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How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to post on this site. Thanks Tom Wishon


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#421 Texsport

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:15 PM

Mizuno GT180 face info-

* Uses hot forged SP700 titanium - higher COR than titanium used in retail clubs - previously used mostly in Tour Issued drivers because of expense.

* Faces also have more toe and heel bulge - similar to TM Twist Face technology without marketing fanfare.

https://mygolfspy.co...fairway-woods/\

Mizuno seems to have applied maximum technology - more than other companies -  in an effort to capture a share of the driver market.

Texsport

Edited by Texsport, 21 May 2018 - 07:38 PM.

Mizuno GT180 10.5*/Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 5 X
Tour Edge Exotics CB F2 PRO 15.5* Limited/Speeder 757 EVO 7.1X (Gene Sauers club)
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#422 Go_Time

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:22 PM

 00ogopogo, on 27 February 2018 - 03:19 PM, said:

 Stuart G., on 18 October 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

 Londoner, on 18 October 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Were not talking putting though. I find it hard to believe they are any better off just trusting the clubs lie for squareness. Theyve still got to aim it. Maybe im missing something.

We are talking about the ability of the player to point the club face in a particular direction and know what direction it's really pointing.

But the key isn't really where it's pointing at set-up.   It only matters where it's pointing at impact and the two are rarely the same.  The only thing that's important is how consistent they are at where it might point at setup.   And there is very little to indicate one method is any more or less consistent then any other.

Posted Image

This is supposed to represent impact or address?

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#423 Texsport

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:33 PM

Nicklaus stated that he didn't know of a single great player who didn't address the ball with an open face.

Whether the photo represents address or impact is unknown. If a player returns the face to the ball perfectly with a square swing path, then square at impact works.

However, almost all good players approach impact from the inside, putting hook spin on the ball. To counteract this, the clubface must be open at impact to counteract the hook spin.

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Tour Edge Exotics CB F2 PRO 15.5* Limited/Speeder 757 EVO 7.1X (Gene Sauers club)
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#424 Go_Time

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:07 PM

 Texsport, on 21 May 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

Nicklaus stated that he didn't know of a single great player who didn't address the ball with an open face.

Whether the photo represents address or impact is unknown. If a player returns the face to the ball perfectly with a square swing path, then square at impact works.

However, almost all good players approach impact from the inside, putting hook spin on the ball. To counteract this, the clubface must be open at impact to counteract the hook spin.

Texsport

And thus most also address the ball with an open stance when using irons, no? The longer the iron, the more open the stance?

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#425 Texsport

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:43 PM

Depends on shot shape and full or partial shot.

Texsport

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Titleist 913 Hybrid 21*/Tour Blue 105X (Matt Jones' club) (OR) TM Burner 4-iron/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
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#426 Stuart G.

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 03:01 AM

 Texsport, on 21 May 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

However, almost all good players approach impact from the inside, putting hook spin on the ball.

No.  A large number of very good players play a fade - and not an in-to-out fade either.

Now some of them do because they had hook issues in their past.


 Go_Time, on 21 May 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

And thus most also address the ball with an open stance when using irons, no? The longer the iron, the more open the stance?

No.  Some maybe, but not most.  And of those that do, many shouldn't.

Edited by Stuart G., 22 May 2018 - 03:03 AM.


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#427 Texsport

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:37 AM

Stuart G.

Wanna bet?

The idea that there are more good players using an over-the-top, out-to-in swing path, than an in-to-out swing path is beyond ridiculous!

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Mizuno GT180 10.5*/Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 5 X
Tour Edge Exotics CB F2 PRO 15.5* Limited/Speeder 757 EVO 7.1X (Gene Sauers club)
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MacGregor PRO M 7-PM/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
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#428 Golfrnut

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 09:42 AM

 Texsport, on 22 May 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Stuart G.

Wanna bet?

The idea that there are more good players using an over-the-top, out-to-in swing path, than an in-to-out swing path is beyond ridiculous!

Texsport


The idea that you have to be over the top to be out to in is why you are behind the 8-ball before you even start.  Not much sense in arguing something you do not understand correctly.
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#429 Go_Time

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 10:04 AM

So how do you hit a straight ball with a square stance, square face, and in-to-out path?

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#430 Texsport

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 12:05 PM

You don't - you hit a draw.

If you want to hit it straight with that setup and swing path, you must open the face.

See Ben Hogan - gripped the club in an open position and swing inside out. Classic!

Texsport

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Titleist 913 Hybrid 21*/Tour Blue 105X (Matt Jones' club) (OR) TM Burner 4-iron/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
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MacGregor PRO M 7-PM/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
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#431 Stuart G.

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 12:27 PM

View PostTexsport, on 22 May 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Stuart G.

Wanna bet?

The idea that there are more good players using an over-the-top, out-to-in swing path, than an in-to-out swing path is beyond ridiculous!

Sure - especially since I didn't say "most".   I said your statement that ALL good players was not correct. Lots of high level and extremely good players play (or played for those no longer active) an out to in fade with their drivers (although I'd only need to come up with one to win the bet :-)   And the percentage is growing now that the old myth about a draw going further then a fade has been completely debunked.


View PostGo_Time, on 22 May 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

So how do you hit a straight ball with a square stance, square face, and in-to-out path?

No one said or even implied that you could.

Edited by Stuart G., 22 May 2018 - 12:27 PM.


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#432 Golfrnut

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

View PostGo_Time, on 22 May 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

So how do you hit a straight ball with a square stance, square face, and in-to-out path?

You have everything timed perfectly and have a matching face/path.  Even if everything is perfect, impact would have to be perfect, no change through face/path through the time of impact, etc.  Granted, that's talking a perfect spin axis that is pure vertical.  What we still perceive to be a straight shot doesn't have to be to that level.

Stance has nothing to do with it.  Open stance does not mean out to in and closed does not mean in to out...square is not an indicator of either.  Swing paths can be completely different at impact by two people with comepletely different swing directions and swing planes.  And even still, paths can/will be different depending on at which point in the swing arc ball contact is made.
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#433 TKS

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:18 PM

View PostTexsport, on 21 May 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

Mizuno GT180 face info-

* Uses hot forged SP700 titanium - higher COR than titanium used in retail clubs - previously used mostly in Tour Issued drivers because of expense.

* Faces also have more toe and heel bulge - similar to TM Twist Face technology without marketing fanfare.

https://mygolfspy.co...fairway-woods/\

Mizuno seems to have applied maximum technology - more than other companies -  in an effort to capture a share of the driver market.

Texsport
Ooh I don't think so. COR / CT is independent of the type of TI being used. Don't mistakenly get caught up in all that. 6/4 TI can hit the COR numbers, as can 15-5-5,  SP700 etc etc etc cast or forged, cup face or plate. Designers and Mfg have been hitting the COR numbers for years now. Here is the deal, if the head has loft and face angle that gives you the flight your swing angles of attack like - great!  In addition to the head, the shaft properties come in to complete the well-suited driver. Don't get too distracted by the moving weights unless you use them to find the swing weight and maybe some sound/auditory change you like. Nevertheless, enjoy the club!
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#434 Texsport

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 06:56 PM

Ahhhh Stewart G.

Please read my statement again.

I said almost all good players have in to out swings. I'm correct - you are not.

Nobody of note swings out to in - they may aim and swing to the left of the target with an open face to hit a fade, but nobody of note swings left of their aim line and is any good.

Of course fades carry further than draws, but the total distance is with the draw unless the landing zone is wet.

If you want to trade insults - have at it - I'm not wasting my time on incorrect swing concepts.

Texsport

Edited by Texsport, 22 May 2018 - 07:00 PM.

Mizuno GT180 10.5*/Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 5 X
Tour Edge Exotics CB F2 PRO 15.5* Limited/Speeder 757 EVO 7.1X (Gene Sauers club)
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MacGregor PRO M 7-PM/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
Edel 50*/KBS 610 S
Scratch JMO Grind Don White 56*/DG X-100
Cobra Trusty Rusty Tour  64*/DG S-200
The Cure CX2 putter

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#435 Texsport

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:27 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 22 May 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View PostTexsport, on 22 May 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Stuart G.

Wanna bet?

The idea that there are more good players using an over-the-top, out-to-in swing path, than an in-to-out swing path is beyond ridiculous!

Texsport


The idea that you have to be over the top to be out to in is why you are behind the 8-ball before you even start.  Not much sense in arguing something you do not understand correctly.

Apparently you have no basic understanding of anatomy or Physics!

Texsport

Mizuno GT180 10.5*/Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 5 X
Tour Edge Exotics CB F2 PRO 15.5* Limited/Speeder 757 EVO 7.1X (Gene Sauers club)
Titleist 915 18*/Fubuki K 80X
Titleist 913 Hybrid 21*/Tour Blue 105X (Matt Jones' club) (OR) TM Burner 4-iron/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
Wilson Staff V4 5 and 6/Aerotech Fibersteel 110 S
MacGregor PRO M 7-PM/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
Edel 50*/KBS 610 S
Scratch JMO Grind Don White 56*/DG X-100
Cobra Trusty Rusty Tour  64*/DG S-200
The Cure CX2 putter

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#436 Texsport

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:28 PM

View PostTKS, on 22 May 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

View PostTexsport, on 21 May 2018 - 07:15 PM, said:

Mizuno GT180 face info-

* Uses hot forged SP700 titanium - higher COR than titanium used in retail clubs - previously used mostly in Tour Issued drivers because of expense.

* Faces also have more toe and heel bulge - similar to TM Twist Face technology without marketing fanfare.

https://mygolfspy.co...fairway-woods/\

Mizuno seems to have applied maximum technology - more than other companies -  in an effort to capture a share of the driver market.

Texsport
Ooh I don't think so. COR / CT is independent of the type of TI being used. Don't mistakenly get caught up in all that. 6/4 TI can hit the COR numbers, as can 15-5-5,  SP700 etc etc etc cast or forged, cup face or plate. Designers and Mfg have been hitting the COR numbers for years now. Here is the deal, if the head has loft and face angle that gives you the flight your swing angles of attack like - great!  In addition to the head, the shaft properties come in to complete the well-suited driver. Don't get too distracted by the moving weights unless you use them to find the swing weight and maybe some sound/auditory change you like. Nevertheless, enjoy the club!

I guess I'll just go with TollBros statement that the GT180 had ball speeds equal to the highest in his tests + my personal experience.

Thanks

Texsport
Mizuno GT180 10.5*/Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 5 X
Tour Edge Exotics CB F2 PRO 15.5* Limited/Speeder 757 EVO 7.1X (Gene Sauers club)
Titleist 915 18*/Fubuki K 80X
Titleist 913 Hybrid 21*/Tour Blue 105X (Matt Jones' club) (OR) TM Burner 4-iron/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
Wilson Staff V4 5 and 6/Aerotech Fibersteel 110 S
MacGregor PRO M 7-PM/Aldila RIP 115 Tour S
Edel 50*/KBS 610 S
Scratch JMO Grind Don White 56*/DG X-100
Cobra Trusty Rusty Tour  64*/DG S-200
The Cure CX2 putter

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#437 Golfrnut

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:33 PM

View PostTexsport, on 22 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 22 May 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

View PostTexsport, on 22 May 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Stuart G.

Wanna bet?

The idea that there are more good players using an over-the-top, out-to-in swing path, than an in-to-out swing path is beyond ridiculous!

Texsport


The idea that you have to be over the top to be out to in is why you are behind the 8-ball before you even start.  Not much sense in arguing something you do not understand correctly.

Apparently you have no basic understanding of anatomy or Physics!

Texsport

I guarantee I would have no trouble talking circles around you on the subject, but you keep living in dreamland.

This is the reasn why most people donít need to be around a launch monitor without parental guidance, because they have no idea what the numbers or terms mean.
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#438 Stuart G.

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 04:29 AM

View PostTexsport, on 22 May 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

Ahhhh Stewart G.

Please read my statement again.

I said almost all good players have in to out swings. I'm correct - you are not.

Nobody of note swings out to in - they may aim and swing to the left of the target with an open face to hit a fade, but nobody of note swings left of their aim line and is any good.

Of course fades carry further than draws, but the total distance is with the draw unless the landing zone is wet.

If you want to trade insults - have at it - I'm not wasting my time on incorrect swing concepts.

Texsport

All vs almost all, still wrong.  

http://www.golfwrx.c...ting-out-to-in/

And distance will be the same as long as the equipment is fit for the players preferred shot shape.  And yes, many tour level players (of today and in the past) swing out to in to get a fade.

And I never insulted you. And it's clear spending more time addressing that or the new misconceptions you added in that last post is going to be a waste of time - at least that's one thing we agree on.

Edited by Stuart G., 23 May 2018 - 06:23 AM.


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#439 strug'-a-ling

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:15 PM

If you need a little extra loft, flat lie, and open face at the same time, you've pretty much down to Wishon or Henry-Griffitts.

The majors don't seem to realize that flexibility in those specs is more important than the weighting they're trying to achieve with  short, hard hosels..

At least it is to me.

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#440 Howard Jones

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 04:14 AM

View PostTexsport, on 22 May 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

Ahhhh Stewart G.

Please read my statement again.

I said almost all good players have in to out swings. I'm correct - you are not.

Nobody of note swings out to in - they may aim and swing to the left of the target with an open face to hit a fade, but nobody of note swings left of their aim line and is any good.

Of course fades carry further than draws, but the total distance is with the draw unless the landing zone is wet.

If you want to trade insults - have at it - I'm not wasting my time on incorrect swing concepts.

Texsport

Ive been doing high end fitting of European PGA and LPGA players for some years, and i cant recall any of them playing a draw. All of them played a fade with a out to in club path on both driver, woods and irons.

Even down at amateur elite level, fade is the prefered ball flight, its considered to be easier to control (harder to make a slice going for a fade than it is to hook it when you go for a draw)

Most common ball flight on the PGA tour is a fade, and that means the majority of "better players" swing out to in, or oposit of what we do to make a draw, to keep the left side under control.

Its for the same reason low launch profiles is the most common. A low launch profile is considered to be anti left


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#441 jimg22

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:52 AM

Great Info....... having information is always fantastic.
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#442 nmpete11

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 03:52 PM

Finally a clear explanation for how this works.
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#443 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 07:14 AM

It seems that Texsport is talking Path to body alignment (based on his anatomy comment) and Stuart and Golfrnut are talking Path to target line. I may be mistaken, but it DOES seem that way. If so, everyone needs to get on the same page. In to out path, related to body alignment, can still give out to in path related to target line. Thank Trackman lingo for that area of confusion.

BT

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#444 Golfrnut

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 08:15 AM

View PostRi_Redneck, on 04 September 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

It seems that Texsport is talking Path to body alignment (based on his anatomy comment) and Stuart and Golfrnut are talking Path to target line. I may be mistaken, but it DOES seem that way. If so, everyone needs to get on the same page. In to out path, related to body alignment, can still give out to in path related to target line. Thank Trackman lingo for that area of confusion.

BT

He has/had swing path and swing direction terminology incorrect.  +- on path says nothing about being outside or inside of swing direction.  It's what happens when people only understand half of what's going on and are insistent on arguing about it.
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