Fast Play At Fairfield CT Muni

Well I have never played here, but I like the concept. Obviously saying it and enforcing it are two different things but let's hope this is a trend for all courses!

I'm not sure what you are elluding to? The article that the link takes me to says "be prepared" but nothing about enforcing any slow play policy?

Mike

Okay, I see the Fast Play announce. It's on the right side of the page in the box. Here's the article;

On Monday March 12th, 2007 the Fairfield Golf Commission approved a new Pace of Play Policy for H. Smith Richardson Golf Course. (official release)


THE PROBLEM OF SLOW PLAY AND WHAT WE’RE DOING ABOUT IT

H. Smith Richardson is a wonderful golf course that we’re always trying to improve. If there is one complaint, though, that players make above any other here and at many other golf courses, it is slow play. In fact, we’re afraid that many golfers just don’t come to our golf course because they have to plan a five hour round, which is way too much time for most people. Besides, golfers know they play better when they get into a rhythm – and how annoying it is when a long wait ruins it.

So we’re going to try a new policy. It won’t affect most of our golfers because most of them know the little things you have to do to keep a group moving but for those players who have trouble keeping up a reasonable pace we’ve devised a plan to help them keep track of their pace of play.


A Tee Time For Every Hole

When a group tees off between 6 a.m. and 2 p.m. they will be given a Pace of Play Card that will list the times that they are to be on any given tee. It’s sort of like a tee time for every hole. We believe the front nine should take no more than 2 hours, 8 minutes to play without rushing and allowing for events such as lost balls and errant shots. Similarly, a group should be able to get around the back 9 in 2 hours and 7 minutes. Which means golfers can count on a round taking, at most, a little more than 4 hours, not five hours or more.

If one of our rangers spots a slow group, he or she will firmly but politely ask them to get back on time according to their card. If, a couple of holes later, they are still off the pace (no doubt causing a backup on the course), they will simply have to pick up their balls and move up immediately to behind the group in front of them in order to alleviate the delays behind them. If even this fails to convince them to stay on pace, we’re going to have to insist that they stand aside and let the groups behind them play through.

A group that is obviously not sufficiently able or willing to maintain our defined pace of play will have their names added to the Slow Play List. Of course, we’re happy to give the group pointers on faster play (taking enough clubs when leaving a cart or taking fewer practice swings, for example). But in an extreme situation, when the same player merits the Slow Play List two more times, we will have no alternative but to refuse the offending golfer a tee time before 2 p.m. for one month.

We Want To Encourage Brisk Play

This way, a very slow player – for whatever reason – will not be able to ruin the rounds of everyone else. In fact, we want to encourage a culture of brisk, but not rushed, play.

We believe most players will welcome this policy because it will encourage shorter rounds of golf and put on notice those people who really are not entering into the spirit of the game. We hope golfers will soon get used to the reasonable pace of play and by not having to wait so long between shots, will have better scorecards at the end of the day.
Pace of Play Policy 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's great to see a club finally take a stand against slow play. It's an example for others to follow. BUT, and it is a big but, it remains to be seen how effective this new stratergy is.

good theory, but will it really be enforced. i see too many times that the marshall never comes around (played 45 holes today and never once saw a marshall) or the marshall just waves as he drives by. even if you say something to them they node and just go off. seems like there are a number of "marshalls" who have this position so they get free/reduced green fees, but do nothing.

i guess we will have to go play else where...come on Gurdy!

I think I can speak for most, if not all, DoG/HP/Club Managers on this one. Please take the time to fill out comment cards or just stop by and give your opinion about slow play and how the marshal is or is not helping to improve the situation.

Your opinion matters.

If you see a marshal too busy hawking balls to be bothered to keep track of pace of play - by all means tell us, we are concerned. Pace of play if the main reason people are leaving the game. Poor pace of play can lead to you the consumer going elsewhere which ultimately will lead to me getting fired, so believe me I am concerned about pace of play. Even at a private course.

IMO - it should never take more than 4 1/2 hrs to play a round of golf.

I play a local course that must have 30 marshals. I have never once seen any of them enforce slow play. This course has times on each hole description giving the max time to play each hole, and they still end up with 4.5-5 hour rounds every Sunday.

I have noticed a trend that for whatever reason the loudest critics of slow play are the slow players. It's funny how that works.

I recently played a resort course in Myrtle Beach and the ranger was way to pro-active about keeping people moving. We weren't the fastest group that day because we had some players who weren't able to keep the ball in play, but except for a few holes we were right on top of the next group. When we did lag slightly the ranger was up our business. It was terrible and really uncomfortable. I felt like he was doing us a favor by letting us play his course.

I'll probably go back to the resort but if I see that ranger on the course I will leave.

I don't have a problem with 5 hour rounds mid day on a weekend. People should expect it. I know I do when I get out late in the day. I have no problem getting around in 3 hours when I tee of near dawn.

So many things in this modern world are rushed and forced golf should not be one of them.

With all due respect, you may be speaking for most/all "DoG/HP/Club Managers" but it's mostly talk. As a group, Course Marshalls are the most useless group of employees. If they worked at McDonalds, even with all the automated equipment, the fries would be burnt. And the management rarely does anything about it.

Maybe at your club you have a productive policy but out in Northern California, hardly any course has a successful pace of pay policy. In fact, within 100 mile radius I can think of one course that gets players moving and keeps them moving - Pebble Beach. Their success is purely economic. Faster play means more tee times and their enforcement troops are the caddies who are looking for faster loops.

It's great the course above is taking a stand, hopefully it works out, but as a muni course, I wouldn't be a dollar on their success.

That's their best policy. It sure isn't pace of play. PB is the absolute worst. 5-6 hr rounds are commonplace at PB. Weekends....forget it. The caddies spend more time taking photos of their respective groups than fixing divots.

As a past assistant professional at Stevinson Ranch and hp at Greenhorn Creek I respectfully disagree.
At Stevinson we had issues when we opened, no doubt. We took action and, at least when I was there, we had 4 1/4hr rounds of golf. At Greenhorn, I set the policy. You would never play longer than 4 1/2 hrs.
I cannot speak for their respective PoP now, but it was a major concern when I was present.

PoP was a major concern at the private club I was at before I left for TX.

Why don't you try speaking to the GM/DoG before you disregard the advice. Of course I can't vouch for everyone, but a DoG/GM that wants to keep their job will listen.

Try it

5 rounds at Pebble in the last two years, never has one been over 4:30. No one plays 6 hour rounds at PB, it's an outright lie to claim otherwise.

That's great you made sure pace of play policy was adhered to at your courses, the industry could use a lot more managers like you. You did try to speak for most and claim they will listen so everyone should make their opinions known. I agree, they will listen, it is after all polite and good customer service to do so, but the fact still remains, the huge majority of courses (90+ %) that I have played only listen and do nothing about it. For example, last week I played Presidio and while sitting at the 10th tee I notice the timing sheet for marshalls in the window of the cart. The sheet has this lengthy pace of play explanation and the rules along with a chart for the marshall to note your pace. What a joke, not a single marshall was spotted the entire front 9 while the pace was ridiculous on top of one of the holes being damaged on a par 3. I commented as much on the sheet on the 18th hole where the first marshall was spotted. I assure you, if I go back to play there in a month, the pace will be just as slow.

Like I said, I agree, all of you guys listen. But the acting on it is a totally different matter and there are not enough people as interested as you are.

BTW, I don't count Stevinson, it's 125 miles away. Great course. How many rounds/year are played at Stevinson?

its funny, i played 36 holes today - one with the "assistant pro" and another with a marshall. the assistant pro was ambivelant about getting the group in front of us to pick up the pace. the marshall was slowing us down. there is no reason it should take 8 holes for a two some to catch a threesome that is going slow because of slow play in front of them.

i can't believe i am going to say this, but i miss the cold weather. i loved going out with the temp being 39* when i teed off at 7:30 and getting to 46* for a high and more or less having the golf course to myself. i was playing 36 holes in less than 7 hours - usually pairing up with a group on the 2nd 18. one day i played 54 holes in less than 9 hours. i played two highly regarded area courses this weekend and it took over 9 hours just for 36 holes.

heres the fix for slow play

people who are slow need to just let the faster groups play through, and we need to create more forward tees and encourage people to use them

Everybody says "I'm not a slow player" then there should be no problems with slow play

but there is

When I take my annual trip to Florida I go out with my wife, my Father in Law, and my Grandfather in law. Let me put it simple, the three of them are absolute HACKS

My father in law shows some potential at the possibility of breaking 100 with a little bit of practice, and he and I play a lot together. He's not terribly long off the tee(average drive 150-160) and ok from tee to green, but all he does at the range is hit driver, he struggles with his iron play, and as for short game, forget it. I've seen him putt from one side of the green back to the other and then back again. He's improving but still has a few blow up holes

My wife just likes to go out and be out on the pretty golf course, wear a cute outfit, and most times won't even putt she'll just pick up in the fairway. She hates teeing off in front of people and if you added up all of her strokes plus penalties from improving her lie, her score is probably closer to 200 then 100

Then theres my Grandfather in law, has more money then he knows what to do with lives in Florida, but NEVER goes out and plays a real course unless we take him. He's older so his distance is almost non-existent, he has poor iron play since he still tries to hit 3 and 4 iron instead of fairway woods or hybrids, short game runs hot and cold and he can't adjust to the faster green speeds at the resort courses vs the greens at his retirement park where they just cut the grass really short. His problem is he'll hit 2-3 balls OB or into the rough, then he'll top or chunk 4-5 shots from the fairway, then blade a wedge over the green, chunk the next shot into the bunker, take 2 more to get on the dance floor, and then 3 or 4 putt. After each shot he'll offer up a long winded explanation of what he did wrong on each shot. The best is when he'll finally get it in the cup he'll look up at my wife who's doing the scoring and announce thats a 6

Now, I've been out on some 6 hour rounds with them, when a faster group comes behind we let them play though, I realize my group is slow. I do have to say that marshal's coming around and yelling doesn't really help anything. In fact it makes things worse because my grandfather in law is a stubborn SOB who thinks "I've paid my money to be out here on the course I can take as long as I like". Wrong attitude, but at 85 years old I'm not going to change it and neither is a marshal.

Now what WOULD help IMMENSELY is a forward set of tees. The three of them ALREADY play from the reds and they're still looking at 430 yard Par 5's, 315 yard par 4's and 140 yard par 3's and thats on Lake Buena Vista which is the second shortest course at WDW. The only one in that threesome who has any chance playing the reds successfully is my father in law. My wife and GF in law have NO chance, its going to take them at least 5 just to get to 100 yards on the par 5 and they're hitting DRIVER on the par 3's and still are short of the green.

My solution, create a forward tee box making par 5's 300-350 par 4's 200-260 and par 3's 80-130. My wife would play that in a heartbeat, she LOVES playing the par 3 courses around our house in NY because she's not intimidated by the length. And she'd drag her grandfather up to that tee(he wouldn't know the difference anyway) No forced carries. It would make life simpler for EVERYBODY involved.

lets face it the three of them are closer to the average golfer in this country then anyone on this board. I'm sure there are some on this board who would tell me that they just don't belong on a "real" course and should just stick to the par 3's. But that ignores the fact that the majority of golfers are being KILLED by the lengthening of courses, they don't have the distance to play 7000 yards.

Put a forward tee in and encourage people to use it, I almost GUARANTEE that round times will get shorter

IMO slow play is the death knell of a golf club. I know I left the golf club in my neighborhood because they booked in all of these Golfpac travel foursomes and the rounds where brutally long. They would not do anything about it when mentioned and guys like me would just walk off the course after playing 5 holes in over 2 hours while tanning between shots.

It seems the resort or Muni type courses have this problem allot but we also run into it at our TPC facility which is where the "better players" in our town all seem to play. IMO you dont have to be a single didgit to move quickly you just need to be courteous of the players around you. I am a naturally very fast player (If I am by myself or a few of my other fast playing buddies we can get around 18 holes in 2.5 hours if no one is road blocking) so sometimes it really is frustrating.

I agree the Marshalls are worthless usually when it comes to moving the pace of play along. Lots of driving around and waiving. I support this clubs new tactic and I hope it catchs on!

RG

I'll second this post above. I look forward to a round of golf and being on the course for 5 hours isn't bad. 4.5 hours if great, but I think a lot of courses are over booked to get the most income.

I bet rounds would be a lot faster if people actually kept score... well I should say followed the rules and kept score.

That would probably help cut down on the amount of drivers people hit, and thus cut down on the amount of errant tee shots that people have to go look for.


I think the main problem is people emulate what they see on TV. They see the pros play every tee shot with their driver. So they hit every tee shot with their driver, even if they have no hopes of hitting a fairway. Then they get to the green and need to try to read the putt from three different angles like they were putting for their paycheck. They's probably have just as much luck at picking the right break if they closed their eyes.

If private clubs are really interested in speeding up play then they should give more free clinics for their members. Maybe the pro or assistant should make it his job to play in a foursome at least with every member every year.

its easy to play quick, even if you can't break 100...

-pick the ball up after you are 4 shots over par on a hole

-if you hit 3 ob off the tee, play from where your buddy is

-if you can't find your ball after 3 min., drop one where you think you hit it...don't even take a stroke if you know you didnt hit it ob or in the water

-don't play on saturdays

playing at the local dog track or even a $100 round is NOT playing on sunday at Augusta...you know you suck...get out of the way


and to the scratch guys out there...if its crowded, again, its not U.S. Open...two quick practice swings, then hit...1 min. to read a putt


and to the guys that like to walk...go find a nice trail in the woods or buy a treadmill...its saturday on a golf course...i know, i know, you are just as fast as guys riding...imagine how fast you would be riding...like a 15 min. round

Totally miss informed. A guy by himself walking vs one guy in a cart... cart wins any day. Simple math... man travels at 5mph... cart travels at 15mph.

But two guys walking will almost always beat the same two guys in one cart. Inevitably the way this cart management works out is two guys tee off and leave the tee box together. The reach the first guys ball. First guy gets out second guy waits in the cart. First guy measures his yardage, selects his club, practices and then hits his shot. After he watches his shot, replaces his divot, cleans his club, and gets back in the cart they both progress to player two's ball. and the same scene replays. Now its the first guys turn again, only after sitting for 5 minutes he's forgotten which pine tree his ball ducked behind... Now if they were walking they would have left the tee together and proceeded to their respective balls and not had to wait on one another.

Its classic "Tortoise and the Hare".

Its this kind of thinking that got US golf in the cart addicted state. I hate it! I hate it that courses treat walking as a privilege. The USGA should ban mandatory cart rules.

Golf is not a motorsport.

Communion with the Pope

This is simply wrong. See the Pope's statistics. Yes a cart can be faster when a course is empty.

even if you hit it to opposite sides, drop the guy off and go to your ball...

are you really telling me that its faster for a guy to find his ball walking than a guy driving a cart? you assume the worst about the two guys in the cart

what if the walker cant find his ball...he has to walk around looking for it, not zooming around in a cart...what if he under estimate how far he hits the ball (i do it all the time)...a walker in clunking around 50 yds behind his ball, walking around in circles...he can quickly go up 50 yards and check to see if his ball is up there

i am not misinformed on anything...if you want to play fast, you will play fast...if you don't care and are taking your time, rounds take 6 hours

Of course you can play faster in a cart, as I mentioned above - on an empty course. The problem is most courses are not empty. This is what The Pope is saying. He is not talking about you and me. He is talking about statistical averages which includes all golfers. Guys who post on websites probably are not average!


The Pope seems to agree with both of us. As with many things in life, the problem is the people!

After today's marathon known as the Monday qualifier for the Nationwide tour, 5 hour rounds don't seem so bad. All day I wanted to scream "will you putt already!". Instead of a day older, I think I lost a year off my life.

If I had the physical game, I doubt I could ever have the mental game to stay focused in those conditions. Just curious threesomes or foursomes?

I walk the course for many reasons. The first is the money. At my local course, it costs $29 for a cart, which is more than the cost of the dam round!!! Its ridiculous that I can play 2 rounds and get a bucket of balls for that price of golf + cart. I also like that I can move away from the other players in my group if they are annoying or I just need to think to myself as Im walking to my ball. I hate it when courses have mandatory cart at certain times and then you can walk at 2PM!! Thats just crazy, especially if the course is crwoded sometimes I wont get 18 in because it gets dark. I think that walking should be encouraged all the time and when there should not be a cart path only rule for carts. It should either be cart or walking because I played this course last year and they had a path on one side only and youd have to walk all the way to the other side to get to your ball and carry 1/2 your bag because you cant tell what type of shot you need from 40 yards away.

As my late Father-In-Law used to call them, "T*ts-on-a-bull Rangers". They're useless.

Your assuming people know the proper way to utilize a golf cart, which for the most part they don't. Golf cart ettique is one of the most over looked parts of golf. The drop off and go method will definitely pick up pace, but only used by everyone. It only takes one twosome playing, "drive, shot, drive" to ruin everyones day.

We hear the term ready golf used all the time in pace of play discussions. Sharing a cart severely hinders ready golf. Independent motion of players is much more apt to playing ready golf. It each player had their own motorized cart then we would really see pace pick up.

Your comments about looking for a ball make me wonder if you ever have played golf. It is by far easier to find a lost ball on foot than in a cart. For one when walking you can follow your direct path of the tee box. Your attention is not diverted to all things golf cart in between the time you hit your shot and arrive at the suspected area. You also notice yardage markers as you walk up the fairway that give you a clue to where an missguided ball may have come to rest. Most of the people I have seen usually exit the cart once they arrive at the area where they think the ball has landed or they drive at a slower than walking pace. And usually there are two people in the cart looking for one ball.

I liked that Pope of Slope website. One thing his data shows is that most people consider themselves to be fast golfers. This means that for the most part golfers think they are doing the right things. They think the are playing up to speed. Its not a question of desire its a question of proper training. The difference between walking and riding is efficiency of movement. When walking a player will take every shortcut possible to limit the amount of walking he or she has to do. Its human nature. With a cart a player is more likely to rome the course because it doesn't require more energy from that player to do so. What would be an interesting study would be distance covered while walking vs. distance covered while driving.

Like I said its the tortoise and the hare. People think they can drive all over creation and wait for other players because they have a cart that goes 15 mph. Meanwhile the walker makes constant efficient movement consistantly over the whole 18 holes.

How many times have we all stood on a tee box while two carts are parked next to each other on one side of the fairway. Then to have 4 guys emerge from the woods and have one of the carts travel back across the fairway and play a shot. We've all had this play out infront of us, and its ths most irriating scene to watch. You'll rarely see a walker trek across the fairway to help a playing partner look for a ball, at least not until he has played his shot. Its just not logical.

I firmly feel golf would be a better sport if carts were reserved for the handicap.

i can't think of a time where i willfully played a round longer than 4 1/4 hours.

i simply cannot stand slow play.

there's been days after 5 PM where i could take a cart out and play a round short of two hours, easy.

Pace of play is ruined by the worst three words in golf:

CART PATH ONLY

If you ask a superintendent, that's their favorite three words.

Nothing worse than the person out for a "quick 9/18". They generally abuse the golf course with their golf cart thinking "well, it's only one cart and I want to play fast". Driving their carts close to the tees and greens. One of the most difficult tasks of any golf professional is to enforce club policy (especially at private clubs). I have been placed in that position by more members out for a "quick 9/18" than any other scenerio. The "it's only one cart" attitude member is usually one and the same when it comes to complaining about conditions and slow play. Partially because if you do play the late afternoon quick 9/18, you generally play very quickly (or you drop 10 balls which is the #2 most likely club policy enforcement situation I've been thrown into ). When you are playing a 4hr round it feels like you are out there forever. In other words, your perception is 18 holes of golf takes 2hrs 30min max.

As for the Monday qual/Open qual..........Bataan Death March without the bayonets and samurai swords is how it feels......tragic.