The curiosity is finally getting to me. I have yet to play a round with a double digit handicap that breaks 80, yet in every tournament I play (which thank God is not many) in there is always or two of you. Some of you DDs even pull off the break 75 round. So since I have not personally witnessed it, just how did you do it?

I know it was not a stellar day off the tee. I could put your ball 275 out from the tee in the center of the fairway and you still won't break 80.

So was it an odds defying day of irons? Did you just knock down pins all day so that even your shaky putting couldn't ruin the round?

Did you miss greens but get up and down from everywhere? In a bunker with a downhill lie...no problem. Deep rough with the ball barely visible....no problem. Short sided three times....no problem.

Or perhaps you putted like Tiger at the 2008 US Open. Just dropped bombs from everywhere and when you needed that clutch par putt form 15 feet, you were money.

Or maybe it was all of the above. You strolled on to the course with your 17 index, but one day it was all different. The eggs tasted better, you stayed away from the third cup of coffee and lucky you the tournament tees were set at the whites so you gained 500 yards before you even started.

So all you DDs out there who won a tournament shooting a net 62. Tell us all, just how did you do it. I am in awe.

BTW, here's the link to your super rare feat in odds.

http://www.usga.org/handicapping/articles_...urnament-Score/

You have too much faith in human honesty. It's called sandbagging.

We cheated.

I would disagree. But as already stated, people cheat... a lot.

Sounds like somebody's mad about losing that $50 in pro shop credit.

I have played several rounds in the 70s as a double digit handicap. I just did not waste any shots. I kept the ball in play, no hazards or out of bounds. I also got up and down a couple more times. Throw in a couple birdies and take away a couple double bogeys and you have a pretty big swing. I also have a schizo golf swing. Sometimes I just hit the ball like a single digit guy sometimes i hit it like a 20 capper.

I somewhat disagree with your statement because I am a 12-13 handicap but I am about the most inconsistent you will ever see. I have shot 75 twice both were last year. Earlier this year I shot a 78 and then proceeded to shoot a 50 during leagues! Noone has to worry about me in tourneys because I am a choke artist. If I am playing with buddies or alone I can shoot good scores but when you get me around people I don't know I can't drive, putt, or hit irons. However I will say that sandbagging is getting really bad and I feel your pain. Have you ever seen two guys shoot 18 under in a member-member tourney that had handicaps of 24 and 30? Yea it's just plain stupid the crap these guys can get away with. I just posted a topic about the sandbagging yesterday. How about a 30 handicap (yes I said 30) shooting par in a practice round with me and then inputting a score of 108?? Same guy who shot 18 under with his partner in the tourney mentioned above. We can complain all we want but it seems like nothing ever gets done about these guys!

Wells said sooner... I am the exact same way!! It can be done but I will admit I am having my best possible day when I shoot scores like that.

First off, I am not upset about it at all, I don't play in any handicapped flights or skins games or the like. I would rather take my beating by a +2 golfer than a net 58.

But I am curious, outside of the obvious explanation of sandbagging, how does one defy 1200:1 odds?

And I really don't think it is all that well said by "sooner". Seriously, "several rounds" in the 70s? What does that mean? Given that your index is based on best 10 out of last 20 scores, it's hard to shoot in the 70s with any regularity and be a double digit handicap. It doesn't add up.

No worries though, I just thought someone might have a great story about their "career" day.

I'm curious as well. In my last tournament my net 70 (in which which I putted extremely well and had 2 chip-ins) was beaten by a net 61 even though I beat the cheater by 2 strokes.

This is how it went down in 1988. I'd been playing golf for 2 years. I worked 2 different golf courses. I played wherever and whenever I was allowed. Before work, during downpours and windstorms, whenever. Golf is funny, when you're getting started it all seems counterintuitive. There are so many similarities to raquet and stick sports that you think it should be easier. I could hit the ball a mile. I just wasn't sure where it would land. I kept hitting it long, and I got better and better at getting up and down from just about anywhere. I typically played by myself with a variety of players, and often played through (I guess I seemed in a hurry). I was oblivious to both pressure and course management.

The one course I played on considered employees members, so I was eligble for the club championship. I was getting better every week, except for my wedge game (I didn't have a sand wedge of lob wedge). 2 weeks before the club championship in August, I borrowed 2 issue of Golf magazine from the clubhouse. One with Seve on the cover had an article, "Which wedge when" and the other with Curtis Strange on the cover had an excellent article on the short game. I bought a sandwedge (I've since lost that one) and a Cobra Phil Rodgers 60 degree lob wedge. It was amazing.

Long story even longer, the day of the club championship, it rained non-stop (not too hard, but steady) and the wind gusted. I knew how to manage by towels and played with a carry bag with bag stand (an aftermarket stand that bolted onto my Pinnacle bag). I went into the tournament with an 18 hdcp, and shot 83, 80. The rounds weren't stellar, but compared to the field they sure were. I won low net and got called a sandbagger for a month. I didn't even know what that meant. By October my handicap was down to 10.0 and I'd shot a few rounds in the 70s.

Fast forward to 1995.

I was a member at a little 9-hole course that just didn't suit my game at all. I played a few other courses in the area that had higher slope ratings that suited my game better. I was playing from the back tees because you usually get a little more room to work the ball from the back tee (at least on those courses) which meant an even higher slope. Of all the scorecards I turned in that summer, the computer did not use one single round from my home course. My handicap was down to 6.7 even though I'd never broken 80 there (a par 70 course to boot). When club championship day rolled around I found myself in the championship flight. It was a disaster. I finished with the high net - a prize everyone wants on their resume.

I agree with everything you say, except Tigers 15 footer at the 2008 U.S. Open was for birdie.

Some people play better when it's a real competition. It's something to focus on. I always play a about 5 strokes better when there's money on the line.

Well as a 17 myself I don't think its that far fetched. I play at a short narrow course, about 5900yds. When I keep the ball in play I can par any hole, usually bogey at worse. But thats when I keep it in play. I'm a 17 because I usually have at least 2 lost balls or OB off the tee per round sometimes more.
I've had many rounds with a front or back nine of 37-39, so I know that its consistency and course management rather than ability thats keeping me in the doble digits.

You just have to have a little "Watson" in you!

I've read that athletes are REALLY hard to handicap effectively, as they're likely to understand how to prepare for a big event, and probably know a thing or two about playing well under pressure.

I'm not talking about your 15-25 caps shooting 75 here, more like your 10-11 former single digits shooting 77-78. I know there are odds against it, but did ANYONE have Tom Watson finishing second at the British? Now if your DD handicapper makes a habit of shooting a net 64 EVERY tournament, then he ain't lucky, he's a sandbagger!!!

i'm about a 10-12, so when i got a 77, it was on an easy, short course, i had 2 lucky birdies, a bunch of pars, and no blow up holes.

How to answer that question?

Well in Aus there is no "sandbagging" simply because the only way you can lodge a h'cap card is in competion play & signed by your marker.

I currently play off 15 and when off 18 one fine day in monthly medal about 8 weeks ago shot 81/ nett 63 (-9)

It can just happen. I had been taking lessons with a good pro who had completely retooled my swing and everything just "clicked" I even managed to knock in putts that day which rarely happens for me.

It can happen without cheating, hard work + instruction = improvement. That simple, really.

You have to understand what these statistics mean, how they are calculated, and what the assumptions are. They are population stats. Statistics are based on random sampling. Essentially the 1200:1 means that if you were to choose a random golfer with the handicap range the ratio you cited is for (6-12 according to the table in the link) they would have a 1200:1 chance of shooting seven stokes below their handicap (according to that same table). It's very difficult to take these population stats and apply them to non-randomly chosen individuals since individuals have so much inherent variability. It's the same thing for all the hole in one stats you see thrown around. Example; someone gets two holes in one in a round and everyone starts citing the odds are like 1 bazillion trillion to one. Those odds do not take into account anything about the individual golfer or conditions at the time, they are just populations stats indicating that a golfer chosen at random would have a very very slim chance of making two holes in one in round. Perhaps that golfer is really having a great iron day, and perhaps that golfer is also playing a course with short easy par 3's thus making it more likely to get a hole in one. Once they get their first perhaps this changes how they play the other par 3's thus increasing their odds even more. Of course even with all these "conditions" it's still a monumental feat to hit two holes in one in a round. It's also certainly possible that there are golfers out there who honesty play better in tournament than during causal rounds, or just by chance happen to play well, but, as the stats suggest, they should be rare.

not all DD's are sandbaggers - In the UK your handicap only gets adjusted when you play in club comps with a marker and the card is signed by both. As a category 2 golfer in the UK it takes 10 bad rounds for handicap to go up by even one shot, but if you score under your handicap it comes comes down by .2 for every shot under par -

Example 1: A net 66 would drop your handi by 0.8 if the SS is 70. but shoot a 90 which is 9 over par (Handicap 11 - net 79) and you handicap only rises by 0.1

Example 2: Gross 77 - 11 = net 66 - SSS 70
old handicap 11.2 - new handicap 10.4

Gross 90 - 11 = net 79 - SSS 70
Old Handicap 11.2 - New handicap 11.3


also low DD's only have 1 or two bad holes that will ruin their card, i played last week and shot 77 net 66....cause i kept double bogey off the card, if i was in trouble i just took my medicine, chipped out and relyed heavily on my very good putting.

One round under 80 in my life, I shot a 75 (Net 60) the other day. How did I do it:
Fairways hit 13 of 14, GIR 67%, 3 birdies, 7 pars and 8 bogies. Never had stats like this before. It was not in a competition though and since I'm from the UK it won't change my handicap.

Has anyone thought about the differences between UK and US handicap system for double digit players before? I'm a 15 handicap on the UK system but when I calculate on the US system I come out as a 12, this could be because I don't get chance to play many comps but when I do play I don't win them. It seems to me the difference between the two is greater as the handicap increases.

I'm technically a double digit handicapper (10 at the moment) and shoot in the 70's probably 1 out of 4 rounds. I was as low as an 8 about 2 months ago though (then work picked up and I couldn't golf for 2 months). Even at that, the best round I've ever had was still 74 on a par 71 course. I tend to be pretty consistant in my scores. I'm still waiting for that day when I shoot par. Usually shoot between 78 and 87 regardless of the course. Although, when I was around a 12 handicap a couple years back, I did shoot 76 (4 over par), which would have been a net 8 under. I think I only missed one GIR that day though and my handicap did end up dropping a couple strokes within a couple weeks.

It does happen though. However, I know what people are saying.... like when in my golf league a couple weeks back an 11 handicap (for 9 holes) shot one over par..... for a net 26...... Yah...... ten under net through 9 holes..... that's sandbagging. His partner was a 12 handicap and shot 41 on his own ball for a net 29. Both having a stellar night? I think not, as they both had very good swings.

When I first took up the game and was a 20 handicapper I shot a 68 in a tournament. My problem was and I guess still will forever be my Driver, but if you get me on a course under 7100 yards my iron and short game really gets to shine. When I shot 68 I chipped in on the first 3 holes, 1 of which was a par 5 for eagle.

Don't feel bad, it happens, sometimes you golf against golfers that are really good but don't have the time to really work on their games and improve. I'm now a 4.4 index, and if I could get my Driver sorted out I'd be a scratch golfer.

And yes I'm planning on taking lessons to get there....

I play to a 15 right now, but I have a a few decent rounds (74, 79). My problem is having the entire game come together every week. Normally I am driving the ball well, but can't hit an iron shot, or I can't hit a decent drive if my life depended on it. There has also been rounds where I have had 26 putts, and rounds where I have had 40. The few rounds I shot well, everything came together. I was driving it well, my irons were dialed in and everything was dropping in the cup. It can happen.

There is probably a "very small" window for an improving golfer with a lot of potential to card those kind of results. If someone has only been playing for a short while but are very athletically gifted, they can card some very low net scores. I know a guy who had started playing shooting around 100 and by the end of the season he had a two rounds in the low eighties and one in the high seventies. I'm sure his hdcp was still in tall double digits at that point.

However, the guys that have been playing for 10 years to a 14 hdcp and then shoot a 75 in tournament play.......well we all know how that happens.

I have no doubt that a double digit handicapper is capable of having a stellar round. The odds of it happening are low but at the same time it happens all the time.

What I do have a doubt about (much like the OP) is it happening during a big tournament. I mean most high handicappers on here probably have a ton of stories about when they had it going and blew it because of pressure. Hell, a lot of low handicappers could tell the same stories.

So to shoot your career round, on what has to be the most pressure felt round you play in, to me is a little suspect. The only way I could see it happening is that you get paired up with players that are much better than what you're used to playing with and the whole "level of competion" thing comes in to play.

There was another post on this site that mentioned someone who shot a 72 and posted a 108 to get their handicap up. There's no room for this type of cheating. It may sound corny, but I play for the enjoyment of competing with myself. I don't enter tournaments or carry an official USGA handicap, just because something like this will annoy the hell out of me and I would propbably confront the cheater.
I would like to think that most golfers are honest, but it's the few sandbaggers that ruin tournaments for me.
I am an estimated double-digit and have only broken 80 once in my 13 years. I would think that a 10 would break 80 about 2-3 times out of their last 20 rounds. Other than that a 14-15 capper probably 1 time in the last 20 and would have to have some really terrible scores to get their handicap to about 15. So either the guys really had career days or like everyone has said, we really know how they did it......

It also has to do with the time it takes for the system to adjust. If I'm busting my a** practicing nightly, but only playing once a week, it's going to take 3 or 4 revisions before my handicap becomes accurate. That's 6 to 8 weeks where I'm beating my index more than the odds say I should be.

The problem with those stats that everyone always refers to is that they only work if your handicap is fixed. If I'm a 12 hcp and I've been there for years, then yes, it's probably 1200:1 that I suddenly beat my index by 7 strokes, everything else being equal. But everything else is rarely equal.

I know that every year I go through the same routine. After taking the winter off, I start playing in the spring and can't play near my index, and my hcp goes up 3 or 4 strokes. By July or August, I've finally got everything working and my hcp starts falling, but it doesn't adjust quickly enough and I start to beat my index 2 or 3 times out of 4 rounds. It may look to a casual observer that I'm sandbagging, but it happens every year. Then by September, my hcp is down where it should be, just in time for the weather to start getting colder, and then the season ends.

Just this passed saturday I shot 79, I was a 15 index when the day began and afterwards its 14.1. What really helped was leaving driver in the bag (which i was able to do on a short course). hit 3 wood straight all day and probably had the most GIR in my life. I chipped really well, but I always chip well (thats a byproduct of never getting GIRs) and I three putted only once. It's not quite impressive as it sounds though because I was with my buddy who just started playing and we hit from the middle tees (6,100 yrds, 119 slope)

I completely didn't factor this in. If a 15 capper plays from the tips on a conisistent basis, and most tourneys play from the white tees, then it is possible for a 15 capper to shoot in the 70s. I still think that there are too many sandbaggers out there. Just my $.02

It takes skill to make a 5ft putt when you need it. It takes even more skill to intentially leave a 5ft putt just on the lip when you don't need it!

My current handicap: 22

Best score ever: 84

Worst score this year: 113

Golf is a funny game.

This is the thing about odds, that means it does happen 1 out of every 1200 times a double digit guy tees it up. so if there are 100 double digit guys playing it will happen every 12 rounds.

also double digit is a pretty loose term, I know a lot of 10 -12 type guys who have a major flaw in their game (chipping and driving come to mind as the most obvious), that if they get around that day (avoid chipping by hitting good approaches all day, or find the straight magic with their dirver), they can shoot very good scores.

I did one time play in a group with a 22 handicap who shot an 80 for a net 58. Crushing the net field (one of the reasons I only play in the gross side of things).

I know this guy is a legit 22 because I have played with him about 20 or so rounds and he normally shoots between 95 and 105 (his previous best I had seen was an 89 and previous worst was 115+) .

So here is how it happened.

The only thing this guy can normally do is putt. I would put this guy's handicap and putter in my scramble group any day. He normally takes massive cuts at the ball and is one of those 275 down the pipe or 130 O.B. guys off the tee. His iron play looks like he has M.S. (no offense to anybody with MS, but it is eerie). His short game looks like a monkey trying to have sex with a football.

Somehow every drive went straight this day. I don't know how, I don't know why, but he only once hit a ball into trouble off the tee.

His iron play wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great. He did manage to miss greens in only the best possible spots all day, leaving himself texas wedge style short game shots, which is the only short game he has.

He eagled a par 4, (#1 handicap hole, 455 yd. par 4 to tiny diabolical green) by holing out from 190 yards with a hybrid.

He texas wedged in for birdie on one par 5 and birdied another par 5 after knocking it about 5 yards short in 2. Like I said the guy is not short; just normally so erratic that his distance hurts, more than helps.

He birdied a par three after getting a bounce off a bunker rake.

He had one blow up hole (normally that number is closer to 8 or so complete travashamockeries), and took an 8 on a par 4.

So all in all a guy with a 22 handicap playing from 6700 yard tees had 3 birds, 1 eagle, 1 quad, and various pars/bogeys.

There was no hustle in this guy, it was the happiest I have ever seen him, and how he got anything done with his swing will always amaze me.


But for the most part, people sandbag and cheat.

so would it be considered strange that i went from a 22 (scoring in the mid 90's consistently) to a 14.7 in a matter of just a month or so? granted, i don't have a "true" handicap-- i use http://golf.sports.yahoo.com/tracker. works well enough for me, though. i don't think i'm good enough to have a "real" handicap.

that being said, the past 7 of 10 rounds have been in the 80s for me-- with me equaling my low score of 83 two times.

+1. That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

A couple of other things though. For me, playing well is so dependent on how I am mentally and I have always struggled to get in the right frame of mind on a consistent basis. All of the sub 80 rounds I've had have stood out, not so much for the score but for how well I've been thinking. Many of Bob Rotella's books have helped me in this regard.

"travashamockeries" Excellent word.

I think the DD's do this:

When they play a casual round that they end up posting they don't read the putt all the way around. They have a beer or three. They talk a lot, loss focus, etc. ...then they post that score.

When the tournament comes around they take their time to read the break 360° around the cup. They focus on better contact to not embarrass themselves rather than going for the hero shot. ...then they post a decent score.


It's a form of sandbagging... my club is full of them.

This is easy to explain if you look at my game. I've got pretty good hand-eye coordination. Played baseball growning up. Never really touched a club until 4 years ago. I've got 2 young kids and I play about 20-30 rounds a year. I am plenty long when I want to be. I play in Oregon year round in all types of weather (got to take what you can get). Never taken a lesson. Add all of this up to a super inconsistent swing. I can walk out onto a course with 20 yard hooks off the tee and short right irons all day. That will give me a score of at most 90. Or I can come out hitting a gentle fade off the tee and a tight draw on my irons and shoot 80.

My last 2 rounds were a mess and I shot 90 at courses I know well. 2 months ago I went on a trip and shot 81,82,83 on 3 different courses that I had never played before. I am a 13 by the way.

+1

That is exactly how 90% of the members at my home course play!
They drive around while in a league, half cocked, spilling there guts about there life and then as if the golf gods cast a spell on them during the club championship and they post an unbelievable score leaving us legit players left in the dust.

edit for spelling

Rohlio,

The only thing more impressive than your fellow competitor's wonderful round is your ability to remember it in such detail!

I also think that the point you bring up about beating 1200:1 odds is important to this thread. 1 guy beating 1200:1 odds is perhaps questionable. 1 of 1200 guys beating 1:1200 odds is just average.

Maybe there are a lot of cheaters, I don't know. But it's sad when someone legitimately has a great round and then is questioned for it. You pretty much have to do a lot better than average to win, so anyone who wins is likely questioned, at least by someone.

Hey, maybe someone out there who is an experienced cheater will make a post. What the hell kind of attraction is there to cheating and winning? I really don't get it.

haha true, I am one of those guys that can recall almost anybody's score from any given hole during a day, it is a wierd ability. Guys I play with regularly will ask me "Hey what did I get on number 8?"...to which I reply "Push right off the tee, iron in from rough short left, chip and two putts for a 5."

That was such a drastically odd occurrence it really stuck in my mind, and since I was keeping his card I was privy to it.

3 of my last 20 rounds have been in the 70s but i also have been playing more rounds on a par 72 course rather than par 70 like i used to play. Back when I was driving the ball better my short game was not as good but i would drive the ball within 50 yards of several holes at my old home course. I did not keep a handicap at the time but my scores varied more than they do now. I would shoot three rounds in the 70s one week then 5 in the 90s two weeks later. Believe whatever you want but someone with some natural skill and ability but an inconsistent swing can shoot relatively low on occasion. What are the odds that a 10 handicap will shoot a round at one over? My career best round is one over par.