Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

Wishon Wedges


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Ranchobob

Ranchobob

    Seventeen plane swing

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 619 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 293617
  • Joined: 01/26/2014
  • Location:SoCal
  • Handicap:12
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 05 April 2015 - 11:10 AM

Can someone please explain the difference between Tom Wishon's PCF Micro Tour and Micro Groove HM wedges and weigh them against, say, Cleveland's 588 line of wedges and my current oil can Vokey wedges?

FWIW, my current wedges are (loft/bounce) 52/8, 56/10, 60/4.

Thank you!


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#2 MarvinTheMartian

MarvinTheMartian

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 316907
  • Joined: 05/25/2014
  • Location:US southwest
GolfWRX Likes : 43

Posted 05 April 2015 - 06:20 PM

To me, the Wishons have more offset than OEM wedges.

2

#3 TKS

TKS

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 188262
  • Joined: 06/23/2012
  • Location:Wasatch Front, UT
  • Handicap:7
GolfWRX Likes : 50

Posted 05 April 2015 - 10:16 PM

The pcfs are a touch smaller and more round than the 588, and provide more spin imo.
The hm series are even more rounded on the toe, to my eye more offset than the pcf.
Both play everybit as good as any wedge.
All Wishon, all the time:
919THI 11* Black Driver, Red Shaft - S
919F/D, Black Shaft
775 18* hyb, Interflexx Shaft
590 4iron, Black hybd Shaft
5-SW Sterlings S300's
PCF Micro 58*
S2R #5 putter Double Bend Shaft
Softer Urethane balls - too many to list

3

#4 TomWishon

TomWishon

    Major Winner

  • Sponsors
  • 3,664 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 45409
  • Joined: 01/08/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 4257

Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:23 PM

View PostRanchobob, on 05 April 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Can someone please explain the difference between Tom Wishon's PCF Micro Tour and Micro Groove HM wedges and weigh them against, say, Cleveland's 588 line of wedges and my current oil can Vokey wedges?

FWIW, my current wedges are (loft/bounce) 52/8, 56/10, 60/4.

Thank you!

No one will answer this as well as I can, so here goes.  

PCF is designed with more of a rounder face profile, while the HM is designed with what the industry likes to call more of a "teardrop" profile.  What that means is that the height of the heel side of the face is a little taller on the PCF than on the HM, so the shape of the top of the face profile is more rounded on the PCF but then a little less rounded and steeper as it descends to the shorter heel height on the HM.   Wedges like the Vokey or Cleveland are considered to be more of a tear drop profile than rounded profile, for a reference point for you.

All my wedges are designed with 2mm offset, which is what the industry considers to be a visual non offset design.   To most golfers when you get the offset to be less than 2mm, the leading edge starts to look like it is slightly out in front of the hosel.  This just happens because of an optical illusion created by both eyes focused on the head.  

The Micro Grooves are a scoreline design I developed some years ago to try to create a line design that could be conforming to the rules but still be able to put more lines in contact with the surface of the ball at impact.   Conventional lines as made by the other companies are most typically manufactured to be 0.8mm wide (0.0315") X either 2.6mm ot 2.8mm spacing apart from edge to edge.   I quote metric because the head making factories tend to tool in metric than in imperial.  

The Micro Grooves are 0.6mm wide X 2.3mm spacing.  So that means at impact there are 5 Micro Grooves in contact with the surface of the ball while with the conventional line design, there are 3 lines in contact with the ball.   You can test this yourself using impact labels.  So if you believe that the top edges of the scorelines bring about some of the backspin in a shot, then you have a tiny chance for a little more spin with 2 more lines in contact with the ball's surface at impact.

However, the vast majority of spin does come from the roughness of the flat areas between the lines.   So on the PCF's we do a conventional circular milling pattern.   And on the HM's we use a laser etch cut horizontal "milling".  

With the new HM's that just came out, the sole design is quite different with a zero bounce heel and increased bounce on the very front center of the leading edge.   PCF sole design has a zero bounce heel but the rest of the sole is a conventional single bounce grind design.

And that's about it in a nutshell, so I hope this helps,

TOM

4

#5 Ranchobob

Ranchobob

    Seventeen plane swing

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 619 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 293617
  • Joined: 01/26/2014
  • Location:SoCal
  • Handicap:12
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 06 April 2015 - 10:37 PM

Tom, thank you for taking the time to explain it.

Can you clarify the bounce on your wedges for me?  I noticed you don't have any specs cited.  

Thanks again!


5

#6 TomWishon

TomWishon

    Major Winner

  • Sponsors
  • 3,664 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 45409
  • Joined: 01/08/2008
GolfWRX Likes : 4257

Posted 07 April 2015 - 02:53 PM

View PostRanchobob, on 06 April 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

Tom, thank you for taking the time to explain it.

Can you clarify the bounce on your wedges for me?  I noticed you don't have any specs cited.  

Thanks again!

The specs for the sole angle of our wedges are on the specs sheet for each wedge model on our website in the green and white charts.   Perhaps you were looking for the term BOUNCE and did not realize that SOLE ANGLE is the actual name of the spec for the angle of the sole for which bounce is a condition of the sole angle.   Lots of golfers today are not aware of this and think the actual name of the spec is bounce.  

At any rate, we now do a zero bounce heel sole angle for both the HM and PCF wedge families to enable the golfer to roll the face open and not have the leading edge rise up off the ground to potentially lead to more chance of bladed shots when you want to hit that open face finesse cut shot off closely mown grass.   This zero bounce heel grind extends @ 20-25mm in from the heel after which the primary bounce on the sole angle is there.  

PCF 52 is 5* bounce for the primary sole angle, the 56 is 12*, the 60* is 8*.   HM Series 52 is 6* bounce, the 56 is 12* and the 60 is 10*.

6

#7 Ranchobob

Ranchobob

    Seventeen plane swing

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 619 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 293617
  • Joined: 01/26/2014
  • Location:SoCal
  • Handicap:12
GolfWRX Likes : 264

Posted 08 April 2015 - 06:21 AM

Awesome, Tom.  Thank you so much!

(And you're right, I didn't know sole angle = bounce.)

7

#8 js2019

js2019

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 519912
  • Joined: 01/10/2019
GolfWRX Likes : 1

Posted 10 January 2019 - 10:05 AM

View PostTomWishon, on 07 April 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

View PostRanchobob, on 06 April 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

Tom, thank you for taking the time to explain it.

Can you clarify the bounce on your wedges for me?  I noticed you don't have any specs cited.  

Thanks again!

The specs for the sole angle of our wedges are on the specs sheet for each wedge model on our website in the green and white charts.   Perhaps you were looking for the term BOUNCE and did not realize that SOLE ANGLE is the actual name of the spec for the angle of the sole for which bounce is a condition of the sole angle.   Lots of golfers today are not aware of this and think the actual name of the spec is bounce.  

At any rate, we now do a zero bounce heel sole angle for both the HM and PCF wedge families to enable the golfer to roll the face open and not have the leading edge rise up off the ground to potentially lead to more chance of bladed shots when you want to hit that open face finesse cut shot off closely mown grass.   This zero bounce heel grind extends @ 20-25mm in from the heel after which the primary bounce on the sole angle is there.  

PCF 52 is 5* bounce for the primary sole angle, the 56 is 12*, the 60* is 8*.   HM Series 52 is 6* bounce, the 56 is 12* and the 60 is 10*.

I know this topic has been dead for a while but I am just wondering if anyone has seen any sizeable diminishing of the groves/ score lines on the pcf wedges. I have had a set for three/four seasons and other than a slight discoloration on the sole there are no signs of wear at all. I truly think they spin as well as the day I got them.

I just went through a club fitting at CC and they didn't even want to touch my wedges because they were performing great.
Driver: Taylormade M3 9.5 (set to 7.5)- Mitsubishi C6 blue 50 Stiff
3 Wood: Cobra F6 (Set to 13.5*)
2 Hybrid:  Tour Edge CBX 18*- Mitsubishi C6 Hybrid 80 stiff
Irons:    Mizuno JPX 919 Forged 4-PW Project X LZ 5.5
Wedges: Tom Wishon PCF micro tour c 52, 56, 60
Putter: Ping Sigma 2 Arna Stealth
Grips- Winn DRI-TAC Lite Midsize

8

#9 geochitown

geochitown

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,456 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 62355
  • Joined: 08/05/2008
  • Location:Libertyville, IL
  • Handicap:14
GolfWRX Likes : 324

Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:49 PM

Nice feedback, thanks.
Lead Tape lovingly applied - Driver through GW
TEE XCG7 Beta +1* to 11.5* - TP6HD Firm tipped xx" - 44.25" (CANNON!)
TEE XCG7 Beta 5W 18* - Matrix 8M2 stiff tipped 1.625" at 41.75"
TEE XCG7 Beta 22*H - Diamana Thump T93 Stiff untipped at 38.75"
TEE XCG7 Beta 25*H - Diamana Thump i465ct 4i shaft stiff 38.25"
Maxfli Revolution Black 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43,48) at -1/2" length DGS300U
Vokey SM4 52-08F
Cleveland TA588 57-10 (bent to 56*)
Vokey SM5 60-07S
Coutour Dornoch Putter 33" - 365g Head - SS Flatso 2.0

9

#10 Thayneil

Thayneil

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 506 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 441480
  • Joined: 09/25/2016
  • Location:bangkok
  • Handicap:11
GolfWRX Likes : 83

Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:15 AM

View Postjs2019, on 10 January 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

View PostTomWishon, on 07 April 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

View PostRanchobob, on 06 April 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

Tom, thank you for taking the time to explain it.

Can you clarify the bounce on your wedges for me?  I noticed you don't have any specs cited.  

Thanks again!

The specs for the sole angle of our wedges are on the specs sheet for each wedge model on our website in the green and white charts.   Perhaps you were looking for the term BOUNCE and did not realize that SOLE ANGLE is the actual name of the spec for the angle of the sole for which bounce is a condition of the sole angle.   Lots of golfers today are not aware of this and think the actual name of the spec is bounce.  

At any rate, we now do a zero bounce heel sole angle for both the HM and PCF wedge families to enable the golfer to roll the face open and not have the leading edge rise up off the ground to potentially lead to more chance of bladed shots when you want to hit that open face finesse cut shot off closely mown grass.   This zero bounce heel grind extends @ 20-25mm in from the heel after which the primary bounce on the sole angle is there.  

PCF 52 is 5* bounce for the primary sole angle, the 56 is 12*, the 60* is 8*.   HM Series 52 is 6* bounce, the 56 is 12* and the 60 is 10*.

I know this topic has been dead for a while but I am just wondering if anyone has seen any sizeable diminishing of the groves/ score lines on the pcf wedges. I have had a set for three/four seasons and other than a slight discoloration on the sole there are no signs of wear at all. I truly think they spin as well as the day I got them.

I just went through a club fitting at CC and they didn't even want to touch my wedges because they were performing great.

Its good that CC didnt trash  Wishon wedges as 'components" perhaps they knew better

I have  2 sets of PCF wedges and they are great.lots of spin

I  bent my 60 to  58  to make it more versatile (for me)


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#11 TKS

TKS

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 170 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 188262
  • Joined: 06/23/2012
  • Location:Wasatch Front, UT
  • Handicap:7
GolfWRX Likes : 50

Posted 11 January 2019 - 04:37 PM

Just looked at my PCF 56 (bent to 58*) and do concur, little to no wear on the face - spinny zippy.
All Wishon, all the time:
919THI 11* Black Driver, Red Shaft - S
919F/D, Black Shaft
775 18* hyb, Interflexx Shaft
590 4iron, Black hybd Shaft
5-SW Sterlings S300's
PCF Micro 58*
S2R #5 putter Double Bend Shaft
Softer Urethane balls - too many to list

11



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors