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removing cork and lead powder from a shaft


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#1 MarkRimell

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:48 PM

is there an easy way of doing this so I don't have to remove the shaft?.....


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#2 ronsc1985

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:36 PM

There exist 48 inch drills with which you can drill out most of the cork and probably all of the powder from the butt end. I don't know if these drills are available in a size that will fit down a typical graphite shaft. The one I had was about .25 inches in diameter and was fine for steel shafts.

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#3 Golfrnut

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 03:47 PM

Golfworks sells the 47" bits that will work.  As mentioned above, don't know about graphite, but hopefully no one has powder/corked graphite shafts anyway.

http://www.golfworks...W1045_A_cn_E_21

Between that and the grip access tools, you can remove the powder/cork without removing grips.

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#4 Strolf

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:38 PM

Letís say I can remove the grip. Do I still need to drill out cork?  Could I put cork in Without epoxy to test weight?

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#5 Nessism

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:52 PM

Places like Lowe's sells 4' sections of steel rod.  Grind a flat point like a screwdriver on one end, drop the rod down the shaft, and then chuck up the other end in your drill motor and chew the cork out.  As far as epoxy on the cork is concerned, I'm doubtful that the epoxy stays on the cork as it goes down toward the bottom of the shaft; most of the epoxy gets scraped off as the cork goes down into the taper.

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#6 Carvallo Golf

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 04:55 PM

View PostStrolf, on 11 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

Letís say I can remove the grip. Do I still need to drill out cork?  Could I put cork in Without epoxy to test weight?

I just pour the raw powder down, tap to ensure its all the way down, then carefully measure MOI/SW, adjust if necessary.  Play around with lead tape before you get to the weight matching to see how the MOI reacts to a gram on the hosel.  You can extrapolate how the cork(or anything else you stick down there) will affect the MOI/SW.

Personally, I ignore the cork...it weighs F A.

Edited by Carvallo Golf, 11 January 2018 - 04:58 PM.

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#7 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:19 AM

Does anyone actually still use epoxy on the corks?   Seems pretty pointless to me.

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#8 BigBod

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:34 AM

View PostStuart G., on 12 January 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

Does anyone actually still use epoxy on the corks?   Seems pretty pointless to me.

No and never have, the cork is such a tight fit you need a ramrod to ram it all the way down to the hosel.

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#9 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:16 AM

View PostBigBod, on 12 January 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 12 January 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

Does anyone actually still use epoxy on the corks?   Seems pretty pointless to me.

No and never have, the cork is such a tight fit you need a ramrod to ram it all the way down to the hosel.

Agree.

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#10 Carvallo Golf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:30 AM

I weighed 10 corks, total weight was 1.2g.

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#11 augustgolf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:34 AM

Lighter than popcorn farts
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#12 Strolf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:21 PM

View Postaugustgolf, on 12 January 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Lighter than popcorn farts
:taunt:

I'm really struggeling with this one...I can't seem to nail a swingweight down perfectly and am always over.  When I add a weight to the hosel to get an idea of how much tungsten to add, and then test it out (I put grip and lead weight of grip tape on SW scale) The SW always comes up heavier when finished, and lighter before the grip goes on?

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#13 Stuart G.

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:36 PM

If the SW changes between just before the grip is added and after, then there are a couple of possibilities.
  • You are using the wrong amount of lead weight for the tape
    • generally 1 layer of tape is about 1/3 of a sw pt so that is about the change you should see when removing that weight and keeping the split grip on.
  • there is a length difference between the split grip install and the actual grip install
    • Is the split grip the exact same grip model you are using?  (does it have the same grip cap size?)
    • it could be the actual grip wasn't installed all the way (sorry just have to be complete)

Edited by Stuart G., 12 January 2018 - 01:38 PM.


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#14 Strolf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:50 PM

View PostStuart G., on 12 January 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

If the SW changes between just before the grip is added and after, then there are a couple of possibilities.
  • You are using the wrong amount of lead weight for the tape
    • generally 1 layer of tape is about 1/3 of a sw pt so that is about the change you should see when removing that weight and keeping the split grip on.
  • there is a length difference between the split grip install and the actual grip install
    • Is the split grip the exact same grip model you are using?  (does it have the same grip cap size?)
    • it could be the actual grip wasn't installed all the way (sorry just have to be complete)
I thought about that, and started putting the actual grip I was using on the rail just below the shaft on the scale.  The Auditor ProShop scale has a little ledge to place the grip on.  could this be an issue?

Also, how can I get weight back out once the grip is on?  I can't find an efficient way.

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#15 Strolf

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:51 PM

Anyone ever use Tungsten Putty for Pinewood Derby Cars as if you were using a tip weight?  Thinking of doing that.  Allows me to have more weight vs. brass, but customize amount easier, and no shaft extension.


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#16 Stuart G.

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:34 AM

View PostStrolf, on 12 January 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

I thought about that, and started putting the actual grip I was using on the rail just below the shaft on the scale.  The Auditor ProShop scale has a little ledge to place the grip on.  could this be an issue?

Yes.  If the swing weight scale "see's" a different playing length (not accounting for the added length of the grip cap).

View PostStrolf, on 12 January 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Also, how can I get weight back out once the grip is on?  I can't find an efficient way.

There are tools to help work with the tungsten powder and cork though the hole in the grip.  I've never used them though so can't comment on how well they work.

https://www.golfwork...-saver/p/SAVER/

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#17 Carvallo Golf

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:18 AM

View PostStuart G., on 13 January 2018 - 04:34 AM, said:

View PostStrolf, on 12 January 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

I thought about that, and started putting the actual grip I was using on the rail just below the shaft on the scale.  The Auditor ProShop scale has a little ledge to place the grip on.  could this be an issue?

Yes.  If the swing weight scale "see's" a different playing length (not accounting for the added length of the grip cap).

View PostStrolf, on 12 January 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Also, how can I get weight back out once the grip is on?  I can't find an efficient way.

There are tools to help work with the tungsten powder and cork though the hole in the grip.  I've never used them though so can't comment on how well they work.

https://www.golfwork...-saver/p/SAVER/

The grip saver tool works great.
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#18 Stuart G.

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:30 AM

View PostCarvallo Golf, on 13 January 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

The grip saver tool works great.

Thanks.  How big is the hole that it opens up to work through?

Edited by Stuart G., 13 January 2018 - 06:30 AM.


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#19 Carvallo Golf

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:35 AM

View PostStuart G., on 13 January 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

View PostCarvallo Golf, on 13 January 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

The grip saver tool works great.

Thanks.  How big is the hole that it opens up to work through?

Mine measures .360" I.D., it has a black plastic handle and has 2 markings "HUNT WILDE" & "MADE IN USA".  Im not sure where it was sourced, was purchased used from retired club maker.  It will pay for itself the first time you re-weight a set of clubs with grips on.  

I prefer powder over tip weights because of this...you can fine tune at any point, during a new build or modifying existing sets easily....using the grip saver tool.
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#20 augustgolf

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:45 AM

OK...really appreciate all the info that I find in this section of the forum. Having worked on clubs forever (it seems) I can say that I love to continue to learn.

And, maybe this isn't the right place to ask the question....maybe it is.  Here goes:

When adding lead power down the shaft, either during the rebuild/re-weight, or after, I completely understand the concept of getting the swing weight correct.

What I can't seem to get my head around is the fact that where the weight is in the club head end of the actual club affects the performance of said club.

We all know that older clubs (much older) tended to have longer hosels, effectively bringing the sweet spot closer to the heel of the club. By design, shortening the hosel allowed weight to be distributed further out along the club head towards the toe, effectively bringing the sweet spot closer to the center of the face.

With today's ability to manufacture heads with sliding weights, we also know how/where the weights are placed (in metal headed woods, anyway) will effect ball flight, but swing weight stays the same, I assume, since the weight is still the same relative distance from the fulcrum of the scale. I know that when I use lead tape on the backs of irons, its placement will effect trajectory, so I would assume that it would also have some effect on where the optimum position for contact would be.

Doesn't placing a weighting substance, whether it be lead powder or tungsten putty, down the shaft, effectively place the sweet spot closer to the hosel for that particular club?

I appreciate the fact that this action will make all swing weights equal, but it would appear to shift the position of the sweet spot for that particular club relative to others in the set.

For me, and my limited abilities and capacity for feel, I would assume this difference is so minute that it isn't detectable, but then again, I can't tell if there is one extra layer of grip tape under my right hand as opposed to my left.

Maybe it's my OCD....

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#21 Golfrnut

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:41 PM

View Postaugustgolf, on 13 January 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

OK...really appreciate all the info that I find in this section of the forum. Having worked on clubs forever (it seems) I can say that I love to continue to learn.

And, maybe this isn't the right place to ask the question....maybe it is.  Here goes:

When adding lead power down the shaft, either during the rebuild/re-weight, or after, I completely understand the concept of getting the swing weight correct.

What I can't seem to get my head around is the fact that where the weight is in the club head end of the actual club affects the performance of said club.

We all know that older clubs (much older) tended to have longer hosels, effectively bringing the sweet spot closer to the heel of the club. By design, shortening the hosel allowed weight to be distributed further out along the club head towards the toe, effectively bringing the sweet spot closer to the center of the face.

With today's ability to manufacture heads with sliding weights, we also know how/where the weights are placed (in metal headed woods, anyway) will effect ball flight, but swing weight stays the same, I assume, since the weight is still the same relative distance from the fulcrum of the scale. I know that when I use lead tape on the backs of irons, its placement will effect trajectory, so I would assume that it would also have some effect on where the optimum position for contact would be.

Doesn't placing a weighting substance, whether it be lead powder or tungsten putty, down the shaft, effectively place the sweet spot closer to the hosel for that particular club?

I appreciate the fact that this action will make all swing weights equal, but it would appear to shift the position of the sweet spot for that particular club relative to others in the set.

For me, and my limited abilities and capacity for feel, I would assume this difference is so minute that it isn't detectable, but then again, I can't tell if there is one extra layer of grip tape under my right hand as opposed to my left.

Maybe it's my OCD....

Swing weight can actually change as the weight is positioned from heel to toe as you get either farther or closure to the fulcrum.  Same reason why it's mare than 2g to move SW a point on wedges and less than 2g to do it on a driver.  Not talking a drastic amount, but it can be measured.

As far as CG movement, depends on a few factors like starting head weight, heel/toe length, where the CG position originally was, etc.  For most weight additions, yes, it's fairly bridgeable as the 1-10g or so will not move the CG a really noticeable amount.  If you start talking 15g+, then yes, you are getting to the point where the CG can move a little bit.

Edited by Golfrnut, 13 January 2018 - 10:42 PM.

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#22 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:28 AM

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 January 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

As far as CG movement, depends on a few factors like starting head weight, heel/toe length, where the CG position originally was, etc.  For most weight additions, yes, it's fairly bridgeable as the 1-10g or so will not move the CG a really noticeable amount.  If you start talking 15g+, then yes, you are getting to the point where the CG can move a little bit.

Sounds a bit conservative to me.  With Iron heads (which start out much heavier then say a driver head), I would have said 20-25 gm would be needed before there was any noticeable change in c.g. location.  But that's said w/o doing any actual calculations.

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#23 bbjr

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:33 AM

View PostStuart G., on 14 January 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 January 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

As far as CG movement, depends on a few factors like starting head weight, heel/toe length, where the CG position originally was, etc.  For most weight additions, yes, it's fairly bridgeable as the 1-10g or so will not move the CG a really noticeable amount.  If you start talking 15g+, then yes, you are getting to the point where the CG can move a little bit.

Sounds a bit conservative to me.  With Iron heads (which start out much heavier then say a driver head), I would have said 20-25 gm would be needed before there was any noticeable change in c.g. location.  But that's said w/o doing any actual calculations.

I believe there are some posts from Tom Wishon floating around where he talks about testing that he has done on this, and according to his tests it takes 25g added to the hosel of irons before even the most sensitive of players can begin to detect a difference in feel and/or ballflight.

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#24 2putttom

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:38 AM

View Postaugustgolf, on 13 January 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

OK...really appreciate all the info that I find in this section of the forum. Having worked on clubs forever (it seems) I can say that I love to continue to learn.

And, maybe this isn't the right place to ask the question....maybe it is.  Here goes:

When adding lead power down the shaft, either during the rebuild/re-weight, or after, I completely understand the concept of getting the swing weight correct.

What I can't seem to get my head around is the fact that where the weight is in the club head end of the actual club affects the performance of said club.

We all know that older clubs (much older) tended to have longer hosels, effectively bringing the sweet spot closer to the heel of the club. By design, shortening the hosel allowed weight to be distributed further out along the club head towards the toe, effectively bringing the sweet spot closer to the center of the face.

With today's ability to manufacture heads with sliding weights, we also know how/where the weights are placed (in metal headed woods, anyway) will effect ball flight, but swing weight stays the same, I assume, since the weight is still the same relative distance from the fulcrum of the scale. I know that when I use lead tape on the backs of irons, its placement will effect trajectory, so I would assume that it would also have some effect on where the optimum position for contact would be.

Doesn't placing a weighting substance, whether it be lead powder or tungsten putty, down the shaft, effectively place the sweet spot closer to the hosel for that particular club?

I appreciate the fact that this action will make all swing weights equal, but it would appear to shift the position of the sweet spot for that particular club relative to others in the set.

For me, and my limited abilities and capacity for feel, I would assume this difference is so minute that it isn't detectable, but then again, I can't tell if there is one extra layer of grip tape under my right hand as opposed to my left.

Maybe it's my OCD....
let us know how it turns out
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#25 Golfrnut

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:38 PM

View Postbbjr, on 14 January 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 14 January 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 January 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

As far as CG movement, depends on a few factors like starting head weight, heel/toe length, where the CG position originally was, etc.  For most weight additions, yes, it's fairly bridgeable as the 1-10g or so will not move the CG a really noticeable amount.  If you start talking 15g+, then yes, you are getting to the point where the CG can move a little bit.

Sounds a bit conservative to me.  With Iron heads (which start out much heavier then say a driver head), I would have said 20-25 gm would be needed before there was any noticeable change in c.g. location.  But that's said w/o doing any actual calculations.

I believe there are some posts from Tom Wishon floating around where he talks about testing that he has done on this, and according to his tests it takes 25g added to the hosel of irons before even the most sensitive of players can begin to detect a difference in feel and/or ballflight.

You would have to read thru the comments, but heís made the remarks before using about half that amount.

http://wishongolf.co...river-distance/

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25

#26 bbjr

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostGolfrnut, on 14 January 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

View Postbbjr, on 14 January 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 14 January 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 January 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

As far as CG movement, depends on a few factors like starting head weight, heel/toe length, where the CG position originally was, etc.  For most weight additions, yes, it's fairly bridgeable as the 1-10g or so will not move the CG a really noticeable amount.  If you start talking 15g+, then yes, you are getting to the point where the CG can move a little bit.

Sounds a bit conservative to me.  With Iron heads (which start out much heavier then say a driver head), I would have said 20-25 gm would be needed before there was any noticeable change in c.g. location.  But that's said w/o doing any actual calculations.

I believe there are some posts from Tom Wishon floating around where he talks about testing that he has done on this, and according to his tests it takes 25g added to the hosel of irons before even the most sensitive of players can begin to detect a difference in feel and/or ballflight.

You would have to read thru the comments, but he's made the remarks before using about half that amount.

http://wishongolf.co...river-distance/

Thanks for the link.  I tried to find the thread where he mentions 25g and it was here: http://www.golfwrx.c...e-should-i-add/ in posts #8 and #10.  After reading again, he is specifically talking about woods in this post and not irons, but given that woods are typically lighter and larger in volume than irons, I'm surprised that less weight would be required to shift the CG in an iron.

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#27 Golfrnut

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:14 PM

View Postbbjr, on 14 January 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 14 January 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

View Postbbjr, on 14 January 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

View PostStuart G., on 14 January 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

View PostGolfrnut, on 13 January 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

As far as CG movement, depends on a few factors like starting head weight, heel/toe length, where the CG position originally was, etc.  For most weight additions, yes, it's fairly bridgeable as the 1-10g or so will not move the CG a really noticeable amount.  If you start talking 15g+, then yes, you are getting to the point where the CG can move a little bit.

Sounds a bit conservative to me.  With Iron heads (which start out much heavier then say a driver head), I would have said 20-25 gm would be needed before there was any noticeable change in c.g. location.  But that's said w/o doing any actual calculations.

I believe there are some posts from Tom Wishon floating around where he talks about testing that he has done on this, and according to his tests it takes 25g added to the hosel of irons before even the most sensitive of players can begin to detect a difference in feel and/or ballflight.

You would have to read thru the comments, but he's made the remarks before using about half that amount.

http://wishongolf.co...river-distance/

Thanks for the link.  I tried to find the thread where he mentions 25g and it was here: http://www.golfwrx.c...e-should-i-add/ in posts #8 and #10.  After reading again, he is specifically talking about woods in this post and not irons, but given that woods are typically lighter and larger in volume than irons, I'm surprised that less weight would be required to shift the CG in an iron.


Can only speculate, but I'm assuming it's due to the higher MOI of the driver head since he is talking about the gear effect and head rotation.  Irons being much easier to rotate due to the offcenter hit when not in line with the CG.  The CG would still move in the driver, but the higher MOI would prevent the same amount of rotation that you would see with an iron.
TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI
Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB
Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
Callaway RAZR MBs 4-PW w/ i95 Steelfiber
Callaway MD3 50* & 54*/58* PM grind
Odyssey MXM 1W

27

#28 Stuart G.

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 04:27 AM

Interesting discussion but kind of a moot point unless you are starting out with an excessively light set of heads.  Even 15 gm added to an iron head will typically make the SW unmanageable.  And even if not, the effect of the results due to the SW change will by far dominate what will happen to the results compared to what any change in c.g. might cause.

Edited by Stuart G., 15 January 2018 - 04:30 AM.


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