I was playing in an event on my local junior tour yesterday, and a rules question came up that no one in our group knew the ruling for. Anyway, I was on the 13th hole, (a pretty short par 5), and block my drive right. But, since there are telephone wires over there, there wasn't any trouble, just some rough. just to be safe, i hit a provisional off the tee. i get up there and find my ball, and procede to hit a good 7 iron that was going back into the fairway, but it hit one of the telephone wires and drops straight down. i thought i got a free re-hit, so i drop a ball, and proceed to do the same thing and it drops to the same spot, within a foot of eachother. i proceed to drop another one and this time it misses them and gets back in the fairway. when i am walking up the right side to pick my balls up that hit the wire, one of the kids says to me that i can't pick those up because they weren't free "re-hits". i said that i was allowed to and the other kid wasn't sure. there weren't any rules officials near, so i proceeded to play all 3 balls out. from there, i made all three pars, so we agreed that we would just put par on the scorecard and not question the ruling. i forgot to ask an official after my round and i'm still unsure about the rule. did i do the right thing by playing all three balls out? also, is it a free "re-hit", or do i have to play it as it is.
(i looked in the rule book and couldn't find the ruling)
thanks and sorry that was so long just for a simple answer.
Full Version: Quick rule question i need an answer for.
GolfWRX.com > Golf Swings, Styles, Travel, Leisure > Swing/Fitness/Beginners > Rules of Golf and Etiquette
Why would you think you would get a "free rehit"?
IMO....you shoulda played the first one and counted all strokes leading up to it (drive right...found...hit the wire...walk up to it for your third stroke)
IMO....you shoulda played the first one and counted all strokes leading up to it (drive right...found...hit the wire...walk up to it for your third stroke)
A lot going on here. I'll assume you picked up the provisional you hit from the tee. The answer to your question depends on whether there was a local rule or not. Since you don't mention it, I would assume there was not one. Although most courses that have power lines (and the like) have local rules requiring that you replay the shot. In other words, you don't get to choose depending on how the shot turned out.
After the first ball hit the power lines, you could have played a second ball if you were unsure of the ruling. You then would have played a third ball sind the second ball also hit the overhead lines. Based on what you said, it sounds like you played all three balls. My quesitio is, did you declare that you wree playing a second ball to your competitors, or did you just drop a ball and rehit. If you just dropped the ball and rehit thinking you got a "free rehit", then you have a problem. If you declared the second (and third balls as such) then you were correct to play all three out and end up taking the score of par. Although, in this scenario your original ball is actually the correct one, since you were not entitled to or required to replay the shot.
Hope I didn't make it more confusing, but to accurately answer we need to know if there is a local rule and if you declared the second and third ball.
After the first ball hit the power lines, you could have played a second ball if you were unsure of the ruling. You then would have played a third ball sind the second ball also hit the overhead lines. Based on what you said, it sounds like you played all three balls. My quesitio is, did you declare that you wree playing a second ball to your competitors, or did you just drop a ball and rehit. If you just dropped the ball and rehit thinking you got a "free rehit", then you have a problem. If you declared the second (and third balls as such) then you were correct to play all three out and end up taking the score of par. Although, in this scenario your original ball is actually the correct one, since you were not entitled to or required to replay the shot.
Hope I didn't make it more confusing, but to accurately answer we need to know if there is a local rule and if you declared the second and third ball.
Couple of years ago I was watching my daughter play in a AJGA tourney, she hit a tee shot that hit power wires.... Free re-hit was given by the rules official of the tourney.
A lot depends on wether or not the local rule for the course allows a free drop for hitting the wires. Some do, some don't. But putting 3 balls into play is a definate no-no.
Rule 3-3 deals with situations in strokeplay where there doubt over the correct procedure for continuing play. A player may put a second ball into play and complete the hole with both balls, record both scores for that hole with each ball and let the committee or whoever resolve the correct score after the round.
It is imperative that you announce your intention to do this with your playing partners, as you would also be required to do with a provisional ball. It must be noted however, that invoking Rule 3-3, i.e. putting a second ball into play is not a provisional ball.
Since you put a total of 3 balls into play at one time, there is a problem. Rule 3-3 only allows a second ball to be in play, not a third. Therefore your second ball in play must also be treated in the same manner as your original ball and must be played as a provisional if there is doubt of it's position, or dropped in accordance with the rules if lost or in a hazard. Everytime the third ball was played, you were in fact playing the wrong ball (Rule 15) and therefore subject to penalty each time you played it. You effectively corrected your own error by playing the other two (correct) balls in completing the hole, so you would not automatically be disqualified. You did however incur a 2 stroke penalty for each time you played the third ball. Ouch. See decision 3-3/10 which deals with this situtation.
Sorry Tommy, but it sounds like you're toast.
Rule 3-3 deals with situations in strokeplay where there doubt over the correct procedure for continuing play. A player may put a second ball into play and complete the hole with both balls, record both scores for that hole with each ball and let the committee or whoever resolve the correct score after the round.
It is imperative that you announce your intention to do this with your playing partners, as you would also be required to do with a provisional ball. It must be noted however, that invoking Rule 3-3, i.e. putting a second ball into play is not a provisional ball.
Since you put a total of 3 balls into play at one time, there is a problem. Rule 3-3 only allows a second ball to be in play, not a third. Therefore your second ball in play must also be treated in the same manner as your original ball and must be played as a provisional if there is doubt of it's position, or dropped in accordance with the rules if lost or in a hazard. Everytime the third ball was played, you were in fact playing the wrong ball (Rule 15) and therefore subject to penalty each time you played it. You effectively corrected your own error by playing the other two (correct) balls in completing the hole, so you would not automatically be disqualified. You did however incur a 2 stroke penalty for each time you played the third ball. Ouch. See decision 3-3/10 which deals with this situtation.
Sorry Tommy, but it sounds like you're toast.
Most courses have a local rule that says that a ball hitting telephone wires must be replayed, i.e no choice in the matter. I agree that the original doubt cast on the rehit was probably wrng, but also that putting the third ball into play started to rack up some penalties.
One course I play at has the rule "you must rehit your shot if it hits a power wire" Even if it went in the hole, you have no option.
QUOTE (jaskanski @ Jul 19 2009, 02:15 AM) 
A lot depends on wether or not the local rule for the course allows a free drop for hitting the wires. Some do, some don't. But putting 3 balls into play is a definate no-no.
Rule 3-3 deals with situations in strokeplay where there doubt over the correct procedure for continuing play. A player may put a second ball into play and complete the hole with both balls, record both scores for that hole with each ball and let the committee or whoever resolve the correct score after the round.
It is imperative that you announce your intention to do this with your playing partners, as you would also be required to do with a provisional ball. It must be noted however, that invoking Rule 3-3, i.e. putting a second ball into play is not a provisional ball.
Since you put a total of 3 balls into play at one time, there is a problem. Rule 3-3 only allows a second ball to be in play, not a third. Therefore your second ball in play must also be treated in the same manner as your original ball and must be played as a provisional if there is doubt of it's position, or dropped in accordance with the rules if lost or in a hazard. Everytime the third ball was played, you were in fact playing the wrong ball (Rule 15) and therefore subject to penalty each time you played it. You effectively corrected your own error by playing the other two (correct) balls in completing the hole, so you would not automatically be disqualified. You did however incur a 2 stroke penalty for each time you played the third ball. Ouch. See decision 3-3/10 which deals with this situtation.
Sorry Tommy, but it sounds like you're toast.
Rule 3-3 deals with situations in strokeplay where there doubt over the correct procedure for continuing play. A player may put a second ball into play and complete the hole with both balls, record both scores for that hole with each ball and let the committee or whoever resolve the correct score after the round.
It is imperative that you announce your intention to do this with your playing partners, as you would also be required to do with a provisional ball. It must be noted however, that invoking Rule 3-3, i.e. putting a second ball into play is not a provisional ball.
Since you put a total of 3 balls into play at one time, there is a problem. Rule 3-3 only allows a second ball to be in play, not a third. Therefore your second ball in play must also be treated in the same manner as your original ball and must be played as a provisional if there is doubt of it's position, or dropped in accordance with the rules if lost or in a hazard. Everytime the third ball was played, you were in fact playing the wrong ball (Rule 15) and therefore subject to penalty each time you played it. You effectively corrected your own error by playing the other two (correct) balls in completing the hole, so you would not automatically be disqualified. You did however incur a 2 stroke penalty for each time you played the third ball. Ouch. See decision 3-3/10 which deals with this situtation.
Sorry Tommy, but it sounds like you're toast.
When I was looking this up, I ran into decision 3-3/10 also. But, that decision could cause a pretty serious problem in this case. Let's say the OP hits his shot and it hits the telephone lines. He is unsure what to do in this case (because he's not sure if the local rule has been invoked), so let's say he properly announces his intent to play a second ball. After following the second ball procedure, he hits the wires again, now what? If there is a local rule in place, then he would be required to hit that shot again. But, decision 3-3/10 says to stop. So, if he presented the case to the rules committee after the round and he didn't play a third ball, what would the ruling be? It seems like he was stuck at this point. Decision 33-8/13 would require him to rehit the shot, but decision 3-3/10 says no.
Similarly, what if you had a situation where you needed to play a second ball from the tee (and let's assume you do so properly). Then you get to the green and have another situation where you are in doubt. Decsion 3-3/10 would say tough luck. But, that just doesn't seem right to me. The decision is so absolute, but seems somewhat impractical.
Rule 3-3 does not contemplate a third ball - period. If there is any doubt as to the procedure from there, it should either be treated as a provisional ball or dropped in accordance with the rules. Otherwise, what is to stop anyone putting 5+ balls into play on the same hole? Example - I have no clue as to what is the correct procedure for this hole, so I will put 10 balls into play and record the lowest score for the result of the hole. Ridiculous. If there is any doubt, hit a provisional by all means. If there is any further doubt, an extra ball is not the solution to the problem. It it a matter of fact (in accordance with the rules) as to wether the ball is in play or not. Personally, I'd like someone to play a ball as it lies. If you're stupid enough to put it there in the first place, then you should be reasonably required to extricate the ball from that position. Just my thoughts.
One course I play at has the rule on this one hole "you must rehit your shot if it hits a power wire" but there is also two poles on that hole and if you hit either of the poles you play it as it lies.I would have checked the local course rules for that situation. If I was playing in the group and none of us knew for sure I would have considered the wires not part of the course and alowed you to rehit.I would have also told you playing three balls is a no no.
You also should be DQ'd for not clarifying with a rules official. When playing a second ball it must be addressed to the rules committee afterwards or else DQ
i am friends with a rules official for the pga tour and he said that i did the right thing. there should be no penalty and i had a par on the hole.
also, for you guys who said i should have asked a rules official. it wasn't a big tournament, just a one day shot gun event, so there weren't any real officials, just two local pros driving around trying to help the kids.
also, for you guys who said i should have asked a rules official. it wasn't a big tournament, just a one day shot gun event, so there weren't any real officials, just two local pros driving around trying to help the kids.
My opinion is that absent the local rule described in Decision 33-8/13, each time you dropped a ball and hit it you were playing under Rule 27-1a (Stroke and distance). The previous balls were lost. The reason 21-7a applies is that you did not declare that you were proceeding under Rule 3-3.
Let's pretend for a minute that you announced that you were proceeding under Rule 3-3 under the belief that you were entitled to cancel your stroke and rehit. In that case, you were correct to keep hitting balls until you finally avoided hitting the telephone wire. However, holing out every ball isn't correct - you only hole out the original ball and the ball that avoided the telephone wires. I think all the other strokes would be considered practice strokes and you would take a two stroke penalty for each practice swing.
Let's pretend for a minute that you announced that you were proceeding under Rule 3-3 under the belief that you were entitled to cancel your stroke and rehit. In that case, you were correct to keep hitting balls until you finally avoided hitting the telephone wire. However, holing out every ball isn't correct - you only hole out the original ball and the ball that avoided the telephone wires. I think all the other strokes would be considered practice strokes and you would take a two stroke penalty for each practice swing.
QUOTE (OpusX20 @ Jul 19 2009, 09:04 AM)
...
When I was looking this up, I ran into decision 3-3/10 also. But, that decision could cause a pretty serious problem in this case. Let's say the OP hits his shot and it hits the telephone lines. He is unsure what to do in this case (because he's not sure if the local rule has been invoked), so let's say he properly announces his intent to play a second ball. After following the second ball procedure, he hits the wires again, now what? If there is a local rule in place, then he would be required to hit that shot again. But, decision 3-3/10 says to stop. So, if he presented the case to the rules committee after the round and he didn't play a third ball, what would the ruling be? It seems like he was stuck at this point. Decision 33-8/13 would require him to rehit the shot, but decision 3-3/10 says no.
When I was looking this up, I ran into decision 3-3/10 also. But, that decision could cause a pretty serious problem in this case. Let's say the OP hits his shot and it hits the telephone lines. He is unsure what to do in this case (because he's not sure if the local rule has been invoked), so let's say he properly announces his intent to play a second ball. After following the second ball procedure, he hits the wires again, now what? If there is a local rule in place, then he would be required to hit that shot again. But, decision 3-3/10 says to stop. So, if he presented the case to the rules committee after the round and he didn't play a third ball, what would the ruling be? It seems like he was stuck at this point. Decision 33-8/13 would require him to rehit the shot, but decision 3-3/10 says no.
3-3 deals with doubts as to the procedure. The two procedures here are play the ball as it lies, or proceed under the presumed local rule which says to keep hitting. Hitting multiple balls is permitted because the local rule, the procedure, is to keep hitting balls. The multiple balls being hit are not additional balls under 3-3, they are multiple balls hit under the local rule.
QUOTE
Similarly, what if you had a situation where you needed to play a second ball from the tee (and let's assume you do so properly). Then you get to the green and have another situation where you are in doubt. Decsion 3-3/10 would say tough luck. But, that just doesn't seem right to me. The decision is so absolute, but seems somewhat impractical.
I think 3-3 can be invoked multiple times on the same hole. I think what Decision 3-3/10 is saying is that Rule 3-3 can not be invoked multiple times on same situation. In other words, I can invoke 3-3 on the tee and again on the green. I just can't invoke 3-3 on the tee more than one time for that particular situation.
QUOTE (tommyjewell-1994 @ Jul 20 2009, 10:37 PM)
i am friends with a rules official for the pga tour and he said that i did the right thing. there should be no penalty and i had a par on the hole.
also, for you guys who said i should have asked a rules official. it wasn't a big tournament, just a one day shot gun event, so there weren't any real officials, just two local pros driving around trying to help the kids.
also, for you guys who said i should have asked a rules official. it wasn't a big tournament, just a one day shot gun event, so there weren't any real officials, just two local pros driving around trying to help the kids.
Question 1. So you are mates with a rules official on the PGA Tour, so you come on GolfWRX and ask us instead?
Question 2. Are you sure you explained it to Slugger (your mate) correctly? Sounds to me like a situation with a bunch of penalties (exact number to be determined) all over it. I would be astonished if playing three balls out was allowed. Rules officials sometimes get it wrong too, and maybe he was just sparing your blushes since that situation will never happen again.
QUOTE (jjj912 @ Jul 21 2009, 10:44 AM)
I think 3-3 can be invoked multiple times on the same hole. I think what Decision 3-3/10 is saying is that Rule 3-3 can not be invoked multiple times on same situation. In other words, I can invoke 3-3 on the tee and again on the green. I just can't invoke 3-3 on the tee more than one time for that particular situation.
I'm no rules junkie, but this makes a hell of a lot more sense.
For those of you following along at home, there are TWO very important parts to know about when playing a second ball under Rule 3-3 (Doubt as to procedure):
"the competitor must announce to his marker or a fellow-competitor that he intends to play two balls and which ball he wishes to count if the Rules permit."
and
"The competitor must report the facts of the situation to the Committee before returning his score card. If he fails to do so, he is disqualified."
This would be the case even if the score were the same with both balls.
"the competitor must announce to his marker or a fellow-competitor that he intends to play two balls and which ball he wishes to count if the Rules permit."
and
"The competitor must report the facts of the situation to the Committee before returning his score card. If he fails to do so, he is disqualified."
This would be the case even if the score were the same with both balls.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.