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Manual de la Torre Method


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#1021 juststeve

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 04:41 PM

I'm not sure about swinging "as fast as you can", but the rest is very good.

Steve


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#1022 The Pearl

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:26 PM

Yes, fair enough steve.

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#1023 oukeith

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 08:37 AM

In fairness, Manuel did talk about arm speed in the forward swing in his book.  But the details in how he communicated that are always important....

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#1024 juststeve

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 07:48 AM

Arm speed is a good thing but not the only good thing. Also important is quality of strike and control of distance.  In my experience swinging as fast as you can is destructive of quality of contact and distance control.  Manny was never one to privilege distance over ball control and accuracy.

Steve

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#1025 juststeve

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 07:36 AM

View Postfallline, on 22 January 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

What was the intent when Manny used this club with students?   Was wondering juststeve if you knew his lesson on this.  It sure does look like he may have been into optics from player point of view.   Did he make the club?  

Attachment IMG_0100.jpg

He's illustrating what it means to swing the whole club toward the target, not just the club head, and helping the student feel that motion.

Steve


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#1026 oukeith

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 09:29 AM

Question.  I read somewhere that Manuel didn’t “teach” shaft lean at impact.  Is that the same as him not believing in shaft lean at impact.  Wondering if he thinks shaft lean is good, but doesn’t want the student hung up on trying to attain it.

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#1027 juststeve

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 10:11 AM

View Postoukeith, on 23 January 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

Question.  I read somewhere that Manuel didn't "teach" shaft lean at impact.  Is that the same as him not believing in shaft lean at impact.  Wondering if he thinks shaft lean is good, but doesn't want the student hung up on trying to attain it.

Kind of a complicated question.  Manny didn't "teach shaft lean", that is true. In fact he suggested that you "make it your intention to return the club to its address position at impact.  That is my intention but that isn't what happens in my swing, or in the swing of anyone who swings the whole club, in the direction of the target, using both arms, in one continuous motion.  When you do that,as Many taught, because of the speed of the arms, you arrive at impact with the hands forward of where they were at address and the shaft leaning forward.  In other words, forward shaft lean is a consequence of doing what Manny taught, not what Manny taught.  

Manny didn't explicitly teach things that were automatic consequences of what he explicitly taught.  Shaft lean is one of many examples.

Steve

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#1028 oukeith

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 06:07 PM

Thanks, Steve.

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#1029 delfam

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 02:08 PM

Steve,

Any swing aids or drills you recommend to get the feel of the swing down? I feel I'm making progress but would be nice to have a way to confirm that.

Obviously swinging with feet together is great, but wasn't sure if you or Manual would recommend anything else.

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#1030 juststeve

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 03:04 PM

View Postdelfam, on 24 January 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

Steve,

Any swing aids or drills you recommend to get the feel of the swing down? I feel I'm making progress but would be nice to have a way to confirm that.

Obviously swinging with feet together is great, but wasn't sure if you or Manual would recommend anything else.

My recommendation not Manny's.  Try the Whippy Tempo Master.  Only a true swinging motion will work.

Steve


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#1031 delfam

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 09:27 AM

Steve,

Yeah that seems like a pretty good idea to learn to swing the whole club, I'll look into it.

I have the Orange Whip already, is that similar and would work or is it totally different if you know?

Thanks,

Edited by delfam, 25 January 2019 - 09:50 AM.


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#1032 juststeve

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 11:49 AM

I have an orange whip use it to keep flexible but you can't hit balls with it.  You can hit balls with the Tempomaster, but only if you swing it.

Steve

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#1033 EdStraker

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 09:03 PM

I came across the following podcast where Manuel was interviewed regarding the golf swing:

https://www.golfsmar...-focused-swing/

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#1034 marcwhu

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 12:11 PM

View Postjuststeve, on 25 January 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

I have an orange whip use it to keep flexible but you can't hit balls with it.  You can hit balls with the Tempomaster, but only if you swing it.

Steve
Steve, have you ever posted your swing on here? I'd love to see it.

Edited by marcwhu, 29 January 2019 - 12:11 PM.


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#1035 baudi

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 02:31 PM

A question here about small drawings/diagrams of the swing circle and the club which are prevalent all over the book.
I hope these sketches are just a abstract. To me, the shaft parallel to the ground at p6 and p8 are next the toe line and next the heel line are key.

How did Mr de la Torre think of these positions?

Edited by baudi, 29 January 2019 - 04:38 PM.


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#1036 juststeve

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 04:14 PM

Baudi:

Manny regarded the swing as a circle,or at least nearly a circle. He was keen on geometry and told us that the horizontal cords of a circle are parallel to each other and in this case parallel to the target line as well.  As you suggest p6 and p8 are most important, but Manny also paid attention to the position of the club at the end of the back swing. He would look to see if the club was across the line or laid off to an excessive degree.

Don't make the mistake of thinking he was teaching positions. He believed if properly swung the club would move through these positions.  Without conscious effort on your part.  If it didn't he would  offer correction to the swing usually in terms of restoring balance between the hands or arms  ..  

Steve

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#1037 oukeith

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 10:29 AM

View PostEdStraker, on 28 January 2019 - 09:03 PM, said:

I came across the following podcast where Manuel was interviewed regarding the golf swing:

https://www.golfsmar...-focused-swing/

Seemed like an awkward interview.  I wouldn’t think the host is a believer....

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#1038 marcwhu

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:19 AM

Just bought the book. Any tips on how to get the most out of it?

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#1039 Golfbeat

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:22 AM

View Postmarcwhu, on 01 February 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

Just bought the book. Any tips on how to get the most out of it?

Read it.

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#1040 SirFuego

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:56 AM

View Postmarcwhu, on 01 February 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

Just bought the book. Any tips on how to get the most out of it?

From personal experience.  Read it a few times.  DON'T assume that his method really just comes down to "swinging the club".  That's a huge part, but as someone who has been a hip slider his whole life, his concepts on weight distribution and staying centered are just as, if not more, important.

Also, realize that most of his teachings came before launch monitors, pressure plates, etc.  That is not intended to discount his method, but rather to put it in perspective.  Launch monitors and pressure plates might give you exact numbers that "prove" certain things MDLT says aren't technically 100% correct, but they are close to the proper feeling one should have in a good swing.  In many ways, this can be better than trying to hit certain numbers on a launch monitor.

Edited by SirFuego, 01 February 2019 - 10:02 AM.


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#1041 juststeve

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 03:57 PM

 SirFuego, on 01 February 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

 marcwhu, on 01 February 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

Just bought the book. Any tips on how to get the most out of it?

From personal experience.  Read it a few times.  DON'T assume that his method really just comes down to "swinging the club".  That's a huge part, but as someone who has been a hip slider his whole life, his concepts on weight distribution and staying centered are just as, if not more, important.

Also, realize that most of his teachings came before launch monitors, pressure plates, etc.  That is not intended to discount his method, but rather to put it in perspective.  Launch monitors and pressure plates might give you exact numbers that "prove" certain things MDLT says aren't technically 100% correct, but they are close to the proper feeling one should have in a good swing.  In many ways, this can be better than trying to hit certain numbers on a launch monitor.

I'm not sure what you are referring to, Sir.  Manny did not teach a one universal way to swing the golf club.  He was fully aware that they were very good golfers who swung in different ways and launch monitors and  and force plates would reveal that they were swinging differently.  He didn't need launch monitors and force plates to know what they were doing, and that it wasn't what he was routinely teaching.  His eyes told him that.

What do launch monitors and force plates show you that Manny had wrong?

Steve

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#1042 chiva

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 04:20 PM

 marcwhu, on 29 January 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

 juststeve, on 25 January 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

I have an orange whip use it to keep flexible but you can't hit balls with it.  You can hit balls with the Tempomaster, but only if you swing it.

Steve
Steve, have you ever posted your swing on here? I'd love to see it.

Yes he has and it is REALLY good!
OB and water hazards you flunkies

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#1043 marcwhu

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 06:23 AM

 chiva, on 01 February 2019 - 04:20 PM, said:

 marcwhu, on 29 January 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

 juststeve, on 25 January 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

I have an orange whip use it to keep flexible but you can't hit balls with it.  You can hit balls with the Tempomaster, but only if you swing it.

Steve
Steve, have you ever posted your swing on here? I'd love to see it.

Yes he has and it is REALLY good!
Is it on this thread? It would be worth looking through the whole thread to find it😂

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#1044 marcwhu

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:18 AM

First under par round since committing fully to MDLT, 69 (-3) while not hitting the driver well at all. Super sold on this at the moment.

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#1045 juststeve

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 10:11 AM

 marcwhu, on 05 February 2019 - 04:18 AM, said:

First under par round since committing fully to MDLT, 69 (-3) while not hitting the driver well at all. Super sold on this at the moment.

Great round!  Now I'll paraphrase Manny and give you a bit of advice.  Now that you know what to do, and you know that when you do it it works, your task is to do it better and more consistently, not to look for something else to do.  You will one day have a crappy round.  When you do its not because the method suddenly stopped working, its because you didn't execute.  Persevere with what you know works.

Steve


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#1046 EdStraker

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 02:54 PM

 juststeve, on 05 February 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

 marcwhu, on 05 February 2019 - 04:18 AM, said:

First under par round since committing fully to MDLT, 69 (-3) while not hitting the driver well at all. Super sold on this at the moment.

Great round!  Now I'll paraphrase Manny and give you a bit of advice.  Now that you know what to do, and you know that when you do it it works, your task is to do it better and more consistently, not to look for something else to do.  You will one day have a crappy round.  When you do its not because the method suddenly stopped working, its because you didn't execute.  Persevere with what you know works.

Steve

Steve's advice is spot on. Yesterday my round started off well and then I stumbled for a couple of holes. When the problem occurred, I knew the problem wasn't with the method but that I didn't execute properly for the 2 hole stretch. I had lapsed into trying to swing the club with my shoulders and upper arms instead of with my hands. After initiating the backswing with my hands and getting the club over my right shoulder, the swing was back in the groove again.

My putting is much more consistent along with my pitching. The part I need more work on is chipping; I am reviewing this chapter from Manuel's book and DVD.

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#1047 delfam

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:16 PM

Steve,

Was reading John Hayes book and say a drill Manny recommend on at the end of the forward swing, to rest the club on the left shoulder so it was parallel to the target. I think it was to remove tension in the arms and to decrease the hitting motion, but I'm not really sure.

Do you have any insight on the drill, how to do it, and what it's trying to accomplish?

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#1048 juststeve

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:13 AM

 delfam, on 06 February 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

Steve,

Was reading John Hayes book and say a drill Manny recommend on at the end of the forward swing, to rest the club on the left shoulder so it was parallel to the target. I think it was to remove tension in the arms and to decrease the hitting motion, but I'm not really sure.

Do you have any insight on the drill, how to do it, and what it's trying to accomplish?

Sure.

Thing 1:  Any time the club is horizontal it is parallel to the target line.

Thing 2:  Relaxed arms in the forward swing.

To arrive at the position Hayes describes do thing 1 and thing 2.

Steve

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#1049 marcwhu

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 03:14 PM

Steve, don't know if you ever encountered this, but I've developed a tendency of hitting the 3 wood very high on the face off the tee. Any idea what could be causing this?

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#1050 juststeve

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:34 AM

 marcwhu, on 09 February 2019 - 03:14 PM, said:

Steve, don't know if you ever encountered this, but I've developed a tendency of hitting the 3 wood very high on the face off the tee. Any idea what could be causing this?

You are either teeing the ball to high or not swinging the club allowing the ball to get in the way of the swinging club head.

Steve


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