I was sitting at the 19th after a very average round and the final day of the Wales Open was on TV. A few members in the bar starting saying things like 'What an embarrasment that course is going to be', 'Nice hotel, great food, terrible course!' 'Played it and was very disappointed.' (There were also a few more comments using some more 'industrial language' but i'll leave those to your imaginations)
Has anybody played the course? What did you think of it?
In addition, what type of course would you like you see Ryders Cups in Europe played on?
Full Version: 2010 Ryder Cup - Celtic Manor an embarrasment
I played a few of the holes when it was the old Wentwood hills course. I think here are a few average holes on the new course like 4 and 10 but i don't think the ryder cup is about that, it's a good spectators course which is what it was designed for. Also there are a few risk reward holes like 15 which will provide good tv when the ryder cup comes around.
As for other courses. . . i work at the belfry so im biased, maybe the course where they play the french open would be good?
As for other courses. . . i work at the belfry so im biased, maybe the course where they play the french open would be good?
This will be a good Matchplay course,some short holes and some reacable par 5's.
Other Ryder cup course are the same,if you ever play at the Belfry the Brabazon course is not brill,it also has some great short holes but is mostly remembered for a couple of holes,the other's you forget about.The PGA course at the Belfry is a much better overall course
The 2010 will be the same remembered for a couple of hole's
Other Ryder cup course are the same,if you ever play at the Belfry the Brabazon course is not brill,it also has some great short holes but is mostly remembered for a couple of holes,the other's you forget about.The PGA course at the Belfry is a much better overall course
The 2010 will be the same remembered for a couple of hole's
Agreed. There is no definition to the course. It looks like a farm with 18 flagsticks randomly scattered. Once again some entrepreneur has made the European Tour an offer they can't refuse. The Belfry was the same. There are hundreds of top class, established courses around these islands.
The Ryder Cup is in early October next year - what might it be like if they get some wet weather, was this a good idea or what?
When we were there last October we were fog delayed for 4 hours.
I know they have another 15 months and unlimited cash to improve the drainage, but surely it's risky to play the RC there?
I have heard a rumour that they have The Belfry on standby for October 2010 just in case.
I don't understand why in Europe we only use resort courses owned by multi-millionaires (K Club, Celtic Manor), when in the US they generally use courses they have held major championships on (Hazeltine, Brookline, Oakland Hills etc)
The Belfry is possibly one of the worst courses on the rotor. There are 2 decent holes in 10 and 18, the rest is VERY average. But its not about the quality of the course its just about room and ease of access etc.
QUOTE (kylemacca01 @ Jun 9 2009, 07:58 PM) 
The Belfry is possibly one of the worst courses on the rotor. There are 2 decent holes in 10 and 18, the rest is VERY average. But its not about the quality of the course its just about room and ease of access etc.
I am not sure I agree.
I think the 10th and 18th are also very average.
I noticed the par 5's at Celtic Manor aren't short....566, 575, 588 and 620 I think...That to me doesn't make for exciting risk reward golf. I'd imagine October in Wales is cool and wet.
The course looked like a good layout just not sure if it will meet standards of the players.
The course looked like a good layout just not sure if it will meet standards of the players.
Thanks to crimnal underinvestment in sponsorship for English-based professional golf, the Belfy isn't on the rota anymore. Hopefully the British Masters will return there in one form or another, but for now the nation that boasts the world's No. 3 golfer has a dearth of tournaments that's scandalous.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 9 2009, 08:14 PM)
Thanks to crimnal underinvestment in sponsorship for English-based professional golf, the Belfy isn't on the rota anymore. Hopefully the British Masters will return there in one form or another, but for now the nation that boasts the world's No. 3 golfer has a dearth of tournaments that's scandalous.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
Mat
I have played it a few times. My issue is that the feature holes are a bit stupid and the rest is very dull. Celtic Manor (which I have never played) does have a certain resemblance.
I agree that courses like Walton Heath, Sunningdale, Woburn, St George's Hill, The Berkshire etc etc are much much better courses than either The Belfry or Celtic Manor.
Some worthy courses in Northern France and the low countries too.
Lord knows what Pavin thought? For some reason the PGA, who run the RC in conjunction with The European Tour seem to pander to money first, secon, third etc. They would play the event in a swamp if the money was right. 2014 won't be any better. Gleneagles has 2 wonderful, scenic and challenging old courses, the Kings and Queens. So lets play it on the bloody dreadful slogfest new course that Nicklaus once flew over on his way to St Andrews.
Celtic Manor is a minger. When the revised course opened last year it was massacred by the British press. Boring, bland, wet in summer, hard walking for spectators. No hole was rated better than 3/5 by Today's Golfer.
If you ever visit Wales play Tenby, Royal Porthcawl, Conwy or for a real treat Royal St Davids, a glorious track for a mere £50 a round.
Celtic Manor is a minger. When the revised course opened last year it was massacred by the British press. Boring, bland, wet in summer, hard walking for spectators. No hole was rated better than 3/5 by Today's Golfer.
If you ever visit Wales play Tenby, Royal Porthcawl, Conwy or for a real treat Royal St Davids, a glorious track for a mere £50 a round.
Martin.
Sorry mate. That comment wasn't directed at you (or anyone else, really) as much as it was at the gits in the gents' bar at my place who were loudly bemoaning pretty much everything, Belfry included, during one of their Set The World To Rights conversations last week. One to which everyone's invited (to listen, anyway) whether or not they want to. The conversation turned to the inevitible failure of the team and the venue whilst I was within earshot - and, despite the course being panned for all sorts of reasons by our sages, I know for a fact that none of them have ever set a foot on the fairways there. Not that they see much of the fairways at our place either, mind.
If it's any consolation, I don't reckon all that much to it myself as a course, albeit I do reckon it made a decent Ryder Cup venue on the one occasion I was lucky enough to go. Sorry if my comment came off a bit too sharp or that it was singling anyone out. Apart from those gits.
As for other tracks, I'd agree that one of the linksy-type venues in The Netherlands or Sweden would be brilliant venues and would also better reflect the multinationality of the team these days rather than simply hogging it in the UK as we Brits have a tendency to do. Ireland was a great success in the form of the K Club - Irish weather excepted - and I always felt that Valderrama was more of a salute to Seve, whose star as a player was well on the wane by '97, than it was a nod to European golf as a whole and that a return to a continental venue would be a nice touch for the near future. France has a great venue in Le Golf National and Spain has other great tracks besides Valderrama. Germany also has a couple of top tier courses too that would very nicely fit into the Ryder Cup way of things.
To be fair, I'm more concerned about the shambolic goings-on up at Turnberry than than I am about 2010. Whilst there's plenty of time to address issues in Wales, there's now precious little to sort out the mess up at Turnberry.
Sorry mate. That comment wasn't directed at you (or anyone else, really) as much as it was at the gits in the gents' bar at my place who were loudly bemoaning pretty much everything, Belfry included, during one of their Set The World To Rights conversations last week. One to which everyone's invited (to listen, anyway) whether or not they want to. The conversation turned to the inevitible failure of the team and the venue whilst I was within earshot - and, despite the course being panned for all sorts of reasons by our sages, I know for a fact that none of them have ever set a foot on the fairways there. Not that they see much of the fairways at our place either, mind.
If it's any consolation, I don't reckon all that much to it myself as a course, albeit I do reckon it made a decent Ryder Cup venue on the one occasion I was lucky enough to go. Sorry if my comment came off a bit too sharp or that it was singling anyone out. Apart from those gits.
As for other tracks, I'd agree that one of the linksy-type venues in The Netherlands or Sweden would be brilliant venues and would also better reflect the multinationality of the team these days rather than simply hogging it in the UK as we Brits have a tendency to do. Ireland was a great success in the form of the K Club - Irish weather excepted - and I always felt that Valderrama was more of a salute to Seve, whose star as a player was well on the wane by '97, than it was a nod to European golf as a whole and that a return to a continental venue would be a nice touch for the near future. France has a great venue in Le Golf National and Spain has other great tracks besides Valderrama. Germany also has a couple of top tier courses too that would very nicely fit into the Ryder Cup way of things.
To be fair, I'm more concerned about the shambolic goings-on up at Turnberry than than I am about 2010. Whilst there's plenty of time to address issues in Wales, there's now precious little to sort out the mess up at Turnberry.
QUOTE (mjtoal @ Jun 9 2009, 08:30 PM)
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 9 2009, 08:14 PM)
Thanks to crimnal underinvestment in sponsorship for English-based professional golf, the Belfy isn't on the rota anymore. Hopefully the British Masters will return there in one form or another, but for now the nation that boasts the world's No. 3 golfer has a dearth of tournaments that's scandalous.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
Mat
I have played it a few times. My issue is that the feature holes are a bit stupid and the rest is very dull. Celtic Manor (which I have never played) does have a certain resemblance.
I agree that courses like Walton Heath, Sunningdale, Woburn, St George's Hill, The Berkshire etc etc are much much better courses than either The Belfry or Celtic Manor.
Some worthy courses in Northern France and the low countries too.
I agree with most of the posts on this thread.
However it all sadly comes down to MONEY and 40,000 fans a day. I can't see great golf course's like The Berkshire etc being able to cope.
QUOTE (elwhippy @ Jun 9 2009, 03:41 PM)
Lord knows what Pavin thought? For some reason the PGA, who run the RC in conjunction with The European Tour seem to pander to money first, secon, third etc. They would play the event in a swamp if the money was right. 2014 won't be any better. Gleneagles has 2 wonderful, scenic and challenging old courses, the Kings and Queens. So lets play it on the bloody dreadful slogfest new course that Nicklaus once flew over on his way to St Andrews.
Celtic Manor is a minger. When the revised course opened last year it was massacred by the British press. Boring, bland, wet in summer, hard walking for spectators. No hole was rated better than 3/5 by Today's Golfer.
If you ever visit Wales play Tenby, Royal Porthcawl, Conwy or for a real treat Royal St Davids, a glorious track for a mere £50 a round.
Celtic Manor is a minger. When the revised course opened last year it was massacred by the British press. Boring, bland, wet in summer, hard walking for spectators. No hole was rated better than 3/5 by Today's Golfer.
If you ever visit Wales play Tenby, Royal Porthcawl, Conwy or for a real treat Royal St Davids, a glorious track for a mere £50 a round.
Don't let the PGA of America off the hook. They keep using Valhalla (which is owned by the PGA of America) for major events - it's not exactly Oakmont or Pinehurst as far as championship courses go.
QUOTE (Golf Monkey @ Jun 9 2009, 12:10 PM)
Agreed. There is no definition to the course. It looks like a farm with 18 flagsticks randomly scattered. Once again some entrepreneur has made the European Tour an offer they can't refuse. The Belfry was the same. There are hundreds of top class, established courses around these islands.
This coming from someone from Hoylake? Flat as a pancake, and even duller! Well kept grazing land IMO.
I agree with most of whats being said here. There are some course layouts which dont deserve to get an event like the Ryder Cup or a Major. The post about Gleneagles is spot on. The PGA centerary is pretty poor and even though it will be improved for the Ryder Cup there is no doubt the other two courses are better layouts. However apart from the practice range the facilitys at Gleneagles are fantastic and it will be a special weekend. I cant really comment on Celtic Manor as i have not played it but it certainly does'nt look great. I would like to see Ryder Cups played on proper links courses. Not many of them have the infrastructure to support such an event though which a real shame.
Look guys the ryder cup isn't about the course or the money. its about two great nations going toe to toe in the greatest sporting event there is THE RYDER CUP.
it could be played on a spud patch in your own back garden and you'll still get the team spirit, the camoradory and two teams playing for one thing......their countries name on the trophy.
i for one am looking forward to the 2010 ryder cup and i may only live 20miles from the course but i like all the other europeans and supporters of this great game we love and enjoy will be cheering our guys on to bring back the trophy to our european shores......
come on monty bring it back home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it could be played on a spud patch in your own back garden and you'll still get the team spirit, the camoradory and two teams playing for one thing......their countries name on the trophy.
i for one am looking forward to the 2010 ryder cup and i may only live 20miles from the course but i like all the other europeans and supporters of this great game we love and enjoy will be cheering our guys on to bring back the trophy to our european shores......
come on monty bring it back home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think choosing the right tees is going to be very important in adding to the excitement, no pressure Monty! They need to be right on the limit of where the guys can reach in two. Two of the par 5s this past week could have been moved back even further which is just not necessery, I didn't see anybody reach the 2nd or 11th in two all weekend, although some got in a lot of trouble trying.
The course reminds me a lot of the Belfry and I think the last 8 holes suit matchplay really well. The 11th is a Par 5 with water all up the left, the 12th they have to carry water and hit towards it off of the tee, 13th is a par 3 all over water, 14th again water has to be carried off of the tee whilst hitting towards another lake that also has to be carried for the second, 15th is a drivable par 4, 16 is a nearly 500 yard par 4 albeit down hill for the second, looked quite tough, 17th is a par three with quite a deep green, could play long or short, and the 18th is a par 5 with teh second over water, all sounds very matchplayesque. Welsh Open wise I think it played better last year when the weather was better and the ball was carrying further.
From a spectators peoint of view there are lots of areas to watch from and you can see play on more than one hole at once in places, a lot of the course is flat, although it's a killer walking up the valley at the end of the day for the closing holes, plus the really need to improve the drainage. On Saturday I was expecting the flat holes 1-14 to be soaked, but they weren't too bad, all of the water held up on the valley especially in the spectators areas, not much fun.
I do agree with the geenral setiments that despite suffering Opens with horrific weather in July the last few years, holding it in October is just asking for weather interruptions, and it would be great to see it back on a links or heathland course that actually represents British golf and might give the Europeans some sort of advantage, not a soggy US parkland style course with a corporate backer and nice hotel. But that won't happen, wouldn't be surprised if its at St Mellion on 2018.
The course reminds me a lot of the Belfry and I think the last 8 holes suit matchplay really well. The 11th is a Par 5 with water all up the left, the 12th they have to carry water and hit towards it off of the tee, 13th is a par 3 all over water, 14th again water has to be carried off of the tee whilst hitting towards another lake that also has to be carried for the second, 15th is a drivable par 4, 16 is a nearly 500 yard par 4 albeit down hill for the second, looked quite tough, 17th is a par three with quite a deep green, could play long or short, and the 18th is a par 5 with teh second over water, all sounds very matchplayesque. Welsh Open wise I think it played better last year when the weather was better and the ball was carrying further.
From a spectators peoint of view there are lots of areas to watch from and you can see play on more than one hole at once in places, a lot of the course is flat, although it's a killer walking up the valley at the end of the day for the closing holes, plus the really need to improve the drainage. On Saturday I was expecting the flat holes 1-14 to be soaked, but they weren't too bad, all of the water held up on the valley especially in the spectators areas, not much fun.
I do agree with the geenral setiments that despite suffering Opens with horrific weather in July the last few years, holding it in October is just asking for weather interruptions, and it would be great to see it back on a links or heathland course that actually represents British golf and might give the Europeans some sort of advantage, not a soggy US parkland style course with a corporate backer and nice hotel. But that won't happen, wouldn't be surprised if its at St Mellion on 2018.
Steady on mate. I won't hear a bad word said about the beloved St Mellion. 
I've played a lot of golf there, mainly in my younger days, and love every yard of it. Plus my father's a Cornishman. I've long thought that it was a natural choice for a Ryder Cup venue - albeit the fact it's a bit off the beaten track at Callington means it's frowned upon by the townies. It's amazing, to me, that it's found it's way to Wales really - Druids Glen, as it is, not being an easy drive from London as seems to be a prerequisite for any major sporting event on our fair isle, Open Championship perhaps excepted.
I've played a lot of golf there, mainly in my younger days, and love every yard of it. Plus my father's a Cornishman. I've long thought that it was a natural choice for a Ryder Cup venue - albeit the fact it's a bit off the beaten track at Callington means it's frowned upon by the townies. It's amazing, to me, that it's found it's way to Wales really - Druids Glen, as it is, not being an easy drive from London as seems to be a prerequisite for any major sporting event on our fair isle, Open Championship perhaps excepted.
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 9 2009, 02:14 PM)
Thanks to crimnal underinvestment in sponsorship for English-based professional golf, the Belfy isn't on the rota anymore. Hopefully the British Masters will return there in one form or another, but for now the nation that boasts the world's No. 3 golfer has a dearth of tournaments that's scandalous.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
The Belfy isn't a fantastic course - unlike many who rubbish it, I've actually played there; are you listening old gits at my club who have rubbished it for years without ever setting foot into Warwickshire? - but it raises its game and invariably proves equal to the task of hosting the Ryder Cup. I think Celtic Manor will be much of the same; a big, stadium-style course that accomodates the fans and provides a bit of theatre via a couple of 'exciting' holes. As well as the course itself though, there are myriad other factors to consider when the Ryder Cup comes to town and those have to borne in mind when a decision is made - as well as how big the manilla envelope is. As for the weather; where in the UK is anything other than dicey, weather-wise, in autumn?
Personally, I'd like to see a European venue brought into the mix again. Given their contribution to Ryder Cups past, Sweden would be an obvious choice, but that autumn weather's again not likely to play ball for the week. That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.
Personally, I think I'll resrve judgement until a bit nearer the time.
Played the faldo series at walton heath and IMO that would make a great venue because of the tough front nine and easier back (old course, i didn't play new), think of it, few matches to go to decide it and you got 3 reachable par 5's, good par 3s and tricky par 4's (only problem not much space at that course and the range is a TRECK). thats my opinion anyway! ,
Jack x.
Jack, I like the cut of your jib. If one of us can find a way onto the PGA's commitee, we may be able to swing it.
We've got some of the best heathland tracks there are in this country (aside from all the great links that we share with Ireland and the Scots) and they're sadly a thing of the past now - at least as far as professional tournament/championship golf is concerned. Walton Heath has stood up very well to the rigors of modern equipment and its effect upon the game and is still a top tier venue - as recognised by the USGA. I hope (and believe) that Celtic Manor will put on a fine show, but I'd love to see one of the old gems like Walton Heath brought back into the fray. Hopefully without the same result as last time around in '81. That said, the fact that a regular tournament is already held at Celtic Manor has to be a good thing. It gives them a leg up regarding course set-ups, agronomy, pin placements etc. that should hopefully preclude many of the potential teething troubles that could otherwise surface come 2010.
As much as many of us would like to see a classic venue though, sadly, the current vogue seems to be discount anything 'old' for a new-build course with a big hotel plonked beside it. New money talks by the looks of it. Yes, the cheque's a big incentive, but the event would be a financial success story for the PGA wherever it was taken when the TV rights and merchandising are taken into account. As someone above alluded to, when it's on the other side of the pond it's taken to premier venues that are well-established (Kiawah being an exception on the 'established' part) and it's a shame that we don't showcase some of our older, finer venues if we're going to keep the thing in Britain. Some of the very best courses sadly lack the infrastructure for an event like the Ryder Cup - but a lot of others don't.
Hopefully Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, The Netherlands and Sweden will all get a fair crack of the whip in years to come and we'll see some of the best that they can offer too. As Martin said, some of the low countries' and Scandinavia's links courses are fantastic tracks and a Ryder Cup on one of them would no doubt be a first class afffair and properly recognise the European contribution to the event whilst promoting the sport to a wider audience. The ladies showed such foresight with the Solheim Cup; sadly the blazers at the PGA haven't been as adventurous (Valderrama aside). Pity.
Whilst I'm at it, why wasn't Sandy given a crack at the captaincy either?
We've got some of the best heathland tracks there are in this country (aside from all the great links that we share with Ireland and the Scots) and they're sadly a thing of the past now - at least as far as professional tournament/championship golf is concerned. Walton Heath has stood up very well to the rigors of modern equipment and its effect upon the game and is still a top tier venue - as recognised by the USGA. I hope (and believe) that Celtic Manor will put on a fine show, but I'd love to see one of the old gems like Walton Heath brought back into the fray. Hopefully without the same result as last time around in '81. That said, the fact that a regular tournament is already held at Celtic Manor has to be a good thing. It gives them a leg up regarding course set-ups, agronomy, pin placements etc. that should hopefully preclude many of the potential teething troubles that could otherwise surface come 2010.
As much as many of us would like to see a classic venue though, sadly, the current vogue seems to be discount anything 'old' for a new-build course with a big hotel plonked beside it. New money talks by the looks of it. Yes, the cheque's a big incentive, but the event would be a financial success story for the PGA wherever it was taken when the TV rights and merchandising are taken into account. As someone above alluded to, when it's on the other side of the pond it's taken to premier venues that are well-established (Kiawah being an exception on the 'established' part) and it's a shame that we don't showcase some of our older, finer venues if we're going to keep the thing in Britain. Some of the very best courses sadly lack the infrastructure for an event like the Ryder Cup - but a lot of others don't.
Hopefully Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, The Netherlands and Sweden will all get a fair crack of the whip in years to come and we'll see some of the best that they can offer too. As Martin said, some of the low countries' and Scandinavia's links courses are fantastic tracks and a Ryder Cup on one of them would no doubt be a first class afffair and properly recognise the European contribution to the event whilst promoting the sport to a wider audience. The ladies showed such foresight with the Solheim Cup; sadly the blazers at the PGA haven't been as adventurous (Valderrama aside). Pity.
Whilst I'm at it, why wasn't Sandy given a crack at the captaincy either?
QUOTE (jowwy @ Jun 9 2009, 10:24 PM)
Look guys the ryder cup isn't about the course or the money. its about two great nations going toe to toe in the greatest sporting event there is THE RYDER CUP.
it could be played on a spud patch in your own back garden and you'll still get the team spirit, the camoradory and two teams playing for one thing......their countries name on the trophy.
i for one am looking forward to the 2010 ryder cup and i may only live 20miles from the course but i like all the other europeans and supporters of this great game we love and enjoy will be cheering our guys on to bring back the trophy to our european shores......
come on monty bring it back home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it could be played on a spud patch in your own back garden and you'll still get the team spirit, the camoradory and two teams playing for one thing......their countries name on the trophy.
i for one am looking forward to the 2010 ryder cup and i may only live 20miles from the course but i like all the other europeans and supporters of this great game we love and enjoy will be cheering our guys on to bring back the trophy to our european shores......
come on monty bring it back home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course we all realise it is about the money, and drama can take place on any track. If the Ryder Cup was played on a local municipal, but the fairway was seeded with landmines so players could explode at any time, or snipers took shots from long range while the players played their shots, that would be very dramatic, but maybe not great golf.
Ironically, Walton Heath, much praised here as a possible if unlikely venue, and the USGA's choice for US Open qualifying, only hosted the famed 1981 RC when The Belfry failed to be ready.
QUOTE (jowwy @ Jun 9 2009, 10:24 PM)
Look guys the ryder cup isn't about the course or the money. its about two great nations going toe to toe in the greatest sporting event there is THE RYDER CUP.
it could be played on a spud patch in your own back garden and you'll still get the team spirit, the camoradory and two teams playing for one thing......their countries name on the trophy.
i for one am looking forward to the 2010 ryder cup and i may only live 20miles from the course but i like all the other europeans and supporters of this great game we love and enjoy will be cheering our guys on to bring back the trophy to our european shores......
come on monty bring it back home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it could be played on a spud patch in your own back garden and you'll still get the team spirit, the camoradory and two teams playing for one thing......their countries name on the trophy.
i for one am looking forward to the 2010 ryder cup and i may only live 20miles from the course but i like all the other europeans and supporters of this great game we love and enjoy will be cheering our guys on to bring back the trophy to our european shores......
come on monty bring it back home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course we all realise it is about the money, and drama can take place on any track. If the Ryder Cup was played on a local municipal, but the fairway was seeded with landmines so players could explode at any time, or snipers took shots from long range while the players played their shots, that would be very dramatic, but maybe not great golf.
Ironically, Walton Heath, much praised here as a possible if unlikely venue, and the USGA's choice for US Open qualifying, only hosted the famed 1981 RC when The Belfry failed to be ready.
Who cares? We're still 'gonna give those yanks a trouncing!
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 9 2009, 08:14 PM)
...... That said, I'd love to see a return to a classic old course like Wentworth or Walton Heath too. That's about as likely to happen as the matches being played at Royal Melbourne though.....
I was at The European Open in Walton Heath in 1989 and it would be fantastic to see pro golf played there again.
....I can still remember the ball flight with Persimmon drivers like it was yesterday
Surely Walton Heath doesn't have the infrastructure to hold a modern Ryder Cup? When it was played there in 1981 it probably got attendances of 1 or 2 thousand at most.
Also I bet it wouldn't be interested, times have changed. I read that when it was held there in 1981 they charged the PGA 20,000 pounds to host it.
Nowadays multi-millionaires are throwing cash at the PGA.
Presumably the Open rota courses wouldn't host it for the same reasons, and they wouldn't need the kudos a Ryder Cup brings anyway.
Also I bet it wouldn't be interested, times have changed. I read that when it was held there in 1981 they charged the PGA 20,000 pounds to host it.
Nowadays multi-millionaires are throwing cash at the PGA.
Presumably the Open rota courses wouldn't host it for the same reasons, and they wouldn't need the kudos a Ryder Cup brings anyway.
QUOTE (Señor Rafa @ Jun 10 2009, 01:15 AM)
Who cares? We're still 'gonna give those yanks a trouncing!
And this is why I love the Ryder Cup, LOL!!!!! Cory, round up the redneck, white and blue squad, Sergio needs some more schooling!!!!
QUOTE (Seanmx @ Jun 10 2009, 11:18 AM)
I was at The European Open in Walton Heath in 1989 and it would be fantastic to see pro golf played there again.
....I can still remember the ball flight with Persimmon drivers like it was yesterday
....I can still remember the ball flight with Persimmon drivers like it was yesterday
And the even-then-greying Andrew Murray clonking it round to victory with his eye 2s...
I don't know a thing about Celtic Manor, but I went online and found three courses, one of which was called The Twenty Ten. The website made it seem as if it was built specifically for the Ryder Cup. Is this the course that everyone is referring to?
QUOTE (vaca22 @ Jun 10 2009, 03:32 PM)
I don't know a thing about Celtic Manor, but I went online and found three courses, one of which was called The Twenty Ten. The website made it seem as if it was built specifically for the Ryder Cup. Is this the course that everyone is referring to?
Yes.
Come on you guys......
Most of the posts here are from our English brothers, but remember, golf in the UK is WAY different than golf in the US - a good different!
Ryder Cup courses are about scoring. Celtic Manor has alot of opportunities to score whether it is long drives, or great iron play.....plus there appears to be alot of chances for OB situations.
I think CM is a great venue for the Ryder Cup, especailly being in Wales, somewhere different for a change.
Go Europe!
PS- If Darren Clarke gets screwed out of playing on the team this year I'm going to be very put out! I would also love to see a Sergio Garcia / Alvaro Quiros combo.
Most of the posts here are from our English brothers, but remember, golf in the UK is WAY different than golf in the US - a good different!
Ryder Cup courses are about scoring. Celtic Manor has alot of opportunities to score whether it is long drives, or great iron play.....plus there appears to be alot of chances for OB situations.
I think CM is a great venue for the Ryder Cup, especailly being in Wales, somewhere different for a change.
Go Europe!
PS- If Darren Clarke gets screwed out of playing on the team this year I'm going to be very put out! I would also love to see a Sergio Garcia / Alvaro Quiros combo.
I was a little shocked when I saw the course on TV last weekend. I do not think it looks good at all. Ok, the Ryder Cup Matches are exciting as an event per se, but I certainly would have wished for a venue that looks better and has more of an atmosphere. To me, the fairways and greens just looked like the were randomly scattered through the landscape.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, everytime somebody asks:
I want to see a Ryder Cup at Wentworth, West Course. It is just such a perfect course for matchplay and because of the way the holes are built, every hole is a stadium all by itself. It would be the best venue, I think, if it has to be on the British isles. Weather will always be a problem there in late September/early October.
Other than that, I agree that Golf Club de France would also be a great course.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, everytime somebody asks:
I want to see a Ryder Cup at Wentworth, West Course. It is just such a perfect course for matchplay and because of the way the holes are built, every hole is a stadium all by itself. It would be the best venue, I think, if it has to be on the British isles. Weather will always be a problem there in late September/early October.
Other than that, I agree that Golf Club de France would also be a great course.
QUOTE (kylemacca01 @ Jun 9 2009, 06:58 PM)
The Belfry is possibly one of the worst courses on the rotor. There are 2 decent holes in 10 and 18, the rest is VERY average. But its not about the quality of the course its just about room and ease of access etc.
I agree. I played it recently and was very disappointed. I've played infinitely better courses in the US and Canada, several of which are pretty much unheard of and cost less than a third of the price. If I wasn't impressed, I can't imagine Tiger and his chums being particularly blown away by it.
What's sad from a Ryder Cup point of view is that the UK does have some of the best courses in the world, mostly of the links variety. For whatever reason these don't seem to be considered as potential venues though.
I have played the course prior to the 2010 changes. I really liked it, reachable par 4's and plenty of water.
The resort is fantastic and the course it self will be great for spectators as the course is built within a valley and a number of holes can be viewed from a single spot.
The resort is fantastic and the course it self will be great for spectators as the course is built within a valley and a number of holes can be viewed from a single spot.
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 9 2009, 12:50 PM)
To be fair, I'm more concerned about the shambolic goings-on up at Turnberry than than I am about 2010. Whilst there's plenty of time to address issues in Wales, there's now precious little to sort out the mess up at Turnberry.
Not to get off topic, but seriously, what's the shambolic goings-on at Turnberry. Only a bit of a month to go, I hear the course is looking immaculate. But I also hear a few rumblings that if the weather is good, the scoring will be low.
The shambles is more centred around renovations at the hotel. Since the owners have had several years' worth of notice that the Open Championship was coming to Turnberry this July, the fact that renovations to the hotel and associated facilities are still not finished, hideously behind schedule and have thus caused the R&A to rely on a cointingency plan with standby venues in case it all goes totally to pot is embarassing at best and scandalously incompetent at worst. Heads should roll but, needless to say, they probably won't.
We managed to rebuild the place after it was turned into an airfield and a military hospital during the war, despite a lack of funding, but when it comes to hanging a few new curtains at the hotel and giving the place a lick of paint, insouciance on the part of the owners mean that it's seemingly impossible to work to any sort of a timetable even when the biggest show in golf is due to arrive on a specific date. What a sorry state of affairs and a poor reflection upon our country that we can't get a job done on time these days when the world and his dog are watching. God help us with the Olympics. Perhaps Paris and Berlin can be put on standby for that?
We managed to rebuild the place after it was turned into an airfield and a military hospital during the war, despite a lack of funding, but when it comes to hanging a few new curtains at the hotel and giving the place a lick of paint, insouciance on the part of the owners mean that it's seemingly impossible to work to any sort of a timetable even when the biggest show in golf is due to arrive on a specific date. What a sorry state of affairs and a poor reflection upon our country that we can't get a job done on time these days when the world and his dog are watching. God help us with the Olympics. Perhaps Paris and Berlin can be put on standby for that?
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 10 2009, 03:14 AM)
Hopefully Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, The Netherlands and Sweden will all get a fair crack of the whip in years to come and we'll see some of the best that they can offer too. As Martin said, some of the low countries' and Scandinavia's links courses are fantastic tracks and a Ryder Cup on one of them would no doubt be a first class afffair and properly recognise the European contribution to the event whilst promoting the sport to a wider audience. The ladies showed such foresight with the Solheim Cup; sadly the blazers at the PGA haven't been as adventurous (Valderrama aside). Pity.
Whilst I'm at it, why wasn't Sandy given a crack at the captaincy either?
Whilst I'm at it, why wasn't Sandy given a crack at the captaincy either?
Well if you take at look at this brand new top class venue just outside Stockholm and take into consideration that the venue for 2018 is still not decided and the course will get to test it self against the (next)best in Scandinavian Masters, it's a fair bet that it could be the place to go in 2018
http://www.brohofslott.se/en/
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 11 2009, 02:16 AM)
The shambles is more centred around renovations at the hotel. Since the owners have had several years' worth of notice that the Open Championship was coming to Turnberry this July, the fact that renovations to the hotel and associated facilities are still not finished, hideously behind schedule and have thus caused the R&A to rely on a cointingency plan with standby venues in case it all goes totally to pot is embarassing at best and scandalously incompetent at worst. Heads should roll but, needless to say, they probably won't.
We managed to rebuild the place after it was turned into an airfield and a military hospital during the war, despite a lack of funding, but when it comes to hanging a few new curtains at the hotel and giving the place a lick of paint, insouciance on the part of the owners mean that it's seemingly impossible to work to any sort of a timetable even when the biggest show in golf is due to arrive on a specific date. What a sorry state of affairs and a poor reflection upon our country that we can't get a job done on time these days when the world and his dog are watching. God help us with the Olympics. Perhaps Paris and Berlin can be put on standby for that?
We managed to rebuild the place after it was turned into an airfield and a military hospital during the war, despite a lack of funding, but when it comes to hanging a few new curtains at the hotel and giving the place a lick of paint, insouciance on the part of the owners mean that it's seemingly impossible to work to any sort of a timetable even when the biggest show in golf is due to arrive on a specific date. What a sorry state of affairs and a poor reflection upon our country that we can't get a job done on time these days when the world and his dog are watching. God help us with the Olympics. Perhaps Paris and Berlin can be put on standby for that?
Mat,
You may have forgotten that Turnberry was bought over by Leisurecorp around 12-18months ago. I believe they were shocked by how run down the hotel was, regarding it as a 3 star. I have been told only half the rooms will be renovated in time for the Open and the rest done afterwards. I was down at Turnberry a couple of weeks ago and preperations on course seemed to be full steam ahead on the course with grandstands etc going up.
I would imagine the owners are as concerne as yourself at how tight the time schedule has become, but they were also taken over a couple of weeks ago and maybe that has added to the scenario.
With regards to the Ryder Cup I think it's scandolous that it hasn't been played on a links course for so long. these are the courses that we are famed for and yet we constantly play on parkland type courses. Also that time of year we wouldn't be having the worries about drainage associated with CM and Gleneagles. The PGA course gets very wet, although again it has plenty of space for spectators. Unfortunately wouldn't wentworth and the like struggle to cope with the 40.000 - 50,000 a day that attend the Ryder Cup. Ballybunion or Portmarnock would be fantastic venues along with all our Open courses.
QUOTE (hoganboy @ Jun 16 2009, 01:43 PM)
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 11 2009, 02:16 AM)
The shambles is more centred around renovations at the hotel. Since the owners have had several years' worth of notice that the Open Championship was coming to Turnberry this July,
Mat,
You may have forgotten that Turnberry was bought over by Leisurecorp around 12-18months ago. I believe they were shocked by how run down the hotel was, regarding it as a 3 star.
Leisurecorp completed on the deal at the end of October 2008, so couldn't start work until Nov 1st. On that basis they have not had a few years of notice. That said, you hardly buy an asset for £50m and announce you're going to spend a further £30m on it without extensive poking around first and they will have had a detailed plan to refurbish it, so they can hardly claim to have been shocked by the state it was in either. Nevertheless, 8 months to refurbish a property of that size is going some and could be said to have been over-ambitious at the time. The course I am told is in magnificent shape (by my brother who played it last week).
Fair point about Turnberry and its many changes of ownership. It's always been on the back foot luck-wise since the days when it was owned by British Rail and pressed into wartime service. That said, ultimately Leisurecorp knew full well what they were buying when they signed on the dotted line - and they also had a very clear timeline to the Open being held there which, presumably, played a major role in the decision to invest in the property. To not have things anywhere approaching completion when you've got a very definite schedule to work to based around a major sporting event that's been set in stone for some years is simply an example of managerial incompetence and inefficiency in my opinion.
You can dress it up however you like, but it boils down to people not doing their job properly and having a slapdash attitude towards a major project that's very much in the public eye. I'm expected to hit targets and to live with time pressures in my job and someone, somewhere, who's presumably paid a lot more money I am and supposedly a managerial professional should have been on top of things and 1) realising that things weren't as they should be long ago; and 2) taking positive action to remedy things at a stage that didn't force the R&A into all sorts of contingency plans and the give us the clear potential for the biggest championship in golf to end up being jury rigged into some sort of last-minute affair that takes place at a hastily arranged alternative venue. It's a poor show all-round and I think it amounts to something akin to a shambles given the amount of negative coverage it's generated and the needless headaches that have been caused for a great many people involved with the running of the championship.
That lot said, a golfing friend who lives up at Prestwick confirms your opinion of the course looking absolutely top notch and, from what I've heard from another friend who's playing this year, it looks very much as though things will go ahead without a hitch - hotel excepted. I personally think it's the best venue on the rota and am very much looking forward to attending another Open at Turnberry next month all the problems aside. Thankfully, I never was planning to stay in the hotel whilst I'm up there.
You can dress it up however you like, but it boils down to people not doing their job properly and having a slapdash attitude towards a major project that's very much in the public eye. I'm expected to hit targets and to live with time pressures in my job and someone, somewhere, who's presumably paid a lot more money I am and supposedly a managerial professional should have been on top of things and 1) realising that things weren't as they should be long ago; and 2) taking positive action to remedy things at a stage that didn't force the R&A into all sorts of contingency plans and the give us the clear potential for the biggest championship in golf to end up being jury rigged into some sort of last-minute affair that takes place at a hastily arranged alternative venue. It's a poor show all-round and I think it amounts to something akin to a shambles given the amount of negative coverage it's generated and the needless headaches that have been caused for a great many people involved with the running of the championship.
That lot said, a golfing friend who lives up at Prestwick confirms your opinion of the course looking absolutely top notch and, from what I've heard from another friend who's playing this year, it looks very much as though things will go ahead without a hitch - hotel excepted. I personally think it's the best venue on the rota and am very much looking forward to attending another Open at Turnberry next month all the problems aside. Thankfully, I never was planning to stay in the hotel whilst I'm up there.
Nice to see a couple of posts regarding courses in the Netherlands that would be eligible to host the Ryder Cup! While I've played a few and echo the sentiment that the courses themselves would definitely be up for it (I can see Tiger on the Noordwijkse, Kennemer, or Haagsche 
, all great and -for us- old links courses), give or take a couple of yards of a longer course, the infrastructure is not up to it, and is not likely to be upgraded for it. Noordwijksche and Haagsche haven't hosted a Dutch Open for over 10 years for that very reason.
Nowadays the Kennemer (links) and Hilversumsche (with quite a bit of heather) are the venues for the Dutch Open, that might-might be up for a Ryder Cup. With a lot of work on infrastructure, that is. There's a course under development in central Netherlands, whose owners boldly state that they want the Ryder Cup to come to their place. It's not even open yet, but was designed by Colin Montgomerie.
, all great and -for us- old links courses), give or take a couple of yards of a longer course, the infrastructure is not up to it, and is not likely to be upgraded for it. Noordwijksche and Haagsche haven't hosted a Dutch Open for over 10 years for that very reason. Nowadays the Kennemer (links) and Hilversumsche (with quite a bit of heather
) are the venues for the Dutch Open, that might-might be up for a Ryder Cup. With a lot of work on infrastructure, that is. There's a course under development in central Netherlands, whose owners boldly state that they want the Ryder Cup to come to their place. It's not even open yet, but was designed by Colin Montgomerie.
I saw the Wales Open on tv and thought the course looked a bit dodgy to be honest. Having never been there personally i dont think just viewing on tv gives a good enough view to comment with any authority.
However, i asked a tour pro who finished in the top 10 of that event what he thought of it and he confirmed that the course is actually pretty crap.
However, i asked a tour pro who finished in the top 10 of that event what he thought of it and he confirmed that the course is actually pretty crap.
QUOTE (BudhaNl @ Jun 16 2009, 05:07 PM)
Nice to see a couple of posts regarding courses in the Netherlands that would be eligible to host the Ryder Cup! While I've played a few and echo the sentiment that the courses themselves would definitely be up for it (I can see Tiger on the Noordwijkse, Kennemer, or Haagsche , all great and -for us- old links courses), give or take a couple of yards of a longer course, the infrastructure is not up to it, and is not likely to be upgraded for it. Noordwijksche and Haagsche haven't hosted a Dutch Open for over 10 years for that very reason.
Nowadays the Kennemer (links) and Hilversumsche (with quite a bit of heather ) are the venues for the Dutch Open, that might-might be up for a Ryder Cup. With a lot of work on infrastructure, that is. There's a course under development in central Netherlands, whose owners boldly state that they want the Ryder Cup to come to their place. It's not even open yet, but was designed by Colin Montgomerie.
, all great and -for us- old links courses), give or take a couple of yards of a longer course, the infrastructure is not up to it, and is not likely to be upgraded for it. Noordwijksche and Haagsche haven't hosted a Dutch Open for over 10 years for that very reason. Nowadays the Kennemer (links) and Hilversumsche (with quite a bit of heather
) are the venues for the Dutch Open, that might-might be up for a Ryder Cup. With a lot of work on infrastructure, that is. There's a course under development in central Netherlands, whose owners boldly state that they want the Ryder Cup to come to their place. It's not even open yet, but was designed by Colin Montgomerie.Noordwijk hosted the (then) TNT Dutch Open in 2000 and 2001. The only two dutch open's I attended were both on Noordwijk (early 90ies) I remember following Sandy Lyle all day the first time and Langer and Payne Stewart. Only a slight breeze that day, so they took the course apart.
The course that is under development is: http://www.thedutch.nl
QUOTE (chasm @ Jun 16 2009, 06:36 AM)
QUOTE (hoganboy @ Jun 16 2009, 01:43 PM)
QUOTE (mat562 @ Jun 11 2009, 02:16 AM)
The shambles is more centred around renovations at the hotel. Since the owners have had several years' worth of notice that the Open Championship was coming to Turnberry this July,
Mat,
You may have forgotten that Turnberry was bought over by Leisurecorp around 12-18months ago. I believe they were shocked by how run down the hotel was, regarding it as a 3 star.
Leisurecorp completed on the deal at the end of October 2008, so couldn't start work until Nov 1st. On that basis they have not had a few years of notice. That said, you hardly buy an asset for £50m and announce you're going to spend a further £30m on it without extensive poking around first and they will have had a detailed plan to refurbish it, so they can hardly claim to have been shocked by the state it was in either. Nevertheless, 8 months to refurbish a property of that size is going some and could be said to have been over-ambitious at the time. The course I am told is in magnificent shape (by my brother who played it last week).
Curious how your brother played on a course that is closed even to members.
Anyway, I thought the original assertion was on the course. I hear the course is near perfect and scoring will be low if the weather does not play a role. The hotel...it's a mess, but I know they are working pretty hard at readiness because many corners have been cut to the dismay of some neighbors. Will the hotel look great? Who knows, but the players will have a place to sleep.
I might be sleeping on the floor, but I'll be very close by watching the action.
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