I was watching the nationwide event this past week along with the Zurich event and I got to wondering the diffrence between the set ups for the 2 tours. Somehow I feel like I read somewhere or was listening to someone on TGC some time back and remembered them say the N.W. courses were more difficult in all aspects than the regular tour stops (not including the majors). Does this hold any water, or is this just an "urban legend" of sorts. Anyone have any experiece to this regard?

Nationwide Tour courses generally are not as difficult as the PGA Tour, if they were then anyone that came off the Nationwide would have immediate success on the PGA Tour. Generally the toughest Nationwide setups are those with the highest purses; from what i understand that is their tour championship and the bank of america open (formerly the LaSalle Bank Open).

Look at the scores too; Nationwide Events most of the time are birdie affairs with very low scores winning compared to the average winning score on the PGA Tour

As a general rule the greens are slightly slower and the fairways are generally a little wider. Some of the courses they play are VERY tough. I believe it's the event right before the US Open is extremely tough with some very high scores.

i know that the Henrico County Open course is not too tough. It is a private course with a neighborhood around it. they couldn't make it too tough because then the residents would complain, however, it has some serious undulation in the greens.

Are their toughest courses on par w/ what they would face on the PGA tour?

Some of their courses are very tough like the Glen Club (Lasalle Bank Open) with all the fescue and everything. But it seems like the ones that are in the private housing communities aren't that difficult.

Scarlet Course Rating Slope Men Buckeye 76.1 142TOTAL 7455
I can promise you that OSU Scarlet where they play the Nationwide Childrens Hospital event is every bit as tough as anything they see on the PGA Tour.

The course also hosts the US Open qualifier and a bunch of NCAA championships.

Rocco shot a 73 their in the qualifier and we all know what happened in the US Open. Couples shot a 72 and Chad Campbell shot a 72 just to give you a few scores. Its a Par 71

I think it has more to do with the condition and setup of the course more than anything. The rough at OSU is not very tall and if you are way off the fairway it gets kinda patchy and you might have a great lie. While the greens are sloped, they are nothing like the PGA Tour courses.

Heres a link to the course. Im lucky enough to play it everyday for $550 unlimited while in school.

http://www.ohiostategolfclub.com/fw/main/Score-Cards-15.html


Here is the results for the Nationwide event. Only 15 players under par and conditions were ideal that whole week.

http://www.pgatour.com/leaderboards/current/h094/

I would agree! The Scarlet Course is brutal. Open q's there are insane. PGA Tour plays a lot of cupcakes as well. The only diff. between Nationwide and PGA ---- flatstick- that's it. Anyone disagrees has never been there.

You have been listening to McNabb again, admit it.

Like what?

WW

I think I read in the book "Paper Tiger" that the Nationwide tends to play courses that aren't PGA level or are some of the older ones that haven't been lengthened to PGA tour length. This means the bomb and wedge guys do well because they don't get penalized too much for bad tee shots since they're relatively close to the green.

I have zero idea if this is actually true or not, I just happened to read it recently.

The Nationwide guys play OSU Scarlet from 7455 and thats a Par 71!! Theres plenty of trouble as well. I really think they could hold a US Open or PGA at Scarlet if they worked on the rough.

I don't know about other courses i just know i get tired of Scarlet kicking my butt everyday from 6700 yards.

I played the Pete Dye Golf Club, host of the NW Player's Cup in Bridgeport, WVa, last fall as a result of a golf scramble we won this time last year. We played it from the member tees and it was a challenging but fair course. If you cant hit the ball 200 yds off the tee, you will leave your ball in the river on two holes.

As far as the greens, some of those greens have about as many mounds on its face as teenager with acne. The greens were extremely fast compared to where I normally play, not near as fast as what the Augusta would be .


Going up to play Tartan Fields, beside Murfield, where they play an LPGA even sometime this summer to see what that course is like.

How did you get a round at Tartan? I would love to play that course.

Dad won it in a raffle at a golf scramble last summer. Couple of these scrambles we play gives out some packages to some nice places.

I would argue it's the speed of the greens that is different, not the course itself. Perhaps the PGA stops are visually more appealing, I don't see the actual tracks as being that different.
I would be interested to know the difference in speeds on the NWT greens versus PGA greens.

About the only difference is the speed of the greens. About 5 or 6 years ago the effort was made to bring all of the Nationwide courses up to PGA standards. The reason was because the Nationwide turned out to be the better proving ground for PGA tour cards than the Qualifying tourney. Hence, the strengthening of the courses. The Dominion Club, which hosted the various forms of the Henrico County Open went from being one of the easiest on tour to one of the more difficult.

The main difference is in the rough. It used to be minimal but not so now. As someone previously said, the flatstick is what separates the two tours. The mentality is different also. Nationwide seems to be a go for broke fire at every pin mentality.

From a strictly live spectator point of view, I prefer the Nationwide tour. Everything is less expensive, the crowds are more manageable and the golf is just as exciting. The only difference is you don't know most of the names. These guys are (also) good!

Having played the Champions in Omaha ... and Dakota Dunes, a old stop. These courses , to these guys, are somewhat like what the PGA guys see at the Bob Hope.

Nationwide guys can really play ... it was not uncommon for them to shoot -20 at these two courses. While not extremely hard ... they weren't goat ranches either.

On that tour, no matter what the stop ... you better be ready to go low

I had a conversation with a Nationwide Rules official last year at the Chattanooga Classic and asked him the same question. He told me that Nationwide courses are set up easier, because first and foremost they want these guys to get used to making birdies and going low, because that is what it takes to be successful on Tour. The Nationwide Tour truly wants these guys to succeed at the next level.

He also said that the Nationwide is a developmental tour and thus tries to develop players....not destroy them, which is also a big reason for the easier set ups

About as good as it gets right there ...

On any given day, Nationwide guys will absolutely shred that golf course. Not long (by tour standards), big greens, fairly wide open. There is indeed fescue out there but rarely comes into play for these guys. Their few defenses are tucking pins and praying for wind, which is usually the norm out there. Save for '06 (horrible weather that year if I remember correctly), the winning score is around 12-17 under. In the last few years, changed par from 72 to 71 as well...

They generally aren't as well manicured. Maybe in some ways that makes it more difficult because you get worse lies and your putts are bumpier. But as far as layout, I would say tour courses are harder.

The PGA Tour and NW Tour have agronomists that meet with the course superintendant to see how things are growing. The Tour requires courses to grow their fairways and rough a certain height, they ask the courses to narrow or widen certain parts of the fairway within reason and mow heights on the greens.

Just because the NW tour doesn't get a lot of play on TV, doesn't mean the courses are any harder or difficult. Let's also remember the difference in skill between NW tour and PGA Tour players. Many people, including myself, liken the NW tour to the AAA equivalent in Major League Baseball. I believe that to be a fair comparison but the skill level on the PGA Tour is much more difficult.

Usually the difference between AAA baseball players and those that play in the show is 100% mental.

I imagine the same goes for those guys on the Nationwide Tour as well.

Not true ... the difference is flat-out talent. You either have enough or you don't.

If that was true then guys like Daly, Duval, Ty Tryon, Ricky Barnes would all still be competing on the PGA Tour. The have the same if not more talent than 75% of the golfers out there.

To say that its all about talent is wrong. If your not mentally strong, your very unlikely to succeed.