TMBob, on 22 September 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:
Some what confused here and have included a few examples of why,
So I buy a fixed hosel driver and it's custom fit to my specs. (lie, loft and fa) It is custom fit this way to help me hit the ball straighter based on my main miss because I cannot square the club up at impact. I start to learn how to square the ball up at impact and now what? Pretty clear, you need a new driver to match your correction. If this was the same case with an adjustable head, are you saying that I could not just make an adjustment to the orientation of the sleeve to match my swing changes?
So I buy an adjustable driver in a loft that has worked for me in the past in a fix headed driver. I prefer a open look at address which I could not find in a fixed hosel version so I set the sleeve on open. I aline my grip to match this open position based on the club while being soled, but when I address the ball with my driver, I do not sole the driver to the ground. I grip the driver based on the grip looking square and the face angle looking open. I never soled the head at address.....is the club not open and have a slightly lower loft?
If any golfer is custom fit for the loft, lie and face angle that he needs for each of the three specs, and if the face angle is closed to reduce his slice, if later on he changes his swing to now get rid of the slice moves in the swing, that closed face will now hook or pull the ball. If this hook or pull is taking the ball more out of play, then yes, he needs to be re fit for a different driver so its loft, lie and face angle now each are set up to best match to the new way he swings the club. Thing is, this doesn't happen very often in the game (sadly so I will say) because, 1) most golfers either do not have the money or time or commitment to taking the lessons and then doing the work to really re groove the swing with the correct fundamentals. I wish that were so but that just is the way it has always been. Only a very small number of golfers end up doing this. 2) here's the bigger one - most golfers who slice the ball do not have the athletic ability to change from the outside in path or open hands position through impact to then deliver the face square with a square face angle driver.
But yes, for those who slice the ball 15 yds or more and get fit correctly for loft, lie and face angle, if they do improve the swing to achieve a more square path and more square delivery of the face from their release will need to get re fit with a new loft and new face angle to achieve their best results.
Can this same thing be done with an adj hosel driver? Sometimes but not every time, and at the least it will be confusing for most to figure out how to do this. The help of a good clubmaker with experience in measuring head specs would help in the process. But this is a maybe not a for sure because of the fact that if you use the sleeve to change the face angle, there is only one loft and one lie that is going to go along with that face angle because the mechanics of the sleeve dictate these specs are locked together and cannot be had independently of each other.
So let's say as an example that the golfer did slice the ball and someone with knowledge got him set up with his adj hosel driver to use the sleeve to put it into a closed face angle position and to tell the golfer to always sole the driver that way or hold it with that face closed to reduce his slice. At that closed face angle, there is one loft on the head only. And let;s say that loft with that face angle happened to be good for the golfer for his best launch angle for his speed and angle of attack. Now let's say the golfer takes lessons, works on his swing, and does achieve a more square path and face delivery in his swing. If he then just rotates and holds the face square, the loft is now higher and probably doesn't fit his swing. or if he has the hosel adjusted so that it now is square when soled, whether he gets the right loft after this then is a tossup that depends on whether he was soling the driver when its adapter was rotated so the soled position was a closed face or whether he was holding the face closed.
Either way, it is far more of a trial and experimentation guessing game with the adj hosel driver because of the simple fact that the loft, lie and face angle are locked together to each other with no ability for each to be changed separate of each other.
TMBob, on 22 September 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:
Also, When Tom mentioned his sleeves, and why they were different then the others, it just flew right by me. Can someone explain the difference please.
After watching the video, I am interested in getting fit for a custom fixed head mainly because of lie angle. ( I need a flatter lie, or at least I think so as most of the newer heads seem to have a rocker sole that when I address it, the toe is sitting very high up. Or I need to try a much shorter shaft which Tom's charts agrees with)
Seems to me the biggest effect on face angle and loft are the players hands at impact and how they grip the shaft, followed by how they swing at the ball and how their eyes perceive what a square face is.
This thread make me want to pull out my bent open TM Tour SQ again....no more adjustable heads for me! Oh wait....that means no more shaft Ho'ing.
On my adjustable driver, there are a few differences from the others. Engineering wise, I made the sleeve so that when the head is soled to get the lie and face angle changes, the range in open to closed and range in upright to flat are within a more narrow range. For example, the face angle ranges from 3 hook to 3 open and the lie locked together with that ranges from 60.25 to 56. Other adjustables when soled in each different hosel sleeve position have much wider swings in face angle and lie than that - with many being from 6 to 7 open to 2 to 3 closed.
But a big thing with my adj hosel driver is simply the fact that with each head comes a brochure that has separate spec charts to tell you what loft, lie and face angle you get for each of the 8 sleeve positions for whether the head is soled or whether the head is held square behind the ball. If you sole the driver, there is one chart that tells you the loft stays what it is on the head model (we offer a 9.5 and 11 versions) and tells you what the lie and face angle change are for each different sleeve position.
Then there are two other charts that tell you what the loft and lie change is for each of the two models when you hold the face square in the address position.
the reason this is different is because I know of none of the other companies that clearly say "this is the loft, this is the lie, this is the face angle when you sole the head, and this is the loft, this is the lie, this is the face angle when you hold the head square." I just wanted to be sure we were crystal clear in telling people what each of the three specs are for the two different ways one could use the driver, soled or held square.
Hope this helps,