A buddy of mine the other day mentioned that you can't remove a white stake that indicates O/B. Is this an actual rule? Can't seem to find it in the rules. I thought it was a removable obstruction? Can anyone clarify this and give me a reference.
Thank you...

It's an actual rule, yes. I'll see if I can find it real quick for you.



13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play

A player must not improve or allow to be improved:

· the position or lie of his ball,

· the area of his intended stance or swing,

· his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or

· the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,

by any of the following actions:

· pressing a club on the ground,

· moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),

· creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,

· removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or

· removing dew, frost or water.

However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:

· in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,

· in fairly taking his stance,

· in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,

· in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or

· on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).

x2. No stake of any kind is an obstruction you need to live with ... white stakes, yellow, red, the 200, 150, 100 stakes, the stakes in the ground holding ropes indicating cart path only. These are artificial. You don't get a drop. You can (and should) remove the stake.

You're wrong. Please see my edited response. Thanks!

Wrong dude out of bounds stakes are not removable which are white stakes

Wait, I am confused by your response based on the OP. At first you say that it is a rule (that you cannot move it) then you say you should move it. Just a bit confused, I think based on the rule posted that you cannot move it, but I am not sure.

You CANNOT move it. Again see my response above. The only possible way you COULD move it is if it was deemed a local rule that the OB stakes are simply INDENTIFYING but not DEFINING the OB line. In that case you could move it, but not simply by USGA rules, it would have to be deemed a local rule at that particular course.

Throw another curve at ya what about the yellow or red stakes are they removable to make a swing?
Thanks again...

Tak'em out!!!

Yes, you can remove those.

What is your reference? I have folks that want to see it in writing! Get my drift...

Hazard stakes are simply moveable obstructions. Rule 24-1. Look it up on USGA.org or your rule book.

Thanks. So the only difference between the white stake and the yellow or red are what they are indicating and of course the color they are painted. It would have to be a local rule for a white stake to be removed, correct?

I've never played a course that made a local rule allowing the removal of an OB stake.

Hello, what rules book are you reading from? Boundary stakes are not removable without incurring a penalty.

13-2/17 Removal of Boundary Stake Interfering with Swing
Q. A player removes a stake defining out of bounds which interferes with his swing. Is this permissible?
A. No. Objects defining out of bounds are fixed. Improving the position of a ball by moving anything fixed is a breach of Rule 13-2.

While on the moveable obstructions/OB question, suppose there is a split rail fence that is just out of bounds with white stakes that are marking the OB line. Can you take a rail down that interferes with your swing as long as it does not "unduly delay play"? I know that you can not remove the post since it is "permanently affixed to the ground". This is a big point of contention at my home course. If the fence is considered the actual OB marker instead of the stakes, the rails can't be moved then, correct?

Can't remove fixed or immovable objects outside of OB stakes/lines. Pretty clear from the USGA...

13-2/19 Improving Area of Intended Swing by Moving Growing or Fixed Object Situated Out of Bounds
Q. A young tree or a fixed artificial object situated out of bounds interferes with a player's swing. May the player move, bend or break the tree or fixed artificial object without penalty?
A. No. Such action would be a breach of Rule 13-2.

Me neither, but that's the only way they would be able to be moved without penalty. I would assume if a course has on course out of bounds there's a chance you might run into this as a local rule.

What about if the OB is defined by a white line, and the stakes are used just to make it visible where the OB is. Does this make any difference? I have often played tournaments where there is a line along with stakes but they both do not match up. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the line what defines the OB so therefore you should be able to move the stake....

When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts (excluding angled supports). When both stakes and lines are used to indicate out of bounds, the stakes identify out of bounds and the lines define out of bounds. When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds. The out of bounds line extends vertically upwards and downwards.

Note 1: Stakes or lines used to define out of bounds should be white.

Note 2: A Committee may make a Local Rule declaring stakes identifying but not defining out of bounds to be movable obstructions.

With that said I would still assume it would have to be a local/commitee ruling to be able to move the OB stakes without penalty.

Good grief ... this is actually an argument?

I'd invite anyone posting here to show me a single instance ... in the last two or three decades, of the PGA Tour ... where a PGA Tour player hit a "white stake" (or red stake, or blue stake, or ANY freaking stake) on their backswing, because it is "impermissable" to take a stake out of the ground.

This is just insane.

Is this a MySpace golf discussion board, or one actually composed of golfers? (Sorry if that sounds demeaning ... but its like having an argument about whether one should, or should not reprair a divot, or whether the golfer farthest from the hole should should before the golfer nearest ... this isn't even a freaking question).

Midas, maybe the definition of obstruction will help you:

Obstructions
An "obstruction" is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured
ice, except:
a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;
b. Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds; and
c. Any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course.
An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise, it is an immovable obstruction.
Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule declaring a movable obstruction to be an immovable obstruction.

Kevin

Here's one where a player took the stake out because it was in his way. http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-26/spo...9_1_phone-calls

Nice find Mr. Miller!

Kevin

New York, London, Mexico City...MySpace or Outer Space, you're digging yourself into a hole here. Check the definition of "Obstruction". (There really only needed to be one reply to the OP's question-- a link to the USGA rules).

I actually find this discussion extremely interesting and helpful, and I'm glad that people have bothered to reference their opinions to the actual rules of golf instead of "You can't remove it, that's a fact. Lock this thread up".

If you think this thread is "insane" or "not a freaking question", there are hundreds of other threads to troll.

I find the rules discussion threads to be the most interesting and informative. FYI, you can take rules quizzes at the USGA's website.

First of all let me go ahead and say... what the f*** are you talking about? Second of all, you do know the rules set forth by the governing body isn't JUST for the PGA Tour, so I have no clue where you are trying to go with the reference to it. Especially considering the fact the the OP is talking about him and his buddies at their local course. What's insane is the fact that, if anything, you're the one that more closely resembles a person on a "MySpace golf discussion board" than an actual golfer.


And if that isn't enough...




LMAO... I think your invite was accepted.

Hey Midas,

How about using a little of that "coin" and investing in a little book called the Rules of Golf? You get it for free when you become a member of the USGA... You just might learn something about golf as opposed to whatever game it is that you are playing...

If that is too expensive for your MySpace mind, you could just go here:

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Go...-and-Decisions/

Okay, okay, you got him. Midas was clearly wrong about this rule. No need to hammer him.

Good find on the PGA tour ruling article. The rule makes sense.

Tim

Wow... great find. There is his single instance.

I doubt such a local rule would be legal per Rules 33-1 and 33-8 which prohibit the Committee or a Local Rule from modifying the Rules of Golf.

It would be legal to deem these stakes an immovable obstruction, at least in an instance where there is internal OB. Decision 24/5 covers this situation...

Question: White stakes installed between the 7th and 8th holes define out of bounds during play of the 7th hole, but they have no significance during play of the 8th hole. Are such stakes obstructions during play of the 8th hole?

Answer: No, the Definition of “Out of Bounds” states that such stakes are not obstructions. However, in this case it is recommended that, by Local Rule, the stakes be deemed immovable obstructions during play of the 8th hole.

This rule got me yesterday in a tournament. My ball was a couple feet inside of OB stakes that had steel cables roped between them. It allowed a minimal backswing that hit the cable. I thought I got relief from an immoveable obstruction, but a guy in my foursome told me the correct ruling. A good rule to know for future reference.

Apart from the OB stakes which have been answered correctly by other posters you have also got the other things wrong.
They are of course obstructions because they are artificial. They are movable obstructions if they can be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise they are immovable obstructions.
In addition they may be declared to be immovable obstructions by Local Rule.
If you move an immovable obstruction it is a 2 stroke penalty.