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How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to post on this site. Thanks Tom Wishon


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#391 Londoner

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 08:53 AM

View PostStuart G., on 18 October 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

View PostLondoner, on 17 October 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Really? People cant see if a 460 driver face is square? What do they do with a wedge?

Forget the wedges, numerous studies have shown that most average golfers can't really see if their putter is square and pointed in the right direction.
Were not talking putting though. I find it hard to believe they are any better off just trusting the clubs lie for squareness. Theyve still got to aim it. Maybe im missing something.

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#392 Stuart G.

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:16 AM

View PostLondoner, on 18 October 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Were not talking putting though. I find it hard to believe they are any better off just trusting the clubs lie for squareness. Theyve still got to aim it. Maybe im missing something.

We are talking about the ability of the player to point the club face in a particular direction and know what direction it's really pointing.

But the key isn't really where it's pointing at set-up.   It only matters where it's pointing at impact and the two are rarely the same.  The only thing that's important is how consistent they are at where it might point at setup.   And there is very little to indicate one method is any more or less consistent then any other.

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#393 dxdgenert

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 11:16 AM

As always, thanks, Tom. I hadn't watched this because I was playing a non-adjustable driver when you created it. Now that I picked an adjustable model up, I'm glad I gave it a view.
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#394 surffshr

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 07:56 PM

when I adjust the loft angle the lettering on the club moves.  I then Have the club regripped with lettering centered to a square club face.  dosen't this resolve the square face issue?   On regular shots don'rt we square the face to the target line anyway?

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#395 Londoner

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 02:51 PM

View Postsurffshr, on 16 November 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

when I adjust the loft angle the lettering on the club moves.  I then Have the club regripped with lettering centered to a square club face.  dosen't this resolve the square face issue?   On regular shots don'rt we square the face to the target line anyway?
Thats my thoughts as well.

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#396 Supremexx

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 10:41 AM

great info

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#397 Golfrnut

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:18 AM

View PostSupremexx, on 28 November 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

great info

So what you are basically saying is...

You have been registered on here for 6 years and are just now choosing to SPAM the forums to get your post count up, can only image for BST rights correct?

Hint:  the 12 posts in 10 minutes is a bit of a giveaway.  Edit:  Nevermind, looks like you are shooting for the stars on this one.

Edited by Golfrnut, 28 November 2017 - 11:20 AM.

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#398 Stuart G.

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:29 AM

View PostGolfrnut, on 28 November 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:


Hint:  the 12 posts in 10 minutes is a bit of a giveaway.  Edit:  Nevermind, looks like you are shooting for the stars on this one.

Actually it's 42 posts in ~30 minutes.

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#399 thepinkbomber

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 09:27 AM

Curious if this is true with the 2017 EPIC adjustable hosel.  I have a 9 degree.  When I set the lie adjustment to neutral and adjust the loft from 8, 9, 10, and 11 the face angle does not change when I sole the club.  4 degrees is a significant change that you can see by the eye.  The launch angle and spin do change on the LM as I progressively increase the loft setting from 8 to 11 but unlike other clubs it doesn't hook when I increase the loft. Other clubs when I increase loft the face closes and they hook.

Anyone with knowledge on this specific hosel and why I don't see a face adjustment of 4 degrees when soled?

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#400 Stuart G.

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 11:19 AM

View Postthepinkbomber, on 20 December 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

Curious if this is true with the 2017 EPIC adjustable hosel.  I have a 9 degree.  When I set the lie adjustment to neutral and adjust the loft from 8, 9, 10, and 11 the face angle does not change when I sole the club.  4 degrees is a significant change that you can see by the eye.  The launch angle and spin do change on the LM as I progressively increase the loft setting from 8 to 11 but unlike other clubs it doesn't hook when I increase the loft. Other clubs when I increase loft the face closes and they hook.

Anyone with knowledge on this specific hosel and why I don't see a face adjustment of 4 degrees when soled?

If it's true (havent' had a chance to play around with one), it has nothing to do with the hosel or adapter design.   It would be more a consequence of the sole geometry.   Similar idea to Cobra's 'SmartPad'.

Edited by Stuart G., 28 February 2018 - 04:26 AM.


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#401 boatrightgolf7

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:48 PM

I watched this video great info for sure!

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#402 Jds13

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 11:32 PM

Great great video

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#403 Golfrnut

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 07:47 AM

View PostJds13, on 05 February 2018 - 11:32 PM, said:

Great great video


Was it great?!?  Or was it just good enough to get to your 75 post count since you were forum spamming?
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#404 00ogopogo

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 03:19 PM

View PostStuart G., on 18 October 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

View PostLondoner, on 18 October 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Were not talking putting though. I find it hard to believe they are any better off just trusting the clubs lie for squareness. Theyve still got to aim it. Maybe im missing something.

We are talking about the ability of the player to point the club face in a particular direction and know what direction it's really pointing.

But the key isn't really where it's pointing at set-up.   It only matters where it's pointing at impact and the two are rarely the same.  The only thing that's important is how consistent they are at where it might point at setup.   And there is very little to indicate one method is any more or less consistent then any other.

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#405 LEO MODE

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 01:33 AM

So when I use my Trackman almost always my face angle is slightly open and my swing direction is open too.

Does it mean based on the titleist hosel chart i should make it more to the left and add loft at the same time since opening the club face already adds loft anyway?

I am only talking about a driver of course...


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#406 Dreadzombie

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:41 AM

Why have I not seen this video before, guess I'm the 1/10000 lol, fantastically explained!

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#407 MSG Kunert-zero3Putts

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:08 PM

Can somebody please post a link to the video?

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#408 Stuart G.

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:15 PM

View PostMSG Kunert-zero3Putts, on 17 April 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

Can somebody please post a link to the video?

it's in the first post of the thread.

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#409 Golfrnut

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:16 PM

View PostStuart G., on 17 April 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

View PostMSG Kunert-zero3Putts, on 17 April 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

Can somebody please post a link to the video?

it's in the first post of the thread.

The embedding must be a little porked for some.  I don't see it right now either using chrome.

https://www.youtube....h?v=aj5KOk2oXU0
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#410 Stuart G.

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:48 PM

Not sure what to say - it's showing up fine for me in both Chrome and Firefox.

If you've updated the browser recently, you may also have to update flash.


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#411 dna113p

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:16 PM

I want to know what kind of pristine tee boxes people are playing on where they don't have to adjust the club square...

it completely nullifies this ridiculous argument, adjustable loft drivers are a GOOD thing.

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#412 TKS

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 01:42 PM

View Postdna113p, on 24 April 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

I want to know what kind of pristine tee boxes people are playing on where they don't have to adjust the club square...

it completely nullifies this ridiculous argument, adjustable loft drivers are a GOOD thing.
Nice first post.
Now watch the video again, nobody is saying they are BAD thing. Tom clarified how they work and how to use them better than the MFG have.
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Posted 10 May 2018 - 01:35 AM

So let me see if I got this. If the club is soled you won't visually see a difference. But if you grip and everything is in the swing is the same with the club square at address not soled. Each adjustment will actually change the flight of the ball. Not static loft in itself.
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#414 tripleboogey

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:39 PM

View PostTKS, on 25 April 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

View Postdna113p, on 24 April 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

I want to know what kind of pristine tee boxes people are playing on where they don't have to adjust the club square...

it completely nullifies this ridiculous argument, adjustable loft drivers are a GOOD thing.
Nice first post.
Now watch the video again, nobody is saying they are BAD thing. Tom clarified how they work and how to use them better than the MFG have.

i remember watching this video when it first came out, right when i got my first adjustable loft driver.  i remember thinking he was just full of it.

years later, watching it, he has points, valid points, but where i realize i don't agree with him is in regards to soling the club.  i hadn't done this in years.  i can get my grip better by holding the club up with i grip it and gripping it with the face angle where it is most comfortable for my eye and playing with loft in that regard.  i found a lot of the modern drivers before we got into adjustable lofts would sit funny when soled.  i also practiced a lot at a driving range with spotty grass that always made soling the club difficult.

if you sole the club, he comments are valid.

i will agree with some others, and it was dumb luck for me, regrip your club after you find that sweet spot for the club adjustment.  i just always happen to regrip after i got the club and played around (well, reshafted too), but that helps too.

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#415 Texsport

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:22 PM

Mizuno has addressed some of this with their GT180 driver.

Loft and lie are hosel adapter functions.

Wanting the look of an open face at address is facilitated by a movable sole chuck. It makes the club sit open, square or closed when soled on the turf. If you then grip the club, it is pre-rotated into a consistently preset position. I believe desiring an open face is a learned preference of good players who draw the ball.

To address swing induced fades or draws, Mizuno uses sliding weights which can be moved to the toe, center, or heel -  offsetting incorrect swing path shot spin and dictating more or less face rotation thru impact.

The same sliding weights can to installed closer or further from the face to affect launch angle and spin generation by the head.

It's the ultimate club for good playing range rats.

It's also the best driver I've hit ever - easily displacing a Callaway Epic from my bag.

Fortunately for me, my setting are fairly simple - 10.5*, neutral center weight position, mid-high/mid-spin  launch position.

Very solid perforning and feeling driver.

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#416 TKS

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:14 PM

It's all been done before. Nothing new here. I like the blue paint.
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#417 Go_Time

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:37 PM

So does this mean i also have to square the club face at address if I'm adjusting the hosel to manipulate lie angle?

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#418 Texsport

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:22 AM

If you have a square face but approach the ball from in-to-out ----- hook!

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#419 Texsport

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:27 AM

View PostTKS, on 20 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

It's all been done before. Nothing new here. I like the blue paint.

But not all the possible adjustments together in 1 club - which is new.

Additionally, the face of the Mizuno is hotter than what was previously allowed, but they skirt the regulations another way.

Which previous club had a moveable chuck to adjust address position like the Mizuno GT180?

Texsport
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#420 TKS

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:35 PM

View PostTexsport, on 21 May 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

View PostTKS, on 20 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

It's all been done before. Nothing new here. I like the blue paint.

But not all the possible adjustments together in 1 club - which is new.

Additionally, the face of the Mizuno is hotter than what was previously allowed, but they skirt the regulations another way.

Which previous club had a moveable chuck to adjust address position like the Mizuno GT180?

Texsport
TM R11s had the sole piece thing going on - but it didn't stick. Whats this about the face?
Should have named this the Prego! https://www.youtube....h?v=9_ula09o_tc
Love the V4s in your bag.

Edited by TKS, 21 May 2018 - 06:37 PM.

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919F/D, Black Shaft
775 18* hyb, Interflexx Shaft
590 4iron, Black hybd Shaft
5-PW Sterlings Stepless Steel Shafts
PCF PRO AW 50*
PCF Micro 54*
PCF Micro 58*
S2R #5 putter Double Bend Shaft
Softer Urethane balls - too many to list

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