Yesterday near the end of my round, a member of my foursome politely requested that I be a bit more ready to hit my tee shot when it is my turn. He was a bit stressed over a worse than usual round and at first I was surprised (as in "who? me?") and thought well, cut him some slack, he's a good person who means well, so I agreed and thanked him for his advice and tried to look super-ready at the remaining tees.

Later, I got to thinking about it. Virtually nobody that I know who plays slow thinks of himself / herself as a slow player. So, who am I to judge whether or not I play slow?

I know there are many signs that are easy to detect whether or not your foursome is keeping up a proper pace. And the people I play with are usually pretty good at seeing them and switching to Ready Golf, or even Ready or Not Here I Come Golf.

But what are the telltale signs that could / should alert the conscientious golfer that he or she is "slow" even when the group itself is keeping pace.

Number one, of course, would be when a member of your foursome tells you to get the lead out of your behind and get on the tee faster.

But, for example, what determines whether a pre-shot routine is too long? Should I have any patience at all with folks who plumb bob every putt from behind the hole, beside the hole, and behind the ball? Am I allowed to sit on the bench at the tee while the others in my foursome are teeing off?

I promise to take a serious look at my personal pace of play and I hope I get some good feedback from you that will ultimately allow you folks to play faster because I will no longer be in your way.

You know what, if you pre-shot routine works and helps you then you need to keep doing it! If you group is keeping the pace then I find it hard to believe that YOU could be playing that slow but it is possible. While I do agree I hate slow play i also think that you need to do what works for you and helps you shoot better scores. It sounds to as if your playing partner was having a bad day and took his frustrations out on YOU alone!

I play with some guys that are painfully slow... BUT they don't think so or even realize it...

The only thing you have to worry about is keeping pace with the group in front and if you are then you have nothing to worry about...

My one issue with slow players is if they are not out on the green, start reading your putt while others are putting... there's no reason to wait until your turn to decide to finally read your putt... at least get a general idea of what the putt is going to do and then finalize when it is your turn to play...

I'm a very fast player, almost too fast, and i've tried to slow my routine down but still revert back to getting up, looking at the shot, getting over the ball and hitting, with no practice swings... not good for your game probably, but that might be another reason i think other players are slow as well...

You know you're slow when...

Your pre-shot routine consists of sitting on your butt in the cart while other players are teeing off, you are too slow...
If you have to put your glove on when it's your turn to hit, you are too slow...
If you have to get a ball at the ready when it's your turn to hit, you are too slow...
If you have to get a tee when it's your turn to hit, you are too slow...

In other words, BE READY to hit. Know your yardage, have all your equipment at the ready. If you spend an extra 30 seconds on each tee box screwing around, that's 9 min a round. All four of you do that, it's an extra 36 min a round... adds up pretty quick!

You're constantly walking 80 yards behind the rest of your foursome, you are too slow...
You have to shave at the end of your round...

I think one can take their time with each shot, yet still play at a good pace by making up time in other areas. Put the club in the bag and sit down so I can hit the gas. Mark your score while driving/walking to your next shot. Walk faster. Start walking immediately after your partner's ball is hit.

The last one always gets me. If you're walking, why isn't your bag on your shoulder and your club in your bag before the last person tees off? When he hits, start walking... What are you waiting for??!?!

Good tips there Larry, some of which I had never thought about, but which make sense.

I don't want to be the boat anchor, even if we are, technically, keeping pace as a foursome.

I think routine isn't what makes people slow. I think it's all the "extras" I get SO pissed when guys BS on the green when eveyone is done putting out. OR, like said above, are sitting in their cart waiting for the player ahead of them to tee off, THEN get up and get ready to hit. Cigar/cigarette lighting when its YOUR turn to play. I smoke cigars, light up when it's not your turn.

However, the MOST annoying thing to watch is the hacker who takes 100 practice swings and still only hits it 15 yards (divot goes 25).

Larrybud, you are right on with your comments. I play a fair number of tournaments and league matches where I often don't get a choice on playing partners. The slowness of some people is truly mind boggling - just kills the game for everyone in that group and in all the groups waiting behind. Unfortunately, these people seem not to even be aware what they are doing.

I mean, we're going off the tee, and the third guy to hit has to stop and put on his glove... or we finish up a par 3 with people right behind us, and the cart driver is sitting on the path by the green trying to figure out the scores for the past 3 holes that he forgot to write down.....my favorite is the guy who has to thoroughly clean each club and put the head cover carefully on, before he can get into the cart to move on......and then there are some people who in general just walk darn slow - they just plod along at a pace maybe half what they should be doing to get from green to cart, etc.

Frequently, after I hit the green with my approach shot, or get the ball within a hundred yards, I will just grab my putter and wedge and jump out of the cart and start walking to the ball and then the green. Just to keep moving.

Another favorite is the guy who has to order up some type of elaborate meal at the turn, and you spend fifteen minutes waiting for his cooked-to-order lunch, then watch him carefully putting all the condiments on. I mean, grab a granola bar or hot dog and drink, and keep it moving.

Sometimes the pre-shot routine is too slow - where a person takes something like 45 to 60 seconds just to get settled over the ball, but usually the most time is lost someplace else.

I'm always ready when it's my turn, and I can walk 18 in about 3 hours so I'm pretty sure I'm not slow overall. I do take time aiming putts on the green though and I would bet that the typical amateur hacker on a muni course perceives that as slowness. When I have 5 feet left to putt and someone moves to put the flagstick back in, that tells me something about their way of playing golf. The way I see it a stroke lost on the green is lost for good; these strokes demand precision, if you care about your score that is.

Point is is that I don't think there will ever be a consensus on slow play/proper pace of play. There's too many conflicting viewpoints and the best we can hope for is a golf round that takes around 4 hours.

I agree with all that is said in this thread about being ready.

Its like waiting behind the lady at the grocery store at the check out, she is standing there staring off into space as her giant cart full of items are being checked, and you are behind her with a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk, she never offers to let you go first. Finally, after 5 minutes of checking items, the cashier tells her her total, and she acts surprised, like "that was fast". She just then realizes that her purse is still on her shoulder, she has to get it off, open it, fumble around for 2 mintues finding her check book, then a pen, then write it out. Then they asked for ID, and then she acts surprised again, fumbles for her wallet, looks through it for awhile and then gets her drivers license out. SHE COULD HAVE BEEN DOING ALL THIS WHILE HER STUFF WAS BEING CHECKED, I'M ABOUT READY TO SCREAM!!!

Its similar to people like the ones who, with two open holes in front of them, never let you play through. You wait for them to clear the green on a long par 4 from 180 yards, then your forsome all hit approches, then some chips, and then putt out and walk to the next tee. AND TWO OF THE GROUP IN FRONT OF YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TEED OFF. Your group has played 1/2 a hole, chipped and putted out, and these clowns walked 30 yards and only 2 have even hit? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!!??!!!

They must be related to the same lady I always get behind in the grocery store.....

If you don't recognize what I'm saying here, maybe you are related too.....

Most slow play is not caused by a long pre-shot routine. Its the players who aren't ready to play when its their turn that are the problem. Unless you're the first one to play, by the time its your turn you should know your distance, have a club pulled and be ready to start your shot.

I have a pretty methodical pre-shot routine and if anything disturbs it or if I'm not comfortable over the ball I will start all over. But I'm usually ready to address the ball as soon as the last guy hits. And if anyone ever told me to hurry it up I would just start over.

Oh man, I hear that. The other ones I see are the "oh, hang on a sec, I've got a coupon", followed by ferreting around for five minutes looking for the things. Meanwhile I'm thinking to myself, I'll give you the difference if you stop looking and get on with it. Then there's the till comes up with $18.50 and they fish their money out and they have a $20 and a few ones, then they're like "oo, I can make this" then count out one five, eleven ones, five quarters, ten dimes and a nickel and that's all they have, so end up using the 20 anyway. There's a ninth circle of hell waiting for people like this.

This was a good thread....we all need to look in the mirror once in a while to determine what type of golfing partner we are. I don't just mean slow play.

• Don't let your slow play effect those around you. Ready golf is the single best method.
• Don't let your bad attitude effect the enjoyment of your playing partners. Let those bad shots go and yourself and partners will have a better time.
• Be on time... nobody wants to be worried whether you are going to make your tee time.
• Take care of your trash (cans, butts, etc..) there are plenty of trash cans around.

Look in the mirror once in a while....

• My current issue is that I get too impatient and rush through my own routine to make up for lost time. I need to find a way to relax more and not rush.

That is so key. I play with a guy I've known for 20 years and just the other day I told him he had to cool off because his attitude was affecting my enjoyment.

My course gets very little play in the afternoon, so I can fit 18 in between 5-8pm with no problem. One day last week, there's a backup (and backup on this course is waiting for the group in front of you) starting on 14. Finally got to 16, where you get fairly close to the 18th tee... I finally see the problem.

While I'm standing waiting for the green to clear on 16, I'm watching these 4 clowns on the 18th tee. Nobody in front of them, 4 groups immediately behind them, and they're standing around BSing for THREE MINUTES before someone decided to stick a tee in the ground.

I'm with you on that one. The putts 6 feet and in are in many ways the most critical shots we have. It definitely is distracting, and rude, when you are standing over the putt and you see someone in your peripheral vision picking up the flagstick, or standing next to you with flagstick in hand. Now, once the putts are in the hole, then get the flagstick in and walk purposefully off the green and on to the next hole, or to the cart.

This poses an interesting question to me. I don't find it poor form to pick up a flag and be ready to put in the hole when everyone putts out. Doing this while the guy is in his routine is bad form - just like anything else. But just having the flag in your hands - I don't see the problem with that.

Others?

I try to follow this, however one thing I am finding is that often, my ball is in a position in front of someone else's where I can't pull the rangefinder and decide on a club because I would be right in their way. So I have to wait until they are done to go to my ball. If I'm not in the way, though, I have all my info and am just waiting my turn to start my routine.



This is one thing that annoys me to no end: speed up play by picking up putts. There are a million ways to speed up play without ignoring the most basic part of the game(putting it in the hole). Putt them out, quit all the other stuff you are doing that slows you down.

As far as the flagstick, I'll pick up when the last guy is reading his putt, but I'm out of sight, and not moving until his ball is in or near the hole. It's not done as a distraction, just save a second or two there if it won't bother him.

larrybud made the comment "put your club in the bag and get in so I can hit the gas." Better yet, get in the cart, go to your next shot, and *then* put the club in the bag. Unless it's a serious backup, I never put my club back until I'm at the ball. If nothing else I'm hoping it sends a signal to the group behind that we are paying attention to pace a little. Probably a wash on time, but you get out of the landing area for them a little quicker. I don't know, a pet peeve of mine though....

At my old course we had a few special groups of guys that were easily recognizable from a distance out on the course that were know for their painfully slow play. These are the same guys that would do anything possible to "not notice" the groups backing up behind them even though the course in front of them is wide open.

Now how slow am I talking about?

In a foursome in carts, one guy would get out at the tee box, all the while the entire group joking and laughing. He'd tee up, take a few practice swings, and hit just about as bad a shot as you knew was coming after watching his practice swings. He might get a couple of laughs from his friends but would go back to his cart explaining everything that went wrong. AT THIS POINT, and not a moment sooner, the next guy would actually get his azz out of the cart and begin pulling a club to hit.

I swear to the Lord, it would go on like this for the entire day. You would have to rudelly pull up on them after putting out and ask to play through. Always you get a look like "how dare you?". Apparently these guys felt entitled to play golf any damm way they chose and anyone who said anything was obviously a race car driver.

If this is you, then, YES, you're a slow player.

Id rather take a little longer and play good than play out of my speed zone and play rubbish ,

Jack x.

The question is, how much longer? Anything beyond 4 hours, if you are not having to wait on anyone, is questionable, 4.5 hours is slow, and when you get close to 5, that is pathetic. If not waiting on anyone, I can easily get around in 3.5 hours usually. Unfortunately, waiting on people is more the norm these days for public rounds on the weekend, even on the better courses.

Personally, I play bad when I am put out of my speed zone by having to WAIT on people.

Thanks folks. Plenty of food for thought here. I am glad to say that I did not identify myself with ALL the attributes of slow play that have been mentioned. But I did say "touché" once or twice, so there is room for improvement.

If you play 18 holes in more than 4 hours then you're a slow player and should go through a mandatory remedial course before playing in the future.

That's cool as long as your time is under 4 hours.

Slow players rarely know they are slow. It is up to us to inform them. Politely of course.

If you notice that your playing partners are continually picking up the flagstick and getting ready to put it back in the cup while you getting ready to putt, that just MIGHT be a sign that you are playing slowly.

Two signs I would point out:

1- I would think that if your foursome requests ready-golf, then you are too slow.

If other players are willing to trade off the distraction of hitting simultaneously or out of traditional turn, then they must be even more distracted by the slow play.

2- Sometimes a player can be ready, but just really fidgity. If the guy takes a minute over the ball, I will usually start to do my own thing after 30 seconds. I just can't wait that long. So if the guys are still when you set up, but when you hit they are walking down the fairway, you might be over the ball too long.

I played against a guy like this the other week. Got sandbagged pretty bad too. He would spend about 90 seconds over the ball. Killed me. Then last week, I played behind this guy with another player who was very slow. The first slow guy got away from us, and I told my opponent we needed to just go whack the ball.

I think my more recent opponent took so long that he would forget about some of his strokes by the time he putted out!

I had to play with a guy like that last month. I swear this guy took 90 seconds over every shot and every putt. But he actually played reasonably well. How anyone can stand that long over the ball, and still manage to hit a decent shot, is beyond me. What can they possibly be thinking about during all that time? I tend to do what you did - at some point, I just begin to move on and do my own thing, whether or not they have yet to hit the ball.

Let's go while we're young!!!

Do you mind sir, I'm trying to tee off

I bet you slice it into the woods, a hundred bucks

Gambling is illegal at Bushwood sir, and I never slice. Whack. BAH!!!

Okay you can owe me

I owe you nothing


Sorry, don't know what came over me. This thread just perfectly reminds me of Smails and his foot planting and waggle, waggle, waggle, waggle, waggle, waggle, waggle, pause, look up, waggle, waggle etc...

I am happy to report that my haircut in no way resembles that of the good judge.

Ah, but more importantly, did you actually get a free bowl of soup with the hat?

2:45-3 is a average pace for me.. anything 4+ is slow.

Yeah, but this thread involves more of the interaction between players. You can't really play 2:45 rounds when you are in a match with other people or when there are other people on the course.

I think it is bad advice to tell someone that they are slow if they knock you off 3:15 pace. It isn't reality.
I think the OP is looking for some constructive ways to evaluate his pace of play and perhaps avoid little things that can create stigmas.

Of course, I would love to play my rounds at that speed!!!

Read it again.. I said 4+ is slow.. not anywhere lower. I just played last thursday and the course was crowded and we played in 4 hours and it felt fine. Normally my foursome can get around in 3h and if we drop our "slow" guy we can get around in 2:15-2:30. Plenty of talking..plenty of looking for balls, plenty of good scores and sometimes bad.

I dont think it's that hard to play faster, just be ready to go. If you use a cart and need to leave it, take multiple clubs with you. Play percentages, course mgmt, dont always do that further out BS, help watch others wayward shots, rake the others bunker, fix their ballmarks etc,etc.

Was your club out of your bag when it became your turn?

If not then you are too slow. If yes then I wouldn't think twice about it.

Gotcha - I agree with you. I misunderstood your tone previously.

Your point about taking multiple clubs from the cart is perfect. That amounts to a serious amount of time!

I will add 2 more -
1- If a player has played a provisional and declares his ball lost, this is not an opportunity to go into the woods and look for freebies. I bring this up, because the player playing the provisional is speeding up play. Don't cancel out his effort. It also is not helpful to try to find his ball after a few short minutes, he has played the provisional and is probably ready to go.

2-If a member of your 4-some asks for faster play or ready golf, don't do it for just one shot. Catch up to the group in front of you.

If you are guilty of number 2, you have a serious speed of play problem. Your attention span has to be longer than 2 minutes to be a courteous golfer.

Ah, the provisional ball. Something I'm finding very few people realize...
A couple of years ago the USGA modified the provisional rule.
If you know, great. For those who don't.....

If your provisional ball *could be* (or is) short of where your original ball is...
you may *continue your provisional* (just announce as you would a provisional)...
play your next shot with your, now continued, provisional...on your way to look
for your original. Do this as needed until you reach where you believe your
original to be.

Example: I hit a good ball...long, but a little too much draw. It *might* be OB.
I hit a provisional, just in case. Well, in my frustration, I pop it up...middle of the
fairway, but at least 50 yards short of my original ball. I go to my provisional,
CONTINUE my provisional, hit it to wherever, let's say just short of the green,
and THEN go look to see if my original is OB. Proceed as normal when I find the original.
If IN, I'm hitting two, if out, I'm hitting 5 from just short of the green.

Definitely helps speed things up not having to go back to hit your provisional.

There is NO penalty if you find your original is actually behind the provisional,
that you continued, if it was an *honest* error...you were fairly confident it was
beyond your provisional, in your best judgment. (not the USGA wording, too lazy
to look it up)

So if the design the golf course adds 20-30 minutes to the round of the golf (by distance between green and next tee), you still hold to that 4 hour timeline? How about when it's cart path only?

Absolute time in determining if someone is slow is ridiculous. I played a course Saturday where the time between the 9th hole and the 10th was a good 7 minutes, driving in a cart, not to mention the couple of minutes stopping at the turn.

It's like determining who's a better golfer when two guys each shot 80 on different courses. Without more information (course rating/slope, weather conditions), 80 is a fairly arbitrary number.

Should the time required for two par 3's, one 140 yards, flat, no bunkers, no other hazards, be the same as a 215 yard par 3, OB left, bunker in front, tough sloping green?

It's called "pace of play", not "time of play" for a reason.

I played a "cart only" course in Sevierville TN which was a 7.5 mile track and we played it all the time in 4 hours with different skill levels. The course had time markers throughout saying you should be at this point at a certain time which I'm sure the course you mentioned probably had those signs too. Yet people still can't stay on track even when prodded. 4 hour rounds aren't difficult if you play ready golf but then again some people are just slower then others and that's their nature and nothing is going to change that.

Absolutely correct, well said. "Time of play" is only a guideline. "Pace of play" is what is important. Keep up with the group in front of you and you'll never, ever have a problem with your pace of play.

A course in the Midwest that opened in the 1920s, was not designed with real estate sales in mind, and has few major elevation changes will naturally play much faster than a golf course in Scottsdale that might have more than 500 yards from green to next tee. You can't compare the time to play the two courses, you just can't.

That said, a good guideline is if you can play 18 holes solo, walking either with a push cart or carry bag in 3 hours flat, you are almost certainly not slow. If you do this in 2 hours 45 minutes you are DEFINITELY not slow.

A lot of it is just paying attention:

- Get your ball and tee in your hand as you're going from the green to the next tee. You should never have to rummage in your bag when it's your turn to hit in search of a tee, this drives me crazy.

- If you start a conversation, joke, or story after putting out, either finish it or just stop before you get to the next tee box. I hate when a guy just HAS to finish his story to you when the other two in your group are standing on the tee box with arms folded and toes tapping...

- Do as much putt-reading as you can as you walk up towards the green. You can tell a lot about a green from a few paces away, especially if the green is elevated a bit. Do more reading as you go to mark and clean your ball. Unobtrusively read the putt while others are reading their putts. If your ball is in a position where you can do so, you can continue to look at your putt even while others are putting.

- There's no reason to stand still as a stone until it's your turn to putt and then realize "oh brother, I've got to clean my ball now, and I'd better read this putt!" But it happens all the time...

- Don't plumb-bob. Seriously. I'd bet that 95% of players who do this and think it is helping them have no clue what they are doing and are just wasting time.

- Get the rake before you go into a bunker. Leave it right where you entered said bunker so you don't have to walk around the freaking thing to fetch the rake after playing your shot.

We played Sat in 4:45 which I thought was slow, since we never had to wait. Granted, it was a tournament, but still..... Lots of very high very thick grass and I think someone or other in our group lost a ball about 5 times. So if someone takes the full 5 minutes to look, that is 25 minutes right there. Then once, someone had to go back and hit again, because they did not use a provisisional. That is another 5 minutes. Then there were probably a handful of times when someone told a story and had to finish on the tee box or the green. Another 20 minutes lost.

Add all that up, and that is the difference between a standard 4 hours and what happened. And all scores were in the 80's or very low 90's so the level of play was not terrible, certainly above average on this difficult course.