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How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to post on this site. Thanks Tom Wishon


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#1 Albatross85

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:04 PM


Edited by Albatross85, 18 September 2014 - 06:42 AM.

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#2 jldavis73

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:50 PM

For once, I feel a little bit smarter after watching something on YouTube.  Thanks!
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#3 Night train

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 02:54 PM

..............so I'm not really crazy after all


Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration

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#4 erock9174

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 03:19 PM

So let me know if I got this straight.

Adjustable driver:
Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down

Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle
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#5 steviethev

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 03:58 PM

Fantastic video. Thanks.


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#6 harold baines

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 04:01 PM

 Night train, on 17 September 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

..............so I'm not really crazy after all


Every adjustable driver I've owned I prefered hitting in the stock configuration

Right there with you, adjusted from standard always played poorly for me.  I'd go from liking a club to hating its feel with a small adjustment

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#7 TomWishon

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 04:11 PM

 erock9174, on 17 September 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

So let me know if I got this straight.

Adjustable driver:
Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down

Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle

Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.

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#8 Sean2

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 04:22 PM

Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?
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#9 wolfpack

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 06:13 PM

Good stuff Tom
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#10 golf9596

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 06:42 PM

Tom,

I prefer to look at an open face, therefore I choose a higher loft in order to open the face and lower the loft…Am I on the right track??? Thanks for the great video.

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#11 Kadin 25

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:22 PM

 Sean2, on 17 September 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Isn't that the gentleman Kadin is teaching?
Oh my freind you have it a little backwards.  Tom is the master and I am the student :)

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#12 ctgolfnut66

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:27 PM

Excellent video, Tom.  This should be a pre-requisite for everyone here.
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#13 ImBurningStarIV

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:29 PM

I'm actually growing tired of these wishon adjustable driver threads.....I can change shafts whenever, and easily, who gives a f***. I'm a ho.

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#14 vinax

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:31 PM

As a "shaft-toid" all I use adjustable drivers for is to quickly change shafts.

I also hook open face drivers and slice closed face drivers so all this adjustment crap doesn't work for me.

Give me a square face driver and I will put it down there in the middle of the fairway.
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#15 Ezgolfer

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:32 PM

Great..


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#16 Emthree

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:48 PM

That was an education. I had heard something about not grounding modern drivers, this explains it in much better detail. Did not know folks did such trickery with wooden clubs though!
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#17 WalleyeDave

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:51 PM

So I have finally done something right by always squaring up the head before I hit the ball. I have found adjustable drivers to do as advertised, but still just prefer to hit a fixed head model.
Thanks for the info Tom.

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#18 TomMatreyek

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:02 PM

This needs to be pinned.
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#19 artica

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:27 PM

I only like having the ability to adjust it from open, close or neutral. I tend to go close the majority of the time but if I start hooking, putting it in the open position for the back nine has helped.... It could be placebo though
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#20 pgagolfstuff

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:33 PM

Wow this guy has forgotten more about golf technology than most of us will ever know.. Well done!


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#21 dunn

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:21 PM

I too just prefer a glue in....never had a problem with drivers the way they were....you just can't find any anymore....I too usually go for more loft and then open face turning the loft down......

On square or open face drivers I never touch the adjustment.....

Always kinda thought adjustable hosels were a waste of time

Just make drivers square or closed in designated lofts

Or like wishon has done...soft neck that's bendable

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#22 Ri_Redneck

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:42 PM

Thank you Tom for taking that HUMONGOUS thread we all participated in and putting it in a simple 20 min video. Now we no longer have to try to get people to spend a day and a half reading through that thing to understand how these clubs are designed to work with various golfers. As a player who started out squaring the face at address, I always knew how the new adjustable drivers worked. The problem was relating this to those who DO NOT square the face. Tom is spot on with every aspect of adjustable woods with this video.

I agree..... PIN THIS BABY!!!!

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#23 Mitchell

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:13 PM

Thanks for the concise explanation that can be used for easy reference
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#24 vinax

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:29 PM

Why dont adjustable drivers come with grips where the grip is marked all around the club (just like the adjustable hosel is marked) so that gripping around it would automatically build the grip around the square face angle? Why not just teach golfers to build their grip around the marking on the grip rather than holding the face visually square and trying to grip around it? Holding a face square visually probably causes more parallax errors that sets up the golfer for failure (by gripping stronger or weaker without knowing it) even before they have swung the club. Hope this makes sense to someone here.

Form example put the same marking as the sleeve below onto the grip that comes with the driver? So a 12 position hosel would need 12 markings on the grip to line up and they could be run down first 6" of the grip so golfer could correctly grip around it.

Posted Image

And put the matching markings on the grip

Posted Image

Edited by vinax, 17 September 2014 - 11:32 PM.

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#25 rebby

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:51 PM

 TomWishon, on 17 September 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

 erock9174, on 17 September 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

So let me know if I got this straight.

Adjustable driver:
Soled to a 0* square position every time = adjustment changes the loft up or down

Soled as it lays, any adjustment = no effect on loft but changes face angle

Absolutely correct, but in both cases the lie angle does also change with the change in the hosel device for any of the adj hosel drivers.

That actually makes sense and, when I pictured it in my head, that's always what I assumed was going on.

Now what happens when we throw in a sole plate like the R11/R11S? In this case do we actually have access to all 3 variables in a single adjustable club? On the surface, it would certainly appear to be the case, although, perhaps, not in the exact manner that TM advertises it? IIRC, TM advertises the sole plate as what changes the face angle, wouldn't the sole plate change the loft (and conversely, the hosel would change the face angle, not the loft)? In picturing what would happen to the measurements of my driver in a Mitchell machine when making the aforementioned modifications, the converse to TM's advertising makes a lot more sense.

As if I'm not confusing the situation enough already... It seems that Tour Edge Exotics is being even more/less confusing about what their adjustments are doing. I have to ask however, how are they getting a "loft" adjustment while still disclosing what's going on w/the face angle?

XCG7-Beta.png

Then there is Titleist with their Sure-Fit adapter (see the Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?

Titleist.png

Great video Tom! Thanks for going to the effort to put it together.


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#26 knock it close

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 01:55 AM

 rebby, on 17 September 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

Then there is Titleist with their Sure-Fit adapter (see the Performance Guide). What's the meaning of the * on their "grid"? I can't seem to find it on their website. Are they actually disclosing the exact phenomenon that Tom so clearly explained in the documentation included with the club?

Titleist.png
The star used to denote effective loft (I have an old book and that what it says at the bottom), so loft when the face angle is square, so pretty much exactly what Mr. Wishon was explaining.
Great video Tom! Thanks for going to the effort to put it together.

Edited by knock it close, 18 September 2014 - 01:55 AM.

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#27 JRS

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 03:36 AM

bending/adjusting the hosel fore an aft changes face angle AND loft, maybe not by the technical definition but in relative terms in comparison to it's previous face orientation. and not just because the face angle change affects effective loft when squared.

if the lie angle was 90 deg  bending the hosel fore or aft would result in a loft change only. and of course, if the lie angle was zero the fore/aft bend would change the face angle only. up/down bending only affects lie in either case.

because our lie angles are between 90 and zero the fore/aft bend changes both in similar amounts. with a right handed club, if you bend the hosel forward the face will point more left and more up than it did previously.

this is true for irons and woods or pretty much any object you mount on the end of a stick that's held at a near to 45 degree angle to the ground and then bend the bottom of the stick. but for some reason the golf club industry treats woods and irons differently because one likes to sit on the ground in a certain way.

in my opinion driver loft should be measured like an iron, with the  shaft clamped at the lie angle and neutral shaft lean. then the golfer can compare apples to apples. if you have 2 10 degree "loft" drivers one with an open face and one closed they will play as 2 different lofts, assuming the reason for selecting an open or closed face driver was to promote a square face at impact.

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#28 puttingmatt

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:21 AM

Great video, great information. for myself, I have been a ball flight and trajectory
kind of player. Regardless of how the modern adjustable drivers are set up. All in
all, the adjustable drivers are fine, but like everything else, there are limits.
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#29 JCAG

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:27 AM

Vin

As far as grip alignment. Many people were taught to grip the club with the grip aligned in their hands in a specific way. The old Golf Pride Green Victory grip was a favorite of teachers for this reason.

Somebody mentioned old wooden club tricks. One was to align the crown decals a few degrees off for optical reasons. Many aligned the decal (especially the longer face to heel ones) so shifting it a few degrees would cause them to align the face different as their eyes saw the decal.

Edited by JCAG, 18 September 2014 - 11:08 AM.


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#30 pafill

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 02:57 PM

 Albatross85, on 17 September 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:



My thought has always been that specifications on a club were based on a machine swinging from a fixed, consistant position. I know that the way I swing the club is different than the machine and nearly all of you. My best results  from adjusting my R1 came from adding impact paper to the face and hitting balls and adjusting all aspects until I reached a point of where I was more consistant in hitting the sweet spot. The settings I've settled on have been a surprise but my contact has improved my driving.


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