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How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to post on this site. Thanks Tom Wishon


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#361 evoviiiyou

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:28 AM

Great video and very enlightening. One question I have is doesn't an adjustable sole plate allow for all 3 variables to be met with one static loft and adjustable hosel device?

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#362 andyk856

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:16 AM

every time i adjust my driver to any setting besides square it just goes all over the place.
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#363 BY#99

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 08:17 PM

Maybe I am different but I think sometimes things are to technical. All I know is my driver is adjustable and it does allow me to move the ball left and right based on my adjustments.  I do also notice a difference in ballflight in the loft. The Nike adapter is one I like because I can open/close separate from loft. I know the concerns of this not being possible but I can SEE the results to be true when on the course. I do not get caught up in what the technical "experts" say because I trust my eyes out on the course to tell me what is happening.

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#364 Stuart G.

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Posted 23 December 2016 - 05:04 AM

Yes.   Many people over think these things.   The results are the only thing that really matters.   The 'why' can potentially help us with fitting and future purchases/adjustments so can be important in a different context, but the bottom line will always be the results.

As far as the Nike's 'face angle adjustment' goes and being independent of loft - it depends.   It basically rotates the shaft and changes how the grip markings align with the head.  So technically it doesn't really change the face angle of the head but it can potentially change the face orientation at address (not exactly the same thing)  so it certainly can influence the results for some.

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#365 tomjohnson

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:24 PM

I'm glad this video was made, lots of great points! The differentiation of what adjustable hosels are thought to do and can actually do is very important. I think custom fitting is the better answer, and the adjustable hosel makes this more difficult because the proper specs are absent like Tom said.


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#366 sbboudreau

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 08:34 AM

So informative. Thanks for posting this video.
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#367 Ure1978

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:15 PM

Great info !! Thank you

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#368 jrwingate6

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:43 PM

I haven't really hit a screw in shaft driver that I liked yet. For some reason, I just feel like I get more feel out of a fixed shaft.

Maybe it's in my head.

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#369 gsrjc

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 09:37 PM

So basically, whatever changes are made to the hosel, I need to always remember to sole the club where the face is square.

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#370 Rocks

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 08:48 AM

Interesting and informative video. I always wondered why the persimmon drivers had such a big neck. I like the ability to switch out the shafts more than playing around with the adjustment hosel.


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#371 joshmb1999

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:34 PM

great video!

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#372 Golfrnut

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 06:41 AM

 joshmb1999, on 24 May 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

great video!


Was it?  Or were you just working on your post count?
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#373 Peanut191

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:32 AM

 Golfrnut, on 25 May 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

 joshmb1999, on 24 May 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

great video!


Was it?  Or were you just working on your post count?

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#374 Golfrnut

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:29 AM

 Peanut191, on 25 May 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

 Golfrnut, on 25 May 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

 joshmb1999, on 24 May 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

great video!


Was it?  Or were you just working on your post count?

Since 2008?

Ironic that 20 of those 76 post came in about a day.  You see a lot of the quick posts when people are trying to get above that 75 post threshold to sell on the BST.  Ironically, most people's post count stops just above that number too.
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#375 Peanut191

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:54 AM

 Golfrnut, on 25 May 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

 Peanut191, on 25 May 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

 Golfrnut, on 25 May 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

 joshmb1999, on 24 May 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

great video!


Was it?  Or were you just working on your post count?

Since 2008?

Ironic that 20 of those 76 post came in about a day.  You see a lot of the quick posts when people are trying to get above that 75 post threshold to sell on the BST.  Ironically, most people's post count stops just above that number too.

Ah, ok.  76 posts on almost 10 years, but 20 of them on one day.  Makes sense now.

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#376 Clifford

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:34 AM

I only like the adjustable hosel because I can switch shafts easily. Thats it.
I buy the clubhead at my preferred loft and leave the hosel at standard. I have tried to mess around with the loft and lie but its never as good as the standard setting so I just leave it at standard.
Great video

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#377 ConcentricDimples

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:51 AM

So if I adjust my driver 2 degrees up in loft, but I set the Club on the ground at address, the driver face is really just closed 2 degrees?

In various planes of adjustment, it would seem possible to adjust face angle without adjusting loft, no? (I realize this may or may not be an option on any given adapter system).

Is it true that for physics/engineering reasons (energy transfer, torsional rigidity of connection, etc), the Club plays the best at neutral setting?

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#378 Stuart G.

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:39 AM

 ConcentricDimples, on 19 June 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

So if I adjust my driver 2 degrees up in loft, but I set the Club on the ground at address, the driver face is really just closed 2 degrees?

In various planes of adjustment, it would seem possible to adjust face angle without adjusting loft, no? (I realize this may or may not be an option on any given adapter system).

"Face angle" can be a confusing term, it's often used in different and conflicting contexts.   When we are talking about the specification of the head, face angle" is like loft - it's a design specification of the head that is measured in a very specific way and really is not dependent on how you (or anyone) sets up to the ball at address.   You can rotate the club all you want at address to point in any direction, but that doesn't really change the face angle spec of the head.     So no, you cant' really adjust the face angle independent of the effective loft (only the head designer can do that).

And if you adjust the effective loft +2*, then the face angle changes by about 3.8* more closed then it was before the adjustment.


 ConcentricDimples, on 19 June 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

Is it true that for physics/engineering reasons (energy transfer, torsional rigidity of connection, etc), the Club plays the best at neutral setting?

No.   All that matters to impact is the dynamic loft you deliver at impact and the how the face is oriented relative to the club path (and you are able to hit the ball in the center of the face).   There are numerous ways to get to the name impact conditions with widely different starting static specs of the club.     Given a particular individuals swing, some settings might be more conductive to get the desired results then other settings - but that's about it.   "neutral" is just an arbitrary center point for the range of adjustability.

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#379 Big Ben

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:12 PM

This is fantastic Tom as a decent stick this truly explains a lot to me. Based on my experiences it makes total sense....BB
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#380 Rdarling18

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:11 PM

Thank you for this information it is good knowledge to understand.

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#381 jdang307

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 11:22 AM

Just want to be clear. I have a 2016 M2 driver. It's a 10.5. I'm a beginner and I hit the ball pretty straight most of the time. No draw, no slice. When I miss, it is a slight slice. So I want to keep the clubface square to keep at it.

I also want to try my driver at 12.5. Three options are to go buy a spare club head ($$$), go try a completely different club at 12.5, or adjust my driver. When I went to investigate adjusting the M2, talk of closing the head, opening the head etc, scared me off.

But what Tom Wishon is saying, is, if I adjust it to 12.5, and ignore the marking on my grip and square the club face before taking my grip, my face will be square again, and then I'll have the loft? And for poop and giggles, if I leave the club as it lay, it'll be 10.5 still, but a closed face?

That's exactly what I want, so if that is true, that is good news.

Of course the lie angle will be higher, and as a shorter golfer playing too long of a driver shaft, that may be a problem. But it's worth experimenting.

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#382 daryllwin

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 08:50 PM

Actually What is stopping club manufacturers from having that little piece of softer material on the hosel? That way you could still bend it, but then let people play with the face angle and all that.
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#383 infinite_galaxy

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:58 PM

Wow that video was extremely illuminating. I have always bought my clubs used and never had a fitting, but I'm definitely planning on getting a fitting before my next set purchase

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#384 sandy

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:32 PM

A good explanation of why virtually every photo shown of pros WITB the hosel is most always in the standard setting A1, S N, O for Titleist, Callaway, Ping. Ping with their minimal adjustability from the beginning would seem know this but had to have something to compete..

Another example why so many premium Japanese drivers are glued period..

Edited by sandy, 13 September 2017 - 05:33 PM.


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#385 17Platinum

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 01:44 PM

 Farrow, on 22 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

So in the first portion of this video Tom clearly shows us that specs were measured one way with "wood" woods, and that there was a shift to a new method once metal woods hit the scene.  So why does one jump in technology deserve a redefinition of spec measurements, but the newest jump does not?  Was the "wood" woods method not used for "decades and decades" as Tom so clearly points out about the "green machine"?  Sometimes the way things were done in the past becomes antiquated and there is a need for a new process.  It seems to me that this video is more of a marketing video for his own product than a purely educational piece.

And his statements about adjustable drivers muddling up the fitting process are totally absurd.  With a trained fitter these adjustable clubs can make fittings much simpler and faster.  The trial and error method is only for people who grab a club off the rack and take it to the range on their own without any knowledge of club fitting.  If a club fitter is worth his beans at all, he can fit using the new technology with no problem.  If anything, the new tech gives fitters more options.  Say someone wants to be fit for an SLDR (I have no loyalty or interest in TaylorMade, it's just an example), the fitter can choose from 9.5°, 10.5°, 12°, and 14° lofts.   They also have the ability to change settings on the fly.  Say the "lower" setting on the adapter seems to give you the best shot shape, but the 9.5° head launches slightly too low, the fitter can easily swap it out for a 10.5° head on the same setting.  And where the fitter comes in is being able to take the guess work out of it and start with a setting that will most likely fit the golfer and fine tune from there.  This is the same as has been done for years in the past with "traditional" clubs. It's just that now all the fitter needs to adjust the club to your specs is a wrench instead of a specialized clamp that most shops would never have to begin with.

Lastly, no golfer brings the club head into impact with the exact same setup that they had at address.  The golf swing is dynamic and therefore the dynamic loft is much more important than static loft.  Of course from a fitting stand point you have to start with the correct static loft to get the correct dynamic loft, but just because a golfer lets the club sole on the ground before a shot does not by any means indicate that's the same orientation the club will be in when it meets the ball.  Therefore, perhaps a redefined method for measuring loft was needed all along.  Just because a certain method has been used for years and years does not mean it's the best way or the correct way.  If the world ran on that logic we'd all still be living in caves wearing animal skin leotards.


I think I need Tom to include pictures, if he agrees..
'cause i'm confused a heap!


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#386 Londoner

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 01:44 PM

Why would anyone spending 350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?
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#387 Golfrnut

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 02:24 PM

 Londoner, on 17 October 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Why would anyone spending £350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?


Because for some golfers it's not a good idea to hold the face square.  Some need offset face angles to improve starting direction and shot shape, whether that means an open or closed face angle.  It's also a lot harder for some to repetitively "eyeball" a face to square to target and soling the club provides an easier option to maintain consistency.
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#388 Londoner

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 02:37 PM

 Golfrnut, on 17 October 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

 Londoner, on 17 October 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Why would anyone spending 350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?


Because for some golfers it's not a good idea to hold the face square.  Some need offset face angles to improve starting direction and shot shape, whether that means an open or closed face angle.  It's also a lot harder for some to repetitively "eyeball" a face to square to target and soling the club provides an easier option to maintain consistency.

Really? People cant see if a 460 driver face is square? What do they do with a wedge?
Assuming after this closed/open face starts them on the right line they return the face square to the ball. The face loft contribution to the overall dynamic loft is as the maker and hosel states. Sorry i dont see the big issue. If the fairways are running i knock my loft down & face opens. I adjust. If its wet i crank loft up and faces closes. I adjust.

Edited by Londoner, 17 October 2017 - 02:39 PM.

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#389 Golfrnut

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 02:49 PM

 Londoner, on 17 October 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

 Golfrnut, on 17 October 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

 Londoner, on 17 October 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Why would anyone spending £350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?
Because for some golfers it's not a good idea to hold the face square. Some need offset face angles to improve starting direction and shot shape, whether that means an open or closed face angle. It's also a lot harder for some to repetitively "eyeball" a face to square to target and soling the club provides an easier option to maintain consistency.
Really? People cant see if a 460 driver face is square? What do they do with a wedge? Assuming after this closed/open face starts them on the right line they return the face square to the ball. The face loft contribution to the overall dynamic loft is as the maker and hosel states. Sorry i dont see the big issue. If the fairways are running i knock my loft down & face opens. I adjust. If its wet i crank loft up and faces closes. I adjust.

Works for some, doesn't work for others.  Not a big deal, just has to be taken into account.
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#390 Stuart G.

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:35 AM

 Londoner, on 17 October 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Really? People cant see if a 460 driver face is square? What do they do with a wedge?

Forget the wedges, numerous studies have shown that most average golfers can't really see if their putter is square and pointed in the right direction.


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