[richiewrt]

I am not a good golfer by any measure. Never have claimed to be. I went out yesterday afternoon to a local junk course, ($15 to ride 18 and course is in horrible shape). Parking lot is almost empty so I go out as a single, and make it through 12 holes no problem. Then I get behind a foursome, 3 walking 1 riding. These people made me look good they were so bad, but I have no problems with horrible golfers, especially at this course, but these people were taking at least 10 min to tee off on every hole, and at least 25-30 min per hole. I waited behind them for 3 holes, pulling up before they were even close to finishing teeing off, even though I would wait for them to finish the hole before I even tee'd off. I kept waiting to get asked to play through, but nope, they wouldn't even look back at me. I finally just skipped a par 4 that they were on and drove arround them. Was I wrong in doing this? I was so frustrated it completly killed any resemblance of a game I had. Sorry, just had to vent a little. But was I wrong in driving arround them like that? If so, what would you have done?

[bjackson]

To me you seem like a nice guy out there to have some fun. They were a$$holes. You probably went about this better than I would've. I would've hit into, or over them most likely. I hope you reported this to the proshop. Was there a marshal out that you could have had a word with? You went about this great by the way...you have way more patience than me.

[richiewrt]

No marshall, but you can't really expect one at a place that charges $15 for a round.

[wkuo3]

course being vacant like that, it's OK to skip a hole to avoid waiting. These "golfers" did not show any sign to let you play through so, on an almost empty course, skip the hole get ahead of them and then come back to play the hole that was skipped.
No big deal. You're mobil with cart.

[Sean2]

Initially I would get very annoyed. Then, I would realize I'm out on a golf course...better than work! If no one was behind me I'd practice chipping, pitching, putting, or maybe sit down look around and enjoyt the beauty of the course. Or, if there were people behind me I'd wait for them to catch up and play golf with them.

[jessicaalbatross]

a single player has no "rights" on the course but any decent golfers would of let u through - i say u were entitled to do what u did

[jcjr34]

I ran into this situation, except I was part of the 4some ahead of a single.. We all invited him to play thru because we felt we were holding him up, but he elected to just proceed to the next hole ahead of us instead. So, no, there was absolutely no problem in what you did.

[spinningwedge]

Agreed, absolutely no issues with you way you hendled this.

[bloodredsun]

I think you handled this well. I've done similar things when the course has been congested.

I would possibly have even asked if I could play through, either on the hole you are playing or the next one. The rule that states that singles have no rights is a faintly ridiculous one and I don't know of any golfer that would enforce it during a round if a single asked to pass through. The only time I can imagine it being an issue is if there were a load of people playing as singles so that your round would be constantly interrupted - in which case I would ask why they aren't playing together?

[akanacl]

I would ask to play through. Many folks, especially those very new to the game, are innocently ignorant of these simple issues. I would politely ask to play through. 9 out of 10 times they will say "no problem". If not, skip the hole.

ps- i like the poster who suggested practicing and taking your time behind a slow group. Hit your tee shot, and pick it up. Then play 4 balls from the 100 marker.

[atlanta golfer]

Agree with other posts. First option is to ask to play through. Next best option is to skip past them. I wouldn't worry about what you did at all, perfectly acceptable in my view.

I'm surprised the group didn't invite you to play through without being asked. Either they just have no clue because they seldom play, or else they are totally inconsiderate.

It would be different if the course were all backed up and there was no where to go. But that doesn't sound like the case here.

[brettcra]

bloodredsun, on Oct 12 2007, 08:44 AM, said:

I think you handled this well. I've done similar things when the course has been congested.

I would possibly have even asked if I could play through, either on the hole you are playing or the next one. The rule that states that singles have no rights is a faintly ridiculous one and I don't know of any golfer that would enforce it during a round if a single asked to pass through. The only time I can imagine it being an issue is if there were a load of people playing as singles so that your round would be constantly interrupted - in which case I would ask why they aren't playing together?

Where is this "rule" that singles have no rights? This was brought up in another thread and I'm still waiting for someone to show me the rule.

[willamette]

I agree with the "rule" that singles have no rights (and I play as a single about 50% of the time). Letting a single play through is a matter of grace. However, in your situation it seemed obvious that the graceful thing to do was to let you play through. Skipping the hole was the right thing to do.

However, I would look at the 4-some....they've come out to a cow pasture course and suck at golf. It seems clear they don't know the rules about letting others play through, and maybe they went out when they did because they knew the course would be empty. Clearly they are beginniners - just be thankful they had the decency to go to a crappy course at a down time...they could jsut have well been holding up 10 groups on a sunny saturday at a nice course. Getting mad about it and letting it ruin your game is no way to handle the situation. If you have the time, lag back for about 30 minutes just chipping/putting/pitching and enjoying the "free" practice time. If not, just skip over them.

I would NEVER ask to play through. Again, singles have no rights.

[brettcra]

willamette, on Oct 12 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

I agree with the "rule" that singles have no rights (and I play as a single about 50% of the time). Letting a single play through is a matter of grace. However, in your situation it seemed obvious that the graceful thing to do was to let you play through. Skipping the hole was the right thing to do.

However, I would look at the 4-some....they've come out to a cow pasture course and suck at golf. It seems clear they don't know the rules about letting others play through, and maybe they went out when they did because they knew the course would be empty. Clearly they are beginniners - just be thankful they had the decency to go to a crappy course at a down time...they could jsut have well been holding up 10 groups on a sunny saturday at a nice course. Getting mad about it and letting it ruin your game is no way to handle the situation. If you have the time, lag back for about 30 minutes just chipping/putting/pitching and enjoying the "free" practice time. If not, just skip over them.

I would NEVER ask to play through. Again, singles have no rights.

Could you or someone else explain what "rights" a single player forfeits that twosomes, threesomes, and foursomes have? Are you saying a twosome or threesome can come up behind a foursome and say, "We're playing through, it's our right." ?

[spinningwedge]

At some clubs, mine included, the membership documents include language about singles having no "rights". In practice what this means is that during busy times the owner/operator has the right to jam as many people onto the course as possible to maximize revenue- by grouping 1+3s etc.

By necessity I play a lot of solo golf these days (or accompanied by my 5-yr old daughter).

I play at a semi private where I am a member- mostly in the evenings -so I often pull up behind less experienced golfers or folks whose focus (drinking, gambling) is not the same as mine (hitting good golf shots and staying out of my own way). And as stated above, God Bless Em for engaging in their golf-related entertainment activitities at a time when it inconveniences the fewest amount of people.

For the most part these guys are excellent at seeing me coming and giving me a wide berth. I did have a foursome recently who refused to acknowledge me for 5 or so holes, then offered to let me through on the 16th.

No thanks, I answered, I'm working on my patience.

[brettcra]

spinningwedge, on Oct 12 2007, 02:00 PM, said:

At some clubs, mine included, the membership documents include language about singles having no "rights". In practice what this means is that during busy times the owner/operator has the right to jam as many people onto the course as possible to maximize revenue- by grouping 1+3s etc.

By necessity I play a lot of solo golf these days (or accompanied by my 5-yr old daughter).

I play at a semi private where I am a member- mostly in the evenings -so I often pull up behind less experienced golfers or folks whose focus (drinking, gambling) is not the same as mine (hitting good golf shots and staying out of my own way). And as stated above, God Bless Em for engaging in their golf-related entertainment activitities at a time when it inconveniences the fewest amount of people.

For the most part these guys are excellent at seeing me coming and giving me a wide berth. I did have a foursome recently who refused to acknowledge me for 5 or so holes, then offered to let me through on the 16th.

No thanks, I answered, I'm working on my patience.

I still don't understand what "rights" are being forfeited by singles at your club. I'd assume every course tries to match up singles with threesomes, as well as pairs of twosomes. It just makes sense. But if a single is being paired with a threesome, how is that any different than two twosomes being paired up? Why would the single be giving up rights, and not the twosomes?

Unless you are saying that your course will not let a single go out alone if there are larger groups waiting. But that doesn't really apply to what the original poster was asking. In any case, that would be the decision of the course. A previous poster made the sweeping statement that singles have no rights on the course, as if there was a law passed by congress.

[spinningwedge]

OK I think I can shed some light.

The membership docs don't refer to "rights" (which has legal connotations, as you point out). They refer to "standing" ie singles have no "standing on the course".

I recall my club back in the UK where I am originally from said the same thing about singles (and juniors, and ladies, but times have changed).

In practice, I often play alone, the pros know me, the starter knows me, I think I'm the lowest handicapper at the club, and I really don't feel persecuted in any way whatsoever.

[MikeJohnson]

You did what most of us would do. I'll do that in similar situations. I just tend to play worse if I am waiting 10 minutes on each tee box. I think most of us do.

[brettcra]

spinningwedge, on Oct 12 2007, 02:42 PM, said:

OK I think I can shed some light.

The membership docs don't refer to "rights" (which has legal connotations, as you point out). They refer to "standing" ie singles have no "standing on the course".

I recall my club back in the UK where I am originally from said the same thing about singles (and juniors, and ladies, but times have changed).

In practice, I often play alone, the pros know me, the starter knows me, I think I'm the lowest handicapper at the club, and I really don't feel persecuted in any way whatsoever.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I still don't get it. All you did was give it another name. You can call it "rights" or you can call it "standing on the course", but exactly what rights do a twosome have that a single doesn't?

[larrybud]

richiewrt, on Oct 12 2007, 12:39 AM, said:

I am not a good golfer by any measure. Never have claimed to be. I went out yesterday afternoon to a local junk course, ($15 to ride 18 and course is in horrible shape). Parking lot is almost empty so I go out as a single, and make it through 12 holes no problem. Then I get behind a foursome, 3 walking 1 riding. These people made me look good they were so bad, but I have no problems with horrible golfers, especially at this course, but these people were taking at least 10 min to tee off on every hole, and at least 25-30 min per hole. I waited behind them for 3 holes, pulling up before they were even close to finishing teeing off, even though I would wait for them to finish the hole before I even tee'd off. I kept waiting to get asked to play through, but nope, they wouldn't even look back at me. I finally just skipped a par 4 that they were on and drove arround them. Was I wrong in doing this? I was so frustrated it completly killed any resemblance of a game I had. Sorry, just had to vent a little. But was I wrong in driving arround them like that? If so, what would you have done?

Nothing wrong with it as long as there's a slot for you to fit into. If there wasn't you screwed it up for everybody else behind you. But for the info I have, sounds like you did the right thing.

Here's a suggestion: When you drive up to the tee, say "Hello" to them to be SURE they are aware you're there. Breaks the ice, and unless they're completely clueless or aholes, you'll be through in no time.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with asking to play through if you use a nice tone about it. You could even make it sound like you're doing them a favor: "Hey guys, I don't want you to be uncomfortable with me on your tail all day, so if you don't mind, I can play through if that's all right".

[larrybud]

bjackson, on Oct 12 2007, 12:51 AM, said:

To me you seem like a nice guy out there to have some fun. They were a$$holes. You probably went about this better than I would've. I would've hit into, or over them most likely. I hope you reported this to the proshop. Was there a marshal out that you could have had a word with? You went about this great by the way...you have way more patience than me.

If you purposely hit into me or over my head, you better have a good lawyer on retainer.

[spinningwedge]

I think the idea is that groups with "standing" do not have to let groups without "standing" through. Groups with "standing" can reserve tee-times, groups without "standing" cannot.

But in my experience, both at my present and past clubs, is that common sense trumps that. For example, if I'm a scratch single, hopefully hitting the ball pretty infrequently, playing off the back and getting round in 2 hours in a cart, the huge majority of the people I come across at twilight will let me go through with a smile, a wave, and perhaps a comment about the weather.

[larrybud]

brettcra, on Oct 12 2007, 02:58 PM, said:

spinningwedge, on Oct 12 2007, 02:42 PM, said:

OK I think I can shed some light.

The membership docs don't refer to "rights" (which has legal connotations, as you point out). They refer to "standing" ie singles have no "standing on the course".

I recall my club back in the UK where I am originally from said the same thing about singles (and juniors, and ladies, but times have changed).

In practice, I often play alone, the pros know me, the starter knows me, I think I'm the lowest handicapper at the club, and I really don't feel persecuted in any way whatsoever.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I still don't get it. All you did was give it another name. You can call it "rights" or you can call it "standing on the course", but exactly what rights do a twosome have that a single doesn't?

I'm with you, Brett. There's no mention in the USGA manual that says a single has no standing. In fact, it DOES say in the etiquette section that order should be determined by pace of play.

I think people bring this over from a possible rule at a private club or busy weekend morings barring a single tying up a tee time.

See
http://www.usga.org/.../etiquette.html

Now, there is often a mention of it in sanctioned matches, but a casual round of a 4some certainly doesn't apply, IMO.

[spinningwedge]

Certainly the "standing on the course" concept belongs to golf course owners/operators, and not the USGA....and really, the only reason for the concept to exist at all is for golf course owners and operators to maximize their yield.

[brettcra]

spinningwedge, on Oct 12 2007, 03:09 PM, said:

I think the idea is that groups with "standing" do not have to let groups without "standing" through. Groups with "standing" can reserve tee-times, groups without "standing" cannot.

But in my experience, both at my present and past clubs, is that common sense trumps that. For example, if I'm a scratch single, hopefully hitting the ball pretty infrequently, playing off the back and getting round in 2 hours in a cart, the huge majority of the people I come across at twilight will let me go through with a smile, a wave, and perhaps a comment about the weather.

I understand that a course is not likely to book a tee time for a single, that just makes sense. But I don't understand how it applies to letting someone through. Isn't it just up to the group in front to decide to let someone through? I don't think the group in front would say, "We'd let you through if you were a twosome because you have standing. But since you're a single, tough luck". That just defies all logic and common sense.

In the original post, he stated that he played 12 holes before he caught up to the slower group. They didn't let him through so he skipped a hole, and he asked if he did the right thing. One of the responses was simply that single players don't have any "rights" on the course. Rights to do what? If he was in a twosome would he then have had the right to force the group in front to let him play through? I don't think so. So what did that person mean about not having any "rights"? There may be rules regarding singles at certain courses, but I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that, as if all singles on every course are without "rights".

So I guess my question is, if he was a twosome playing behind a slow group, what would his options be since he would now be considered a group with "rights"? What changes now that he's no longer a single?

[willamette]

brettcra, on Oct 12 2007, 02:52 PM, said:

So I guess my question is, if he was a twosome playing behind a slow group, what would his options be since he would now be considered a group with "rights"? What changes now that he's no longer a single?

The "rule" that "singles have no rights" in my opinion goes to preventing singles from ramming themselves through a course at the expense of all other groups out there. OF COURSE a decent single is going to play faster than most groups, even 2-somes. But that doesn't mean a single who tees of at 4-5pm for a quick twilight round should be able to pass up 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc 3- and 4-some groups ahead of them who went out in the middle of the day between 3-4pm. that's not fair to the groups, and inevitably slows up ALL groups.

Now, in the situation that started this post (empty course), even though the single in my opinion did not have rights it would have been common sense decency to let him play through. But he did the right thing in just passing them.

[atlanta golfer]

I play a lot of different courses with a lot of different people. The only thing I have ever heard about singles is that most courses will not allow them to book an advance tee time by themselves. The reason is pretty obvious - courses don't want to tie up all their times without maximizing revenue. Who can blame them.

Almost always, you need two or more players to book an advance tee time. If you are a single and you call to book, they will either tell you to just show up and they will put you with a twosome or threesome, or they will tell you the course is not busy and getting on by yourself is not a problem, or they will place you with an existing two or three player group and give you that advance time to tee off.

Other than that, once you are on the course, all golfers have equal rights. I have never heard anything different, not ever. So I just don't know where the person way above on this thread got that idea. And from reading the other comments on this thread, it seems like most others have the same impression that I do.

[spinningwedge]

Did a quick google of "standing on the course"- this was the first result, from a club in St.Pete FL:

"13. A single player has no standing on the course and shall give way to all players."

This next one is from a course in the UK, Bridlington:

"Single players and games of more than four players have no standing on the course. However, if you are holding up a single player and the course ahead is clear, members are asked to consider either inviting the player to join their game or play through"

[Terrible-Tom]

It's simple if they don't let you play through, skip a hole and get around them. Only problem is you'll probably just run into another group.

[stevepoz]

larrybud, on Oct 12 2007, 02:31 PM, said:

brettcra, on Oct 12 2007, 02:58 PM, said:

spinningwedge, on Oct 12 2007, 02:42 PM, said:

OK I think I can shed some light.

The membership docs don't refer to "rights" (which has legal connotations, as you point out). They refer to "standing" ie singles have no "standing on the course".

I recall my club back in the UK where I am originally from said the same thing about singles (and juniors, and ladies, but times have changed).

In practice, I often play alone, the pros know me, the starter knows me, I think I'm the lowest handicapper at the club, and I really don't feel persecuted in any way whatsoever.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I still don't get it. All you did was give it another name. You can call it "rights" or you can call it "standing on the course", but exactly what rights do a twosome have that a single doesn't?

I'm with you, Brett. There's no mention in the USGA manual that says a single has no standing. In fact, it DOES say in the etiquette section that order should be determined by pace of play.

I think people bring this over from a possible rule at a private club or busy weekend morings barring a single tying up a tee time.

See
http://www.usga.org/.../etiquette.html

Now, there is often a mention of it in sanctioned matches, but a casual round of a 4some certainly doesn't apply, IMO.

Prior to the enaction of the current rule, the USGA had a rule that said a single had no standing on a course relative to a match of 2, 3 or 4 players. I always took the position that a casual round of several guys not following the rules of golf did not constitute a match per the old USGA rules. However, with the new rules on etiquette, the concept of singles having no standing on the course has been abandoned.

[j0npeterson]

This silly crap happens to me all the time. I just play 4 balls off the tee or skip the hole.

[mctim]

It's also based on the pemise that a single cannot be playing a match as he/she has no marker & therefore tough titties.