It feels to me that people are more and more just playing their round and basically going home. I don't see people hang out as much in the club house playing cards, etc...
We had a major inter-club tournament last November, and people basically ate and then just left. I am seeing this more and more.
I don't know if it's the economy, or what...

One thing that prompted me to thinking about this is Yakkim's post about being diagnosed with cancer. My first thought in reflecting on his story was how I would miss golf like a best friend if I was injured or was really ill.
I am thinking about all of the things I love about the game, and I realize a lot of it is the people and seeing them at the club, day in and day out.
My favorite times have been the dinner on the first night of the member guest, where we put out money in for the calcutta. People are having a nice dinner with a couple of drinks, you get to see the trees near the clubhouse with the cool looking up-lighting on them. The course is very majestic looking on a clear summer night. There's something special about it.
I love trees too, and the smell of the grass. Coming in from a round to find some of your club house buddies and have a couple of beers is a real joy for me.

I don't know, maybe I am imagining it. It just seems like people are moving away from the tight little nucleus that a golf club can provide and everybody is more scattered, etc...

I don't know. We are blessed to play the game...

Not only do I see less hanging around. I see less rounds being played as a whole. I understand it is a down economy, but its a club and the golf is pretty much free after the dues are in.

It could be that business owners are having to work harder for every dollar, and employees are going the extra mile to make sure their not the next head to roll.

All in all I think this post ties nicely into a post that was going around a couple of weeks ago about the slow demise of the country club.

With big business pushing the small business owner out of every market, it leaves little room for young talent to do anything but latch ont the the teat of a big corporation. In the big business world you have to be willing to move on a moments notice. Move to grow is the mantra of todays upwardly mobile. That life leaves little room for a 5 figure initiation fee to the local club.

Also you have to look to the domestication of the man. With so many women taking on careers, it is expected that the man of the house be home to help out with the chores. Men are also expected to take a much more active role in the raising of children. All this levels little time for golf, let alone socializing in the Men's Grill.

I have definitely seen a change over the last 2 years at my club. It was quite typical to tee off Fridays at 3 pm and not leave the club until 3 am, but those days just don't seem to happen any more. Used to also have at least a poker night or two during the week. On weekends it is now one drink and off everyone goes, instead of spending the afternoon drinking and watching golf.

I am not sure if it because of the economy, or because everyone is getting older and life is getting in the way. Kids, wife, and other responsibilities may be the cause.

Whatever the cause, I for one miss the good old days.

It's a variety of things, depending on where you are. Here in my hometown, it's an aged membership that hasn't been replaced. It's a generational difference from the standpoint of fathers spending more times with their kids than was spent with them. It's a bad economy. The list could go on forever.

Personally, I'm alot more like my father than most in my generation. I still play 6-8 times a month, have at least a few late country club nights per month, try to get in my card playing, but most of it is with men 30 years my senior.

It's an interesting question and a topic that interests me greatly.

At $3.75 a beer (our club price) I'd rather stay home......

When I was a member at 2 clubs last year, a friend and I stayed hours after our round just drinking and hanging out and watching golf. This year not so much, I find most of the clubs in my area just dont have the atmosphere that begs you to stay and hang out.

Seems most new clubs are just catering to tournaments and business people.

Cripes, I hope that's a good German beer.

If my club hit me up $3.75 for a Miller Lite, that would be the last beer I bought, more on principle than anything.

I understand the idea of not staying around, I'm 23 and like to golf and am a member of the club i joined because of the golf, not the people, most of my friends are members else where but we still get to play together because of our jobs.

Also on a side not 3.75 would be cheap. Here in Canada a Tall boy at the couse usually sets you back on average $7

I dont bring my own beer but i deffinatly bring sandwiches and snacks when i play, for me it just makes sence.

i desisgn clubhouses for country clubs, and what we've been seeing in the last 5+ years is the average age droping in most clubs. rather than the average being of someone who has a kid in college or graduated college, your now seeing the average age being of someone with a kid still at home. the result is the member has more family obligations. the direction a lot of the clubs have gone because of this is to become more family friendly. we are adding family dining rooms, larger fitness areas and large, more playful pool areas with a pool building that has a kid's activity room.

short term, you are seeing less money spent in the clubs because of the economy. someone might go and play golf, then rather than spending more money on lunch, beers, etc.............

Your observation is spot on.

Interestingly, this has been studied by sociologists in recent years, in other venues. The discussion began with an article published in the late 1990' called "Bowling Alone" by Robert Putnam. He has followed this article with a new book entitled Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community that discusses this very phenomena. I don't think anyone has looked at golf specifically but it would seem that it should follow the general decline Putnam observed in the 90's.

If you are interested, I think I can provide a link to the original article. Let me know.

this is VERY interesting.
To all of you, thanks for your replies. It all makes sense, and I am sure that it's a combination of factors- some practical and some deeper than that.
When I was growing up in the Woodlands, TX the club was kind of the center of your life. I mean, I played junior golf, my mom and dad played golf in leagues, we often ate at the club, we had a fourth of July fireworks display at the club (GREAT memories of that, sitting on a blanket on the hallowed course, watching fireworks over the lake).
I hate to think this, but I wonder if the sentiment that people don't deserve to have an "elitist" place to play golf is also at the root of it. I don't mean to say that the government is handing down an indictment on country clubs the same way that they are for example, with making smaller cars, but it does feel as if there is a thought out there that we can't afford to have really nice clubs anymore. It's almost as if golf should become utilitarian like as in smaller, no-frills cars.
No real clubhouse, no men's area where guys can play cards and cut loose...

Really, economics aside, I guess underneath it all, I am longing for the community of it. You know, you would see the same 3-4 guys on the putting green playing stymie for 25 cents a hole, that type of thing.
Part of it is being able to count on your normal cast of characters being at the course, and being able to rag on eachother.

That's one thing that I have grown to like Charles Barkley about- he deeply appreciates golf and the type of special bonding it creates.

We had these 60ish year old guys at our club that were always there at the same times. They were awesome guys, that I love a lot. They played cards and had putting contests. There was one of them that wasn't very good but loves the game and takes it really seriously.
I usually played with my buddy who was by far, the best player at our club. He was the young stallion. One day were driving to the 1st tee, and the 60 year old guy that loved golf but wasn't as good as he thought yelled out "where you going JJ?? you trying to avoid your pappy??"
My buddy responded "oh, it's on- get your clubs."
Of course, everyone who saw this, including the usual suspects who were putting on the practice green, ran to get in their carts to see the spectacle.

That's the kind of thing I am talking about. There was always a new day to look forward to, with your usual suspects...

Noelsy

It depends on club and community.

I've found that time bookings are bad for "bonding" - a queue using golf balls or whatnot at the club is much better. You meet people, and make up pairings on the go.

Saying that, what might stop my parents from relocating to where I and my siblings live is ONLY that they have so many good friends at their golf club!

I'd love to be a member at your club. After my dues, which are pretty reasonable when it comes to a private club, it's still $25 each time I play. I've played 45 rounds at my track this year, so that's $1,125. I'd hardly call that "free". (Edit: that's actually the first time I computed my annual cart fees, OUCH)

Your last paragraph sums it up for me though. as I'm spending less time after my rounds because I have a 3 year old. The compromise I made with my wife is that I play early and then head home when I'm finished instead of having lunch, hitting balls, playing another 9, etc.

It certainly seems that there is less hanging around the course after the round. I am sure there are a whole host of reasons contributing to this. Most of the major reasons have been noted in the previous posts. One thing that has affected me personally on why I don't stick around after golf is smoking rules. My friends and I used to sit on the patio at my course and have a cigar after our rounds. That practice is not acceptable in many locations now. So, after the round we will head to a cigar shop or just go home.

One main reason is the strict enforcement of DUI laws. The guys that used to stay at the club till all hours now are in bed at 8:30pm and men w children at home just can't spend the time or take the risk.

I play 50-60 rounds per year up here in the Mid-west. I'm married and have a 3-1/2 yr old daughter, I'm lucky to get out as much as I do, if I hung around the course for another hour or 2 afterward I'd be in even more heat when I got back.

This thread is kinda deja vu all over again for those of us who made a career of the military. Had the internet been around 25 years ago, this thread would have been alive then. The military clubs (meaning Officers', Staff, NCO, enlisted) have already gone through this and what you see today is a mere shell of what it once was. I get misty eyed recalling the raucous days of old. You can't do it today. (I swear that was NOT me who drove the Harley through the clubhouse. Honest.)

For me personally, then age is the thing. I am 49 years old and about ten years ago, the doctors told me that I was a type 2 diabetic, and a walking talking heart attack candidate. So the cigars went out the door, and I have drank 3 beers since that time. Sometimes I will go for the tuesday night Holdem game, but I am a reformed smoker and can't stand the stale smoke smell for too long.

I have 3 children and one is married with a son; another one lives with his girlfriend and the last one thinks he is 30 years old already, and is hardly ever at home. Its not the child obligation, or the wife obligation as I am divorced.

Honestly it seems, that as soon as school is out, then the country club is just the place for parents to dump their kids. Then its full of kid's, that think they are Tiger Woods, and take forever to play one hole much less a whole round. Summer time, unless its at 7 AM and u are first off is not the place to be at my club.

Basically the whole world has changed more in my life time, than the total combined changes that occured in the world before my time. Even though my generation are the major movers and shakers in the world today, its still not the world that I grew up with. Black and white tv is long gone, and computers havent been the size of a room for a long time.

So we might as well accept it, and look forward to the changes in the future.

You're observation is accurate.

I love golf and especially like the social aspect and leadership rolls (was pvt club membership director) clubs provides, and so does my wife; we're joiners. My assessment is the changes you've stated are the result of yesterdays economic conditions influencing today's behavior. When our economy was flourishing many people realized they had disposable income that during earlier years didn't exist, so they decided they could afford taking up golf, many joined clubs of sorts.

Today, those same people have been hit hard by the economy forcing them back to hard work schedules; and still others are in my third category of golfer that is tied to your observation. One category is a social/joiner, like you and I; one is not a joiner leaving the third category. It's the people in the third category that contributed to golfs growth over recent years, but now are likely part of it's realignment now. He realizes along the way that club life, maybe it's costs or social demands either don't out weight his back to hard work schedule so he cuts back his involvement level or he quits. Only time will tell..

I think this is why guys golf trips are so loved by many of us. It is an unfettered opportunity to indulge in golf, beer, cards, food etc as we see fit - no rushing home, no DUI concerns if you stay on course, etc.

I happen to live in a state with some of the, if not the toughest dui laws in the country. I see alot less drinking on the course and also in the club house. I have to pay a rather high price to play a round anyways and sometimes spending an extra 20 to 30 bucks in the grill afterwords just adds to an already expensive day. Instead i would rather go home spend some quality time with my girlfriend or go Bbq with our friends etc.

Yep, I know this is part of it at my old club back home. We used to stay for hours after the round and watch sports, play cards, drink, eat, etc. After the police started setting up freaking checkpoints every weekend and driving by the club all the time this started declininig. They would even come up and sit in the parking lot sometimes which I thought was illegal and entrapment. Anyhow, it is BS in my mind and screwed up a really good thing.

Well, you should get your girlfriend and your friends to take up golf. The only part I miss is playing with people as good as me (and not with 20 to 30+ handicappers), but I get a lot of time on the course. We drive up to the club, I let them (the 3 of them) play the first 9 while I practise, then I join them the last 9 or perhaps last 18 holes, often in the summer they play 27 holes. It's perfect.

Redman - I have been stopped numerous times in "check point" right in front of your home course (in WV). They always seem so disappointed when they see you're not drunk. One of the cops even said to me, "Can you go get druck and come back, so we have something to do". They are really after the golfers and the bowlers. Good times.

Well I can tell you why I'm not at the club. I was given a promotion with a country club membership and my dues were played by th company since I mainly used it for business. My company is a commercial developer and almost out of business. One year and a half ago I moved on to a construction company and was laid off 5 months ago. I have taken a leave of absence from the club and if I don't find a company to pay my dues will drop my membership. Times have changed with the economy especially in the commercial/industrial real estate industry. The industrial development in Chicago is down 80-90%!

Yeah, Opus it is a freaking joke. They truly have the checkpoints set up every weekend. Or when I was living there they used to. And you are right, they want you to be drunk and if you aren't they are very disappointed. They have nothing else to do. And everytime you see someone pulled over at night time there is three and maybe four cars lined up. You would think they just caught Osama. Freaking idiots!

WOW... Some of you actually think it's because of the DUI laws.

PS, they have five major check points in the community I live; they have two near my old club; none that I am aware or active before 8pm.

Great post.

I know when I was playing a lot with friends as an unmarried guy, we'd hang out somewhere longer, or make a stop somewhere on the way back - depending on where the course was relative to everybody's drive...THEN...

After I got married, we'd tend to meet at my place, car pool to course, play, and have a few at the 19th or elsewhere. Then we'd stop at the store, grab some meat to burn, and go back to my place and BBQ ( I mean make my wife and the girlfriends dinner...). Went over a hell of a lot better, let us hang out without my wife (and their girlfriends) being left out, and we could watch the hockey games all night after without me getting in trouble! During the holidays when everybody had family in town, we'd just book more tee times and have a bigger party afterward...A lot cheaper than being out, and generally much better food & drink! (Lot's of good cooks around!) And of course, the DUI option can be avoided when there's a couch or spare bed around - or take a cab and leave the rig at your friends house instead of across town...

Now we've got a little one, so I'm the guy that can have a beer or three, but then I'm out. The follow me home BBQ is still an option, but of course the hours and environment have changed quite a bit with Jr. around (and that's OK).

A little different than club life, but in a resort town there are so many places to play, joining a club wasn't for us. Anyway, an interesting post!

Interesting thread. Sort of the same idea as the "Neighborhood Bar" slowly but surely becoming extinct. I wonder if there is a correlation.

Social evolution is fascinating, though sometimes sad.

At a Muni where I often play I started talking with this really old guy I've seen around since I started. He's always there, carries one ragged bag with three clubs, sort of drifts through the course, says hi, occasionally putts on the practice green, mostly just stands staring out over the course.... After I got him talking for a while, I hear this:

"Golfed in a social league here for many, many years... There were 40 of us, everyone started golfing at about the same time, turned into fast and true friends. Our wives, too. We used to all vacation together and some of us bought houses next to each other. <pause> I'm the last one left now, they're all gone...."

You can bet the next time I see him, he'll be invited to play.

I think drunk driving laws have also had a large impact, and rightly so.

As a 40-something, I have no interest in cards. I never understood the connection between playing cards and golf. The whole Texas Holdem fad absolutely escapes me. The only time I play cards there better be some chick sitting next to me willing to take something off!

I do understand hanging out and having a couple of drinks, but to me, that's one or two beers and home to the family. The image I get with "sitting around drinking" is a bunch of guys, sports on TV, and several hours of alcohol. Most of them can't walk straight after that.

A- I don't want to drink that much (more than one drink in the state of NJ and you risk a DUI conviction), and B- I don't have that kind of time. I just spent 4-6 hours involved in golf, another hour or so at the bar- guess what- I want to go home.

Maybe I'm too much of a family guy, but I want to see my wife and kid at that point.

"I'm the last one left now, they're all gone...."

You can bet the next time I see him, he'll be invited to play. "

You'll have a great time. We always invite singles to join if we have a spot...And most of the time they'll get in on a game of wolf or something.

You'd be amazed at how many guys like that are around. Guaranteed a good story or ten, and I know we never regret it. Someday could be us, and what we teach the kids today will influence the outcome of that scenario down the road. It's always better as a fourball.

Good Times.

Well, check points, at least my experience in NJ, are designed to catch the younger "night club" crowd. They're usually put up on the popular routes from the clubs late at night. I'm sure it is different in every state where the population density is different.

I'm talking about the guy who leaves the golf course half tanked and runs the stop sign at the end of the street... If we're lucky he won't kill anyone and just wind up in jail, where he belongs.

In case you haven't caught my drift, I'm one of the people who thinks if you've been drinking for several hours at a country club, and you decide to immediately get behind the wheel of a car, you deserve to be in jail. A drink or two is one thing. But I've seen some of these guys put away a fifth of scotch over a card game, then stagger out to their car. Too many horror stories with this in my life. Too many friends are gone over the years, usually victims of the drunk.

I hope those days are over.

As far as the socializing aspect, I think too many clubs are built around the bar and card table. I've spent many a post-round meeting up with the family and having dinner instead. Way more relaxed and enjoyable, at least for me.

Too many men are becoming (to put keep this PG) little kittens. Luckily, the majority of my good friends and golf buddies aren't following the trend but I do have a few. I'm still in my 20's and call me old school if you wish, but spending a few hours at the club or a night out after playing 27 sounds like my kind of Saturday night. Or Tuesday night for that matter.

I do agree though that corporate america does shoulder a good bit of blame with this trend and esp. for young professionals who are stuck working 60 hr/weeks and left with little to no time to play except on the weekends. Too many people I know don't do the whole country club scene not because they can't afford it but because they have no time to play much less socialize beacause they're stuck in the corporate rat race. The ones that do try to play, I have to tell them all the time that unless you man up and start working for yourself then you can forget ever being able to take my cash on the course.

All you poor guys...can't get drunk at the club and drive home anymore, and all because of those damn DUI checkpoints.

Some of you fellas oughta wake up. Drinking and driving isn't about getting a ticket, it's about killing innocent people.

I'm glad the DUI checkpoints are apparently working. Now if only we can stiffen the penalty...how 'bout making a drunk driver walk through a field being bombarded with bullets, cause that's what all of us do when you losers are on the roads.

A DUI checkpoint is generally seen as a good thing...unless your a dumbass drunk driver.

I've had friends killed.

It's $2 beers at my club and our group hangs out all the time.

Umm have you heard of an angry wife?

I see your point and family value, and agree where drunks should be put; but disagree when it comes to being sociable and pro-active in a club. You might be right about clubs and bar's though, because having been on the board of a few Pvt clubs, both inside gated communities, the bar was our biggest money maker; superseding the restaurant. Fortunately the majority of our members lived inside the gates and used golf carts to get to and from...love the life style.

I've worked as a starter this season at my local course and also see less hanging around. I also see a good number of players rushing from the parking lot within minutes of their tee times. It's a go go go world we live in. Computers, emails, fax machines, 300 channels on HDTV - who wants to sit around and play cards with so much to do? Busy, busy! Ain't technology great? Well, it is and it isn't.

I belonged to Fort Jackson GC back in the early 1990's while stationed there. EVERYONE hung out after their Friday afternoon rounds and drank beer, played cards. Heck we had some KILLER putting contests that would include many guys all having fun and drinking some beers.

The fact that many military courses now allow outside play and offer tee times to regular vets (not military retirees) should suggest something...

I think you're seeing the gradual death of the "club" mentality because the Greatest Generation is quickly dying as well. Except for the social and economic "elite" there were no clubs for the average Joe and his family before World War 2. The ending of the war meant that men no longer had the social network the military economy provided. So, you wind up getting a proliferation of all kinds of organizations where men could continue to do stuff together. With post-war prosperity, the community itself branches out into all kinds of clubs. In my home town up here in Canada, with a population of just over 1000, my father belonged to the Knights of Columbus, the Lions Club, Church Council, town council. He played ball till he was 35, played golf, and curled and watched Senior hockey games in winter. I often didn't see him many nights during the week and with me playing all kinds of sports, another post-war boom activity, the family begins to deteriorate in order to better the "village". Long story short, all great civilizations prosper, move towards recreation and sport, become more and more depraved, and eventually crumble. I think we're beginning to witness the end of Western Culture as we know it. Freedoms, well certain freedoms anyway, are being curtailed, money is growing short for a lot of families, recreation is less important as people are forced to focus more on maintaining what little is left of family stability. The internet and the availability of information is just a point and click away, so many people just like being at home, recreating from their busy and often numbing professional lives. I love golf, buying a membership for the first time in almost 15 years this summer, but I see I might not be playing golf next year. Food is more important than golf balls. Not once in the whole summer did I spend any time in the clubhouse having a coffee, meal or drink. I played my round, said goodbye, then returned home. Golf is going back to what is once was, a hobby of the rich and famous.

I think you are my twin!!!!!!

+1. Plus, DWI laws. Also, wish clubs were more affordable. The "average joe" really doesn't have much offered to them. They never were, nor, do I expect that to ever change. That's not placing a blame. Just the way it is around here. Besides, most who I know who are a "member" usually use it only as a social badge.

I've noticed the same thing, My club is having the Closing Stag tomorrow to give out awards. they where supposed to play but it's going to be a high of 34° and snow it will turn into a drink fest. I don't mind having a beer or 2 but i just can't sit at the Bar and just tip them back like in my 20's.

as the OP concluded: "We are blessed to play the game...."

Golf will endure; it may evolve, but it is such a great game that it will endure.

There is absolutely no way to verify this but I will bet that there is no less alcohol consumed by golfers now than 50 years ago. The difference is where it is consumed. Instead of in the club, its on the course - dispensed by the cart girl or carried in a cooler on the golf cart.

In some ways, the old system was better, I think, especially for the non-drinking and/or serious golfer. I have very little patience with the inevitable delays caused by people who think stopping for 5 minutes while the cart girl paws through the cooler looking for some obscure pale ale or the like is their birthright. I hate some drunk launching unguided missiles at me after throwing down a six-pack or two.

Maybe someday drinking and the resulting juvenile behavior by those few who cannot control their behavior could be separated from the rest of us. We have lives and responsibilities. To those who insist on making golf a fraternity party with trees and bunkers I say wait until the round is over and belly up if you wish. But only after I have gone home.

When I was 15 (1971), I had my first experience at a Country Club (as a quest). I never forgot it even to this day. Playing golf on a great sunny day. Taking in all the sights/sounds. Then, showering and getting dressed to go to the dining room to have a great dinner. As it got darker, the dining room & golf course took on a new "atmosphere" that made everything feel special.

Years later, I never joined a club, but my Dad ran a golf leaque that played all over our area. After every round, all the guys would go to the 19th where we would spend hours eating, drinking and socializing. This league went on until 1995. It was some of the best times in my life.
(Note: I know, I know... drinking all those hours. Don't need to hear from the nay sayers. We all drove car pool style and the low-non drinkers always drove afterwards. My Dad did get stopped one time because he felt sleepy and pulled over. A cop asked him for his license and my Dad gave him his score card. True story).

Presently, I belong to a club and when I joined, I asked about the amenities. They informed me of their Pub and dining room. The room was beautiful, overlooking the golf course. They informed me that the dining room is only open two days a week because of the declining membership. They said that members just do NOT hang around like they used too. Also, they would rather eat at the pub, then get changed and eat in the dining room. They also claimed that they lost other members due to the fact that the dining room is not open more frequently.

When I was told this, I too almost declined my membership. Personally, I love the idea of going, with my fiancee, to the course and playing, getting cleaned up and going to dinner. I am NOT a country club snob or socialite. I just enjoy slowing things down and enjoying what the club has to offer.
Today, everyone is in a hurry. I hear golfers all the time say," I'm playing early so I can get done and get it out of the way..." or "...almost done, only two holes left".
They're saying this as if it is a chore to play and get out of there. I myself am always "sad" to see a round come to an end, even if I am playing poorly. I like to treat golf as an event for the day. Something to savor and enjoy, just like a good cigar, dinner, etc... Then after savoring that round of golf, I look forward to having an enjoyable dinner. It's all part of it. Don't mis-understand me, I do the dinner route very infrequently (cost), but if the funds were more available, I would do it at least once a week.

I am not the kind of guy that likes to "stop & smell the roses". I do things very quick and I myself rush around a lot. But that's why I really enjoy the golf day/evening.

All the above posts gave good, valid reasons as to why people are not hanging around clubs anymore. I dispute none of them.
I just wanted to share why I will ALWAYS hang around.

Post the link, interesting thread here

This is link to a PDF of the original article.

http://www.suz.uzh.ch/fux/lehre/Sozialkapi...lone-Putnam.pdf

If you Google "Bowling Alone" you will see a great deal of chatter about Putnam's theories. Sorry, this is what academics do - yammer endlessly about very little. The new book, obviously is not available on line but is available from the usual suspects.

Happy reading.

Well, that's why I belive 6+6, 5+5 or even 4+4 courses are the way of the future.