So, let me paint this picture for you. Today, we had an 0832 tee time at one of my favorite golf courses. We get there at 0740 and hit the range. Our 4th backed out, so we went off as a 3-some today. There was a lot of rain last night and early this morning, so they sent us on our way starting at #10. We teed off at 0825 and had a great first nine. We made the turn at about 1015 and saw that there was a lot of groups waiting on #1, so went into the clubhouse and got some water and an egg salad sandwich. After buying our snacks, we head to #1 and go up to the starter and inform him that we are making our turn because we were sent out on 10 in the morning.

Well, he just put us in line of walk-ups. There were four groups in front of us and two behind us that we could see. A foursome, a twosome, a threesome, a twosome, us, a twosome and a foursome(in that order). The foursome and twosome looked to be fairly decent golfers. The threesome hitting two groups in front of us was a whole different story. There were three men, playing from the tips, none of them looking like they have ever been to a range, much less played a round of golf. The first guy in said threesome gets up and tops the hell out of his drive and doesn't clear the red box. The 2nd took three full swings before he made contact and the 3rd shanks his really high and right. At this point we knew that we were in trouble. The starter asked the twosome in front of us if they minded joining with us to create a 5-some and they agreed, so we proceeded at the starters request as a group of 5. After a few holes, my patience was completely gone with the group in front of us. They were constantly looking for their balls in the woods and stuff and we were playing considerably faster than them. Finally after being behind them for 3 holes, I drove up to their carts and asked if they minded if we played thru them. They said no since there was 5 of us and said that they would pick up the pace. It was then that I noticed that one guy had a Driver and a 6 iron in his bag. That was it, two freaking clubs in his entire bag. I drove back to our group and said that they didn't want us to play thru, but we would work it out. The next hole is a par 3, followed by a 4. We played the 3 amazingly with 5 pars and proceeded to number 6's tee box. Well, the group in front of us is about 150 yards ahead of us and all three of them are in the woods on the right hand side of the fairway, searching for two balls. We waited for 10 minutes on the box when I decided I had waited long enough. I said screw it and teed off, followed by two of my playing partners.

At this point, one of the guys that was searching for his ball drove out to my ball(pro v1) and picked it up. This is where things started going downhill. I drove out and asked him why he picked my ball up. He said it was because we hit it at them(my drive cleared them by 100 yards and was down the left side of the fairway). I told him that we were just playing thru since they were pre-occupied. He said that it didn't matter and I could get my ball out of his pocket if I wanted it. I walked up to his cart, took the key to his cart and told him when he was ready to give me my ball back, he could have his key. He tossed me my ball, then got his key back and went back out and put my ball back down. They went ahead and played the rest of the hole out quickly and went on. Well, then we get to #7's tee box. I guess they sped thru 7 and were already teeing off on 8. Realize that 7 and 8 are right next to each other with 7's green being next to 8's tee box and 8's green being right next to 7's tee box with only a thin layer of trees separating the two fairways. Since I butchered 7, I was last on the box. Just as I finish teeing up and going thru my normal drive routine, I notice that the guy that I talked with previously was driving thru the trees towards our fairway. I think that surely he is going to wait until after I swing. Well I swing and he doesn't wait. Just about the time I make contact, he jumps out of his cart to hit his ball.

My drive is heading directly for him down the left side. I yell "FOUR" and the guy throws his hands up at me as if I am just yelling at him. I realize that he is right in my landing zone, so I yell "DUCK GOD DA#$IT" about a second before my ball crashes down on top of his cart, 4 feet from him. Just my luck, a course marshall is there and asks me to leave due to me yelling obscenities. I couldn't believe it. I had a few choice words with the marshall(he was in his 60's and I am in my late 20's, so they weren't confrontational) basically telling him that he had caused this and it wasn't my fault. Then I drove out to pick up my ball. The guy that I almost killed was pissed and asked why I hit it at him. I just laughed and said that if someone is on the box, you probably shouldn't drive into their fairway. I have a golf etiquette book in my bag that was given to me about 2 years ago when I started, so I just tossed it to him and asked that he and his friends read it, then I left. I talked with the club pro(along with the 4 guys I was golfing with) and we ended up all getting refunds for our round and apologized to a few times by various people at the course, but I will never go back there. Found a young kid(15 or so) on the way out and we all gave him our credits. He has a lot of free golf coming his way. Anyway, sorry for the long rant, but I just couldn't believe the experience I had today.

HOLY CRAP
that must have taken you ages to write

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p357/Bl...ALL_OF_TEXT.jpg

Just goes to show that I am still fuming about todays round, that I didn't get to finish.

Can you make it into paragraphs??
I really wanted to read it, but not in one massive slab :P

cliffnotes?

Edited with some paragraphs.

Readers Digest version?


OK was able to read with your paragraphs and editing. Much better. Sorry but if you are teeing off and the guy drives in your fairway he is in the wrong. I am with you.

A paragraph or two would make for a little better reading. As it is I had hard enough time just reading through your rant.
As a marshall on some occasions, I would tell you your first mistake was taking matters in your own hands. Never a good idea. When the course is that busy given the fact it was a holiday weekend, patience is your best friend. Sounds to me like you may lack in that area a little.
We live in a era where everyone carries a cell phone. I quick call to the club house would have been much better than teeing off when they had not cleared the fairway and taking the key was not your best move. You should have hung on to the book and gave it a good read.

Edit; Could have done yourself a favor and informed the starter you were turning before you took the time for the egg salad and water.

that sucks and also I big reason I try not to play certain muni's. For some reason rangers/marshalls here in the northeasy have no f'in clue. WHen I go down south like myrtle beach the rangers are no joke and keep the pace of play.

That is the worst part about it. It isn't a muni. It is a semi-private course. I have been waiting to get on for almost 4 weeks(since I returned from the desert). The pro told us that the owners had informed them to fill every cart if they could this weekend. They were pretty upset about the situation as well, after hearing what happened out on the course.

i suck as a golfer compared to the average member of this board, but i am FAST. and, if there is a faster group behind me i will always offer to let them play through, unless the course is backed up. i also get frustrated when a group ahead won't let you play through and there are one or two holes open in front of them.

however, as someone suggested, a call to the club house may have been the best course of action.

Thanks for the edit.

I thought you should get priority over walk ups in the first place so on your turn you should be in the front of the queue?

I guess you got sucked in by the douchebag and the marshall only saw enough to kick you off? Its a pretty unfortunate incident but the apologies and credits probably showed they were sorry.

That sucks. I had an incident just yesterday at the course too. A twosome was about 330+ yards ahead, so I hit my drive out about 270. The guy thought it was too close and I was hitting into them and he got all upset about it pretty much overreacting and started to threaten to get me kicked off the course. I just apologized. I'll be sure and wait now till the group is at least up on the green. First incident I've had in two years or so of playing.

I figure if you play golf, it's inevitable that you'll be involved in some sticky situation at some point or another. It always puts a damper on the day. I guess if harry situations happen regularly then it might be time to have a look in the mirror. But one every few years or so is probably common, unfortunately.

Still dont get why the course sent you guys off #10 but then resumes normal tee times off the front. Yeah that makes sense.

That was the first thing we did. They have a printed sign that says no more than 10 minutes in the clubhouse at the turn. We were in and out in 5, and went right to the front of the line to inform the marshall that we were making our turn. I have always been under the impression that he should have started us in front of the mess that was backing up. As far as patience goes, I have as much as the next guy. I honestly believe that we did the right thing by asking to play thru. They made the decision not to allow us. A good marshall would have seen this coming on #1 tee when it took a 3 some a total of 6 swings to clear the red boxes.

Nice gesture for the kid...

I have a policy. Every group gets 1 free "hit into me" before I get upset if. Since I am a quick player, it doesn't happen often. The following are the most likely "reasonable" reasons people hit into me.
1. I am hitting my 2nd shot and the guy just bombs a drive. Sometimes it is difficult to judge distances and we all blow it once in a while.
2. On a green on a par 5, every so often some guy 220+ will have one roll up towards the green. Who hasn't accidently "gotten there" unexpectedly?

I can live with both of the above scenarios. Otherwise, I think it is unacceptable to hit into anyone.

Hit into me twice. We have a problem. Nevertheless, I do not recommend taking anything into my own hands. If there is a problem (typically slow play), I call the proshop and have them send a marshall.

A few years ago, I had a crazy incident. Despite the fact our group consisted of two dudes who had to go 6-2, 250+, the fact I am 200+, and my playing partner is a fit guy in is 30's, a group of geezers hit into 2 times on the first 4 holes. Thankfully, I called the marshall and he said he would watch them.

On the 6th hole (a par five), we were putting out when I noticed one of the geezers standing in the fairway about 160 yards out. My partner said, I bet they hit into us before we reach our carts. I joked, "A dollar says we won't clear the green." SOB - the guy hit with all four of us on the green (the two big guys were not even on the half of the green closest to the carts). Needless to say, I was upset and yelled something. Luckily, the marshall saw it and said he would take care of it. The funny part, we were on the next tee when I heard the guy complaining he got "unlucky" when his ball buried in the bunker. How he didn't notice my size 10 on top of it, I have no idea?

Don't wanna "pile on" u, but I would have to agree with having the ranger talk to them b4 taking action on your own.

I know I'm not a good player either, but I know when I'm slowing down everyone, I'll just pick up my ball and move on. It's too bad ALOT of people are not as considerate... Thus, maybe having the course ranger keeping an eye on the slow-pokes would instill a sense of urgency to them?

Don't give up on the course because of this just one bad experience. It happens. Now, if it becomes a repeating theme (poor pace management or whatever else seems to be a problem(s)), then, yeah, u can stop going there.

I wouldn't go back either if that's how they run the place.

Man, I feel for you. I have seen this type of situation so many times it is not funny. I played public golf courses for 15 years after I graduated college. I cannot tell you how many times I ran into rude pro shop employees, non functioning marshals, people with no clue how to play golf and most certainly no clue about golf etiquette. It is such a frustrating experience.

The municipal golf course in the city/town I live has the most stupid policies of any golf course I have ever run across. Get this....I will try to lay this out......

They would not allow you to pay until they call you. They would not call you until about 30 minutes till your tee time. The driving range is a 200 yard walk from the pro shop. You go into the pro shop, check in to let them know that we were there, pay for range balls and then walk the 200 yards to the range. Invariably they would call you to pay while you were in the middle of hitting balls and somebody or everybody would have to make the trek to the pro shop to pay. (Did I leave out the part where they would not give you a cart until you paid).

Then you tee off.......the marshals were always rude and did nothing to actually monitor or speed up play. If you complained to them they would tell they were doing all they could and then they would go to the nearest lake to hawk balls.

Their was one person in particular who worked behind the counter in the Pro Shop......let's call him Sid......he was particulary rude most of the time and had the "leave if you don't like it" attitude.

The funny thing is, everybody I ever ran into who had played there all said the same thing about the entire experience at the golf course. It was a good golf course with very reasonable prices so it was really a good course - except for the staff and the pace of play.

I quit playing there during the last 4 years that I played public golf because I would always walk off of the course mad about one thing or the other.

I hear your story loud and clear. You have my deepest sympathies.

Peace!

Not sure how I feel about this one to be honest. I'm not the best player, but I certainly won't hold someone up unless there is a group in front and I have nowhere to go. If you had hit into me like that, your ball would have been further away than my pocket, that's for sure. Even if you were 100 yards clear. That's insanely inconsiderate. I can understand the frustration, but isn't part of the fun being out with a group of friends on a nice day anyway? I don't understand the huge rush. More than likely there was a group in front of them that was just as slow at some point as it sounds like things were a bit crowded.

With that said, I can't stand when people don't know their place and won't let you play through. I think I would have just cut them off and started the next hole without hitting into them.

I totally feel your pain. Unfortunatly it reminds me of my home course over and over agian.

I have the opposite opinion........most marshals at golf courses.....i stress "most".......are not interested in actually taking care of pace of play, slow groups, etc...

It seems that you were congenial when you first approached the group. Sadly, this is a common story at public golf courses.

First, you should have informed the starter when you came back to number one that you would be turning after you stopped in the club house. That should have been first. At that point he should have gotten you out next when you returned from getting refreshments.
I agree that he should have held that threesome after they had problems getting off in good time. I can tell you first hand that it can be tough at times to manage things perfectly each and every day. You also have to take into consideration that this was a holiday weekend which often makes tee times tough to hit. I worked yesterday at my home course which had a full time sheet from 5:50 am until 6:20 pm. I'm sure there was some waiting on the course as the holidays often bring family and friends together for a round that normally never play or play very little. We had a few calls from the course and I even went out in the afternoon and held a slow group up to allow a group to pass.
One rule we live by is; the group behind should never go up to the slow group ahead and request to play thru. The slow group ahead, should "invite" you to play thru. If this does not happen in a couple of holes and you are truely being held up and groups behind you are backing up, you shoud always call the pro shop first. In our case, we would then come out and watch the group ahead of you and be the one to tell them to let you pass. That is what we are paid to do. Taking matters in your own hands is never a good idea, and almost always makes things much worse.
Playing golf at any course is a privilege and the course owners/workers must always be in control, not the players. In my case, I'm not sure how many groups we had at my home course this weekend, but it was a bunch and I don't think anyone was kicked out which rarely, if ever happens.
Like I said, holiday weekends are the worse times, and there must be some give and take between groups on the course.

Sorry, but I have to agree with CO.

You seem like a good guy, but hitting into them wasn't the right thing to do. I just try to laugh off the small stuff and not take life personally.

yeah seems like marshalls are more interested in the free refreashments they get than actually doing their job.

Not to bash you or anything, but that sort of thing bothers me almost as much as actually being hit into. I can't begin to count how many times I've heard a thud in my backswing and damn near had a heartattack thinking the thing would hit me. Just my 2 cents.

that is pure bull s***, i cannot stand people who do not understand simple etiquette... its not that hard to understand!

GREED caused that entire situation.

I've worked at a club that used dual tee times and averaged 220 rounds a day in season. Once the morning sheet is full that's it. Load it up and do it all over again after lunch. No walk-ups. Otherwise they had no good reason for using dual tee times in the first place.

You cannot take walk-ups and send them off on the front when your back nine starters are making the turn.

I would of had a calm chat with the golf pro about my opinion of that situation.

I guess I don't really consider what we did, "hitting into them". They were 40 yards to the right and only about 150 out. We all went left. I guess we should have waited, in retrospect, but I think that the Marshall's had their chance to make this right and chose not to for profit.

Oh I know. From now on, I'm just gonna wait till there is no question that the group in front is well out of range. I've been getting too relaxed with that kinda thing i guess. Plus they were new golfers, and the last thing I want to do is make new golfers feel more uncomfortable then they already are on the course.

Great point!

On one hand the course did you no favors by sending you out on the backside and expecting you to somehow work your way into the front side. And it would be frustrating to be stuck between slow golfers who had no business playing from the tips.

But I still can't see any reason to ever take it upon yourself and play through by hitting over the other group. Even though you knew you would clear them, it's pretty presumptuous to play through without and invite AND hit into the group. Even though you were technically hitting over them, I imagine most golfers would take issue with a group teeing off before they hit their approach shots.

I'm kinda surprised the situation didn't escalate worse than it did with the whole ball/key taking standoff.

It seems like a situation where everybody - the course, the other group and you have handled it a little bit better...

while i can understand your frustration, you should not have teed off while they were in the woods looking for their ball...

you started the animocity, and only continued it by stooping to his level and taking his cart key...

frankly you are looking to blame this on someone else, when you clearly have noone to blame but yourself...

the fact that they let a 5-some go out at a semi private club, tells you what kind of place it really is...

I can respect that!


Being hit by a ball on the golf course is one of my biggest fears. I don't know why, but whenever I feel as though I'm in danger of being hit, I get shaken up pretty badly. I was the same way in baseball. And the thing is, whenever I did get hit, I never got hurt. I even took a line drive to the chest when I was pitching and I just shook it off.

That is really the only part that I regret, but I wasn't sure how I was going to get my ball back. I was not overly concerned about the situation escalating though. I had absolutely no intention of a physical altercation with the guy in the group in front of us, but had something escalated, I think that I could have stopped it very quickly.

So, asking a slower group to allow my group to play thru is starting animocity? I am not tracking that at all.

I don't mind playing with beginners. I don't mind playing with horrible golfers. I don't mind an errant shot flying my way once in a while. I don't mind much. BUT...I hate people who don't know what etiquette is on the golf course. If you're slow, let me play through. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE......IF YOU DIDN'T HIT THE STOOPID BALL, DON'T TOUCH IT!!!! IT AIN'T YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Etiquette is way-y more important than skill. And unfortunately most of those who lack skill also lack the required respect for the game to know display proper etiquette. It's like infringing upon my constitutional right to enjoy my round of golf. Sometimes I wish I could carry one of those riot control guns in my bag, you know the ones that shoot those "non-lethal" rubber bullets. That would be quite effective as a teaching tool for some of the yayhoos I've encountered on the course.

Sorry, but you NEVER intentionaly hit into someone. It all started with that. I can't stand it when people get so up tight about pace of play, if you have somewhere to be, go there. Did you ever think maybe these guys don't get to play that much golf and just wanted to enjoy it.

Your reaction tells me this isn't the first time you've been bent qnou pace of play, and have unrealistic expectations ofnhow fast a round should be played in

Actually this is the first time that I have been that annoyed about pace of play. I have never had someone hold my group up for 6 holes and not allow us to play thru. I guess I have been lucky in the two years on the course.

Was there even any room for your group to go in front of them? I imagine there would be many groups ahead of you at that point--where did you expect to go? If there were 6 holes open I can't imagine a marshal not taking care of that.

In any case, the other poster's point about you starting it was that you hit into them. That's an aggressive move, and most people here would take it as a threat or as a challenge, or as an insult.

Watching duffers slash at the ball from the tips is mind-numbingly frustrating, but you made a wrong move taking it upon yourself to "play through" uninvited. At the very least, skip a hole and go around them.

It would have been more fun just to have all 5 players tee off at the same time (sad to say when I was younger we did this on occasion)!! I could see the gentleman trying to pick up everyones balls!

Was there any holes open in front of the slow group? How many holes did they have the course backed up on? When people do not pick up there pace of play or let faster groups thru, it can ruin everyone's day of fun at the golf course. I wish people had a better understanding of etiquette and realize that is not a "bad" thing or make you any less of a man to let faster players thru. I think that is a lot of the reason people dont let others play thru.

To the OP

I feel your pain, living in southern california we are all used to 5 hour or more rounds when I play a public course. But I have to say the marshal was wrong for kicking you off the course, you clearly warned the guy that pulled into the fairway and when he chose not to "duck" you gave him a more stern warning considering you didn't want his stupidity to get him hurt.

I was holding one of my TGA junior golf camps at a public course here and had 3 student's, we tee off on the 5th and here comes the senior citizen marshal saying "I'm going to need you to leave right now!" when I ask why he continues to tell me that these 3 young students are not allowed to be spectating/or playing without supervision and said if I don't leave immediately I would be banned from playing there ever again. I begin to explain the situation to him, and he apologizes to me numerous times, needless to say the owner of the course was waiting for me at the 18th green to make sure everything was okay considering we hold 10+ weekly camps there a year.

So I think the marshal shouldn't have kicked you out, you shouldn't have hit a shot past the slow pokes even though they were a 9 iron away from the tee box but I understand your frustration 10 minutes is the MAX. time you should spend looking for your ball and at that time they should have went into the woods and let you play through. Sorry you had a crappy day but nice job on giving the vouchers to the young man!

Is there a chapter in that golf etiquette book about hitting up on people. IMO you should not have been tossed off the course but you were certainly in the wrong. It sucks playing behind slow players but it happens. You should never drive a golf ball when the group in front of you is reachable. It happened once to me. I calmly walked over and teed the ball up in the fairway and drove it straight into the woods. The guy did not do that again.

So what is a reasonable expectation for pace of play? Just because these don't get out that much to play doesn't give them the right to back up the entire golf course looking for balls and shooting 100. You can shoot 100 and still get around in 4-4.5 hours. I see it all the time at our course.

yeah that was the right thing to do...

There is so much wrong in this thread it borders on insane.

I've been there... it's one thing to play slow, but it's another thing altogether to be a slow playing dick. The OP was certainly in the wrong for blowing one past him, but that's about it.

The whole situation was fumbled and muddled to begin with. No amount of "blame the OP" attitude is going to change that, despite how many of the one day a week marshalls and armchair pretenders chime in.

I wouldn't play there again either.

you got dealt a pretty raw deal there.

im really impressed that after that ordeal you all gave your golf rebates to a kid who probably needs them. im willing to bet a lot of people would have kept them and never used them, or just thrown them away. you all showed a lot of class by going out like that. props.

yeah one time i was at my uncles country club and it was myself, my uncle and my cousin (3some) and we played about 11 holes and then caught up to this 7 some. we gave them 2 holes before i had it. the last guy was driving away from the green just as i hit from like 140. he must have forgot something cuz he drove back as my ball was in the air and then flipped out when the ball landed 4 feet from him.

He picked it up yelled some words and then drove off. when we got to the next tee my ball was on a tee all chewed up from the concrete. so i hit it at them and actually hit the guy square in the back. Needless to say it was the best feeling ever.

so he calls the pro shop and the pro rolls out and realizes my uncle is there (my uncle is his doctor lol) asks the guy to accept his money back and resign his club membership. either way who tries to get away with a 7some