First off, let me state this is not a "I lost because of sandbagging" thread. I played poorly 2 of the three days and was beaten by someone who played better. But a few things have popped into my head.

I was in a flight for people with indexes between 7.7 and 11.2. Mine was 8.6 going in. Shot my best round of the year, 77, and was 2 strokes back. The leader shot 75, and had a 9.9 index. I did some checking, and overall it seemed reasonable enough. There were several scores posted(oddly very few at the home course, but whatever) within a couple of months, although none for 2.5 weeks, despite a playing partner indicating he took money off the guy earlier that week. He shot 81 and 83 the last two days, so there's no sandbagging on that front I would say.

Now, as I understand it though, tournament scores stay in your index for a year. I'm not certain whether they remain counters, or just stay in the 20 from which the 10 best are selected.

The fact of no scores for 2 weeks had me curious, so I went and checked. Nothing posted 2 days after the end. I checked some gus in the championship flight that I know, and they all posted except for one guy hasn't posted his final round, but all 11 rounds those guys played otherwise are in.

So what is the grace period on something like that? At what point do those scores need to go in? The club never had a handicap committee before this season, but it appeared the need for one was up. There were a couple of posters around the club about posting. Exactly when should things get posted? Should the handicap committee go and post the scores for them?

Again, I'm more trying to see how a handicap committee should handle things. There is really nothing to say the handicap going in was not legitimate for this particular player. But certainly legitimacy would be called into question if this weekend's scoers do not get posted. If I join full on with this club(which it looks likely), I'd probably be getting involved somewhere along the handicap or membership committee. Just wonder what other clubs do.

I, like you, am interested in seeing what others will say to your question. But I would like to point out that the two areas above that I "bolded" suggest that there was something wrong with this guy's handicap. The fact that he had two bad rounds doesn't mean he wasn't trying to beat the system. And the fact that he apparently failed to enter a score played with your playing partner is just plain wrong, even if it were a high score. What is of particular importance here is that there is someone who can testify, based on his own observation, that the guy did not follow the rules of entering every score. Often these handicap quarrels are without any absolute proof.

And by the way, while I claim no official knowledge, in my view the ethical "grace period" for entering scores in a timely manner should absolutely end before the recalculation date prior to a handicap event someone is entering. Seems like your guy didn't do that.

To clarify, *none* of the scores from the tournament on the weekend have been entered. I know the first two would most definitely bring down his index, I don't know about the third. I was trying to show that he has been entering scores this summer. his last 20 scores I don't believe even go back to June, so there have been several posted. I found it strange very few were shot at the home club, but perhaps he is fortunate that he can have a membership and also play that much outside. Unless that creates the image that he is posting unverifiable scores....I can see where that insinuates that.

I did have some conversations with some people who say that if this guy hits the ball well and drops some putts, 75 isn't out of the question, but he's not terribly consistent, so I don't think he was purposely putting himself a flight down to give a better chance to win. He was in the proper flight by all accounts, and played well. It was mentioned that he and a playing partner of mine on the final day had played 5 days prior, and he did not show well. That score is not posted(it would not have changed his flight). Nor are the tournament scores, which is where my question originates. These are scores that any number of people can verify were shot, especially the pro shop staff who handed out the prizes at the banquet.

I am not sure what you are referring to about revision. The system we have here recalculates your handicap each time you post a score, so ostensibly you should be posting upon completion, but it has taken me a day or two to post it on occasion, however anything that may affect something such as a flight goes in right away.

My club requires that your scores be posted within 1 week of the tournament. There is no excuse for not posting these days. You can even do it online at home if you don't have the opportunity to do it while you are at the club. We do have an active handicap Chairman who does confirm if scores were posted after a tournament. If you don't, he will send you a letter to remind you to do so.

By "recalculation date" I meant the date that the USGA's local state association recalculates one's handicap. For instance, at this time of year in my state the handicaps get calculated about every two weeks, not every time you enter a score. Given the fact that your custom is to recalculate after every score, the fact that this guy played with your playing partner before the tournament and didn't enter that score was clearly an infraction, even if it didn't change his handicap or flight. I was seperating whether he did any damage from not entering his score from whether he followed the rule or not, which, if I understand you correctly, he still seems to have violated. I guess my main point is that if he didn't have his handicap up to date before competing, as I believe he was ethically required to do, that doesn't suggest that he was playing fairly in your competiton even if he lost. And clearly, his low opening round should be entered for next time, but that doesn't solve the original violation of failing to enter every score. I think everybody should enter every score, and thereby maintain the integrety of the whole system.

OK, so we are on the same page. Yes, that score wasn't entered. I initially looked at his scores because there have been plenty of threads on here about how a 9.9 could shoot a 75 on a 71.5 rated course, etc. I noticed it had been a while, but the scores looked legit, although there were none within the last 3 weeks. I didn't really think too much of it until the guy said they had played earlier that week.

A couple of comments.

1) Our club routinely does audits of tournament events and we typically give folks a full week to post.

2) When you enter a "T Score" into your handicap record, it actually goes into both your 'normal' handicap calculations and goes into a separate table where that score is kept for a year. If you have 2 or more T scores in your handicap record, there is a separate calculation that will determine if, and by how much, your index will be reduced. The reduction is a function of the average of your two best differentials, your current index, and how many T scores you have in your record (and one or two other details). But basically if your best two T score differential are less than 4 strokes better than your current index, there will be no adjustment.

dave

Blue:

A few points

Buy and read the "USGA Handicap System" - it's about $3.
Post policies that cover these areas and talk about them at your membership meetings.
Communicating with your membership is the key to get better compliance. Do so on your clubs website or newsletter.
Understand that some will not follow the rules (they prefer to be ignorant) and some will sandbag (human nature).
No system is perfect - therefore there is no such thing as perfect equity.
Post 'T' scores when appropriate.
Form a Committee and enforce the rules as best you can.
Your golf assoc and club pro can be a big help.

What we do:
1. The HC (Handicap Comm) posts 'T' scores - the day of the event - for tournaments that meet the criteria for acceptable tournament scores. For scoring tournaments, we use the TPP program that comes free with our GHIN/USGA hdcp package. It automatically adjusts scores and links with GHIN/USGA handicap network. Which makes it easy to post scores (as well as calculate the winners and skins, etc.)
2. All other home scores must be immediately posted by the player. (Why not?) If you allow a week it is possible that a score(s) could miss the next revision and make for an inaccurate hdcp - especially right before an upcoming tournament. An additional stroke or 2, especially in a 36 or more hole tournament, can make all the difference. It is not just the actual strokes. The psychological "edge" of knowing you have a cushion, where others don't, is an important factor as well.

Be reasonable and use good judgment. Innocent/honest mistakes can happen with regard to scoring records. Be firm with the problem members. (Most clubs are aware of those members that are looking for "the edge" - as dpb says.)

YOUR EXAMPLE:
IF you had rules that said the scores had to be posted within a certain time frame and weren't, here's is how I would recommend a HC handle it. Someone contact him and ask why the scores aren't posted?
If no reasonable excuse - it is hard to imagine one, but I would ask anyway - then the HC should post those scores plus PENALTY SCORES. (See the Handicap Manual - the section in question is below - see "b".)

8-4. Penalty Scores, Handicap Index Adjustment, and Withdrawal

a. General

A player must earn a Handicap Index. No player has an inherent right to a Handicap Index without providing full evidence of ability to the golf club's Handicap Committee. A Handicap Index must be changed only as warranted by the USGA Handicap System. Only the Handicap Committee where a player maintains a handicap can adjust that player's Handicap Index. There must be no automatic increases at the beginning of a playing season or year. A Handicap Index is continuous from one playing season or year to the next. (See Decision 8-4a/1 and Section 6-1.)

b. Penalty Scores

If a player fails to post an acceptable score as soon as practical after completion of the round, the Handicap Committee should post the score and/or a penalty score and ratings equal to the lowest Handicap Differential in the player's scoring record. However, if the score not returned is unusually high, the Handicap Committee should enter the score and/or a penalty score and ratings equal to the highest Handicap Differential in the player's scoring record.

c. Handicap Index Adjustment by Handicap Committee

The Handicap Committee has the responsibility of making certain that each player has a Handicap Index reflecting potential ability. Under the following circumstances, it will be necessary for the Handicap Committee to adjust the player's Handicap Index. However, the following list is not all-inclusive, and a Handicap Committee has the ultimate authority to adjust a Handicap Index under any circumstance that it feels necessary to do so. Before an adjustment becomes effective, the Handicap Committee must give the player an opportunity to explain the circumstances surrounding the proposed adjustment, either in writing or by appearing before the committee. When an adjustment does become effective, it must be identified with the letter M, reflecting that the Handicap Committee has modified the Handicap Index (e.g., 4.9M).


The word gets around pretty quickly.
The baggers won't like it - but the vast majority of the guys will.
Participation/enjoyment often increases as well.
Good Luck.