To anyone that watched the final round of todays match play. Did you see the segment about Tiger Woods' streak? Near the end they mentioned about how when Byron Nelson had his streak the fields were thinned out because of the war and how his first tournament win during the streak was a team event. I'm just wondering if anyone else noticed the same thing.

I saw that piece. Really unfortunate jab at Nelson's record.

even if the first one was a team event.. it's still 10 in a row. Yeah they took a stab.. 11 is 11 and if Tiger cant do it (he cant) then no one will.

it seems like Tiger is golfs "golden boy", and as fun as it is to watch him do what he is doing, i think they often try and make him seem even more amazing than he is because Tiger sells golf more than anyone in the game ever has. You can't compare now and then, 11 then was just as impressive as 11 now, look at all the advantages Tiger has over Byron. It is unfortunate that golf needs to promote the new faces over the old faces to sell tickets.

mike

I hate to be the "unwelcome" post at this thread but someone has to say it. Everything that jimmy roberts said in the final round is completely true. I think it is much easier to win 11 in the 1960's than 7 today because of the competition and like jimmy said "the fields." do not get me wrong, byron was truly a force in the game of golf. I just think that what tiger did was more impressive in the modern day than what byron accomplished in the past.

I am inclined to agree in part. Golf was not nearly as accessible a sport in that era. The competition was not what it is now. That is why I don't think you can compare one to another. But 11 wins in a row is incredible and will always be one of the most impressive golf records.

True..if you are referring to Mickelson...with Tiger, his achievements match the "hype"..You don't make anything up with him. The records are right in front of you..unless you are in denial of course..


Thought they used the wrong language to describe Nelson's run but they were comparing the two runs, the impact of the war, Snead off the tour and Nelson's run. It was fair to point that out as much as it is fair to point that Tiger did not tee it up every week as Nelson did..

this coming from the guy who started the pro got it easy these days thread ??? Wow

Ok you play in the clothes that Bryon played in.. ties and thick clothing, with those irons and woods and that old ball or pretty long courses for those days...and greens you could not get them flat in those days. Golf course equipment has come as far as they equipment you play with everyday. Watch some old footage and see how hard these guys hit putts and watch them bounce all over the place. I'm not trying to take anything away from Tiger he's got all the skill and more important the mindset, but dont you take anything away from the oldtimers either.

Nelson won 11 in a row! Tiger does not tee it up only when the top 10 tees it up. With todays game were lucky to see the best in the world in the same field 10 times a year, much less eleven in a row. Also the greens and course conditions that Nelson played in were not as pristine as today so he had to play the course became another obstacle in itself. Tiger had a great run, I don't believe it was 7 in a row (due to losses in Europe), but still a great run.

I totally agree with this post. Its a shame golf commentators have to disrespect Byron Nelson to put Tiger on his heavenly pedestal, but I don't consider Tiger's run a streak in the first place because I think all full field events (INTL. INC) should be counted as part of his run.

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this coming from the guy who started the pro got it easy these days thread ??? Wow

Ok you play in the clothes that Bryon played in.. ties and thick clothing, with those irons and woods and that old ball or pretty long courses for those days...and greens you could not get them flat in those days. Golf course equipment has come as far as they equipment you play with everyday. Watch some old footage and see how hard these guys hit putts and watch them bounce all over the place. I'm not trying to take anything away from Tiger he's got all the skill and more important the mindset, but dont you take anything away from the oldtimers either.
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Keep in mind that the conditions were the same for everyone else and byron really had no REAL competition like tiger does every week. It doesnt matter what clothes players wear or how bumpy and inaccurate the green conditions were. Golf has changed and i believe that todays game is much more complex and intricate

Well said. And I will add...Nelson drove himself to tournaments, he didn't have a Gulfstream GV at his beck and call. So after a long drive, he got to play golf.

why?

It was a PGA tour winning streak. The events he played in internationally weren't sanctioned by the PGA..The British Open and PGA were...

It's funny that you guys are saying Nelson's record is being depreciated..and then swing out at Tiger's streak not being that at all..you guys are just haters...

[quote name='jdub123' date='Feb 25 2007, 07:39 PM' post='461481']
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this coming from the guy who started the pro got it easy these days thread ??? Wow

Ok you play in the clothes that Bryon played in.. ties and thick clothing, with those irons and woods and that old ball or pretty long courses for those days...and greens you could not get them flat in those days. Golf course equipment has come as far as they equipment you play with everyday. Watch some old footage and see how hard these guys hit putts and watch them bounce all over the place. I'm not trying to take anything away from Tiger he's got all the skill and more important the mindset, but dont you take anything away from the oldtimers either.
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Keep in mind that the conditions were the same for everyone else and byron really had no REAL competition like tiger does every week. It doesnt matter what clothes players wear or how bumpy and inaccurate the green conditions were. Golf has changed and i believe that todays game is much more complex and intricate
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today's game is Bomb and gouge.. nothing complex about that...[size=3]

and quit quoting.. you messed it up somewhere

Not at Hoylake or Medinah it wasn't.

Bob Hope..yeah

I just dont see the point of differentiating between PGA tour events and full field international tournaments. In Byron's day of course international play was not what it is today and thus I believe he played just about entirely in the US. If a player gets beaten in a full field event regardless of the tour I dont see how it can't interrupt a streak. No disrespect to either great players, but it is what it is.
just my .02
justin

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today's game is Bomb and gouge.. nothing complex about that...[size=3]
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It most certainly is not, take this week for example. If a player were not to place a fairway shot within a 10 foot spot on a green it would simply be a horrible shot. Nowadays players must be very accurate with everything they do. back in the 60's there were no 12 stimpmeter greens with false fronts that would drip into the water. Conditions and shot selection werent as important back then. Its not a bad way of playing the game it was just different.

ok 2 out of what... 30 something.. come on

what's a full field international event? Dubai? HSBC? Dunlop Phoenix?

yeah I was thinking of the other big events Tiger plays in sanctioned by other tours

Give it a week and Tiger will be on a new streak of most PGA stroke play events. Since the losses in Europe were in Europe, and the match play was match play............he still good to go for the most PGA stroke play events without a loss............right?

lol something tells me the fantastic golf channel coverage will spin it all this way....

you guys are way too sensible and objectional when it comes to Tiger..I do remember the Arnie army days however, people weren't this rational...
I dare say the way Tiger is treated on boards is how we treat soccer players from the other opposing team or country...you wouldn't think Tiger was American..i don't even see much pride in some of the posts in your own fellow countryman...is it because he is not Caucasian? Just trying to understand why fellow countrymen like you guys are so objectionable..on every board it seems like..very weird

dont bring the racecard in skink.. I dont (hopefully not) think it's that... Phil brings out the bad on alot of the boards too.. He's white.

I agree, race has nothing to do with any of this.

No one is denigrating Tiger here. I think many people respect golf legends, such as Byron Nelson, and take exception to the observations made by a T.V. commentator that marginalize records set in the past. Byron Nelson certainly earned respect as a player and more so away from the game of golf.

That's exactly right...you can't compare one to another. That was a different era, and Byron's record should and does stand on it's own merit. IMO a greater merit. No full swing coaches, no short game coaches, no sports psychologists, just pure determination and self confidence. Tiger sells and that's what the networks want.

so he is just a high achiever that people like to rip at? I would understand that if it he was all hype..some underachieving, overpayed sports persona..it just seems like everything he does is somehow..slighted mostly by fellow Americans. I find that rather strange...

Not sure who's ripping him, but I'm ripping the so called streak. Tiger gets more love on these boards then any other golfer, just look at phil threads and most are locked due him being ripped unjustly.

Would you like to know why? because he is the best golfer of the present time and i believe he will be the best to ever play the game. He is not something that will just come and go, he is truly something special. It certainly does make a difference in some situations that he has overcome racial adversity early in his life, and that makes his life an even better PR tool for many. He is truly a gift to the golfing world.

Gotta agree with everything here. Winning 11 for Byron would have been easier than anyone else winning 11 nowadays. Just look how many tours there are, tonnes of depth. JMO

my 2 cents-------comparing golf accomplishments from the 40's 50's and 60's to today's ones are a waste of time! there are tons of differences! technology and economical factors mainly. i know there are records but we are living in a revolutionary age of golf equipment! golfers back in those ages had to perform to make a living! these guys could live on endorsements alone now! just a few thoughts but i could go on and on!

This would be a valid point if only Byron played with goofy clothes, bad equipment, and on bad greens, and the rest of the fields back then had all the good stuff. Or if only Tiger was privy to the good greens and great equipment today and everyone else had junk to play with and putt on. It's all relative.

And I think Robert's was simply pointing out that there were circumstances surrounding Byron's streak, just the same as Tiger's detractors brought up the circumstances that surrounded Tiger's streak. It's only fair.

Thank you. I can't believe this is even a thread. Tell me one thing Roberts said that wasn't true. It wasn't even objectionable...much less a disgrace. I can't tell what anybody's upset about. Do you just not like Tiger? Are you mad because Roberts was talking about Nelson, who passed away? I mean it was all true...right?

If the first event in Nelson's streak was a team event (which was common in that era) maybe the arguement should have been used that Tiger's streak died at the Ryder Cup.

The entire problem is that you can manipulate the streak in any way you want, I imagine some dimwit writer (I'm thinking somebody on Cold Pizza) will argue that the streak is still alive because Match Play doesn't count.

Isn't the point that a lot of the field in Nelson's time that he set the record was participating at war and not as strong as it normally would be? That wasn't meant as a jab at Byron. I've heard that a hundred times over the years. I would think if that was not true that Byron had plenty of time to refute that statement.

If you are going to do a comparison, then you would have to say would Tiger win if a similiar portion of the field is missing that was missing the time Byron did his run. Who knows? Maybe someone else would step up and play well. You just don't know. I think Tiger could beat anyubody playing any conditions with any type of clubs or shafts as long as everyone else played the same conditions and had the same club restrictions.

Tiger is simply the best ever. Byron knows that his record was done during wartime and he didn't compete with a full field and he has heard that a thousand times and I am sure he is not offended one bit from that fact.

I think saying that Tiger has it easier because of the course conditions or today's equipment is ludicrous. It is an equal playing field today just as it was in Byron's time. That is like saying only Tiger is playing with the good greens and perfect sand in the bunkers. It is an even playing field. All the guys on tour have access to all the latest and greatest equipment and perfect course conditions. So it is absolutely no "advantange" when everyone is playing with the same opportunities. I do believe that the fields are deeper today. They are also much larger.

However, I don't think it does anyone any good to compare Tiger Woods to Byron Nelson. Or anyone else for that matter. It doesn't really accomplish anything expect get alot of people worked up. Lets simply appreciate the opporitunity to watch Tiger Woods and let Tiger be Tiger and let Jack be Jack and let Byron be Byron. Comparisons only waste our time. They also seem to raise people's blood pressure.

Yeah, but so did the rest of the field. The course wasn't any harder for Nelson than it was for the rest of the field. So while Tiger gets the advantage of better conditions and equipment.....so does the rest of todays fields. The variables are consistant.

There is no reason to take a jab at Nelson's record, that is just bush league. I mean Tiger "officially" hasn't won 7 in a row. The media has flipped and spun this "streak" just like they have for USC playing for or winning 3 straight national championships.

Then you get people like Johnny Miller 3 minutes after the match ends starts talking about how great Tiger is (we all know this) and how well he finishes and hwo deep he got in the match play event.......Um, excuse me if I am wrong, didn't tiger lose on Friday? Let it go Johnny, golf will be ok if Tiger is not on TV on Sunday,

All Byron did was tee it up in 11 straight and beat everbody who showed up. No reason to devalue his streak. Tiger doesnt need others (Jimmy Roberts) to make excuses for him not breaking every single record in golf. We all know he is from another planet (as far as golf talent goes) so let's just move on. He hasnt retired yet (at least to my knowledge) and more than likely he will own all the records when he does. Let's not hate, let's appreciate Byron and Tiger and forget all the comparisons from different eras.
Just my 2 bits.

the problem that I had with Jimmy Roberts report, was that I couldn't understand a word that he was saying, because he had his mouth full of something. Didn't know what it was, but I just heard mumbling.

I truly wonder if Tiger sits back and laughs at all of this butt kissing, or if he sits back and says that he deserves all of it.

anyways, I think the report was disrespectful to Byron Nelson. It did bring out great points about Tiger's ability, but in doing so it downplayed Byron's ability.

It seems as if the people who wrote the story figured that people would not remember who Byron Nelson was, so it was alright to downplay his abilities and accomplishment.

If we want to make it an apples to apples comparison, then have Tiger start driving to all of his tour stops and also play 11 in a row. I still don't accept the excuse that the fields were thinned out, it is just an excuse to degrade the accomplishment that Lord Byron obtained.

Tiger is a great player, but the media hyped it up too much.

This whole thing is so ridiculous. Most are hammering the media for making up this "Streak", meanwhile I've NEVER heard a media report in which they talked about the streak and NOT mentioned he lost in asia, dubai etc. I think the media fully understands that it was a PGA TOUR winning streak, and reported that truthfully. It's the public that is trying to mis represent the streak in their futile efforts to knock Tiger down a peg.

Apples and Oranges...



Byron's record is awesome...



Tiger's record is awesome...



Amen

Yes, I heard that also and I couldn't agree more! It was a discusting display of ignorance on behalf of the commenator(s).

P.S. What made you ditch the 690 MB's, you pured those things!

That's what's so laughable about it all. In one breath they are accusing Robert's of demeaning Nelson's records, then turn around and demean Tiger's streak and say he is hyped up too much..
Hey guy's don't worry..Tiger's just passing through the PGA. It will get back to it's homogenous self in a few years.

Nobody said Byron's streak was worthless or not incredibly impressive.

But even throwing out the differences in competition and the game itself, two things are true.

One of his wins was a 4-ball. He was half of that team, and it doesn't correlate to today's game.

The second is that regardless of how the field in general compared to fields now, half the field was missing back then due to the war.

Does anyone think you could replace half the PGA tour with good amateurs and not give Tiger an advantage?

I think Tiger's 8 with the non-PGA hiccups is about equal to Nelson's 11 against limited fields. Both mind-boggling, incredible accomplishments with a caveat or two.

both streaks are incredible in their respective times, as neither was even close to being matched by another player. The game then and now is much differerent, as in most other sports. What we have to do now is just sit back and appreciate what tiger is doing in todays game...its truly incredible and we should all feel blessed as golfers to be watching one of the greatest athletes of all time inprinting his legacy on our sport.

DCDeac, Tigers streak was great, but come on....Nelson played in limited field events.....so does Tiger! Every tournament tiger tees it up does not have the best field or the best players in them. Second is the desire to win (which I admire tiger for having), in Nelsons day the payouts weren't that great so players went for every flag to post as close to the lead as possible, today you lag a putt to get a good check. Tiger is tiger but don't count a win streak that has loses in it, that would be like saying I always par the 4th hole, except for the 4th holes at other course besides my home course.

Seems that you have forgotten that for many players, eleven wins is a career, regardless of the era. So Tiger didn't match the record -- find anyone else who has won 7 in a row!

I don't have records in front of me but I believe Hogan, Snead, Middlecoff, and the likes still played in some of those events.