When taking a drop from the staked tree you take 1 club length from the nearest point of relief with no penalty. The question is, can you use any club in the bag to take the drop or do you have to use the club you take the drop with to play the shot?
I was under the impression you can always drop with whatever club you like and surely you then reassess the shot once the drop has been made depending on lie etc.
Can you settle this for me?
Full Version: Rules question on Staked trees
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Always club of choice.
Any club, most every one chooses driver.
kyle, in the States, the USGA has issued Decision 20-2b/2 "Measuring Club-Lengths" in which it states:
For the purpose of measuring, a player may use any club he has selected for that round...
I believe the R&A has the same ruling in place.
For the purpose of measuring, a player may use any club he has selected for that round...
I believe the R&A has the same ruling in place.
Any club you like - although many golfers, unofficially, will not include a long putter, should they carry one, as a suitable club to measure with.
There's no requirement to use only a club you're going to hit, or are likely to use, for the subsequent shot.
There's no requirement to use only a club you're going to hit, or are likely to use, for the subsequent shot.
Well looks like i was correct as i thought. Being forced to use the club you dropped with would make no sense at all because it could be a 3 iron distance but the drop could produce a terrible lie which would be impossible to hit 3 iron from.
If someone has a link to this rule in the official rules i would appreciate it because i cant seem to find it.
If someone has a link to this rule in the official rules i would appreciate it because i cant seem to find it.
The USGA, in conjunction with The R&A in St. Andrews, Scotland, writes, interprets and maintains the Rules of Golf to guard the tradition and integrity of the game. The two organizations are joint authors and owners of The Rules of Golf and Decisions on the Rules of Golf.
Here is the link to it on the USGA website: http://www.usga.org/bookdecision.aspx?id=14293#20/2
Here is the link to the R&A publication: http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/decisions/decisions.html click on #20 and then look at 20/2 in the Decisions section.
Here is the link to it on the USGA website: http://www.usga.org/bookdecision.aspx?id=14293#20/2
Here is the link to the R&A publication: http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/decisions/decisions.html click on #20 and then look at 20/2 in the Decisions section.
I think we are confusing two different things here. We are mixing up measuring club lengths with determining nearest point of relief. You are allowed to use any club you want when measuring the 1 club length after the nearest point of relief has been determined. But, you cannot use any club you want to determine the actual nearest point of relief.
The definitions section of the Rules covers this under "Nearest Point of Relief". The note says: "In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke."
Hope that helps.
The definitions section of the Rules covers this under "Nearest Point of Relief". The note says: "In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke."
Hope that helps.
QUOTE (OpusX20 @ Aug 3 2009, 12:11 AM) 
I think we are confusing two different things here. We are mixing up measuring club lengths with determining nearest point of relief. You are allowed to use any club you want when measuring the 1 club length after the nearest point of relief has been determined. But, you cannot use any club you want to determine the actual nearest point of relief.
The definitions section of the Rules covers this under "Nearest Point of Relief". The note says: "In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke."
Hope that helps.
The definitions section of the Rules covers this under "Nearest Point of Relief". The note says: "In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke."
Hope that helps.
It says "should", not "must".
I have seen on occasion a player (on the PGA tour), take a club which there would be no way in the world he's normally be hitting, just to position his body so that he would get a free drop. For example, you have a really bad lie and are near a cart path. Take the wedge in your hand, and you're not standing on the cart path. Take the 3 iron in your hand (which you wouldn't hit out of this terrible lie), and suddenly you're standing on the path, eligible for a free drop.
Both Larry and OPUS make valid - correct points. You do not have to use the club you will be using for your next stroke in determining your nearest point of relief, but ultimately, your drop must be within that parameter. You need to understand the following 2 decisions.
Kevin
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24-2b/1 Determining "Nearest Point of Relief"
Q. The Note to the Definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" provides that the player should determine this point "by using the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such stroke." May the player use any club, address position, direction of play or swing in determining the nearest point of relief?
A.No. In determining the nearest point of relief accurately it is recommended that the player use the club, address position, direction of play and swing (right or left-handed) that he would have used had the obstruction or condition not been there. For example, the player has interference from an immovable obstruction and, were it not for the obstruction, he would have used a right-handed stroke with a 4-iron to play the ball from its original position towards the green. To determine the nearest point of relief accurately, he should use a right-handed stroke with a 4-iron and the direction of play should be towards the green. See also Decisions 20-2c/0.7 and 20-2c/0.8.
24-2b/2 Player Does Not Follow Recommended Procedure in Determining Nearest Point of Relief
Q. A player's ball lies on an artificially surfaced path, which is an immovable obstruction, through the green. The ball is situated at the left edge of the obstruction and the player is right-handed. The player elects to take relief under Rule 24-2b(i) but does not go through the procedure recommended in the Note to the Definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" for determining the nearest point of relief. Instead, he lifts the ball and drops it within one club-length of the nearest edge of the obstruction, not nearer the hole than the ball's original position, and plays it. What is the ruling?
A. Provided the ball is dropped on a spot that satisfies the requirements of Rule 24-2b(i) and the ball did not roll into a position requiring a re-drop under Rule 20-2c, the player incurs no penalty.
Although there is a recommended procedure for determining the nearest point of relief, the Rules do not require a player to determine this point when proceeding under Rule 24-2, 24-3, 25-1 or 25-3. If a player does not determine a nearest point of relief accurately or identifies an incorrect nearest point of relief, a penalty only arises if, as a result, the player drops his ball at a spot which does not satisfy the requirements of the Rule under which he is proceeding and he then plays the ball (e.g., the spot is more than one club-length from the correct nearest point of relief or the ball is dropped nearer to the hole than the nearest point of relief). In such circumstances, the player would be penalized for playing from a wrong place (Rule 20-7).
Kevin
=======================
24-2b/1 Determining "Nearest Point of Relief"
Q. The Note to the Definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" provides that the player should determine this point "by using the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such stroke." May the player use any club, address position, direction of play or swing in determining the nearest point of relief?
A.No. In determining the nearest point of relief accurately it is recommended that the player use the club, address position, direction of play and swing (right or left-handed) that he would have used had the obstruction or condition not been there. For example, the player has interference from an immovable obstruction and, were it not for the obstruction, he would have used a right-handed stroke with a 4-iron to play the ball from its original position towards the green. To determine the nearest point of relief accurately, he should use a right-handed stroke with a 4-iron and the direction of play should be towards the green. See also Decisions 20-2c/0.7 and 20-2c/0.8.
24-2b/2 Player Does Not Follow Recommended Procedure in Determining Nearest Point of Relief
Q. A player's ball lies on an artificially surfaced path, which is an immovable obstruction, through the green. The ball is situated at the left edge of the obstruction and the player is right-handed. The player elects to take relief under Rule 24-2b(i) but does not go through the procedure recommended in the Note to the Definition of "Nearest Point of Relief" for determining the nearest point of relief. Instead, he lifts the ball and drops it within one club-length of the nearest edge of the obstruction, not nearer the hole than the ball's original position, and plays it. What is the ruling?
A. Provided the ball is dropped on a spot that satisfies the requirements of Rule 24-2b(i) and the ball did not roll into a position requiring a re-drop under Rule 20-2c, the player incurs no penalty.
Although there is a recommended procedure for determining the nearest point of relief, the Rules do not require a player to determine this point when proceeding under Rule 24-2, 24-3, 25-1 or 25-3. If a player does not determine a nearest point of relief accurately or identifies an incorrect nearest point of relief, a penalty only arises if, as a result, the player drops his ball at a spot which does not satisfy the requirements of the Rule under which he is proceeding and he then plays the ball (e.g., the spot is more than one club-length from the correct nearest point of relief or the ball is dropped nearer to the hole than the nearest point of relief). In such circumstances, the player would be penalized for playing from a wrong place (Rule 20-7).
Hate to hijack this thread, but this reminded me of something that happened to me in a tourney about 5 years ago. Hit a ball left, near the OB. About 4 inches in front of me is a new, and I mean NEW little pine tree. The thing was MAYBE 12" tall. I had a clear shot to the back of the ball. Stupid tree wasn't staked.
Well, it's a tournament. Grabbed my gap wedge, and proceeded to put the ball on the green. In the process of doing so, made about a million toothpicks out of that poor sapling!
Well, it's a tournament. Grabbed my gap wedge, and proceeded to put the ball on the green. In the process of doing so, made about a million toothpicks out of that poor sapling!
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