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Does shortening length affect lie angle?


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#1 SCameron009

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:27 PM

Hey all,

I was just curious, I have cut down my putter a couple times to find the length that I like and I have found that 32.5" was the best length for my set up. My Cameron was originally 34" and was ordered 2 flat (which is what I needed at the time). Now my question was, when I cut down my putter, did that effect the lie angle of the putter, although it is the same 69 with the shaft, is the affective lie different?

Thanks for your help!

- Bryan


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#2 utopiapga

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:32 PM

yes definately it does........

For every inch you take or add it changes it 1 degree. So if you are cutting yours done that much you need to adjust the lie angle accordingly. Your clubs will be much flatter than before, so i suggest you hit them off a lie board again and have them fit for you. Just don't guess by how much you are cutting them down go and take the time to go through the whole process again to make sure you are where you need to be.......

Play well........... :tongue:

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#3 TigerStrong

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:34 PM

For every inch I think its 2*. Plus you lost head weight. You have to counterbalance the head to have the same feel. My putter is 33 inches and I use alot of lead weight behind the head and on the sole of the putter for more feel.
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#4 SCameron009

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 08:10 PM

trotgolfer, on Nov 28 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

For every inch I think its 2*. Plus you lost head weight. You have to counterbalance the head to have the same feel. My putter is 33 inches and I use alot of lead weight behind the head and on the sole of the putter for more feel.

 


I have had it cut down by a professional clubmaker everytime, the only clubwork I do right now is regripping, and adding lead tape. I had it measured out exactly to 1.5" short of standard, and I added lead tape accordingly (I had already had 35 grams of tape on there before I had it cut down). It amazed me how much flatter it seemed once I had it cut down, so I guess my putter is affectively playing 5 flat right now? So the right thing to do would to be, bring it back to my clubmaker, and have him bend it back to the 69 lie angle?

It really doesn't make sense that although you are cutting the putter down, with the shaft still at the same angle with the ground, wouldn't the lie angle be the same?

- Bryan

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#5 lloyd_c

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:08 AM

The lie angle changes because your arms are the same length as they were before the putter length changed.  To keep the effective lie angle the same after shortening the putter, you'd have to have your hands closer to the ground.


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#6 IMAGOLFER

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:28 AM

trotgolfer, on Nov 28 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

For every inch I think its 2*. Plus you lost head weight. You have to counterbalance the head to have the same feel. My putter is 33 inches and I use alot of lead weight behind the head and on the sole of the putter for more feel.

 


Correct. For every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the lie angle by 1.

Also, for every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the swing weight by 3 points.

In relation to the head of the club 1 swing weight = 2 grams.

So, for every 1/2" you shorten a club you will need to add 6 grams of lead tape to the head in order to keep the same swing weight or "feel".

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#7 SCameron009

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 02:46 PM

IMAGOLFER, on Nov 29 2005, 11:28 AM, said:

trotgolfer, on Nov 28 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

For every inch I think its 2*. Plus you lost head weight. You have to counterbalance the head to have the same feel. My putter is 33 inches and I use alot of lead weight behind the head and on the sole of the putter for more feel.

 


Correct. For every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the lie angle by 1.

Also, for every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the swing weight by 3 points.

In relation to the head of the club 1 swing weight = 2 grams.

So, for every 1/2" you shorten a club you will need to add 6 grams of lead tape to the head in order to keep the same swing weight or "feel".

 


Alright thanks for the information. I have all my irons and wedges at 1/4" short, and have brought them back to original swing weight, I never went by Scotty's original weight, because I love a heavier putter, so I have no issues with weight whatsoever.

That is good to know about the Lie Angle, thank you all for your assistance! I will bring my putter into the shop this week to have it bent 3 more upright to keep it at an affective 2 flat lie angle.

Thanks again, Bryan

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#8 CoVertStaff13

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 01:52 PM

The correct calculation is, for every .5" (half inch) change in length the lie angle is effectively changed by .75* (3/4 of a degree).

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#9 KDMullins

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 06:55 PM

 SCameron009, on 28 November 2005 - 08:10 PM, said:

It really doesn't make sense that although you are cutting the putter down, with the shaft still at the same angle with the ground, wouldn't the lie angle be the same?

The lie angle doesn't change; the EFFECTIVE lie angle changes.

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#10 6squared

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:20 PM

 SCameron009, on 29 November 2005 - 02:46 PM, said:

IMAGOLFER, on Nov 29 2005, 11:28 AM, said:

trotgolfer, on Nov 28 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

For every inch I think its 2*. Plus you lost head weight. You have to counterbalance the head to have the same feel. My putter is 33 inches and I use alot of lead weight behind the head and on the sole of the putter for more feel.

 


Correct. For every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the lie angle by 1º.

Also, for every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the swing weight by 3 points.

In relation to the head of the club 1 swing weight = 2 grams.

So, for every 1/2" you shorten a club you will need to add 6 grams of lead tape to the head in order to keep the same swing weight or "feel".

 


There is also an impact on toe hang.  Flatten the lie, decrease the toe hang

Alright thanks for the information. I have all my irons and wedges at 1/4" short, and have brought them back to original swing weight, I never went by Scotty's original weight, because I love a heavier putter, so I have no issues with weight whatsoever.

That is good to know about the Lie Angle, thank you all for your assistance! I will bring my putter into the shop this week to have it bent 3º more upright to keep it at an affective 2º flat lie angle.

Thanks again, Bryan


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#11 6squared

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:22 PM

 6squared, on 21 July 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

 SCameron009, on 29 November 2005 - 02:46 PM, said:

IMAGOLFER, on Nov 29 2005, 11:28 AM, said:

trotgolfer, on Nov 28 2005, 04:34 PM, said:

For every inch I think its 2*. Plus you lost head weight. You have to counterbalance the head to have the same feel. My putter is 33 inches and I use alot of lead weight behind the head and on the sole of the putter for more feel.

 


Correct. For every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the lie angle by 1º.

Also, for every 1/2" you shorten or lengthen a club it will effect the swing weight by 3 points.

In relation to the head of the club 1 swing weight = 2 grams.

So, for every 1/2" you shorten a club you will need to add 6 grams of lead tape to the head in order to keep the same swing weight or "feel".

 




Alright thanks for the information. I have all my irons and wedges at 1/4" short, and have brought them back to original swing weight, I never went by Scotty's original weight, because I love a heavier putter, so I have no issues with weight whatsoever.

That is good to know about the Lie Angle, thank you all for your assistance! I will bring my putter into the shop this week to have it bent 3º more upright to keep it at an affective 2º flat lie angle.

Thanks again, Bryan

There is also an impact on toe hang.  Flatten the lie, decrease the toe hang

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#12 Manz60

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 06:18 PM

I would suggest having length fit to the fundamentals of setup and posture. When length is properly fit, the lie angle is about 72° (+/-1-2°) for the vast majority of golfers, of all statures. Since the loft is only 3-4°, the effect on accuracy is negligible. Even if you insist on a precise lie angle, a putter shaft is difficult to bend accurately and your posture and hand position may vary round to round any way....

Hope this helps
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#13 KaBoom21

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:17 PM

Bumping an old thread - my putter was originally 33" but had an extension added by previous owner, making the putter 34.5" and I love it. What did this change do to the lie angle? Did it make my putter more flat or more upright? I'm so confused.

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#14 TheGeekGolfer

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:45 PM

The lie angle does not change. If the OP had it cut down because that is where he likes it. Then that is where his hands are and that is how far bent over he is. Therefore, the lie angle is THE SAME.

This is especially true for putters since people can putt equally well from many postures.

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#15 Jagpilotohio

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:11 AM

ANY golf club, from putter to driver, effectively PLAYS more upright if it is lengthened and it PLAYS flatter if it is shortened. This is making an assumption that your posture and hand position remains identical with either length club.  

If your posture and hand position stays the same, the head on the longer club must migrate farther away from you at address, making it EFFECTIVELY more upright (toe rises). Conversely, The head on the shorter shafted club migrates closer to you,  EFFECTIVELY becoming flatter (toe drops).

The ACTUAL measured  lie angle on a loft and lie machine does not change unless the hosel is bent,  or on woods and hybrids, the adapter setting is changed.

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#16 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 12:57 PM

Proper putter fitting requires the following steps:

1. The golfer should assume their normal putting stance.
2. They then take the ungripped putter shaft in their hands and place the putter head in the address position while holding the shaft very loosely.
3. The fitter then needs to make sure the putter is centered directly below their eyes and is soled flat on the ground.
4. As the fitter is doing this, the golfer stays in their stance and allows the shaft to move in their hands as the fitter positions the putter head.
5. Now, the fitter marks the shaft at the position slightly above the heel pad of the golfers upper hand. IF the golfer wants to hold the putter grip near the end, this is the ideal shaft length for their body and stance and the shaft should be cut there. IF the golfer likes to have some of the grip extending above the top hand, add that amount above the line and cut there.
6. Lastly, when the grip is installed on the shaft, it should be positioned so that NO MANIPULATION OF THE HANDS is needed to square the clubface. This is a commonly overlooked parameter that is extremely important. My grips are installed with the flat side 5* open because that is the natural placement of my thumb when taking my stance. I can close my eyes, place my putter down and it is square.

One should not worry about the swing weight of a putter. Proper head weight is the main thing that will allow the golfer to be successful with the club. Some like 300 gm heads and some like 500 gm heads. It's very personal and has to be chosen by the player.

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#17 A.Princey

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 12:01 AM

Depends, is your setup the same as before? Are you bent more down to accommodate the shorter putter, or do you straighten your arms more now to reach?

If your setup is the same as you transition to a shorter putter, then it will be more flat and need to be bent upright. If many things change like stance, back bend, arm hang, foot-to-ball distance etc, then the lie could be unaffected.

Just take a phone, set it for video and do a floor evaluation of your stroke. Hit a ball while filming the putter head from the back, and look at the dynamic angle as you putt. Adjust lie from there as needed.

I also prefer an exactly 32.5" putter!!!
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#18 Swoosh-Thud

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 04:26 PM

 TheGeekGolfer, on 28 November 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

The lie angle does not change. If the OP had it cut down because that is where he likes it. Then that is where his hands are and that is how far bent over he is. Therefore, the lie angle is THE SAME.

This is especially true for putters since people can putt equally well from many postures.

I agree wholeheartedly. You cut down your putter because that is what makes you comfortable.

When you "self fit" yourself, you choke down to mark where you're gonna cut it.

Edited by Swoosh-Thud, 01 December 2017 - 04:28 PM.

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