Hey you saw "that guy"

Similar story about two years ago, I pull up to the bag drop of a very nice $150 a round course on a beautiful Saturday morning. It's 8:00 AM and our tee time is 9:20. So I've got enough time for a bite to eat and a nice leisurely warm up. This car pulls up behind us and four guys get out. The bag drop guy ask their tee time. One of the guys says 8:10. The bag drop attendant says "Sir that is your tee time, not your arrival time. We won't be able to get you to the tee in 10 minutes, it looks like we have a foursome at 9:50, you can tell them inside if you want that time."

they were arguing with the guy as I pulled away, but I couldn't help thinking to myself. THANK YOU, finally a course that takes pace of play seriously and DOES something about it. From what I could tell they must have taken the 9:50 time, as they were out on the range when we teed off.

I can't stand rushing to the course, I know nowdays everyones time demands are so tight, but I get to a course a minimum of 30 minutes ahead of time, and I think that is pushing it for me. I much prefer 45 minutes to an hour.

As a walker who plays alot of golf by myself I tend to play through a lot of groups. I only play through if asked, if the group in front of me is playing at a resonable pace for the number of players in that group I will throw down balls and hit multiple shots to give them time. BUT if they are idiots who are drunk and can't hit a ball more than 30 yards I will stay on their rear utill they let me through. I really detest playing behind someone who cannot hit the ball out of their shadow but will not let someone through. Let me clarify if it is a group of golfers who are hitting it well and playing a good pace for their group size I will not push them at all!!! I just enjoy my practice time. I was walkign yesterday and played through 2 groups. The first group of idiots were all in their 20's and were terrible. I had hooked up with a guy in a cart. They cleared a par 3 and then sat waiting on us to finish. i thouhgt great they are going to get out of the way. As we putted out they decide to go and tee off?????? after sitting in their carts for 5-7 minutes????? They tell us to goo ahead and hit so I go to the back tees and get snide little remarks about being a pro. Really pissed me off. The second group was a group of older guys they invited me to play through as my guy in the cart decided to go to the back nine. Had no issues with these gentlmen in fact I hit a bad chip shot over the green so picked up my ball to get out of their way.

I've got one better than that. Playing a course on vacation in Arizona. I was on the tee sheet by myself, and they didn't want to send me out because I would run up the foursome who had the first tee time, and the maintenance staff, which was fair enough. End up another guy shows up, and so they pair us up. The guy insists we not get paired up with another twosome, and we keep our own carts(fine by me at this point).

We get to the 5th hole and are waiting on the foursome for a minute, nothing big. This guy gets a little antsy and kind of says something to the marshal. I don't care because I'm playing golf in January. Anyway, on 6 the marshal says they will let us play through on #8, a par 3. On 7 I didn't see them in the fairway, and hit a real good drive. When I saw they were probably close enough to be spooked, I went up and apologized, they said no problem, but I could tell English was not their primary language.

We get to #8, and they are there waiting to let us go. I tee off first since I'm playing the tips. The other guys says "they're your countrymen, but they don't speak your language." Well it turns out I do know french so I have a bit of a conversation with them. They had already hit so everyone drove up. I was on the green, this other guy was in the bunker in front, and there was a finger of turf and then more of the same bunker he needed to clear to reach the green. He ends up chunking the bunker shot into the front part of the bunker. And then, no word of a lie, drops another ball to hit to "get it out of his system", and then proceeds to play his original ball! I could not believe it. On a hole we are playing through and the guys are standing right there.

On our way back to the carts I made sure to say in French to them that I was paired up here, I had no idea who the guy was. It was unbleievable.

Although I probably shouldn't be surprised after having to argue on the first green that my putts inside of 4 feet are not good, I am putting them out.

I think what the OP experienced is not the same as the usual slow play, group holding up a little stuff most encounter on a busy weekend round. On weekends, most good courses in my area are quite busy. It gets backed up as the day progresses. Most Marshals are volunteers and don't really want to get into a hostile situation. So it doesn't matter how good you are and how many are in the group...as long as the group in front is keeping up with the group ahead there is really nothing to complain about. If your twosome/onesome is behind me and my 4some keeping up with the group ahead, but the course is just backed up, then I will not let you through. I will politely let you know that all you are going to do is wait in front of another group.

OP's situation is quite different (If i understand correctly) and is something I also encounter during week days twilight hours. The course is generally empty with maybe 10 - 12 groups on the whole course. It is a good time for beginners or people just starting out golfing to come and play the course. It is all good for golf. Unfortunatley, most of the time, they just dont understand the etiquette or poorly schooled in on course etiquette. During twilight, there is really nothing wrong with hitting a tee shot which doesnt cross the ladies tee or hitting multiple balls on a single hole or trying to teach your 6 year old. But if 2 holes in front of you is empty and the guy/group behind you seems to be better golfer, let him through. When I play twilight golf and if anyone is behind me, irrespective of how fast I am, I always invite them to play with me and if there is gap in front then through me. Like OP clearly said, at that time of day, you will rarely see Marshall's on the course. So in these situations, common sense should prevail. If it doesnt, then like the OP, I would also pass the group. Some guys think that if they avoid eye contact or act like they is no one behind them, the group behind will go away. Yep, they are going to go away by passing them. Passing a group without their permission is absolutely rude. Sadly, I do it every other week during twilight.

IMO, Twilight etiquette is a little different from the a regular round. The course is generally not crowded and it lends itself to some unique situations - Practice, work on shots, beginners playing some golf on real courses, parents enjoy some golf with the young kids or just catch some holes on the way home. And we all do that at a bargain price. So if we just use some common sense, then we all can co exist and go home happy after a work/school day.

i find that this line of thought is accurate for private courses these days to some extent but not really at public course. at least that has been my experiences in a few different places.

This is the way golf is now. I played for 25 years in southern California and saw it get worse each year. I now live in Colorado and it is no better. I played my first 18 holes in 10 months yesterday. Recovering from quad bypass surgery in December and was really looking forward to playing. We a threesome ( one of us a beginer)in carts are playing behind a couple in a cart and 2 walkers. I had seen one of the walkers on the range and already knew it was going to be a slow round. Waited until they where on the first green before we teed off. To this courses credit they send out groups 8 minutes apart. Caught them on third hole getting snacks and drinks from cart girl before teeing off. While waiting for them on the next hole to clear green. I see one of the walkers writing down his score ( or something ) right behind the green. 2 minutes go by while I wait to hit. We catch them again on the next tee, so I ask if he would mind clearing out of my line of site before writing down his score. I am told to "relax and enjoy the day it is just golf and we are faster because we are riding" I told him no we are faster because we can hit our drives past the ladies tees, play ready golf on the greens and got our snacks before the round not during. He gives me a dirty look and walks away. By the way did not see a marshall all day. The only good thing was the 2 walkers left after nine holes. Sorry for the long rant but someone really needs to do something about this, but I don't think any one will. By the way the starter announed over the PA that a round of golf should take 4 hours no more.

I am sorry but I have to call you out on this one. You played 11 holes in 5 and a half hours??? That means it took you 30 min to play each hole!! I am sorry but I find that hard to believe.

As someone who frequently plays late evening golf, let me just point out that we are all dealing with a limited amount of daylight. In fact, we often time our tee off to allow us just enough time to finish before dark. I figured that letting a single play through costs us 10 minutes of time. If we let every single come through that is playing late afternoon golf, there would be no way for us to finish our round, not to mention it would add 20, 30, or even 40 minutes onto our own round.

If it's late, and the sun is going down, you can forget about "playing through". We are playing as fast as we can, and we paid the same amount of money you did to be out here. Your best option will be to suck it up and wait (how about pairing up with any of the 12 other single players behind you?), or skip a hole. Nothing burns me more than a steady stream of singles trying to "play through"

My $.02

I am amazed by the amount of responses that don't agree with the OP. Why would you want to hold someone up, if there's room in front of you and they're faster then let them go. I don't think the OP did anything rude in this situation, and I would have been mad enough to start a topic about it if I was him.

The one question I have is concerning asking to play through. I have always thought it was rude to ask a group if you can play through, but if they clearly don't know anything about golf I'll ask. What do you guys think, if there's a slow group that clearly knows enough about golf to know they should let you through, is it rude to ask to play through?

It's quite simple. People, in general, are arrogant snobby punks. It's the same attitude that people show when you try to pass them on the road, or blocks up the passing lanes on the interstate. They think letting someone go ahead of them somehow means they are weak or a push-over. That attitude spans from teenagers to old timers.

I've been unreasonably held up for HOURS longer on 18 holes by a slow group with open holes ahead of them. I've told people how rude they were being too. I'm not one to keep my mouth shut around jerks. I don't have to cuss them out, but they should hear it in front of others so maybe they will feel some form of shame and maybe think of others next time.

It happened to my father-in-law and myself 2 weeks ago. A pack of idiots held us up about 1.5 hours over 9 holes. Oh man these types of people aggravate me. Man up and let people through when you yourself are not being held up.

No, I think both of you misunderstood me. I have no intentions in hitting the golfer in front nor to hurt or injure them, it's just a friendly warning to hurry up and stop being so damn slow. If you 'wanna be a deathwalker, go run in one those walking only marathons, don't come on the course and take the piss spending 5 minutes on the green whilst I'm waiting for you. Also, I clearly said that I wait just as they're leaving the green, not while they're STILL on the green.

It does not matter what your intention is. If you hit into a green when a player in front is clearing the green in plain sight, you ought to be tossed from the course on the spot. It's the same as hitting straight into someone, and it's never acceptable. Ever. No matter how slow the group is in front of you, this response is unacceptable.

I don't get it anymore. This is happening more and more, probably because more people are playing golf but don't know the etiquette part of the game.

On Sunday, we were behind what appeared to be 3 very inexperienced golfers. Not only were they completely pathetic, but they had NO sense for course etiquette. Several times they drove up to the green, and then for whatever reason, turned around and came back down the fairway! On 18, they drove up, I tee’d off, they came back. And OF COURSE picked up my ball. Yeah, someone lost their ball in the middle of the fairway! This threesome was behind an entire hole. The group in front of them was a foursome with 2 women. Women were probably better than the men, but they were all 100+ shooters.

Also, if you hit a ball onto a neighboring hole, that’s OK! It’s fine. No biggie. I’ve done it. But the players on THAT hole have the right-of-way sort to speak. We had some young kids drive their balls right onto our fairway (100+ yards left of their tee box). They drove right up the middle of the fairway, got out, took 10 practice swings each, and hit their balls. We were standing on the tee box just waiting. I said something to the kids as we left our tee box (the green they should have been playing was next to our tee box), and with dumb looks on their face told me they didn’t see anyone on the tee. We have 4 guys there WAIVING at them. Nonsense.

I’ve been very lucky over the last 2 years in that I’ve played well over a 100 rounds with very little issues. But lately, it’s been a mess. I wish courses would take some time to explain the rules of the course to ALL players before teeing off.

Look at the problem from the side of the foursome.

If you're playing in the only 4-ball in front of 10 onesies and 5 twosies, you're going to be waiting all day just letting people play through. Result: just to keep some forward motion happening, you let 1 group per hole play through and you increase your groups playing time by 1.5 hours. The poor guys behind you are going to be burnt for sure...even though you trying to do the best thing for all involved.

And this my friends, is why on some courses singles and 2-balls don't have any rights to play through. I'm not saying its right, but sometimes its not wrong.

This is why the course should never let a succession of two-balls go off one after another behind a four-ball. That makes no sense. Pair those twosomes up!

No one likes to be held up, but everyone should be reasonable.

It takes time to let a group through, and if the group behind is crowding you at a time when letting them through would be a time-suck, then that is not cool. It actually slows down all the other groups out there.

The OP was skipping holes and playing through multiple groups. I have done this before too, but I have been racing when I did it. I wouldn't expect the population as a whole to play to my 3 hour goal.

Here is a situation that I see a lot where I play. Crowded course, slow play, 4:30 guidance becomes 5:10 rounds. Not a big mystery. Now imagine being in between a group that is slower than average (half are slower than average) and a group that is faster than average (half are).

All day I am getting crowded by the guys in the back. As soon as a member of our team gets out of position, they want to play through.

I am sorry, but in the course of the round, if you are waiting for one member of a 4 some to hit a bad ball, you are a pain in the a$$. We are all bound by the constraints of the tee sheet, and unfortuntely queues get slower exponentially. It is the same deal when we are right on pace and one of my parterns needs to look for a ball. Hey, there is nothing we can do about the mathematics of the situation. It's gonna take a few minutes, and that will slow you down a little.

If I let you play through, my 5 hour round becomes a 5:10 round, the group 2 back is now waiting. Their round becomes 5:14 and so on. The gain to you is the 4 minutes that you save, but you cost everyone behind you a lot of time.

Another issue: if you are totally keeping up and pace is kind of slow in general, you are going to be waiting on every shot. How many times have you heard, "I had to wait on every shot." Well, yeah, that is because the tee sheet was full. Don't blame it on the group in front of you unless there is a real problem.

I don't think that the OP's situation filled all these characteristics, but I want to point out the following:

It is not beneficial to let a group play through in all situations. There are no absolutes and judgement is required. Judgement leads to disagreement.

I am aware of the USGA guidlines, and they work great at a private course that sends off a group every 25 minutes. But it isn't the real-world of operational engineering for those of us on public courses where bottlenecks abound.

Jesus Christ, do you know how to read properly?

I said I only do this on rare occasions if the people in front of me are litterally taking the piss on every, single hole, but refuse to do anything about their slow play, and I also said I will only do this once and once only. I have only ever done this 4 times in my 3 years playing golf (bearing in my mind I'm 15) so I think you're taking things waaaaay out of context.

I see that nursery school must be out for the summer.

If you have hit into someone 4 times in 3 years of playing, you are part of the problem, Son. Etiquette is becoming a lost tradition because of players like you.

If you are only 15 years old I hope that you learn that there is a right and wrong way to address slow play before you come across the wrong person on the golf course.

Careful now, benkodi. AceAZ has quite a good understanding of etiquette.

Both the USGA rules & the R&A rules state in Section 1: Etiquette:

I've been playing golf for over 20 years, I've encountered more slow groups than you will ever see. You know how many of those I've hit into ZERO. If you've done it 4 times in 3 years, that is 4 time TOO MANY. As MrHills said, you are part of the problem. You need someone to give you a timeout from the course until you learn proper etiquette. If my coach, teacher or father had been with me at your age and I did something like that, I wouldn't be playing golf again the rest of the year.

Take MrHills advice, before you pay dearly for it some day. Also insulting other posters is a quick way to get yourself a timeout from this board.

Just my .02

I'm sorry but I have never met a golfer who can hit his shots exactly where he wants them to go every time. If you mishit your shot and hit this person you will hurt them. That is completely unacceptable. I understand your frustration as I've had it happen to me many many times. Frustration is no excuse however to hurt someone.

Again, I stress my point that I've only ever hit onto the green whilst the group are leaving green four times in my three years of playing golf and when I've hit those four shots they are leaving on the opposite side of the green I'm aiming for. My golf etiqutte is as good as the next golfer and I respect the rules, don't need some American over the internet telling me what to do thanks. The people in front of me when I hit those four shots NEVER had a problem with me when I did it because they were virtually off the green!!! How many times do I have to say that?! You have taken things waaaay out of context once again, but your probably just some old, grumpy guy who has nothing better to do in life except have a go at youngsters. Seriously, get a grip.

On the day that you mistakenly pull your short iron to the other side of the green (even touring pros do it all the time - did you see #14 at Memorial this past week?) and plunk one of the players walking off, the BEST thing that will happen to you will be to get tossed off of the course.

You easily could wind up in court - and since you are (obviously...) a minor, ever think about someone coming after your parents' assets because of your immaturity and impatience? Crack someone in the head with your golf ball - on purpose - and getting tossed from the course could well end up being the least of your worries. I may sound like Chicken Little to you but believe me it most certainly could happen.

Or, you might catch a beating you'll never forget, you just never know what kind of hot tempered player you might have just hit in the ankle, shoulder, or head. Seriously - it is NOT worth it just to send a message.

Whomever is driving you to the golf course needs to give you a serious lesson in etiquette. If you have hit into the group in front four times in your playing career that is four times too many. There is NEVER an acceptable reason to purposefully hit into the group in front, period. That's not a debatable point.

HIlls, I think we're talking to a wall. Now I know why I don't have kids. Are all teenagers this stubborn?

FAR FROM the truth, but you're not interested in the truth. By the way if you come on an internet forum (an American one at that, since you seem to thing nationallity has something do do with any of this) and don't expect to get feedback on your posts, it's no wonder you don't understand. As Mr. Hills said, I hope your first lesson doesn't cost you more than money.

i wait until the other players are way out of the way. i've been known to hit a ball thin and it takes off like a rocket and goes much further than planned.

The bolded segments are contradictory. You are not showing proper etiquette and respecting the rules of golf if you are hitting into the green when the players in front of you are leaving the green. And, when you were trying to show you were the man, you stated you did this to send them a message, which implies they would have to be close enough to know you did it on purpose and with the goal of speeding them up. You tried to act macho here and was called on it.

Urgh, you clearly have not read my previous post(s). I clearly state that on those four occasions I have done that (and yes, on my behalf it was probably not right) is when the player's ahead of me are virtually off the green walking down to their bags or PowerKaddy's. Not in a million year's would I dream of hitting a ball whilst they are still on the green whether they have just finished putting-out, no way would I do such a thing. What do you want me to do, hit my approach shot when they are walking down the next fairway? I've obviously mis-worded some of the stuff I have written in this thread or I've had too many Red Bull's but I really don't want you to get the impression of what I think you might have in your head. I go to a pretty respectable golf club in my city, and as well as having a bit of fun with my mates, we still adhere to the rules. Sorry, if I've come across as a bit strong in my previous posts, but I want to make clear for the last time I DO NOT HIT MY APPROACH SHOT ONTO THE GREEN WHILST THE PLAYER'S AHEAD OF ME ARE STILL ON THE GREEN. NEVER. I see no reason to rush whilst playing my approach shot, but when you've got the player's behind you who are creeping up your backsides, you want to try and move a bit more quicker so you don't get held-up having to let the group behind you wait and wait.

That's my last say on the matter because I don't see what else there is to explain. Hopefully you've understood.

I am not the United Nations but it seems we have achieved a break through and peace can be declared. Senor, I sympathize with the impetuosity of youth, I was young once, two. You get into a forum like this and want to say something to appear bold and macho. Then, much cooler and mature voices hand you your head. I am confident that you never really did the things you claim. If you had, someone would have taken a certain 11 or 12 year old by the scruff of the neck and shaken them until there were no tees left in his pocket. That you probably stretched the truth doesn't mean that you aren't a good kid and a fine golfer. You probably are. What you are, is a kid. It really doesn't matter where you are from. Most kids are basically alike. We all want to fit in and be with the grownups. You just got way in over your head very quickly and got verbally smacked around a little.

Keep posting. You are an articulate and bright youngster. We need people just like you to carry the torch for the old, fat farts you mentioned. What we don't need though is an immature adolescent, armed with a potentially dangerous weapon (his golf clubs and balls) doing potentially significant damage to a fellow competitor because he thinks he is doing something acceptable (read - "cool"). You are way ahead of the game. You have learned a lesson. Grow from it.

Good Luck.

Thanks for the kind words and I've taken on board with what you've said.

Look dude im not gonna bust your balls here but what if you have waited untill they drove off and then started your pre shot routine? That little extra 30 seconds to a minute could cause you to not have to wait. Im not saying every time but sometimes it could help.

It kills me when as soon as the group in front are done swinging the group behind has made contact with their ball. I was taught when starting a round if you wait for the group in front to REACH the green and you tee off then you will be able to keep a good pace. I know there are other factors involved but that would definately help.

And another thing why do people see it as some "feather in their cap" to finish fast. "I played 18 today in 2 1/2 hrs!!" So what, why is that good? Im not saying that i play slow but jeez enjoy the day a 3 1/2 to 4 hr round is what I consider standard.

I have played between lots of 2, 3, and 4 somes (I play alone alot, i like it that way) and i am able to stay right in the middle of them. I simply adjust my rhythm to the group in front of me. I pace them, i simply walk a little slower, read the putt a little longer and give them just an extra couple of seconds when they are done hitting a shot to leave. It helps me slow down and I am not rushing them.

Maybe we dont have alot of slow players, maybe we have to many fast players.

Hey,

I've done that before instead of being immature like on those four occasions and yeah, it's what is considered the better thing to do and I'll continue to do that if the group in front are being very slow. I don't like to rush my round - no way and I'm exactly the quickest golfer on the course because I believe that golf should be played at a steady pace, but not a steady pace where you're holding up the group behind.

What do you do when the starter joins you up with someone who can play much faster than you? I've been playing a year, and I walk because I can't afford the cart. Sometimes the starter joins me up with a group out of my playing ability, and they'll be on carts. There is no way I can keep up with a much better golfer on a cart!

Look the odds are they arent that much better than you. Think of it this way...if you shoot 100 and they shoot 80, that is basically 1 shot per hole, not that big a difference. One of the biggest things that I had to overcome when i started was "man these guys must really think I am terrible." Truth be told if i kept up had good ettiqute, they really didnt care. Trust me you dont play that much slower as a walker than you do a rider.

To be aware of and appreciate etiquette one must have manners; they go hand in hand. We're fostering a society of rude wimps and weasels... I see it the business world and on campus regularly; sorry for straying but its as I see it.

It started with generation "X" then "Y", and now "Z" thanks to poor parenting from "X", and some older people too. It's mostly city males some thinking they are entitled while others are just unhappy with having no control over their life, or what's being dealt to them.

When in a situation you've describe they exhibit hollering out the window "I can't take it anymore" by ignoring others or being rude to just because they can. To that type of person that's all they have.