He started the day with too many clubs in his bag. Wasn't discovered until the 4th hole, so he was assessed a 4 stroke penalty.

Just sort of suprising to me ... at that level of golf, with a player as seasoned as Furyk (and - more importantly - a caddy as good as his caddy) ... how is this even possible?

Probably shouldn't start a whole thread on this ... but it just seemed totally bizarre to me ...

Bizarre is right. I believe that they caught it after the 2nd hole and was assessed a 2 shot penalty on each. (4 shots total) So who's to blame for the miscount? His caddy? Or himself?

Fluff should be fired, I think he will cost Furyk north of $750K!

yeah thanks for wasting everyone's time Midas!

now back to one of the 34 Tiger threads.



....and also, i agree, how a pro could have too many clubs in his bag is simply absurd. Maybe he should get one of those cart bags with 14 slots so he can't fit too many in there (actually , maybe that's not a bad idea)

LOL It's NEVER the caddy's fault even if the player tells the caddie to take a club out of the bag. It's always the player's responsibility to count his own clubs. Caddies get blamed for far too much.

Oh yeah ... you're right ... a double on 1 & 2 was assessed. (Oddly, he's gotten them all back now).

IMO - both he, and his caddy are equally responsible.

Midas, I think it's entirely appropriate to start a thread like this. In fact, when I heard it on TV I immediately thought that someone would surely start a thread on the subject.

It really is unbelievable that something like this could happen. One would assume that the very last thing a caddy and player do before teeing off is to do a simple inventory of the bag. It would take no longer than 5 to 10 seconds.

Caddies have been fired for less serious things. However, in my opinion it is the ultimate responsibility of the player to make sure there are no more than 14 clubs in the bag.

An expensive lesson, for sure.

The caddie should always count the clubs on the first tee before they tee off, what else do you have to do while they wait for about 5 minutes before they tee off!!! Most guys get to the tee atleast 3-5 minutes before his or her tee time.

It's always ridiculous when this happens.

In my opinion, the player's to blame. It's his ultimate responsibility to select the clubs for the day and make sure nothing's awry. I'm a player who has long travelled with 15 clubs (not including any extra putters I may be trying out) and switched out a long iron depending upon the course. I've never once set out, unwittingly, with 15 clubs in the bag because I take charge of the club selection before I reach the first tee and make sure I've only got 14 in the bag.

The caddy may well be in a prime position to spot the extra club, but the player's making the decision on what to carry and what to discard. He should have a running check kept on things and, on the rare occasion that this happens, it's on his head in my opinion.

Full marks to Furyk for not going to pieces.

I've never once heard the official on the 1st tee tell the caddy to count the clubs, he always tells the player. Now the player may tell his caddy to count the clubs, but it's still the player's responsibilty to tee off with no more than 14. He's the one getting penalized, not the caddy.

I never trusted a caddy to do something as important as counting and ensuring the RIGHT clubs and balls were in the bag. I don't know how someone could. It's the player's responsibility. Always.

-mini

this isn't just some random caddy, or your buddy, or your friend, we're talking about a professional caddy, Fluff, who Tiger fired back in the day... Do you know how much Jim pays Fluff on an annual basis? he's supposed to look out for his guy, especially since they probably came off the range to the first tee, that extra club got in there somehow... Fluff was literally the one left holding the bag, say what you want about it being a player's responsibility, he's the one that put the clubs in the bag and the one that carried it to the first tee.

I agree w/ you Mat ... ultimately the player is reponsible you his round, and everything in it. Further ... more than a few of these guys will go to the range after their rounds, and experiment with different clubs for the next day (especially if conditions are changing). The caddy may not necessarily be there ...

I also take extra clubs - especially when I travel to multiple countries on a single business trip. Conditions can be very different. Sometimes I want an extra wedge, or want to put a 3i in instead of my normal hybrid. (And the pros probably do this in spades ... they have a lot of options). But I always get the count for any course down to 14. It is so habitual to do a club count before teeing off that it almost isn't even a conscious thing. And I'm just an average amateur.

Strange thing is ... most staff bags actually have dividers ... don't they? I mean, how was it not patently obvious (to both Furyk and his caddy) that something was off?

Really, a mistake like this is like seeing a pro miss a 2 inch tap in on a green. It just doesn't happen to seasoned players.

I hope they interview him about this after his round. (He's now even ... T21 ... without that screw-up, he'd be -4, T7, tied with Tiger). Pretty damn big mistake.

Did Furky have an Ian Woosnam reaction? Now that would have been funny!!!

I am going to disagree to a point, when you consider how many players are in a tournament, X 4 rounds, X all the tournaments played around the world on several different tours X the number of players who like to experiment with differnt clubs etc. it seems to me it is amazing it doesn't happen more often. Yes a pro should know, yes the caddy should count, but all it takes is one day of running a few minutes late, being in a hurry etc. and mistakes can happen. I bet Furyk and Fluff never do it again though.

I mean do any of you ever forget to bring your cell phone to work have to turn around and get it? Hell the other day I am driving to work and realized I didn't put a belt on, stopped turned around went home and grabbed it. LIfe happens.

Here's the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-MC3VgFgY

HAHA I can still picture Woosnam's reaction, including the throwing of the driver.

I forgot about that. He throws clubs when he gets upset. He should be banned from the PGA Tour. He probably doesn't spit though.

-mini

Throwing a club away in such circumstances might not be the same thing but nice try. Let's have one thread that isn't about 'you know who'.

Silly mistake for Furyk and his responsibility, but I am impressed with the way he has still got the round back under par. Maybe it inspired him to hunt some flags.

Sir Faldo had an interesting comment about the situation; he said that his caddy Fanny always counted the clubs and he watched her, even though he himself didn't count them.

Furyk handled it with class I thought. In the interview he held himself as much responsible as Fluff.

Exactly.

They're a team and Furyk said it perfectly. It's an 'embarrassing, bonehead thing to do' but responsibility lays with him as the player.

That's a sportsman/gentleman right there. Unlike Woosnam who went off on his caddie for what was his ultimate responsibility.

Even if Woosnam had given the specific job to his caddy? Of course the buck has to stop somewhere and ultimately it has to be the responsibility of the player. If the caddy got the yardage wrong would it be the fault of the player for not measuring the yardages himself? Interesting that Woosnam did not sack his caddy after if memory serves correctly.

who busted furyk? did the caddie finally notice and say something? Or is there some secret service of club counting?

They said that Woosan sacked him.

According to the PGA Tour website, Furyk had an extra 60-degree wedge in his bag. He incurred two-shot penalties on both the first and second holes.

Logically it seems like the player should always check since its his penalty, but if I'm paying a guy 135,000-200,000 bucks for caddying for me if I win (10-15%), I don't think asking him to spend 15 seconds to count the clubs is too much.

Just ask Woosie

Translation: It's only wrong/bad to throw clubs if you're "you know who".

-mini

players responsibility to check the bag. he makes a million for the win, caddy makes 10 percent of that. at the end of the day the guy is just carrying the bag and giving him yardages. furyk would be just as good with a different caddy, dont kid yourself.

I'm amazed that he shot 70 despite starting the day with 4 penalty strokes, i guess that shows what type of person he is that he could block it out and still perform

I guess his Grateful Dead caddy wasn't in a counting mood..

Also tells you how well he played today. 66+4...yikes! Golfed his ball today.

-mini

Players fault. Just like the scorecard is the responsibilty of the player. The caddie should count to double check it, but the end result is the on the player. As somebody said before, the official on the first tee doesn't tell the caddies to identify their players ball and exchange their players score card and count their players clubs. They tell the player to do those things. It is the responsibility of the player.
Everyone wants to blame somebody else for what they should be responsible for. I was happy that Furyk took the blame.

Could you imagine if this happened to Furyk in a major like Woosnam. I bet this won't happen to Furyk again

i thought i watched his WITB video on pgatour.com, and he carries 1 for practice 1 for play to preserve his grooves... maybe that was someone else

Seems to me that whose "fault" it was directly depends on any agreement which may have been made between the player and his caddie as to who shoulders this responsibility. For us to judge that, without this knowledge, is silly. The responsibility is the player's, but the fault may lie with him or elsewhere.

And I, for one, don't find it odd for an employee who may make hundreds of thousands of dollars in a year to be trusted with something as simple as counting to 14. It's a shame that it happened. I'd suggest we leave it to the two of them to sort out the blame.

Not for that.
A month later the caddie showed up late and that was it.

In my opinion they are both at fault, it wouldnt kill either one of them to spend 30 seconds to count to 14.
He!l,4 year olds do it a long with sesame st everday, and they are not playng for $10 mil fed x cup

He doesn't believe in "better late than never"?

Agreed with the OP that a player as seasoned as Furyk shouldnt have had this penlaty. But again, everyone makes mistakes.

Actually sawgrass, I agree ... and Faldo said (pretty much) the same thing. There are many different sorts of relationships between players and caddies ... at one end of the line, caddies that basically carry a bag, quote a yardage book, and little else. On the other, caddies that help read greens, will actually call their player off the ball if they notice the wind at the pin change, and act as part psychologist - adjusting not only strategy, but mood.

When you get into the level where a player and caddy have been together for years (as with Furyk) ... I imagine there's an implicit understanding about all sorts of details. Frankly, I have no idea whether it is Furyk or Fluff that is supposed to count the clubs (or Phil or Bones, or Tiger or Stevie). Some players are extremely hands on about their clubs and gear ... others want to just show up and have their caddy simply have taken care of all of those details.

From listening to Furyk after the match ... it sounds as though the club count is something they both generally do (or at least he didn't pull a Woosie and just b**** about Fluff ont doing his "job")... and for some reason today, neither did it. They both screwed up at an utterly rookie level ... and I'm sure they both feel (if nothing else) quite embarrassed.

I just don't think we can assign blame here ... we simply do not know what the understanding the two of them have.

Maximum penalty is 4 strokes so after the 2nd hole he just as well keep all 15 clubs in the bag. I wonder if he did and if he had a preference for each of the wedges for different shots. --Jerry

My statement was in English and did not require translation. What you did was interpret my statement and you did so entirely incorrectly. Again - this is one thread that is not about him.


I'm confused - do we or don't we know who is responsible? Do we actually care? I don't get this 'pull a Woosie' nonsense though - he was, if I remember correctly, tied for the lead in the last round of The Open when he received a penalty for what could have been entirely his caddies job - I would be annoyed - I guess you would just say "never mind" and float serenely above it.

Nobilo mentioned woosie's caddie is a excellent bricklayer these days..

right or wrong, thats probably it for fluff. they may say something else was the cause, but at the end of the day its a matter of trust. when thats been broken btw player and caddie, it's really only a matter of time before the relationship's officially over