after reading many different threads on this board......and through my own golfing experiences......do any of us really play golf by the rules anymore???

I consider myself to play regularly.....and I do have the fortune of playing at many 4-5 star rated courses.....

I also play with alot of "regulars" as well as I have played on one of the Amateur Tour's......

almost regularly or routinely on the first tee....its hit two and take the best ball.....

when your beat out on the hole....you get 5 and 10 foot putts

when you put it OB or in the hazard a time or two....you are carded for a bogey

I cant count how many times I have seen one ball off the tee....and another on the green....

not too mention rolling em in your own fairway.......

anybody ever seen somebody say they are taking their mulligan now

heck ive seen alot...and still dont think ive seen it all....ive seen practice swings in bunkers/hazards ( i wont even count laying clubs in them)

Ive seen people hit em OB and go and play like a hazard, but only take it a foot off the fairway and then drop till its setting up

at times when a round is over and I hear the folks tell each other what they shot....I think to myself I must have been in another group

I do tend to play in many skins and other friendly wager games.....and honestly, I will say that most of the times people hurt themself with their stated handicaps...but then again, they are the same people that get mad at those that can and do play to a stated handicap.....I cant tell you how many 6-7's ive played against that breaking 90 would be a good round.....and they get mad at the 15 for shooting 89

I use to think lift, clean, and place was for a rainy day......

Playing by the rules is the only way I've ever done it and the only way, in my opinion, to play it. Otherwise, why play?

I love the story in Harvey Penick's Little Red Book about the parents that brought their little boy for golf lessons and the father kept giving "gimmies" to his son. Harvey cringed and said his son would never know if he did well or not on the hole by taking the gimmie. Truer words were never spoken.

The worst is when I hit a great bunker shot stiff, and the person I play with hits my ball back to me with his putter. Maybe it's the way I was taught at a young age to play the game...but playing by the rules shouldn't be how the game is "supposed" to be played. It IS how it's played.

spot on......

unfortunately, rarely do I see golf played by the rules but rather as you describe......

True.

I've seen it all as well. Teeing it up in the fairway, recording an 89 when 107 was actually shot. Maybe since it's such a relaxing, friendly game, laziness sets in. Who knows?

Depends on the round really. In tournament play, obviously yes I follow the rules completely. Playing with a few friends, if someone is having a hard day of putting and are losing a good bit, I dont mind telling them that 3 footer is good if it makes the day more enjoyable. The basic rules though (hitting from the tee if you go OB, playing the ball where it lies unless plugged, etc..) I follow no matter who or where I am playing.

i think the rules have become more flexible as golfers have become less skilled. there are a few good true golfers left at public AND private courses. but i believe that most golfers want to make the game as easy as possible, if that means bending the rules then so be it.

their handicap from cheating will kick them in the rear whenever they get themselves into a real tournament situation anyways, they are only hurting themselves

To your first point, I think it's more a matter of golf simply being enjoyed by more people, period, and rules are "understood" from playing partners, and social golf experience. And most are just as happy NOT to look to deeply into the unknown, as simply playing as they do see fit is sufficient humiliation.

A willful ignorance, if you will.

I agree with you 100% on the second point, and am always amused at the outraged 'sandbagging!' comments because how man turn in scores not *quite* played under the Rules?

I play by the ball down 100% of the time.

No gimme's
No mulligans
No fluffin'

yes yes, i agree on the sandbaggers.

members at my course have somehow reverse sandbagged. there are a select few, whom will shoot a 79, and card a 69. i simply do not get it. these guys then play in the first club tournament every year. shoot that 79, and therefore with their +2 or +3 handicap will net an 82!! . then for the rest of the year they go into hibernation. quite humorous if you ask me. however we also have the members who sandbag like none other. we all know how this goes. i thought it was bad, until i looked at one of the scoreboards this summer and saw a member net a 48! i was just stunned, still kind of am stunned on how that just flies under the radar

I am all for playing by the rules..When I am playing a serious round, practicing, or tournament. But playing diehard by the rules is not the only way to play as some have stated above. When I am playing a friendly enjoyable round with my family or close friends there are exceptions. If there is no money involved and its just fun you can bend the rules and make the game much more enjoyable for the people in the group that golf isn't an obsession, like it is in my case, but a hobby. We play inside the leather pick it up, lift clean and place within a clublength, don't mess up a club move it where you can hit it, one mulligen per side, etc. But like I said that is just how we play to make the game a little easier for the less skilled to make it more enjoyable. I am a 4 handicap and I always play straight up by the rules, but that isn't the only way for the game to be played.

At my club, even in a casual round I find people play by the rules except for the gimmee. Depends on who you are playing with but 3 footer is often given.

Of course most rounds have a small wadger on them and we often play low net on the weekends with a $5 buy in. With "big money" on the line every has to lay by the rules.

OneBowTie, I am one who "actually plays by the rules of golf". And so devoted to doing so that I feel compelled to point out that it is not against the rules to lay a club down in a hazard. See decision 13-4/0.5.

I would not enjoy my game if I violated any rule. I do not care a whit if my playing companions violate any rule they choose to, as long as we are not competing. At the same time I get very frustrated by people who get offended at my playing by the rules. It seems to me that my behavior makes them feel uncomfortable with their own actions, and they attempt to free themselves of this feeling by insisting that I join them in ignoring the rules. Sorry, not gonna happen.

I only wish those people were as liberal with my playing by the rules as I am with their violating the rules.

hard to play by the rules to the t given how the courses are so tightly packed.

I mean how many of us will go back to where we were after not locating a ball and hitting our shot + penalty stroke from there?

I've never seen that done on a recreational round of golf.

I am a believer in playing by the rules. I also hate gimmie putts, I don't consider a hole complete until hear the ball hit the bottom of cup. Sometimes I may offend my playing partners because after they say "gimmie", I tell them no thanks and I proceed to finish up.

I do think that some rules are often broken more than others, and the pace of play may be an issue. For example, the OP mentioned playing OB as if it was a hazard. Several times I have seen the debate about whether a ball is OB or did it stay in. Members of the group say "You should be good" and off the group goes. The ball was OB so instead of walking back to the tee box they drop. Too much time would be wasted by going back to the tee and slowing up the group behind. Now I know the whole situation could be avoided by just teeing up a provisional, but I believe that golf is a difficult game and if you just snapped one OB the last thing you want to do is take stroke and distance, especially when your buddies say your "good".

I don't condone it, in fact it happened to me during a tournament no less (I went back and re-teed and snapped another OB out of frustration), but that's the way it is.

I play by the rules every time I tee it up with the exception of tournament practice rounds...I will hit several putts, chips, and hit 2-3 approach shots per hole. That is the only time when I do not play by the rules. Golf is only golf when it is played by the established rules. Granted, some of the rules do suck, but they are there to be followed.

I agree. I play by the rules as best as I can, but since my course rotation consists a healthy dose of munis and most of my rounds come on the weekends, I don't have the benefit of re-teeing a lost ball, putting out 1-2 footers, and more than a minute or two searching a lost ball.

I generally agree, but I will say guys pick up in my group for ESC purposes.

Also, as a practical matter, if a lot of the guys I see playing actually played by the rules, it would result in an 8 hour round!

I have several friends who play by relaxed rules. When I occasionally played with them, I treated it as a practice session and would not play their game. Imagine, mulligans whenever you need them and giving yourself a gimmee on any putt inside of 5 feet! Yet, they keep score! This is not golf, it is cheating.
I don't have to make excuses why I can't play with them, they don't invite me to play or talk golf in my presence anymore. They say they are just out to have fun, and don't really care about the score. I'm too serious. For money, they say they would play differently, so they don't play for money. In conversation, they are all 10 strokes better than they really are. This group has the ability to turn in scores of 88-95 range, however, their cards are routinely 76-83.

I can see a rank beginner playing this way, so as not to hold up the better players. Not really playing, there is no score. If you can't break 100, this is what you should do on a crowded course.
It isn't up to me, but their futures in golf would be better far better served learning the basic fundamentals and practicing, before attempting to play the game. The game can't be enjoyable
keeping an accurate score of 110. It isn't much fun for the groups behind them either.

Sorry for the rant. I was invited to play at a fine course tomorrow. I declined. I'd rather play golf.

IMO golf is a fun game and people can play how they want. I've played in tournaments and i've played casual rounds, i'll take gimmes here and there, i'll move a ball off a root as to not damage my clubs (obviously only in the casual rounds). I don't have any reservations about doing it...it only hurts you to lie about scores as you end up giving more shots. I'm happy if my foursome is enjoying the game, that's all i really want

If playing by myself, I'm usually there to practice and try different shots. In those cases, I will sometimes do things against the rules - but I know it, and always record such a round as a practice round, not as a handicap round.

There are two specific instances outside of practice rounds that I will play outside the rules.

The first is when I'm on an extremely busy course, and I hit one off-line enough to where there is doubt as to whether or not it's actually OB. In those cases, to keep up the speed of play for those behind me, I'll go look for a minute, and I'll drop as closely as possible to the place where I reasonably thought the ball ended up, and take a penalty stroke. Yeah, I know, it's stroke and distance, but I'm not gonna hold up the course behind me for five minutes for that clause of the rules.

The other instance is when I go to play with my father. He's somewhat lax about some of the rules. Some examples: he'll drop on the same line no closer to the hole if he lands in hardpan. He also plays one mulligan per side, and we play two teeshots on the last hole of the day. When we go, it's more about fun - but any special rules he gets, I get too. The reason I don't worry about it is because a.) it doesn't go towards or against my handicap, because it was played outside the rules, and b.) since we're both getting the same perks, it's still a level playing field of sorts... so when I card a lower score than he does, I've still legitimately beaten him.

But I certainly won't shoot a 90 under those rules and then puff my chest out for shooting six under my handicap, because it didn't happen. And I would NEVER dream of playing by anything other than the exact rules if I were in a tournament situation, or something similar.

If you go to a golf course just to be outside and swing away with no concern for the game itself
than I sure don't find any problem in that, as long as you DO NOT hold up other groups.

But, if golfers engage in improving their lie, taking gimmies, taking mulligans, etc., that can only
be perceived as an effort to take less strokes. Being able to improve your game and therefor your
score while playing within the rules of the game is the most rewarding feeling that you can achieve,
IMO. Anything short of that will never bring anyone true satisfaction.

+1

I think most golfer are weekend guys just looking for a day of fun a relaxation with friends. Most are unaware of the rules.

Plus if we all tee'd up OB balls, rounds would take forever and you would definitely piss off the group or groups behind you.

On the first hole with my friends if we all have had no practice and its our first swing we usually take a mulligan on that very first swing of the day with no practice now thats only between friends.

Tournaments are obviously strictly by the rules.

We have to remember most golfers out on the weekend aren't die hards like some of us.

+1..... Also I give NO strokes nor accept them...

I happen to play by the rules other than the 2 footers being good but it never bugs me if someone else cheats (obviously assuming no wagers). I don't think about them cheating themselves etc, etc. For many golf is not a competitive sport but an outing. So what if they keep score who are they cheating? There are lots of people who have no interest in getting better at golf and whether they cheat by 5 or 10 shots in a round really makes no difference to me.

I dont think it has anything to do with laziness. I think most people enjoy being outside, with their friends, having a cigar and a beer, and "playing golf". They could give a flip about the rules. They are out there to get their minds off of work, kids, life's stresses, and have a good time with their buddies. I play by the rules, but I am one of the few of my regular "group" that actually does. Unless I am playing for money, it doesnt bother me in the least what someone else does on the course. Hell, I'll write down whatever score they tell me, regardless if I know it to be wrong, if that is what they want. If it makes them feel better to see a 100 on the card as opposed to a 125, why should that bother me?

In my experience there are a "several levels" of "playing by the rules".

1) Following all the 'significant rules' (like back to the tee for a ball OB/lost, no mulligans, play it down, etc). See #4 for an example of 'insignificant rule' (in general this is a 'rule breaking' that provides no scoring advantage to the golfer).

2) Following all the 'significant rules' but occasionally having to break one - particularly the case where a ball is UNEXPECTEDLY lost (and it happens unless you hit a provisional on every shot when you can't see your ball from where you hit your last shot). This is generally a pace of play thing and is 'particularly active' when you approach your posting score limit. When a course is backed up I am not going back to the tee on a casual round just because of what it implies to the groups behind me. Apply USGA Handicap Rule 4-2 and move on.

3) #2 but picking up 'trivial putts' (inside 15 inches)

4) Following all the rules period. I typically have two drivers in my bag (same clubs, different lofts) and make a decision on the range as to which one I am going to use that day. In casual rounds I will often not take the 15th club out of the bag (but I don't use it). Similarly I am not super careful about being absolutely sure that the ball that I have marked and put into my pocket is the same ball as the one I putt with (it will be the same brand/model). So I clearly don't fall in the category of "following all the rules period".

5) Rules are a guideline only - pretty much every one of them are broken at some point.

dave

Richard Silver, a noted Rules Expert, was invited to play at a friend’s club. Before teeing off, the other two players said they knew he was a big Rules expert but “We don’t play that way here. We are all out to have fun”

Richard nodded and his tee-shot on the first hole went into a fairway bunker. When he got there, he picked up the ball and tossed it into the fairway. The other players asked him what he was doing. He said he wasn’t very good out of the fairway bunkers and preferred to play from the fairway. They yelled he couldn’t do that. He asked why and they said it was against the Rules.

He said, “Oh, so we are using that Rule here. Which other Rules are we using?”

Depends, what are you playing stroke play or match play. Giving someone a putt during match play is part of the rules, most casual rounds I play we are essentially playing match play. It is not uncommon for there to be a low ball- low total game, individual games etc. going on, but most are match play format. The group I play in we created our own rule on gimmes that is strictly inside the leather on putts, just to cut down on the argueing and hard feelings. You could say this is cheating or whatever, the actual stroke play score never matters in our games though, just match play bets, skins etc. Would my handicap be any different if I were putting them all out? maybe but not by much, if anything it MIGHT be a little higher, but if I were to play striclty stroke play I would probably avoid more big numbers as well, so IMO it is a wash.

So other than giving people putts I always stick by the rules, play the ball down, unless the course is muddy and almost unplayable, lift clean and cheat from the fairway, just like the pros play under those conditions

Have fun, enjoy your round, golf means different things to different people, my advice to to find a group to play with regularly that has similar beliefs or goals when it comes to playing. Hell I played with a couple of club pros the other day and they were more liberal with giving putts than most people I play with, but again we had a match/skins game going not stroke play.

The one thing that does kind of freak me out is that I run across a lot of people who literally dont know how to play the ball down. Almost out of reflex they roll the ball over and improve thier lie on almost every shot even on a perfect fairway. To me the most basic rule of golf is to play the ball as it lies....

I really like this post! I do play in a match play format at times. The rules are different, We don't later refer to total score.

I absolutely disagree that it "takes longer" to play by the rules.

You can apply all the rationalization you want to but either you play golf by the rules or you play some other game that happens to use golf clubs and balls.

Because I have an older junior golfer at home I'm pretty versed on the rules of golf (except maybe the obscurities). Not that I sit at home and study the book, we've just seen most situations a million times.

From burrowing animals to casual water, and all the drop rules.

I don't find that my playing partners ignore many of them, they just make them quicker. On cart path they simply take a new stance and drop roughly where the would have (no closer) BUT they don't put tees in the ground and lay clubs.

For the sake of pace we also don't go back to the tee box on tee shot out of bounds. (which we discovered was OB upon inspection at the final resting point of the ball)

( I also don't think they would ever play a mudball - they would always "winter rule" that one - even in june )

Totally disagree.

It can take an unreasonable amount of time for some people to play by the rules straight up. And you would agree the next time you are on the course and there is a foursome of hackers in front of you. If they played by the rules everytime they hit it out of bounds or 4 and 5 putting every hole, and played the ball down everytime it would take 8 hours for them to complete a round. Especially on a busy day I don't know about you but I don't want to play behind that. But it absolutely depends on the skill level, and whether the game is a sport to you or a recreational hobby. It is a sport to me and play 3-5 times per week always by the rules, but that is not the case for everyone.

I really like the responses.....its interesting to see all the views and opinions......

and i must confess....I dont want to be labeled as a hypocrite....

from my past golfing enjoyments and experiences.....I think for many of us...its the old adage....WHEN IN ROME, DO AS THE ROMANS DO....

Personally, I try to play for the enjoyment of everyone around me without changing the spirit of the game.....

I have taken 2 balls on first tee

I have taken in the leather putts

I have laid a rake in trap

I do play triple bogey maxx

I dont agree with statements that it takes longer to play by the rules of golf....if you use common sense you can speed the play of golf up...IE.... provisional ball's....also I find that if people did putt out it would speed up their game tenfold....

I think that we have lost sight of the spirit of the game.....on certain occasions perhaps it is best served for all involved (your group and the course) to simply play a modified version of rules and simply forget about carding your round as a official round....

It is also not uncommon for many states to have a winter version or golf rules....meaning you can roll the ball in your own fairway.....

Slow golf is caused by slow golfers. Not because they are playing by the rules.

Both of my kids grew up playing various junior tours and competetive golf. When they got old enough to play with an adult or two, we were on the course one day and a close friend of mine rolled a put up on the lip and reached out with his putter and drug it back to himself. My daughter who was about 11 at the time looked at him and said, "Walt, arent you going to putt out?" The look on his face was absolutely priceless. Puts a lot of things in perspective that carry over to life.

I agree.... too many times do I see people addressing the ball and then doing a Furyk 4 or 5 times.....and on the green its almost comical to watch some of these guys reading and lining up their putts...OVER AND OVER AND OVER....

I think people watch way too much TV golf and don't believe in ready golf......

I'm all for playing by the rules, but I completely disagree that it doesn't take longer to play strictly by the rules. If you don't believe me, try playing on either the Golf Channel Amateur Tour or the eGolf Amateur Golf Tour. Most of the guys are pretty good golfers who know how to play quickly but our rounds still take 5 to 6 hours to play.

I do and have played on those tours..... and guess what, it isnt the rules that slow things down.... its the golfers who refuse to play ready golf....and the golfers who act like they are in the final group on sunday on PGA TOUR....

Played Hilton Head a few weeks ago, and it only took 4:15 to play saturdays round and 4:30 for sundays round... and this was the Egolf tour championship.....

I play pretty relaxed golf. I don't keep a handicap. To me, the rules that are important are those laid out and agreed to on the first tee to give everyone in the group an equal starting point. The worse thing is when a guy wins playing different rules than the rest of the group. It's kind of like playing in a scramble. That tournament defeats the purpose of golf with improving lies, etc. The thing is, the rules are set at the outset and you score the best you can according to them.

Depending on the group I'm with, the stroke play "rules" can be anything from strict by the book, to one mulligan a side, or even my favorite (with one friend) that if you find your ball in a hazard, it's a free drop. Stroke and distance on a ball that was thought to be safe rarely gets played, just drop three (or four, or whatever) in the area. It's kind of like playing a pickup game in most sports. The most annoying guy on the basketball court in a pickup game is the guy that calls every little foul and violation.

Now if I were to keep an USGA handicap, I would play and post rounds played according to the USGA rulebook.

Slow golf IS caused by slow golfers, but there are a number of reasons slow golfers are slow -- one of which is that they aren't especially good. Golfers who aren't especially good -- the majority of EVERYONE who plays golf -- lose a lot of balls in hazards, the woods, and so forth.

You seem to be deliberately contentious, if you keep maintaining that having these golfers play by the Rules of Golf wouldn't additionally slow things down. 5 minutes searching for a lost ball, returning to the tee (or location of original shot), spending another 5 minutes lookiing for THAT ball, stopping every few shots, to pull out the rule book...I shudder to think.

I have played golf with a lot of different people, recreationally, over the last 20 years, and I can think of maybe two people that *truly* could turn in the round as completely legitimate under the Rule of Golf. Seriously.

The simple fact is the Rules are too difficult and too complex for the Common Man's skill set.

bumping the ball off roots or rocks to save your club, I don't have a problem with as long as you don't improve your shot, i.e. you still have that tree directly in front of you, etc. I'm not talking about a 6 foot bump though...maybe a couple of inches max.

Putting: no gimmies. Can't tell you how many times I've seen 1 foot putts missed due to laziness...walk up, tap it with your club to get out of everyone's way and it moves 3" instead of the 8" needed to hole it out. My friends and I have solved this problem by having a bet based on putting. money in the pot for every 3 putt, lowest number of putt strokes at the end collects. It's kept us from the "gimmies".

OB: 1st shot even appears to have a chance of going OB, you have to take another from the tee. 2nd shot goes OB, then we relax the rule and consider it a hazard in order to speed up pace of play. We only do this when another group is waiting behind us or coming up on us. If the course is wide open, you keep hitting off the tee until you're not OB....

The interesting point here is that you could keep a very valid, "audit-proof" USGA handicap and absolutely NOT play strictly by the RoG.

You can pick up a ball on a hole (for any reason other than handicap index manipulation) and post a valid score (see rule 4-2 in the USGA Handicap Manual). Heck you can even skip a hole (assuming the purpose is not handicap index manipulation).The scores that you post may well not be 'valid' under the RoG (in particular, ESC adjustments). But (per the Handicap Manual) that is OK - the RoG issues are a separate (but obviously related) matter.

IMHO, very few golfers play strictly by the RoG on every round. In my experience there are a bunch of golfers that play 'by the rules' according to the USGA handicap manual. And even if you "play by the RoG", things can get ambiguous. For example, you are lying 1 on a par 3, 14' from the hole. Your match play opponent has just pumped two balls OB and concedes the hole. Your RoG score is 2. Unless you are one helluva putter, that isn't the score you should post. Sometimes the Handicap System leads you to post higher scores vs. lower scores. I'm not sure what folks who say "I always play STRICTLY by the RoG" do in this situation.

dave

ps. I once asked our local Carolina's Golf Association guru how he handles posting and conceded putts in Match Play (a common competition for him). He said that he keeps track of conceded putts longer than 3', and will adjust his score before posting if he believes that he would typically generate a score higher than his RoG score.

IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYING BY THE RULES!!!

They play slowly because they are SLOW PLAYERS.

Not to thread jack, but how did you do down there? I heard the courses were set up on Saturday ridiculously difficult and that apparently led to high scores. I qualified but decided not to go...went to play the RTJ Trail courses with some friends.

Chill out man, it's just a friendly dicussion no need for the shouting. Back on topic, I disagree, I can 100% guarantee and am willing to bet any amount of money that if I play two rounds by myself, one where I play strictly by the rules and one where I take 2 foot gimmees, don't go back and re-tee on the occassion of a lost ball, etc. the "cheating" round will be quicker.

Im sure you had a great trip of your own on the RTJ TRAIL..... you missed a great Finals..... It looked leading up to the event as if weather was going to be a factor..... but the weather was perfect.....

I shot 85 on sat and 88 on sunday...... I actually played better then my scores reflect.... but on sunday after about 11 holes with a great round going..... I had two hozel rockets and was afraid to swing a iron after that and played very protective.....

I did play in the friday skins game- and wish I hadn't.... it played like a scramble and didn't do much for practice.....the courses I did play were in good shape and they had the greens rolling very fast.....there were not many unfair or extremely tough pin placements in the B flights, just a couple

I completely agree that slow players play slow (primarily) just because they are slow players. The reasons for this vary by player.

What logic leads you to believe that slow players do not play more slowly when strictly following the rules? I am assuming here that the typical slow golfer, when skimping on the rules, takes fewer strokes than required, not more.

dave

what you are describing may very well be true as for time wise.....

however, if you simply re-tee'd a provisional on any errant shots off the tee and putted out 2 footers, your time difference would be minimal and most likely plenty acceptable to any groups playing behind you.....

I have witnessed many beginner golfers or even just high handicappers who play and keep up with fast players....... and have likewise witnessed some low handicappers that are simply SLOW players......

there is no reason to address and readdress EVERY single shot or putt..... and some players are just inherently slow by indecisive club selection and will change clubs many many times on numerous shots..... we have all seen players way over read a green......these are just a few reasons for slow play....not rules

do you...

1. really want the guy in front of you spending 5 minutes looking for a lost ball?
2. really want the guy in front of you to walk ball to the tee and hit again on an OB?
3. really want the guy in front of you to walk back around the water hazard to drop?

careful for what you wish for.