51 replies to this topic

[jaemcsd]

Anyone taken lessons at GolfTec? Looks good, not sure how much is costs though.


http://www.golftec.com/

[docbarnes]

Excellent place to take lessons.  Very good if you are a beginner and wanting to fully understand the proper fundamentals of the golf swing.

Weblessons are great and the biofeedback in awesome.

Cost runs anywhere from around $50 and up depending on how many lessons you take.
Also, this month is a good time to go because of their sale.

Hope this helped.

[tpariff]

I'm scheduled to take my 5th of 15 lessons tomorrow.  I was very skeptical at first despite the referral from a good friend of mine.  We are both 5 handicaps and he had been struggling, so he gave Golftec a shot.  I went for the initial one hour evaluation (at a reduced price because of the referral) and liked their system.

Here's what I've found:

-  Take the evaluation.  There's no obligation to buy lessons, and you'll see if it is something for you.
-  If you decide to buy a lesson package, you have 30 days to cancel it and get back the remainder of your money.  So, if you buy a 10 or 15 lesson pack and don't like it after the first couple of lessons, cancel it and move on.
-  If you buy a lesson pack, make sure you get a practice plan.  I got the 3 month practice plan which is worth every penny.  I can go as much as I want.  Everything is on video and can be paused, rewound, fast forwarded, etc.  And it's indoors which helps.  My Golftec is 5 minutes from home, so I go a couple times a week for practice.  IMO this is the best bang for the buck.

Again, I was VERY skeptical in thinking that my instructor would be some hourly wage guy who didn't know jack squat about the game.  Well, my instructor is actually a graduate of the Mississippi State PGM program, and he has a great swing and knows quite a bit about the game from what I've seen.  My good friend and I have the same instructor, and we work on very different things because our swings are different.

With the special they are running, I'm probably going to extend my lesson pack and renew the practice plan so that I get another 3 months at a reduced cost.  If you're going to do it, do it NOW while the prices are low.

PM if you need other details.  As with everything, it works for some but not for others.  You have to try it for yourself and see if you like it.

[Solutions Etcetera]

What does it cost?

[stevestrike]

The lessons there are expensive compared to other instructors near me.  They will totally break your swing down, and rebuild it from the ground up--which is what I needed.  They are not a place to go get a "band-aid" fix IMHO, which is what a lot of golf course pros tend to do.

GolfTec will want a big money commitment out of you, five lessons are around $380 and ten are $640.  Don't quote me on the exact numbers, I'm pulling from memory here.  And they have packages much bigger than that.

For me, I went with them because I like the website review feature.  I can go back and review my lesson, download it to my computer, watch my swing as I hear my instructor go over it again and again.    Now, I hear other instructors are starting to get in on this where they will record the lesson, and give it to you on DVD for later review.  Either way, this feature is huge for me.  30 minutes with a pro goes by real quick--especially for $75!  So being able to re-visit the lesson and keep learning from it makes it worthwhile to me.

I think the video feature is a huge help to them in fixing your swing as well.  My instructor can see exactly what I'm doing, slow it down, and show it to me.  For me, seeing exactly what I'm doing wrong is very helpful.  I finally was able to understand concepts like "having the club inside", "coming over the top", and a bunch of other common swing faults.  The instructors can draw lines on the screen to show where your club is, and where it should be.  This makes it easier to make the adjustment I think.  Hope this helps.

[jaemcsd]

Thanks everyone, I went by after work yesterday and it looked pretty good. The 1 hour evaluation costs $160, but is 'only' $90 if you buy a lesson pack. Here in Richmond, VA they have 2 rooms set up with cameras and video stuff, one for right handed and one for lefty (woo-hoo). I actually have 2 lessons that I already paid for somewhere else that I may take first, but it looks good.

[lefty32]

I had a horrible experience with Golftec and I don't want anyone to go through the experience I did.  First of all, they are really expensive, the lessons are 30 min each and start at $90 and do go down if you buy a bigger lesson package (ex. if you buy 15 lessons, they each end up being $65 or so).  But there lies the rub, you more than likely will be buying a lesson package because of the shorter lesson time (half hour vs hour).  That in itself is not necessarily bad, but what turns out is that the instructors are motivated to instruct at a pace of the lesson plan.  Example, let's say you buy 15 30 min lessons.  Hmmm, I bet it's more than a coincidence that you'll spend 5 lessons on takeway/backswing, 5 lessons on downswing, 5 lessons on followthrough.  After my 5th lesson where we worked finally to the top of the backswing, I couldn't help wonder if I had bought 10 lessons, would I have gotten to the same place in 3 lessons.  This was excruciatingly frustrating because my major swing faults are all in the transition/downswing/release.  My takeaway/backswing isn't perfect, but I did not have any glaring fundamental breakdowns (reveres pivot, too inside, etc).  I probably performed a full swing a total of 25 times in those 5 lessons.  Total!  That's the second thing that I hated, they relied too much on capturing your swing positions and comparing them pros (Stuart Appleby for me).  Instead of dynamically looking at your swing and using the videos to aid the instruction, my instructor used the video as a crutch to perfectly match takeaway positions (by way of a still frame from the video) to a pro.  So, golftec could work for someone who wants to start at the very beginning of the swing and inch by inch work from address to followthrough.  But for someone who wants to work on major swing faults this isn't for them.  If you look hard enough (I know that 's the hard part) you can find much better instruction longer (60 min) for much less.  And I bet you'll actually hit a golf ball during the lessons!

[stevestrike]

lefty32, how do you know that that you didn't have any swingfaults in the backswing?  What were you working on for five lessons then?  If you didn't need any work on your backswing, I can't see how they could keep you busy for five lessons working on "nothing".

Anyway, GolfTec is a big company, and they have many instructors there.  Maybe you got a dud.  I'm sure not all of them are great, like the ones I've had experience with.  Talk with your instructor, and make sure it's a good fit before proceeding!

[tpariff]

 lefty32, on Aug 7 2007, 11:13 AM, said:

I had a horrible experience with Golftec and I don't want anyone to go through the experience I did.  First of all, they are really expensive, the lessons are 30 min each and start at $90 and do go down if you buy a bigger lesson package (ex. if you buy 15 lessons, they each end up being $65 or so).  But there lies the rub, you more than likely will be buying a lesson package because of the shorter lesson time (half hour vs hour).  That in itself is not necessarily bad, but what turns out is that the instructors are motivated to instruct at a pace of the lesson plan.  Example, let's say you buy 15 30 min lessons.  Hmmm, I bet it's more than a coincidence that you'll spend 5 lessons on takeway/backswing, 5 lessons on downswing, 5 lessons on followthrough.  After my 5th lesson where we worked finally to the top of the backswing, I couldn't help wonder if I had bought 10 lessons, would I have gotten to the same place in 3 lessons.  This was excruciatingly frustrating because my major swing faults are all in the transition/downswing/release.  My takeaway/backswing isn't perfect, but I did not have any glaring fundamental breakdowns (reveres pivot, too inside, etc).  I probably performed a full swing a total of 25 times in those 5 lessons.  Total!  That's the second thing that I hated, they relied too much on capturing your swing positions and comparing them pros (Stuart Appleby for me).  Instead of dynamically looking at your swing and using the videos to aid the instruction, my instructor used the video as a crutch to perfectly match takeaway positions (by way of a still frame from the video) to a pro.  So, golftec could work for someone who wants to start at the very beginning of the swing and inch by inch work from address to followthrough.  But for someone who wants to work on major swing faults this isn't for them.  If you look hard enough (I know that 's the hard part) you can find much better instruction longer (60 min) for much less.  And I bet you'll actually hit a golf ball during the lessons!

Sounds like you had a bad experience.  If I were in your shoes at the time and wasn't happy with it, I would have requested a refund of my remaining lesson package.  Remember, as long as it's within 30 days from the time you paid, you can get a refund on your remaining balance.  For argument sake, let's say you bought the 15 lesson package at $900, or $60 per lesson (estimating as I don't remember exactly what it cost).  After 3 weeks (assuming one lesson per week) of working on the backswing, maybe you're pissed off and think it's B.S.  Maybe you feel your backswing is fine and you want to progress.  It would have been very simple to request a refund of your remaining balance, $720, and you would be out $180 for the 3 used lessons.

Again, it's not for everyone, but GolfTEC does offer this money back program for unsatisfied customers.

That said, I personally feel that it is NOT strictly for beginners.  As I said in a previous post, I'm currently a 5 handicap and used to be a 1 - prior to the birth of my daughter.  I play in state golf association events and can hold my own with almost anyone.  The things I work on are vastly different from what a beginner works on.  My main struggle is staying connected with the arms and body.  My legs, hips, shoulders, etc. are all fine, as is my weight shift.  We haven't even discussed those areas other than my instructor saying they are fine.

I get more out of the 30 minutes at GolfTEC than I would get out of an hour or more hitting balls on a range with a pro watching.  Most pros in my area don't use video, and if they do, the price is the same or more than GolfTEC.  Granted I don't hit 50 or 60 balls during my lesson, but the 10-20 balls I do hit are done with meaning.  I use the Practice Plan I purchased to groove my lessons.  Then when I head to the course, I am able to let the swing happen and not focus on the tweaks I'm making.

As stated previously here and to my instructor to his face, I was the biggest skeptic when I heard about GolfTEC.  It took me a couple of months to make the effort to take the evaluation.  During most of that time I was watching a good friend of mine improve on a weekly basis and take cash from me on the course.

Anyway, sorry for the rant.  Like anything else, there will always be two sides to every story.  If anyone out there has a doubt, try at least the evaluation and go from there.

[Solutions Etcetera]

Different things work for different folks. For me though, if I was gonna drop the better part of a grand on lessons, I would want a good amount of them to be on the course. Grooving your swing on a mat or the range, all square and lined up is one thing. Grooving it with all the possible lie/stance conditions during a round is another. Just MHO.

After coming back from almost a 5 year layoff I know lessons are in my future. I am gonna start with the pro at the local resort next week, but I am also thinking of ponying up a bit more going the golf school vacation route.

Anybody have any experience with golfmadesimple.com or the Golf Digest vacation schools? The golfmadesimple itinerary looks pretty wild. I gotta think a few solid days of both practice and in round instruction without anything else to manage or even think about makes for a bit more retention.

[tpariff]

 Solutions Etcetera, on Aug 7 2007, 09:10 PM, said:

Different things work for different folks. For me though, if I was gonna drop the better part of a grand on lessons, I would want a good amount of them to be on the course. Grooving your swing on a mat or the range, all square and lined up is one thing. Grooving it with all the possible lie/stance conditions during a round is another. Just MHO.

After coming back from almost a 5 year layoff I know lessons are in my future. I am gonna start with the pro at the local resort next week, but I am also thinking of ponying up a bit more going the golf school vacation route.

Anybody have any experience with golfmadesimple.com or the Golf Digest vacation schools? The golfmadesimple itinerary looks pretty wild. I gotta think a few solid days of both practice and in round instruction without anything else to manage or even think about makes for a bit more retention.

I've not done a golf school, but know people who have.  Most of what I've heard is that it is way too much info to digest over a short period of time, and there is very rarely a one-on-one instruction.  Most of the time you are put in a small group of 3-6 people and the instructor works with everyone.  Typically the agenda calls for 8 hours of instruction / practice / play per day for three days.  I looked into golf schools in the past, but never went for all of these reasons.  Overall it looks like a good deal when you compare the price to the amount of time you get, but is it really quality instruction tailored to your game?

At the end of the day, whatever method anyone chooses and the associated cost of that method should have one, and only one, result --- your game gets better.  It doesn't mean jack squat if you get 10 hours of individual instruction for $250 if your game doesn't improve.  The same goes the other way.  If you spend thousands for lessons with a top 50 instructor and it doesn't work, it's still money poorly spent.

There's nothing wrong with taking a single lesson to determine if you like the instructor.  With a golf school type program, you don't get that option.  Instead it's all or nothing.

[Solutions Etcetera]

 tpariff, on Aug 7 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

There's nothing wrong with taking a single lesson to determine if you like the instructor.  With a golf school type program, you don't get that option.  Instead it's all or nothing.

Good point.

Think I will stick with what is local... one lesson at a time. If that doesn't work, move on to the next. I am not looking to reinvent everything that I do, just to recognize some problems that I know I have, and the best method to correct them.

[lefty32]

Stevestrike, to answer your question about how I knew I didn't have any major takeaway/backswing faults, not only because he told me I didn't, but also because of what we worked on.  For example, he wanted to me to have a more shut/closed clubface on the takeaway like Stuart Appleby, so I go home and work on it come back and when I perform it for him and the camera, I'm not AS shut/closed as Appleby, I'm closed, just not enough in his opinion (I'm not even toe up at hip high).  We cannot move forward to my major swing faults until my clubface matches my spine angle during the takeaway! (sorry for the sarcasm, I'm a little bitter)  We didn't work on fixing a reverse pivot, incomplete back/shoulder turn, excessive fanning/rolling of the forearm, none of that because I didn't/don't do any of those, like I mentioned earlier, my backswing is far from perfect, but for the most part it is without major fundamental flaw.  That is just an example of the nitpicky stuff we worked on during the takeaway/backswing.  And I do agree with you that I didn't think someone would keep me busy working on "nothing".  But as I mentioned, to my disappointment, I was getting a swing built one inch at a time from the beginning, whether that's what I needed or not.  I'm just trying to help others not experience what I have.  Good luck with everything.

Tpariff, I glad (and not so glad because of the bad experience) that you did bring up what I should have done, get a refund.  Because that is precisely what I did.  After those 5 lessons and seeing what kind of "track" I was on, I bailed.  That's when I realized Golftec is a spawn of the antichrist.  I'm also glad that your hypothetic refund logic was pretty much the same thing I was thinking (at least someone else thinks the same thing).  Your money breakdown seems logical and fair, but NO!!  Here's how the really do...instead of thinking "I bought 15 lessons for $900, that's $60 a piece, I took 5 lessons ($300), I want my $600 dollars back".  No.  I didn't pay the initial eval. costs ($165) because the guy really wanted my business and wanted to get me in the door and sell me a lesson plan.  Upon wanting a refund, I was informed that I only got that free because I bought a lesson plan.  $900 - $165=$735!!  Now because the price of a lesson comes to $60 ONLY when you buy a 15 lesson package, and since I didn't do all 15 lessons, it was like buying 5 lessons at the 5 lesson price of $85 dollars!!  $735-5($85)=$310!!  Yep, that's right, I paid roughly $900 for 15 lessons, took 1/3 of those lessons and back $310 dollars.  The best part was, it makes too much sense to credit the money back on my credit card, no, I had to wait 11 weeks for a check from corporate.  Crazy huh?  On the other notes, I do hear what your saying about everything else, I might have got a bad apple and I'm glad your experience is working great for you.  I just wanted to put out there what can happen with these guys.  Your advice, good.  My advice, STAY AWAY!

Edited by lefty32, 08 August 2007 - 02:46 PM.

[Solutions Etcetera]

 lefty32, on Aug 8 2007, 12:43 PM, said:

Yep, that's right, I paid roughly $900 for 15 lessons, took 1/3 of those lessons and back $310 dollars.

Lefty... Thanks for that. Even if it is the best technique available, I wouldn't touch these places with a ten foot ball retriever. It seems clear where their priorities lie.

Your contract was for 15 lessons for $900. You used 1/3 of that contract and $600 is what I think you should have expected to receive in good faith... but you should have read the fine print before signing up:

"Refunds on lesson packs and practice memberships are granted within 30 days from the date of purchase.  Refunds are prorated based upon:  (i) lessons taken or number of days elapsed since the date of purchase (whichever is applicable); and (ii) less quantity or package discounts given at time of purchase which shall no longer apply.  There are no refunds given after 30 days from the date of purchase."

I am curious just how prominent this clause was on your contract.

I also notice that there are expiration dates on lessons and gift certificates purchased (when I worked in retail management this was illegal, but laws may have changed as that was a long time ago).

Now I am not suggesting these folks are sleazy (like some of the fitness clubs of past years), but I am less than thrilled with their policies... so it is certainly not for me.

BTW... another red flag for me. When providers of goods or services don't indicate their pricing up front (not to be found on their web site)... When I run into this these days I simply walk away.

Of course if you're interested in buying a franchise... they have it broken down for you to the dollar.

Jaemcsd... whatever you choose I hope it works for you, but arguably there are reasons to avoid this place as it is expensive and it seems clear they will do what they can to keep as much of your money as possible if it doesn't work out.

[strohs]

 Solutions Etcetera, on Aug 8 2007, 04:38 PM, said:

BTW... another red flag for me. When providers of goods or services don't indicate their pricing up front (not to be found on their web site)... When I run into this these days I simply walk away.

Just to note, they used to have their pricing online, and are running a sale right now - maybe thats why its not currently there?

I have taken lessons there in the past and loved every minute of it, I have never learned faster than there...

[Big D McGee]

lefty, thanks for the heads up.  This place sounds purposely confusing at best, and downright shady and unethical at worst.

I realize they are in business to make money; however, they're associated with the game of golf.  Incorporating downright dishonest business practices into your business plan seems pretty contrary to the Gentleman's Game.  I wonder why these PGA professionals would even be involved in a bait-and-switch operation like this.

Caveat Emptor, gentlemen, and sorry you had to take a bullet for us, lefty.  If I ever had to sign a contract like that for some golf lessons, you can be sure I'll walk out the door and let everyone know what a ripoff it is.

tpariff, forgive me if this is offensive...but do you work for Golftec?

[Big D McGee]

 Solutions Etcetera, on Aug 7 2007, 09:58 PM, said:

 tpariff, on Aug 7 2007, 06:34 PM, said:

There's nothing wrong with taking a single lesson to determine if you like the instructor.  With a golf school type program, you don't get that option.  Instead it's all or nothing.

Good point.

Think I will stick with what is local... one lesson at a time. If that doesn't work, move on to the next. I am not looking to reinvent everything that I do, just to recognize some problems that I know I have, and the best method to correct them.

Agreed!  I can go to my local PGA pro (who happens to work at Golf Galaxy), and get a 30 minute lesson covering exactly what I want to work on.  If I call him and say, "Hey, Leigh, I'm struggling with my driver but I'm puring my irons, can you give me some drills?" he's not going to tell me to bring in my 7-iron and work on my address and grip for half an hour.

This makes me MAD that people out there will take advantage of someone trying to improve.

[stevestrike]

 lefty32, on Aug 8 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

Here's how the really do...instead of thinking "I bought 15 lessons for $900, that's $60 a piece, I took 5 lessons ($300), I want my $600 dollars back".  No.  I didn't pay the initial eval. costs ($165) because the guy really wanted my business and wanted to get me in the door and sell me a lesson plan.  Upon wanting a refund, I was informed that I only got that free because I bought a lesson plan.  $900 - $165=$735!!  Now because the price of a lesson comes to $60 ONLY when you buy a 15 lesson package, and since I didn't do all 15 lessons, it was like buying 5 lessons at the 5 lesson price of $85 dollars!!  $735-5($85)=$310!!  Yep, that's right, I paid roughly $900 for 15 lessons, took 1/3 of those lessons and back $310 dollars.

The point is, the discount comes from purchasing more lessons.  When you asked for a refund, you ended up only purchasing 5 lessons so you pay the 5 lesson price--not the 15 lesson price.  This is how ALL business work.  By what you expected to be true, you could really rip-off GolfTec.  If they didn't charge you the 5 lesson price, what's to stop people from getting the 52 lesson pack (cheap lessons) and getting a refund on the pack after a month?  I'd do that every month!

You may not like their lessons or approach to instruction, but I think it's a bit misguided to attack them on something like this.

[lefty32]

 Big D McGee, on Aug 8 2007, 07:22 PM, said:

I wonder why these PGA professionals would even be involved in a bait-and-switch operation like this.

That's a great question McGee, after my fiasco I did a little search on the web and I found one take that resonated with me.  Most instructors at golftec are PGA professionals, same type you would find at a club/course.  One difference though, they aren't at at club/course, they work for golftec.  Why aren't they a teaching pro at an actual golf course?  By all accounts on the web, they would make more money, especially on the lesson front (without golftec's hefty cut) on their own, so to speak.  Taking into account some sort of "weeding out" or "cream rising to the top" paradigm, one could come to the conclusion that the lesser quality pga instructors couldn't get/sustain the jobs at clubs and in order to stay in the business, golftec turns out to be that lifeline.

Now don't get me wrong, this "take" doesn't mean that I think it is impossible to get a quality instructor at golftec, (or that all club pros are great for that matter) it's just that the quality of instruction at golftec may have a propensity of being not so great (as definitely was my experience).  Odds might not be that good.

Also Big McGee, despite the refund screw job, what you said about getting the instruction you want/need is what it's all about and the main reason I'll tell anyone to stay clear of goltec.  If my driver is by far my most troublesome club, too bad for me, all golftec lessons are with a 5 iron.  My slightly outside in/ott/flipper motion are my major faults, hell, throw in a suspect pivot and impact positions.  Is matching my takeaway to Stuart Appleby for 5 lessons THE BEST way to address and fix these problems.  If it is, at least explain to me how a shut/closed clubface is gonna help me hit from the inside and also the root of all my other faults.  I'm not buying it (pun intended).

Edited by lefty32, 08 August 2007 - 11:08 PM.

[stevestrike]

 lefty32, on Aug 8 2007, 11:05 PM, said:

That's a great question McGee, after my fiasco I did a little search on the web and I found one take that resonated with me.  Most instructors at golftec are PGA professionals, same type you would find at a club/course.  One difference though, they aren't at at club/course, they work for golftec.  Why aren't they a teaching pro at an actual golf course?  By all accounts on the web, they would make more money, especially on the lesson front (without golftec's hefty cut) on their own, so to speak.  Taking into account some sort of "weeding out" or "cream rising to the top" paradigm, one could come to the conclusion that the lesser quality pga instructors couldn't get/sustain the jobs at clubs and in order to stay in the business, golftec turns out to be that lifeline.

That's neat "take", but I think a really bad one.  My instructor used to be a club pro.  He told me (yesterday as a matter of fact) that when he was a club pro, he didn't get to focus on instruction, and working with students through their entire swing.  It was, get ready for this tournament, do this and that and this, and "oh I've got a 30-minute block of unused time to squeeze someone in for a lesson.

Look, I'm not saying GolfTec is right for everyone, but you obviously have a hard-on for them and you don't have all the facts--or you're not willing to post them.  My instructor at GolfTec teaches.  That's his job.  He's not managing a course, and giving lessons on the side to make an extra dollar.  If his lessons aren't good, he doesn't do well.  

 lefty32, on Aug 8 2007, 11:05 PM, said:

Also Big McGee, despite the refund screw job, what you said about getting the instruction you want/need is what it's all about and the main reason I'll tell anyone to stay clear of goltec.  If my driver is by far my most troublesome club, too bad for me, all golftec lessons are with a 5 iron.  My slightly outside in/ott/flipper motion are my major faults, hell, throw in a suspect pivot and impact positions.  Is matching my takeaway to Stuart Appleby for 5 lessons THE BEST way to address and fix these problems.  If it is, at least explain to me how a shut/closed clubface is gonna help me hit from the inside and also the root of all my other faults.  I'm not buying it (pun intended).

Man, this is just not true!  I've taken a couple "driver" lessons with my GolfTec instructor.  It sounds to me like you just don't know how to communicate and ask for what you want.  Try this: "I'd like to work on my driver, it's really been giving me trouble."    And once again, you didn't get screwed on the refund, you simply did not read what you signed ahead of time.

[Solutions Etcetera]

 stevestrike, on Aug 8 2007, 08:46 PM, said:

The point is, the discount comes from purchasing more lessons.  When you asked for a refund, you ended up only purchasing 5 lessons so you pay the 5 lesson price--not the 15 lesson price.  This is how ALL business work.  By what you expected to be true, you could really rip-off GolfTec.  If they didn't charge you the 5 lesson price, what's to stop people from getting the 52 lesson pack (cheap lessons) and getting a refund on the pack after a month?  I'd do that every month!

Sorry Steve... I think you are way out of line here. To retroactively raise the price per lesson on a contract that is cancelled "as allowed" because all lessons were not completed is a crock. It may be legal, but it is certainly not what the meaning of refund and cancellation bring to mind. The customer is clearly not satisfied and Golftec decides this is the time to inflict more pain by retroactively charging him more for the lessons he was dissatisfied with. The customer signed up in good faith... and this is how you think he should be treated. Remind me to never do business with you.

Yes, a dissatisfied customer is a liability and an expense. You have made a sale that did not realize the profit of those of satisfied customers. Moreover, you now have additional costs involved to process the cancellation and refund. This is why companies work hard to satisfy their customers. If they can not, most try harder to satisfy or take their lumps. Not Golftec. Their policies are clearly thought out to not lose a dime from a customer who is dissatisfied.

And gee... how can this poor little company protect itself from the significant risk of fraud from this constant flow of customers paying in advance for big discount packages only to cancel so they can get their first few lessons on the cheap??? Give me a break! They use a company database that notes that the customer has been refunded. You don't think there is a central customer database?

I'm sorry but your arguments and justification for this are absurd. And you aren't doing Golftec any favors by defending their business policies... in fact I am a whole lot more ticked off now than before your last post.

How many potential customers has Golftec lost due to the discussion of their business policies here? How much more word of mouth passed on to other golfers from those reading this thread might affect their decision to try Golftec?

I hope Lefty's extra 290 bucks was really important to Golftec, as it has/will probably cost them many times that in good will. I know what I will remember and pass on about Golftec to others should the subject ever arise again... and I am pretty sure I am not the lone ranger here.

[Big D McGee]

^^Tonto here...you sure ain't the lone ranger.  I'll make sure I steer my beginner friend to Golf Galaxy and far, far away from Golftec.

[ApexGrind]

I just signed up for the starter evaluation/lesson promo a couple of weeks ago. Haven't had a chance to go back yet. They have it inside a large Golfsmith store here. I walked in there to use the launch monitor with my driver and then decided I wanted to check the lie of my clubs. Asked the guy at GolfTec and he sort of didn't know what to say since "they don't really do that". So I asked what the price of a lesson was and he figured it was something like $45. "You booked right now?". "No". Let's go. So he scrambled and got some tape and we went through the clubs I wanted to in the 45 minutes we had before the next lesson came in. He hooked me up to show me/demo the rig they use for lessons while I did it. I asked about the evaluation package (on special for $195). It was 2 hours. 1 hour evaluation, 1 swing lesson, 1 putting lesson. Said I was really happy with my putting and could I convert that to another swing lesson. No problem. The guy is a certified PGA member teaching professional. I got along fine with him. I'm looking forward to it. We'll see.

Edited by ApexGrind, 09 August 2007 - 02:44 AM.

[lefty32]

 stevestrike, on Aug 8 2007, 11:53 PM, said:

...but you obviously have a hard-on for them...

Technically, you're the one with the hard-on for them, I've got the flaccid/droopy one for them.

[akanacl]

Golftec as the evil empire..LOL

Golftec is fine.  It's just golf lessons.  I'm 6 lessons into a 15 lesson program.  Its been great, and has identified a couple of major power leaks in my golf swing.  The computer program and sensors are great at identifying swing and timing faults.  I've had two instructors, both well known, great local players.  These are good guys, great players, with good intentions, who want you to get better. And they believe in the program.    I'm following the program.  I'm not good enough to outsmart a PGA pro yet...lol  If you're that good, where you don't need to follow a Pros program and advice, you shouldnt be taking lessons.  

The bottom line for me is the simplicity.  You have a clear roadmap of your setup, swing and timing. Immediate visual and statistical feedback on every swing.  For me its a huge acceleration of the learning process.  

ps-  I imagine most people go into lessons (not just Gofltec) with preconceived notions of "what I need to work on".  And then the Pro fixes something completely different, which was the true culprit.

Edited by akanacl, 09 August 2007 - 05:42 PM.

[hoganfan924]

 akanacl, on Aug 9 2007, 06:36 PM, said:

ps-  I imagine most people go into lessons (not just Gofltec) with preconceived notions of "what I need to work on".  And then the Pro fixes something completely different, which was the true culprit.

This is a great point.  Probably everyone who's ever taken lessons has been guilty of this to some extent.  How many students will go in and say "I need help with my driver," as if somehow they employ a completely different swing with it?   If you can't swing a driver, what makes you think you swing a PW well?  The driver will just magnify your error, that's all.

[TheCapedAvenger]

Just thought I'd pitch in here. The "inferior pros work at golftec because they can't get better jobs" bit is bunk. Pros work at golftec for several reasons:

1) Structure. They get a set working day, set days off, and vacation time. Try getting that in a club pro job.

2) Full time teaching. No sheperding the ladies member-guest, no working the shop "for a little while" which turns into peak hours.

3) Upward mobility. Golftec is the fastest growing employer of pga professionals in the country, by far. Instead of waiting for joe pro to kick it or retire, you can get your own store in a year or two, max.

I know this because I was offered a job at golftec and ended up pursuing a job in equipment instead. Had I wanted to go into full time instruction, I would much rather have taken a Golftec job than an assistant pro gig.

As with everything else, I'm sure the quality of instruction varies with the instructor (duh). My local one in Vista, CA is great. The manager is awesome and the pro's are helpful. I never feel like I'm being railroaded or sold something I don't want.

Your mileage may vary.

Edited by TheCapedAvenger, 09 August 2007 - 06:01 PM.

[stevestrike]

 Solutions Etcetera, on Aug 9 2007, 12:42 AM, said:

I'm sorry but your arguments and justification for this are absurd. And you aren't doing Golftec any favors by defending their business policies... in fact I am a whole lot more ticked off now than before your last post.

*Yawn*  I bet you're one of those guys who thinks that if a product with a 1-year warranty fails and must be replaced, the replacement product should carry and additional 1-year warranty, and not just the first year purchased with the product.  Am I right?  Be angry all you want, but you don't understand how business works, or plain English contracts for that matter.  He bought FIVE lessons.  He paid for FIVE lessons at the stated FIVE lesson price.  This is pretty simple stuff.

[MisterMizzy]

I took one and it was alright.  I'm very much a one planer, which puts the hands a little deeper on the backswing than a two plane swing...that being said, the guy automatically started teaching me two plane fundamentals, when it should have been blatantly obvious that I'm a natural one planer.  As for comparison to professional swings side by side, it's all fine and good, but there's only one thing that really matters and that is the flight of the ball.

[ApexGrind]

 stevestrike, on Aug 9 2007, 06:55 PM, said:

 Solutions Etcetera, on Aug 9 2007, 12:42 AM, said:

I'm sorry but your arguments and justification for this are absurd. And you aren't doing Golftec any favors by defending their business policies... in fact I am a whole lot more ticked off now than before your last post.

*Yawn*  I bet you're one of those guys who thinks that if a product with a 1-year warranty fails and must be replaced, the replacement product should carry and additional 1-year warranty, and not just the first year purchased with the product.  Am I right?  Be angry all you want, but you don't understand how business works, or plain English contracts for that matter.  He bought FIVE lessons.  He paid for FIVE lessons at the stated FIVE lesson price.  This is pretty simple stuff.

Jees, why didn't I think of that? Want 5 lessons, buy the gold star 3 year plan and cancel after getting my 5 lessons at 1/2 price... These things just don't come to mind. I believe I would read the refund/cancelation terms on anything over a couple of hundred though.