a difference and here is why I feel so.

1) If the Greens are not at speeds that the ball matters,  a releasing ball is not a disadvantage in comparison to a spinning ball.  What I mean is, if you are used to playing a releasing ball you can judge your shots to take into account the release and shoot just fine.  I personally have seen no gain as I played what I had shooting my lowest score of my golfing career of 76 with a Wilson Elite 50.  This is in no way a ProV1 golf ball.... but I know what it does and I can adjust to make it work in my favor.

2) Ability is even a greater player in this factor, You may be a good ball striker in general,  but touch shots around the green is the biggest hit or miss as there are so many factors that applies spin to the ball and knowing how it will react more so applying the reaction takes a lot of ability.  BUT there is one constant that you can control, if you dont know how or spin the ball correctly the ball will release always, unless you apply spin. So to play a release is much easier.

3) Lastly, Price, some people just dont want to pay $50 for a dozen, I am one of them as I dont see a $35 advantage per dozen to shoot better scores while using a premium ball, when I shoot just as good with a $10/dozen




Couple additional side notes,

Greens in average are 30 yards in circumference,  Pin being in the middle or back has no disadvantage to a spinning ball as even a low spinning ball can be well judged to get it close if you are a good ball striker. The only challenge would be a front pin location were possible you would have only about 5ft from a front location (I have never seen a pin location closer to a fringe closer than 5ft in my experience) 5ft of release is still quite a bit, and even landing the ball short and rolling on the green is not impossible.

The only other disadvantage is short siding yourself,  In a bunker with a tight pin, Water with a tight pin etc.   The real question is if you know the ball is this type of ball,  missing on the wrong side where you leave the ball in a bad position is in no where near the balls fault and a premium ball still doesnt guarantee a better shot.  If you know it releases and there is bunker right, wouldnt it be better to miss on the left side?  That is course management. Not ball management.


So again, my opinion the 2 biggest factors, Tour Green speeds being at 12+ stimp,  and ability..... outside of that many normal courses play at an average 10 stimp, and I know I play between 8-10 stimp, being a decent ball striker, 8-10 stimp is no where as difficult as a 12+ stimp that I have played on also........

Edited by Exactice808, 04 June 2016 - 02:13 PM.

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#236 abel88

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 11:36 PM

View PostExactice808, on 04 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

View Postdarnoldil, on 01 June 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

LOL.  LOL, LOL :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:   Actually, I tend to be pretty reserved, but thanks for the Matt Damon reference, because reading through the thread certainly seemed to reveal that the other bloke was in here whacking
anyone who dared to question or found any problems with the work.   :taunt: :taunt:  :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:  
It's all in good fun however.

Clubs, balls all that jazz is tough to make a perfect test, so saying his test is flawed is like saying the sky is blue.  We know the honest real answer, its an impossible task, but the fact that OP tried something to validate his opinion is worth more than some people that come in here and just blast away without doing their own test and validate their own opinion.

Personally  I appreciate other peoples opinion because sometimes...you learn something new..... who knew the world was round....for years it was flat....and the universe doesnt revolve around earth? I thought it did.... who would have though we revolve around a sun....

View Postchicagolongball, on 04 June 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

If you are a quality ball striker and decently long off the tee, you will have a lot of short irons and wedges into greens. This is where the ball really matters. A distance ball will release, a ProV1 will spin back hard, and my Bridgestone B330 Tour, TPX, or ProV1x will simply hit and stop nearly on it's divot. When I know, within a couple of yards, where my iron or wedge shot is going to be on the green, I have a lot more legitimate birdie chances. If you are a quality ball striker, the ball matters a lot. If you are a mid handicapper where par is a good score on a hole, not so much.

This is the discussion and opinions are what makes this discussion interesting.


Personally I feel there are factors that require a premium ball.

1) Tour speed Greens
2) Ability to control the spin on demand
3) Funds to afford


If not.... personally the ball doesnt make a difference and here is why I feel so.

1) If the Greens are not at speeds that the ball matters,  a releasing ball is not a disadvantage in comparison to a spinning ball.  What I mean is, if you are used to playing a releasing ball you can judge your shots to take into account the release and shoot just fine.  I personally have seen no gain as I played what I had shooting my lowest score of my golfing career of 76 with a Wilson Elite 50.  This is in no way a ProV1 golf ball.... but I know what it does and I can adjust to make it work in my favor.

2) Ability is even a greater player in this factor, You may be a good ball striker in general,  but touch shots around the green is the biggest hit or miss as there are so many factors that applies spin to the ball and knowing how it will react more so applying the reaction takes a lot of ability.  BUT there is one constant that you can control, if you dont know how or spin the ball correctly the ball will release always, unless you apply spin. So to play a release is much easier.

3) Lastly, Price, some people just dont want to pay $50 for a dozen, I am one of them as I dont see a $35 advantage per dozen to shoot better scores while using a premium ball, when I shoot just as good with a $10/dozen




Couple additional side notes,

Greens in average are 30 yards in circumference,  Pin being in the middle or back has no disadvantage to a spinning ball as even a low spinning ball can be well judged to get it close if you are a good ball striker. The only challenge would be a front pin location were possible you would have only about 5ft from a front location (I have never seen a pin location closer to a fringe closer than 5ft in my experience) 5ft of release is still quite a bit, and even landing the ball short and rolling on the green is not impossible.

The only other disadvantage is short siding yourself,  In a bunker with a tight pin, Water with a tight pin etc.   The real question is if you know the ball is this type of ball,  missing on the wrong side where you leave the ball in a bad position is in no where near the balls fault and a premium ball still doesnt guarantee a better shot.  If you know it releases and there is bunker right, wouldnt it be better to miss on the left side?  That is course management. Not ball management.


So again, my opinion the 2 biggest factors, Tour Green speeds being at 12+ stimp,  and ability..... outside of that many normal courses play at an average 10 stimp, and I know I play between 8-10 stimp, being a decent ball striker, 8-10 stimp is no where as difficult as a 12+ stimp that I have played on also........
good points!! played the 50 elite yesterday and shot very well with them. played to the ball strenghs and roll outs only a few times where a premium ball would had been better but not guaranteed it would had performed to my advantage. your post has changed my mind and will continue to use the 50 lol .

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#237 gopherguts

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 11:25 AM

View PostNeed2golfalot, on 21 May 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

I learned how to play using 'found' golf balls from the woods.  Most of them were Top Flights and other cheap balls, so I'm used to the firm feel and extra roll out of a high compression distance ball.  At the same time I can appreciate the extra spin and control of premium urethane balls around the green.

I have a habit of pulling out a scuffed 'woods' ball or 'water' ball on difficult holes (water right and OB left).  If I'm tense and try to steer the ball rather than swing properly, bad results usually follow.  I think I swing better if I'm not worried about losing a new ball.  

Based on some good advice from this Forum I'm going to start playing the same type of ball at least for the whole round, and eventually for consecutive rounds.   Right now I'm playing through some Topflight XL, DT series, Precept Laddie, TM Burner, Nike PD Long, Wilson 50 Elite, Top Flight Gamer/Soft, Bridgestone e-6.  Going to try some Srixon Q-Star, Bridgestone 330-RXS and  Wilson FG tour.

Funny(?) story.

When I was first learning to play, the course I played on had a short par 3 over water as the 3rd hole.

The shot was only a wedge, 9 iron at most. There was a fair bit of ground between the water and the front of the green as well. Today, seeing that situation, I wouldn't even give the water a 2nd glance.

But when I first started playing I'd switch from my new ball to a crappy ball,,,,,,, just in case,,,,, and of course I found the water more often than not.

I don't remember how long it took but at some point along the way I realized that the water had me steering the ball and/or trying too hard to not screw up, that I DID screw up. From that point on I used my same new ball that I started the round with and lo and behold I'd hit an appropriate shot and drowned a ball maybe 1/3 as often as I used to drown the "water ball".

Coincidentally(?), the 18th hole at my home course for 20 years is a Par 5 with an OB fence right and dense trees left. A somewhat daunting tee shot. More times than I can count, trying to "steer" the ball onto the fairway, I'd blow it over the fence or snap hook it into the woods. Andf the drives I DID get in the fairway were typically mishit, at least a bit, so that i couldn't get home in 2 anyway.

FINALLY I told myself that I drive the ball reasonably straight with a normal swing and to just "let it go". Just like the water ball, occasionally I would still blast one over the fence or snap one into the woods but it happened FAR less frequently - and the better, more normal drives allowed me to go for the green  in 2 far more often.

Over the years I've "discovered" that if one thinks positively, that which one wants to accomplish MAY not happen,,,,,,,,,,,, BUTT,,,,,,,,, if one thinks negatively, it is almost certain TO happen. :lol:

Trust is a must ? :dntknw:  :)
I've found that if you think positively, that which you want to accomplish MAY not happen,,,,,,,,,,,, BUTT,,,,,,,,, if you think negatively, it is almost certain TO happen.
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#238 darnoldil

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:45 PM

View PostExactice808, on 04 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

View Postdarnoldil, on 01 June 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

LOL.  LOL, LOL :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:   Actually, I tend to be pretty reserved, but thanks for the Matt Damon reference, because reading through the thread certainly seemed to reveal that the other bloke was in here whacking
anyone who dared to question or found any problems with the work.   :taunt: :taunt:  :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:  
It's all in good fun however.

Clubs, balls all that jazz is tough to make a perfect test, so saying his test is flawed is like saying the sky is blue.  We know the honest real answer, its an impossible task, but the fact that OP tried something to validate his opinion is worth more than some people that come in here and just blast away without doing their own test and validate their own opinion.

Personally  I appreciate other peoples opinion because sometimes...you learn something new..... who knew the world was round....for years it was flat....and the universe doesnt revolve around earth? I thought it did.... who would have though we revolve around a sun....


This is the discussion and opinions are what makes this discussion interesting.

I agree that expressing opinion is a good thing, and I also wrote that the OP's attempted work was a good thing as well.  What I was writing to had nothing to do with anyone's belief about golf balls.   My concern was with the OP's insistence that his experiment was both proof positive of his opinion, and that it was generalizable in it applicability.  When other people spoke of their opinions to the contrary the OP referrenced his experiment's results as proof that contrarian opinions were mute.   Those two points were the only issues that I wrote to.   I also agree with you that research is difficult work.  Furthermore, I agree with you that we may not be able to construct such an encompassing experiment to begin with.  However, what we do seem to be getting here is that some people are more or less affected by differences in balls than others, or they at least reason that this could be the case.

So to the point of a potential experiment:

Potential variables for consideration:
- Spin (Side, Back)
- Feel (Compression, Construction, Materials)
- Condtions (Course/Hole Layout, Fairway/Green Firmness, Penalty Constructs, Distance)
- Player (Shot Shape, Consistency, Typical Miss Shot Shape, Short Game Prowes)

Potential Questions:
A) What effects do side and back spin have on accuracy and distance?
B) What effects can/do conditions have upon the exaggeration of side and back spin?
C) Can combinations of side and back spin and course conditions impair different player's ability to adjust to balls that have more or less types of spin?
D) What constitutes a negative scoring impact?
E) How would standardization with a player's control ball be kept over time for possible scoring deviations between side spin and back spin category balls?
F) Does course familiarity impact a player's ability to adapt to the selected side spin and back spin balls, and if so to what degree does it impact scoring differentials?
G) Is there a difference in score between playing the different spin balls vs the player's standard ball on different holes within the round?
H) Will there be a difference in scoring for each ball when playing multiple balls (with random order) from each category per hole?
I) Are we measuring player adaptive capacity instead of ball differentiation characteristic impact?

Potential Experiment Parameters:
1) Differentiating Player types based upon degree of shot shape.  This would require determining minimum and maximum values of typical deviation from target.
2) Determining ball type categories for minimum and maximum side spin values, and separately, for backspin values (yes balls may blend these two).
3) Creating Course Layout impacts on scoring per shot shape categories (which tracks more heavily penalize slice vs hooks).
4) Categorizing course layout impacts on both distance and green receptivity.
5) Determining environmental categorization constructs for weather, course, and time impacts (these are some of the external validity points that would exist).
6) Determining representative balls for each category of side spin and back spin.
7) Creating Std Deviation reference platforms of each player's standard ball in relationship to the side spin and back spin reference balls.
8) Drafting course rotation schedules (alternate between standard ball round at one course with high side spin ball at another, then the low side spin ball representative at another course, etc, etc, etc, until one round with each ball has been played in a scrambled way).

This above only represents a possible foundation for constructing a more generalizable experiment

Edited by darnoldil, 05 June 2016 - 11:21 PM.


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#239 Need2golfalot

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 07:03 AM

How about a more fun study.... does cold beer help your golf score?  I would say YES. It's an enerygy drink, confidence booster and helps relax and strengthen tight muscles. 💪

There could be a loss of putting ability to someone not accustomed to a large volume of beer but this can be adapted to with practice. ☺



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#240 darnoldil

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 10:27 AM

View PostNeed2golfalot, on 06 June 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

How about a more fun study.... does cold beer help your golf score?  I would say YES. It's an enerygy drink, confidence booster and helps relax and strengthen tight muscles. 💪

There could be a loss of putting ability to someone not accustomed to a large volume of beer but this can be adapted to with practice. ☺

Believe it or not one of the golf magazines did, or presented a study on that. Lol.  If I remember correctly they actually found that one to  two beers was optimal for helping golfer's to play relaxed and better.  So a beer to start and a beer at the turn?   Lol, lol, lol.


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