I play with a group of guys who do not play golf to the exact rules. They place a ball that's in the rough up on the highest point and stuff like that.

The one that gets me more than ANYTHING is when I see someone hit a ball into a hazard and they don't take a drop on their line. They take an extra 20, 30 or 40 yards and act like they are dropping in the right spot. If I say something about it to one of them in particular he will outright say that's where his ball crossed, when he is really 40 yards back. There is no absolute evidence I can show that he's wrong but he is.

What about you guys?

moving the ball out of a divot (if on the fairway); 'gimmees' for putts about 9-12 inches away; 'breakfast balls'...

Pace of play has got to be #1 for everybody!

The commonest rules breach is probably when your buddy asks "what club did you take?" Everyone does it, wether they know they're doing it or not.

Improving your lie. My friend constantly does it. bugs me only a bit though as it causes him to tend to hit flyers.

Not adding enough (or any) penalty strokes for lost balls and OB,. The other comes out in the wash.

ya.. the gimmies if you are being technical. I bet the proper drop location is also a huge one... as is improving the lie...

Another is the ball being accidentally touched once you address the ball... almost all Amateurs do it.

If I hit a ball that ends up lost or OB. I'll drop with a 2 stroke penalty instead of returning to previous spot (or re-teeing). For the sake of time and pace of play.

This one gets my vote.

Patting down spike marks, I see it alot.

#1 in my book is "asking for or receiving advice". Pretty much anytime someone flags a shot on a par-3, someone in our group says: "nice shot, what'd you hit there?"

#2 is not holing out and taking gimme tap ins, usually to save time and for pace of play.

I was surprised to see the "touching the ball at address" I don't see that happening in the group of guys I play with.

Along with everything else mentioned, how about teeing up in front of the tee markers? I see people do this all the time.

Kudos on being concerned about pace! Our league does similar to you, but we'd only add one stroke like a lateral. All it takes is one group to delay everyone behind them while they hit their provisional, then find their ball in bounds and then have to go get their provisional ball. A waste of time that can mess up everyone behind you.

Asking/receiving advice. In my opinion is no big deal. Most of us aren't afforded the luxury of a caddy. Plus it builds up social interaction between your friends. Just don't give unsolicited advice.

A few times we've failed to find a ball, even though everyone saw it land just next to the fairway. In interest of time I've told the guy I'm playing against to drop and not take a stroke because the guys behind us are waiting. I've also rec'd the same reciprocation.

Too many golfers get hung up on every technicality and act like they are playing for a million dollars while they play a 5 hour round. As long as everyone you are competing against plays by the same "slightly bent" rules it seems okay to me.

The rule that I see violated most consistently is relief from an artifical obstruction. Every time I see someone take relief from a cart path they toss their ball to the most attractive location rather than to the nearest point of relief no closer to the hole. While I'm busy trying to figure out whether I'd rather hit off the path or drop in the three foot high grass I'm entitled to.

By the way, touching your ball with your club is not a rules violation unless it comes to rest in a different place. Just shaking it is fine, although I confess I never get near it at address for fear of moving it.

And asking for or receiving advice is not a rules violation unless you are asking a competitor. If you are playing with a friend, and not competing against him, you can consider him part of your two-perosn team, and are entitled to help each other. Bet against him though, and your talk makes you rules-violating competitors.

Ah yes, the Nicest Point of Relief, not the nearest!

In another thread, I called these type of actions "cheaty".

Tapping down spike marks
Moving the ball around (fairway or rough or after a drop)
Rake-in putts
Not counting OB or other hazards properly
Not counting lost ball penalty properly
Taking the 20, 30, 40 "bonus yards" for a drop


But... like someone else mentioned, as long as we aren't playing for money, I'm OK with everyone playing the same level of rules-bending (cheaty), however if you bend the rules, don't come and brad to me after the round about your score!

I try to abide by all the rules I can so that I know what my score is for certain, not if I bent the rules more or less during that round.

Order of play. Hands down.

-mini

If the ball is accidentally touched at address but doesn't change position there isn't a rule broken is there?

+1 I second this. if the people that I play with in my league did this I'd beat em all by 10 strokes each week. Can't stand the way old men add up there score sometimes hah.

The most common rule I see broken is the improper drop.

breakfast balls?

I think "gimmee" putts are #1. I hole out everything. I hate it when I go off as a single and get paired with people, and my lag putt is right right for a "gimmee" and they just tap my ball back to me saying its good. I just kindly ask them not to, I'd like to hole it out. Everyone always just apologizes.

I even had coaches do it to me during recruiting visits when I'm playing 9 holes with him and some of the team...I let it slide then lol

Breakfast balls is referring to hitting more than one ball off the first tee.

I have absolutely never heard of that term before. Interesting...I like it

In stroke play, isn't order of play an etiquette thing and not a rule? If I'm not mistaken, you can't be penalized or asked to replay the shot for playing out of order in a stroke play event.

I'm only asking because we do this quite a bit in our group to keep the place of play moving. If someone is looking for his ball, someone closer to the hole might play first while the others help find the ball.

The biggest violation in our group is "advice" whether yardages via a range finder or help with club selection. And of course we concede putts inside of a foot or so.

Kevin

Here's a couple from the last week...

Changing the brand of balls from hole to hole.
Grounding/touching the sand in a trap (especially like it when you see the sand in their back swing).
Having no concept of what red/yellow stakes mean defining a hazard.
Grounding a club in said hazard.
Teeing the ball outside the tee markers.
Bad drop on a ball resting on a cart path or sprinkler head. Nearest point of relief?
This one is a goody...playing with 21 clubs in a bag (had righty and lefty clubs).

I played in a senior event last week...nicest guys in the world and I smiled the entire time.

I assumed by touching the ball that he meant the ball moved which is a penalty stroke.

Now you have me checking the rules for touching the ball and it not moving but I don't know how it wouldn't move if touched.

searching...

I believe this is only a violation if a "one ball" local rule is in effect (like at a PGA tour event).

Per the rules, giving yardage is not considered offering advice. Club selection is another story.

If I'm not playing for money, I dont care what the other people in my group are going. I'll ask them what they shot on the hole, and write it down. If it makes them enjoy the round more to think they shot a 90 instead of a 110, that's fine by me. If there is money on the line, I'll count their strokes.

I think the biggest rules violation I see is gimmies and drops.

Cool. Learn something new every day. Thanks!

Kevin

Drops for hazards and proper procedure for ob balls. I don't think one of my friends knows the actual procedure for either one.

Touching the ball with the putter as said is not a penalty unless it moves from its location and doesn't return. Same goes for when the ball is in the ruff and you place your wedge behind it and the ball goes up and down but returns to the same place as in Pat Perez did earlier this year on route to winning...its possible with the putter by not tapping it just barely touching it @ address...and to think I always thought I was cheating when I was in the woods and the ball oscillated but I didn't tell anyone lol

Pat Perez at the Hope

I see players play "winter rules"....well into the late spring !

Improper drop happens all the time...They always drop it in the place more favorable like when there on a cart path or taking relief; they always chose the flat lie

Winter rules in the desert in July.... a common occurrence with the group I play with.... Ironically I am by far the weakest player in the group score wise, and get criticized by them for playing the ball as it lies.... if they didn't "tee" everyshot up I am sure our scores would be much closer.

I can't stand guys, usually 25 to 55 years old, who generally don't follow the rules, but then find it oh so important to keep their score.

Example

"I don't want to take a penalty, so I'm hitting it out of the hazard."

Right, but you just lifted your ball and placed it in a better, dryer spot. Pulled grass and weedage out to make your backswing easier.

"I'm going to drop, is this ok."

Sure, you just hit it OB, but it's perfectly fine that you hit your 3rd from 234 yards too close to the hole. You could at least hit your 4th from the drop point, but my money would be on you hitting OB again.

"You can putt first, you look ready."

Yeah, I'm ready, but your still 15 feet away and I'm 5 feet away. In fact, I'm so ready, that I am prepared for my next 10 shots.

"I don't treat it like the US Open"

Right, but you just questioned me on my score, after you teed it up past the tee markers, improved your lie for your approach, which led to you hitting it in the greenside bunker. Then, you took two practice swings in the sand, which then led to you blading the ball over the green into a lateral hazard. Then you proceeded to make a feable attempt at hitting the ball, after you hacked away at some weeds, tested the ground with your club, and improved your lie. After getting it out, barely, you then chunked it on the green, and picked up a downhill 2 footer that you would have missed for a double bogey 6 according to you, and about a 12 according to me. But you just questioned me on my legit 4. Really?

One of the best posts ive seen for a while, except the age thing as i'm 49ish. LOL
This is a polite way of saying CHEAT!!!

Question for you guy's in the US, do these type of players above still put thier cards in for hcp, if so how can your system have any credability?
I'm not trying to start an arguement and im not saying the UK methord is any better, we have problems too with cheating

Touching it is OK, moving it is not.

so true, slow golf kills me!!!!!




other than that i gotta say the 'un announced provisional off the tee after a bad first shot' ha

+1

HAHA this one is SOOOOOOOOO true my brother does it on almost EVERY hole he sees me hit a nice solid approach into the green...to be honest i didnt even know it was aginst the rules

I cant stand when people take like 5 hits off a tee box until they get that perfect draw/fade and play the 5th hit perfect drive as the first stroke! UGH!

I know I am guilty of these from time to time:

1. Moving the ball off of tree roots without penalty. Sorry, I don't feel like breaking my wrists (or club) over a round of golf. I just move it to the nearest relief. I don't give myself a open shot I wouldn't otherwise have. If I'm under a tree I make sure the "relief" is still under the tree but not on a root.
2. Playing out of turn, although I don't know if this is a rule or not. I play "ready golf"
3. Gimmes on putts of 1-2' or less occasionally, but not if it's some sort of weird big-breaking putt.
4. If we're playing summer rules, and my ball is in the middle of the fairway with a giant glob of mud on it, I'll often wipe it off on the ground.
5. If I know my ball landed in bounds for certain, but can't find it (deep rough for example) I just drop where I honestly thought it landed without penalty and play on. This happens rarely though.
6. If I hit a ball out of bounds or lose it, in a situation technically requiring me to return to the tee and hit another, I just drop and take a penalty instead of going back. In a casual, non-match round on a busy course it often isn't very practical to return to the tee and hit another drive.

Keep in mind that only maybe 2 out of 50 of my rounds are some form of match play or have money riding on them. I would never commit these infractions during such rounds. I doubt any of these would seriously change my score or handicap anyway over time.

one rule i see broken quite often and is so blatant

when ball is resting beside a bush or tree and said player postions his body to move bush so he can make free back swing

quite funny to see as they angle their backside against branch

but end of day is cheating

Moving the ball (no such thing as winter rules?)
Taking putts (it's a gimmie - not really unless it's holed)
Taking incorrect drop when ball in hazard
And last of all - slow play -

The people that I've seen doing this play for their own enjoyment, not for a handicap. I'm sure there ARE guys who do this for a handicap, but in the long run, it would only hurt them. If they ever play a handicapped tournament, they would be at a significant disadvantage.

taking preferred lies.

#1 - OB/Lost Ball

marking ball in front and then replacing ball in front of mark after...

i'm sure noone here plays by all the rules, especially if you play with buddies... asking what club you hit is against the rules, but you can always look in their bag which is not against the rules as long as you don't remove a towel or something to see what's missing...

obviously there are fluffers everywhere as well, which is really annoying when comparing scores... a fluffed 75 doesn't compare to a down 82 IMO...

Agree with all the preferred lies, just dropping a ball oob and the other common ones above.

The thing I see quite often is people carrying more than 14 clubs in their bag. I never used to pay attention, but looked about a month ago at my buddies bag 16 clubs. Seems like every other bag I see has too many clubs.

From the tee box, spray a drive OB (not hazard), drop like it was a red stake.

I see many, many violations, but I have to divide them into categories.

Some are violations based on ignorance. Some are based on speed-of-play. And some rules violations are out of a desire to avoid a penalty rationalized as 'not fair.'

All that said, I do feel there is this huge disconnect between The Rules and *most* golfers. You don't see that in, say, tennis (maybe 'first-serve-in'), or soccer, or bowling, or....