Full Version: unplayable lie in a bush
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I was in a weekend tournament and twice one of my fellow competitors had an unplayable lie in a bush. My question is, if you choose the two club lengths option, do you take two club lengths from the exact place where you find the ball which was near the base, or, do you take two club lengths from the edge of the bush? The difference is several feet for a large shrub, which can make the difference between being able to take a full swing, versus still being pretty close to the branches.
It's from where the ball lay, not the edge of the bush.
Rule 28. Ball UnplayableThe player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
Rule 28. Ball UnplayableThe player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
Tremendous slouch is correct. If the bush or tree is big enough, it is very possible that 2 club lengths will not be enough to get you out. That's where options A ad B above could be useful. Or you could take multiple 2 club-lengths relief with a penalty stroke for each occasion.
Thanks a lot, guys. That is also what I thought. I was asked, but I always hate to say anything to others about the rule unless I am sure. I don't think it made much difference in these cases, but I definitely want to know for the future.
QUOTE (atlanta golfer @ Oct 26 2009, 06:32 PM) 
I always hate to say anything to others about the rule unless I am sure.
Why not carry a Rule Book ?
I do carry one. And if it is my ball, I will be sure I am right. But each golfer is responsible themselves for following the rules. I am ok with providing advice if I know for sure. But in a tournament situation, it isn't my responsibility to be the rules official for others especailly if they are not even riding in my cart. Especially when we have a shotgun start and each group is responsible to keep up with the group in front of them. If someone is not in contention and the difference isn't much, I am not going to get into it.
You said you were asked. Why not show your FC the rule in the book?
Incidentally, it is also your responsibility to ensure your FC does not return an incorrect score that you are aware of.
Incidentally, it is also your responsibility to ensure your FC does not return an incorrect score that you are aware of.
Thanks for the lecture. You are correct, of course. Although the purpose of my post was simply to learn the correct interpretation of the rule.
I see that this has gotten a touch testy, and I'm not looking to add fuel to the fire, but here's a thought.
I respect the fact that Atlanta Golfer didn't want to direct his FC when he wasn't certain about the rule. And offering the FC an opportunity to look at his book may have been a suitable response, but it can sometimes take a long time to look something up.
When asked, another alternative in such a situation is to say to the FC, "I'm not positive, but I think you have to drop two lengths from the place of the unplayable lie, not from the place of freedom from the condition. Please feel free to play two balls and we can ask for a ruling before you submit your scorecard."
I respect the fact that Atlanta Golfer didn't want to direct his FC when he wasn't certain about the rule. And offering the FC an opportunity to look at his book may have been a suitable response, but it can sometimes take a long time to look something up.
When asked, another alternative in such a situation is to say to the FC, "I'm not positive, but I think you have to drop two lengths from the place of the unplayable lie, not from the place of freedom from the condition. Please feel free to play two balls and we can ask for a ruling before you submit your scorecard."
QUOTE (atlanta golfer @ Oct 27 2009, 11:47 AM)
Thanks for the lecture. You are correct, of course. Although the purpose of my post was simply to learn the correct interpretation of the rule.
Sorry if I appeared to be lecturing but it really is worth opening the book on the course whern the opportunity arises. Apart from anything else, it will give you more confidence in your knowledge and reinforce the particular rule in your memory.
QUOTE (Sawgrass @ Oct 27 2009, 09:17 AM)
I see that this has gotten a touch testy, and I'm not looking to add fuel to the fire, but here's a thought.
I respect the fact that Atlanta Golfer didn't want to direct his FC when he wasn't certain about the rule. And offering the FC an opportunity to look at his book may have been a suitable response, but it can sometimes take a long time to look something up.
When asked, another alternative in such a situation is to say to the FC, "I'm not positive, but I think you have to drop two lengths from the place of the unplayable lie, not from the place of freedom from the condition. Please feel free to play two balls and we can ask for a ruling before you submit your scorecard."
I respect the fact that Atlanta Golfer didn't want to direct his FC when he wasn't certain about the rule. And offering the FC an opportunity to look at his book may have been a suitable response, but it can sometimes take a long time to look something up.
When asked, another alternative in such a situation is to say to the FC, "I'm not positive, but I think you have to drop two lengths from the place of the unplayable lie, not from the place of freedom from the condition. Please feel free to play two balls and we can ask for a ruling before you submit your scorecard."
I like that a lot!
Kevin
Kevin
Whilst I agree that rule 3-3 is very underutilised, I suggest that it is also tricky to get right. It is importand that the player understands the nuances of declaring (or not) which ball he wants to count and that he states his intentions before playing a ball.
Whilst I agree that rule 3-3 is very underutilised, I suggest that it is also tricky to get right. It is importand that the player understands the nuances of declaring (or not) which ball he wants to count and that he states his intentions before playing a ball.
QUOTE (Newby @ Oct 27 2009, 01:07 PM)
Kevin
Whilst I agree that rule 3-3 is very underutilised, I suggest that it is also tricky to get right. It is importand that the player understands the nuances of declaring (or not) which ball he wants to count and that he states his intentions before playing a ball.
Whilst I agree that rule 3-3 is very underutilised, I suggest that it is also tricky to get right. It is importand that the player understands the nuances of declaring (or not) which ball he wants to count and that he states his intentions before playing a ball.
ABSOLUTELY
You keep taking each answer to deeper levels. That may be done with ANY rules question really, just depends upon how much you want to confuse the guy who asked the original question.
Kevin
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