The other day I was helping my playing partner look for his ball about five yards off the fairway. With all the random leaves around we couldn't find it for the life of us. Then a maintenance guy drove by with a leaf blower, quickly exposing the ball from under a leaf.

Made me wonder if it would be legal to bring a blower with you. I know that if you moved the ball by blowing around it there would be a penalty, but I don't know if it would be legal to power up a small gas blower to help you if the ball didn't move. I presume you can use other artificial mechanical devices to help you look, such as the magnification/telescope aspect of a laser range finder, but I have no idea whether it would be legal to use a blower to help you find your ball. Don't get me wrong, I can clearly see the antisocial aspect of going to your cart, strapping on a gas blower and then firing that noisy baby up, but I wonder if it's against the Rules Of Golf?

Maybe I can market a golf-specific blower? It could also be used to blow dry sweaty golves in the summer!

23-1/1
Loose impediments may be moved by any means, except that, in removing loose impediments on the line of putt, the player must not press anything down (Rule 16-1a).

But beware of 'undue delay'.

HaHa, if you come up with an electrical blower, with an attachment to charge it with the battery on the cart, I'll be your first beta tester.

Kevin

This is great. I'm off to the patent office and then over to Golf Pride to get them to design a suitable blower grip. (The grip is the key to excellent leaf blowing.)

The blower would be funny... Maybe clicgear could make an attachment.

If you're as sure as one can be that the ball is under a leaf in an area covered by them, aren't you allowed a drop with no penalty at the spot you are reasonably sure the ball should be in? Rule 24-3?

No, leaves are not obstructions, they are loose impediments.

A temporary local rule may be enacted for specific areas of the course, but a blanket leaf rule that so many people employ is not within the rules of golf.

Kevin

Sorry, took me awhile to find this one. It used to be a specimen local rule, now it's a decision under The Committee.

Lmao

I thought it was angular momentum or something.

We play the "leaf rule" at my club. Any ball lost anywhere near a pile of leaves is assumed to be lost in the leaves and you get a free drop...yada yada. Augusta National we are not.

Man, just when I thought I was on to something... Thanks

That is very common here in Minnesota as well...

Kevin

Please! Someone! Call the USGA! This lackadaisical attitude toward the rules of golf is going to ruin my business!

Obviously the notion of having a gas leaf blower to clear an area to look for your ball isn't really possible - but I was thinking that one could have a folded up, thick carboard-like fan tucked into their bag that would work well to get a decent amount of leaves out of the way - unless they were wet to a large degree.

Don't know if something like that would be possible (or desireable) to carry around, but would certainly be at least feasible to attempt versus the leaf blower deal?!

Cheers,
Kev

This is the only thing that cheeses me off about playing this time of year. The course is in great shape, the foliage on the trees makes for a striking visual but damned if the leaves don't drive me nuts when they are on the ground. My course does a good job of blowing the leaves off the fairways and first 10 yards of rough but if you go off any further than that good luck. FWIW I'm pretty sure (depends on local rules of course) that any loose impediment that is piled up can be considered as ground under repair. If you are absolutely sure your ball went into a pile of leaves, fallen branches etc. you should get relief without penalty.

Please read posts #6 & 7 in this thread.

Kevin

What about in a hazard or bunker?

I'm getting a little confused here. I think OzzDOA is making a correct observation (which I bolded above) regarding relief. The following definintion of "ground under repair" and "ball in abnormal ground condition not found" seem to back him up. I believe post numbers 6 and 7 are not addressing loose impediments that are pile up for removal, but simply randomly dispersed loose impediments. Or am I missing something Kevin?
Ground Under Repair
"Ground under repair" is any part of the course so marked by order of the Committee or so declared by its authorized representative. All ground and any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing within the ground under repair are part of the ground under repair. Ground under repair includes material piled for removal and a hole made by a greenkeeper, even if not so marked. Grass cuttings and other material left on the course that have been abandoned and are not intended to be removed are not ground under repair unless so marked.

c. Ball in Abnormal Ground Condition Not FoundIt is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward an abnormal ground condition is in such a condition. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the abnormal ground condition. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

If it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in an abnormal ground condition, the player may take relief under this Rule. If he elects to do so, the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition must be determined and, for the purpose of applying this Rule, the ball is deemed to lie at this spot and the player must proceed as follows:

(i)Through the Green: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot through the green, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(i).

Happened a number of times this past Sunday, IN THE FAIRWAY. The strong wind from the night below covered probably 25% of some of the fairways, and it was difficult to find the ball IN THE FAIRWAY!!!

Did I mention it was IN THE FAIRWAY!!!?!?

My buddy and I adopt our own local "leaf rule". Drop without penalty where it ought to be!

It really only matters for a couple of weeks out of the year as far as handicap purposes (end of Oct being the last valid date to post scores), and it makes the side bets more fair as well.

Hi Sawgrass.

Take a look at the next sentance in the definition of Ground Under Repair. It says, "Grass cuttings and other material left on the course that have been abandoned and are not intended to be removed are not ground under repair unless so marked." It seems to me that the grounds crew blowing leaves off the fairway and 10 yards further into the rough are not meant for removal. So, those leaves would not meet the GUR definition IMO. And I don't think the Abnormal ground Condition would apply either.

The GIR example is very specific. For instance at my course the grounds crew will pile fallen branches and leaves behind the 5th green so the tractor can pick them up because that is where their facilities are located. I have lost a couple balls that I know for a fact went into these piles, so per the rule Sawgrass quoted I am entitled to relief without penalty.

Hi Opus,

I had read OzzDOA's description as meaning leaves that were blown into piles that would eventually be moved, even if 10 yards away from the fairway edge. I'm sure the truth of it depends on whether there are thirty yards of simple rough to the side of the fairway or if there are thick woods ten yards off with years of leaves built up.

All this reminds me of watching Ernie Els at the Masters several years ago, I think in the woods left of 13. If memory serves, he was deep in, and his swing would have hit a bunch of twigs that were piled up in there. He asked for a ruling, got one he didn't like, and asked for another. The second guy gave him relief, he took a drop and was actually able to punch out safely. I was thinking at the time, "If there is one place on earth that piles that were meant to be picked up have been picked up, it's at Augusta National!" But the official apparently disagreed with me.

(Glad I finally got the opportunity to get this off my chest!)

Understood. When I read his account I didn't read it that way. But, clearly when he added that they have a regular process of taking the leaves behind the fifth green, that makes the answer pretty obvious. Quite frankly, I've never been a huge fan of the "intended for removal" language. So, if I'm a visitor to OzzDOA's club, how am I supposed to know that the pile behind the fifth green is intended for removal if it's not marked? But that's just me.

I agree it's the "piled for removal" part that makes this a tricky subject. In my mind if leaves or branches that are piled up in any clearly artificial fashion I would be inclined to see as "piled for removal". The gray area for me would be if you have a "collection" of leaves 10 yards off the edge of the fairway that was caused by the grounds crew clearing the fairways. That wouldn't really be an abnormal ground condition per the definition and it's not really "piled for removal" either. So unless you have a local "leaf relief" rule I would say it falls under 27-1 per Kevin's posts.

Ozz, my apologies, I missed the piled for removal part of your question as well. Poor reading skills, or bad eyes, you choose.

Kevin

Oh, no problem. It's the application and interpritation of the rules that makes them so interesting.

Again...what about leaves in a bunker? I know if there's a branch covering your ball that you can't move it if you're in hazard/bunker, but would leaves be considered "loose impediments". Now that I think about it, what's considered a loose impediment that you can actually remove in a bunker?

Thanks-

Basically, you can't remove any loose impediment in a hazard, except to search for a ball which only needs to uncovered to see it - not identify it. Loose impediments come under many different descriptions, mainly naturally growing elements (including rocks and stones). The only other exception that may possibly arise is when a ball comes to rest in or near the intened swing of a birds nest within a hazard. The player would be entitled to relief I think.

The only Loose Impediment that you may move in a bunker is a stone. But a Local Rule must be in force which deems stones in bunkers to be Movable Obstructions for the purpose of the rule.

You may remove cigarette ends or sweet wrappers but they of course are movable obstructions.

It was, but is no longer, true that you don't have to identify your ball in a hazard before playing it. It was changed in 2008 so now it is in fact your obligation to identify your ball before playing it.






<LI sizset="99" sizcache="0">2008 Rules Of Golf In PDF Format <LI sizset="100" sizcache="0">Comparison of Principal Changes: 2004 v. 2008
Far Hills, N.J. - Beginning in 2008, a golfer will be allowed to lift a ball for identification in a bunker or water hazard. However, there now will be a two-stroke penalty for playing a wrong ball from a hazard. In match play, the penalty will be loss of hole.

These notable changes to Rules 12-2 and 15-3, which have been under consideration for several years, are among the amendments to the Rules of Golf agreed upon by the United States Golf Association and R&A Rules Limited that will be in effect starting Jan. 1, 2008.

"There are a number of reasons for this significant change that will allow a player to lift a ball in a hazard for identification," said , Chairman of the USGA's Rules of Golf Committee. "First, there are already several Rules, such as Rules 5-3 (Ball Unfit for Play) and 22-2 (Ball Interfering with Play), that allow or require a player to lift his ball from a hazard, so the idea of lifting and then replacing a ball lying in a hazard is nothing new.

So is this the correct answer to my question about leaves in the bunker? Leaves can be moved because they'd be considered loose impediments?



Loose Impediments
"Loose impediments" are natural objects including:

· stones, leaves, twigs, branches and the like,
· dung, and
· worms, insects and the like, and the casts and heaps made by them,

provided they are not:

· fixed or growing,
· solidly embedded, or
· adhering to the ball.

Sand and loose soil are loose impediments on the putting green, but not elsewhere.

Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player.

Dew and frost are not loose impediments.

NEVERMIND! I think I just found my own answer in rule 13-4©. You can't move leaves or pebbles out of a bunker PERIOD. Correct?

13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions
Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:
a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;
b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or
c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard.

Not quite. As I mentioned above, you may move pebbles if there is a Local Rule in force specifically allowing you to.

This Local Rule is common on many courses. Check the card or notice board.

But basically yes, Crosier, you are correct. Unless Newby's aforementioned local rule is in place regarding stones specifically, you can never remove loose impedements if you are in a hazard -- either bunker or water -- except as to locate and identify your ball. I believe after you do so you have to re-create the lie except that a part of the ball can be left showing.

One odd issue that is unresolved here is what happens if the grounds crew piles leaves up in a bunker awaiting their removal. I suspect we would need a USGA ruling to see which rule takes precedence, but I suspect that you would get relief from the pile in that oddball circumstance. Seems pretty unlikely though that this would happen.

Anybody know for sure?

IMO the leaves collectively are not LIs but GUR by definition. 25-1b(ii) gives specific relief.