My old golf teacher told me that you don't tip a starter unless they do something extra for you, like squeeze you in as a walk-on on a crowded day.

So last year, we're at a semi-private club, and the starter keeps standing there waiting. And my buddy is whispering to me asking if we should tip him. Eventually, one of the guys tosses him a couple of bucks, and we all feel cheap.

Then somebody else told me that this is more common at private clubs. Any comments would be appreciated.

Part two: Do you tip when you drop your clubs off at the bag drop, or when you pick them up?

I have played or caddied on likely a couple hundred courses in my lifetime and I have never even heard of tipping the starter. The starter?? You have got to be kidding me. Even worse for him to stand there and wait - if you do that, then you are guaranteed not to get a tip from me, and I'm a pretty solid tipper. Sheesh - why not tip the pro for being so kind as to allow you on the course for your tee time? Tip the greenskeeper for making the greens nice and true? The grounds crew for raking the bunkers? Amazing.

At the bag drop I tip a couple / few bucks when I pick my clubs up.

I'm not a country club type, but I've never heard of that. Tip caddies sure.

Just do whatever you think is right. This guy probably just sensed you guys didn't know what to do in the situation and thought he could get some extra cash if he hung around.

I don't understand where he was hanging around you by the way. You mean he followed you on your round?

No, this all happened prior to the first tee. The starter gave us the welcome to the course speech (stay on the path on #7, etc, etc). But, he was kind of blocking our path.

First of all, starter speeches are usually pretentious and annoying. It's like settle down and get over yourself mr. starter, I get it, this is a golf course with a thing or two that is mildy unique. That right there is the only "tip" I would ever give a starter. That starter must be a real a-hole if he's looking for a tip. Do not cave in to that kind of crap, ever.

And definitely no on tipping bag drop and club cleaning people. I don't want or need those services and am not about to tip some selfish employee looking to push them on me. It's so easy, unnecessary and worthless.

Never heard of tipping the starter. Squeeze me in? Either there's an opening or not.

I never drop my bag off at the club drop, EVER. I generally have to get stuff in or out of my bag before I play, so I do that at the car.

The starter at my club has taken care of me as a new member. He deserved a nice tip at the end of the first season and he got one.


This is different than the extorting type starter at a muni that takes a payoff allowing certain groups to avoid the normal procedure for getting tee times.

I completely disagree with this. Most golf courses the pro asks their cart staff to do this service. If you don't want the service, tell them "No thanks" but they are not being selfish by doing it. A lot of the money they make comes from tips they receive. Most people on the cart staff make minimum wage and getting tips just helps their pay.

Many people in the fast food industry make minimum wage. Do you tip the person at the McDonald's drive thru because he/she handed you a Big Mac, fries and a drink? Just asking...

Kevin

Tipping the starter is not an uncommon practice when the Starter takes care of you

Example, group shows up late for a 730am tee time and the sheet is full until 130pm, the starter hustles a few groups and gets them out a few minutes earlier to create a gap and gets your group out. He should be tipped. As for the starter speeches, many times its necessary as many people act like complete fools when behind the wheel of a golf cart

they may make minium wage, but they get free golf usually

being on cart staff isn't really a career, it's a job you take when you're a kid or in school

you don't support a family by working in the cart barn

Depends where you live
the average age of my outside staff is 33 and they all make a good living by people that tip them for taking care of them

wow, I guess you're right it certainly does depend on where you live

I used to work in a cart barn and it was all high school kids, just working for extra spending money (used to make $4.25/hr!)

the area I live in now, looks like most of the cart staff/range staff are more of the migrant worker type

yea, they get 8.50 per hour and average around 100.00 a day in unreported tips
tournaments is where they clean up as when we sell a tournament we charge a bag fee for each guest

working at a semi private club, both as a bag boy (pick your stuff up at the car) and as a starter i have found that tipping normally works as such (or seems fair to me):

tip anywhere from $2-$20 a bag when you are greeted at your vehicle, and your clubs are then picked up.

as a starter; i dont expect a tip, unless i do something extra, i typically scrub down clubs whenever guys are making the turn and stop in the clubhouse (anywhere from $1-$5); and then for other playing privileges (such as getting you out to a certain hole with your group, letting you sneak out before the tee time, or go out after the last tee time... et cetera) tips have a much broader range and it just depends on what they are looking for. most all members know how to tip, but for our guests a good rule of thumb, is tip when greeted, and tip at the end when your clubs are cleaned and taken back to your vehicle....

maybe that cleared something up lol

That's pretty damn good pay for someone who loads and unloads bags, cleans clubs, sprays down the carts and picks the range. Figure 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and that's $840 a week, but only $340 is taxed. Run that out 40 weeks a year and it's almost $34,000 PLUS free golf and discounts on equipment (in most cases). Taxable income is shy of $14,000, so they make $20,000 untaxed. And they typically get free or deeply discounted meals in the club house.

When my wife stopped teaching 5 years ago, she was making $34,000 a year. She has a bachelors degree and was dealing with learning disabled kids 5 days a week from 8 am to 3 pm. But she never got tips for doing her job....

Kevin

HAHAHA we're not telling you about the course rules to get a TIP from you, we do other things worthy of tips; we have to say most of that crap because we're required to (i work at a semi-private resort course). the only time a starter expects a tip is when he gets you out in front of everyone, or gets you on when the tee sheet is full from 6am to 3pm...

and if you do not want or need your clubs cleaned, just tell me no thanks, it doesnt bug me one bit, i can go take care of someone else, some people like being catered to, and tip in accordance to that. At my course we dont push it on anyone, i'l come up and ask if you would like your clubs cleaned, about half the people say no... so i go to someone else who does lol.

i make minimum wage but get free golf and good tips from the 95% of people who tip well at my course!

love my job, and i understand that people dont want me to touch their clubs or greet them; thats fine by me, just say no thanks and i'll be on my way. i completely understand how some courses can be pushy and expect tips, however i just do my job and if you want to tip me, i really appreciate it. i dont think i would get tipped if i didnt do my job right, people do not just throw money around lol

People do not just throw money around? Lol indeed. That is exactly who tips a lot is people who carelessly throw money around, either because they're rich enough to afford it or because they're a wannabe rich poser. These are exactly the people who pay through tips the absurd 34,000 a year for cart boys that that other guy in this thread was talking about. Likely it's at a resort course where people come knowing they will be blowing money. It would be even more typical if it were in Vegas. The only other people who tip silly things like what's mentioned in this thread are people who are guilted into it by pushy employees. And while you may not be one of those pushy employees, there are a ton of them out there.

Haha, exactly. Wait, actually, I completely disagree, at most McDonalds the manager asks the drive thru staff to do this service. If you don't want the service tell them no thanks but they are not selfish by doing it and looking for tips. The staff could make a lot more money from tips (and customers could lose a lot more money from tips), most of the drive thru staff just makes minimum wage and getting tips helps their pay. From now on I will say thanks for putting my quarter pounder with cheese inside a bag and handing it to me and I will tip them between $1 and $5, oh, you put napkins in there too, another $1 to $5 coming your way, wait is that a ketchup packet, take this Abe Lincoln for your troubles you oh so kind drive thru staff member, it has been a pleasure being unnecessarily ripped off by you.

Working the drive thru at McD's is A LOT harder than working a bag drop and brushing off clubs. It's even slightly harder than being a starter. And all of them are extremely easy. I love to hear biased golf course employees talking about how noble and deserved it all is in an effort to protect the racket, so ridiculous. If some people want to pay for a guy to set their bag in a cart, tell you it's a 90 degree rule today, and clean your clubs after the round, ok. But let's not pretend it's not completely frivilous.

It's also funny how these people act like they're really doing you a friendly favor as if they are unselfish long lost friends......and then they want cold hard cash for it. Newsflash, that is not a favor, that is a deal, a deal you're trying to guilt trick people into by posing it as a favor.

Lets not make excuses for the finacially challenged.

you sound kind of grumpy? are these experiences you've had at "resort" type of courses? when i'm at a resort type of golf course i'm on vacation and generally in a good mood. so if the staff does something nice beyond the minimum required i will tip. if you don't want your clubs clean just say, "no thanks, don't need them cleaned." but if the guy cleans them for you give him a couple of bucks. i have family memebers who are in the service industry who rely on tips as part of their income, so i'm biased and generally a big tipper.

That single sentence encompasses the BS surrounding the tipping issue. It's the typical "he doesn't tip because he's cheap" or "he doesn't tip because he can't afford it." Do you ever stop and think about how freaking stupid tipping is in some instances? Here are some places I see tip jars:

- Take-out counter at a restaurant. Please explain to me why I should tip someone if I pick up my food. I'm not getting any table service.

- Starbucks. I go there every day and order a regular coffee, not one of those 12 word foamy things. Should I tip the person because they pulled the lever on the coffee container and filled the cup? I don't think so. I figure that's part of the $2 cost.

These are just a couple examples I see on a daily basis. And trust me, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with finances. It's about the principle.

Kevin

BTW, it's ridiculous to start comparing salaries of teachers with bag boys. If teachers feel they aren't making enough then they should quit and get a different job where they feel they are adequately compensated. don't take it out on a bag boy because you think that they are overpaid. it's a free country!

i tip at starbucks because i don't want to carry the loose change in my pockets.
i tip at the take-out counter if the take-out girl is cute ;-)

That's laughable. You say a teacher should quit and get a different job if they feel underpaid. Yet you are inherently defending a bag boy who relies on the generosity of others and their tips. Trust me, our country would be just fine without bag boys. Take away teachers and see where we end up.

It is what it is my man

maybe if the teachers did a better job we wouldnt have grown men as cart boys

the two have nothing to do with each other. you feel like teachers are underpaid, so therefore you're going to take it out on everybody who you think are overpaid? i think i'm underpaid, so i shouldn't tip my hairdresser or the waitress?

teachers know that teachers don't get paid much. yet they still choose the profession. good for them, it's a noble career. but don't then complain about how underpaid you are. you chose the career.

reminds me of some of my doctor friends who complain about their student loans. they all knew that med school would be expensive. they all chose to go to med school. no surprises. yet they still complain about the loans.

Heck, if I had to choose one of those two jobs at the same pay I'd be a cart guy all day, every day. That's a no brainer. Free golf, equipment discounts, the same pay or more AND I don't have to deal with whining kids and their "my child can do no wrong" parents.

I dunno, my sister is a teacher and she gets summer off

Hell Paul Goydos was a substitute teacher in California and it worked ok for him

as for what some bag guys make, it all depends on location and the Property, but lets also remember that Valets here in Vegas pull 60-80k a year

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about taking it out on everybody else because I think they're overpaid. Frankly, until that guy posted the information about what his cart guys make, I never knew it was so lucrative. I choose to tip or not to tip based solely on the service I receive. I've never asked to see a person's W-2 or 1099 before making a decision on a tip.

I brought up teachers simply as a comparison. I could use numerous others including military personnel, police, fire fighters, etc. Yes, those people all chose their professions and probably knew going in that they would be underpaid compared to other professions. But those are ALL critical professions. Please don't tell me that you think the cart boy profession (if there is such a thing) is critical.

Kevin

I have only seen one time when the starter was tipped, and it is whenever he gets a particular group of regulars out when they walk in on a crowded day. the group usually tips him $10, but that is the ONLY time I have ever seen a starter tipped.

Ok, I work as a cart attendant at a public golf course. I am a teenager in high school

1. If you dont want your clubs cleaned, just say so
2. We split tips and in season there is usually 4 of us working, so $100 in tips is actually $25 a person
3. The towels your clubs are cleaned with are usually changed a few times a day to keep em clean.
4. Water used is also changed quite often
5. If your clubs are pretty dirty, a $1 tip doesnt hurt

And lastly just a pretty cool experince: While working a morning shift in season last year I got to meet Brian Mitchell (as an Eagles fan, it was pretty cool). He was very nice. I made sure I was on 18 when his group was finishing up so I could talk to him again (tip might have also had a little to do with it)

Cart attendants 99% of the time make minimum wage, tips always help. In my case I am saving for college (thank you mom and dad for no college fund!) if every person gave a $1 tip, it would be nice.

Also, I have noticed, people usually tip more when playing with someone else, when alone 99% of the time it is either nothing or a $1 tip. Just something i have noticed, not looking for anybody's reaction.

ALSO the average day is about $10-20 in tips NOT $100 (most tips I have ever gotten is $50)

Keep up the good work, many of us have been there, hell I used to sneak on a private club in LA as a kid and they threw me out so many times they finally offered me a job in the cart barn so I wouldnt sneak out anymore lol

I would say you seem like you are on the right path to college and its good to see a young guy with your work ethic

Yes, upscale and resort courses, many times. There are some nice layed back ones which I like very much but many times they get really pushy with fake friendliness and unnecessary services when what they're really doing is looking for cash for themselves, classic Eddie Haskell routine. They clean your clubs without even asking, and are looking to do all kinds of things for you without asking, because they know if they asked you'd have the opportunity and would probably take it to say no and they selfishly don't want that. They want you to feel bad about stopping them in the middle of their fake nice activity and then you feel obligated and guilted into giving them money, and people who are gullible will fear being called "cheap" or 'financially challenged". It's unethical.

Jason, did you see how I accurately knew you were from a resort course in Vegas. I didn't even look at your location that I just noticed now says skin city. I could tell by your biased bs efforts defending tipping and that you were hoping people would think it's cool to be a 35 year old bag boy sponging off careless, rich, guilted vacationers. And with logic as deep as "it is what it is". It is a total con game. It's a successful con game, it works well, but please, don't pretend it's not a con game resulting in undeserved selfish money being made by cart boys, and understand it's obnoxious for people who don't get conned by it. You have nothing of logic to say to the contrary just an attempt at a guilt trip with the financially challenged comment. Like the reasonable person tparrif said, it's not the money it's the principle. Valets in Vegas are overpaid con artists as well, let's not pretend that's not true either. And there is nothing wrong with discussing and having a problem with what jobs are underpaid and overpaid. That is a smart topic of conversation. You just biasedly don't want to touch it since you're on the overpaid side. I've been on both sides btw.

llumpire. That is a good insight that people alone don't tip like people in a big group. A good example of how tipping is largely an ego thing and a guilt thing of not wanting to look cheap in front of people. It's great you want to go to college and I assume you don't get all pushy with the attempts at getting tipped and understand that people are not obligated to donate to your scholarship fund. But working as a cart boy and starter too, is mind numbingly easy. I've done both. It doesn't deserve much pay and is really more about the free golf.

I understand not everyone will tip, and am perfectly fine that. Heck before I started working as a cart attendant, when my Dad and I would go golfing I would ask him why he tips the people at bag drop.

I cant argue with that quote, my previous job was at a 7-Eleven (I had to "resign" because my Dad worked in a different market, they dont like 2 members of a family working for them), this is the easiest job I could imagine. And I would do it without pay for the golf, I was simply clarifying that unlike someone said, I nor does any cart attendant I have ever met make $8.50 an hour or $100 in tips.

Billy did you eat paint chips as child? you are very bitter over someone performing a service and getting paid for it. maybe if you had 2 nickels to rub together you wouldnt be so hostile towards a part of society. You are obviously a cheak skate charley and bitching and complaining about it proves it.
ever notice that its the people that pay the least that complain the most

Billy you have identified yourself as the frugal person in this thread, now move along and go pick up some extra hours so you can afford to get out of the house

JA5ON -

Is that really the way you think? If it is, then man you are warped. The guy doesn't see the value in this alleged "service" that is performed, and therefore doesn't see the need to tip. And then you go off on the guy calling him a cheap skate.

If you'd like, you and I can post our tax returns for the last few years and let everyone see who has more nickels to rub together. If you work in the golf industry, I'm 100% confident I make more than you. Let's just say I pay more in taxes than many people make in a year. I'm not saying that to pound my chest, but rather to show you that it has absolutely nothing to do with one's income.

You're in the business, so you think it's great. Fine. But don't call people cheap or frugal because they don't want your services.

Kevin

P.S. I'm sure the PGA would be very proud of the way you represent the industry.

When that idiot is calling me a con artist im going to take it personal , Nobody is telling him he has to tip, im informing him how society works, because clearly he hasnt a clue. Dont complain about people in a position that earn a tip.

Its not my service, I dont work for tips
congrats you make more than me, yay, wanna play for some of it.

I atleast know how to be a productive part of society and take care of those that take care of me.


You guys can make all the excuses in the world for not needing a service, but cheap is cheap plain and simple

I've NOT seen anybody in my two upscale pvt clubs where I've been a member tip. We had no tipping rules for specific reasons, but despite those rules a few members do so quietly. Also the other private clubs I've visited had NO tipping rules too. That said there's always people that think they are above the rules.

Where I've noticed poorly trained club employees with their hands out has been at high end resort clubs. I don't tip unless someone does something that's beyond their job description that effects me in a good way.

If I don't need the service, then how am I (or anyone else) being cheap? Seriously man! Do you just throw money at people for doing nothing? If so, I'll give you some commercial real estate finance advice that you don't need and you can send me some money.

When I play golf, I carry a large towel. Half is wet, and half is dry. After every shot, I take about 2 seconds and wipe the club face. So when I'm done with my round, I don't need some guy running over to my clubs to clean them when they are already clean. So where's the "service" in that? And how many times do these guys rub their towels over my already clean clubs like they actually did something? Call it cheap if you want, but I don't need someone doing a job when I already did it.

C'mon. This has gotten way out of line. If someone chooses not to tip, then it's their prerogative. Tipping is OPTIONAL the last time I checked. If your employees aren't making enough, then give them raises. And the attitude your put forth is one that makes people post like they do about tipping.

I'd be happy to play you for cash. There's a certain amount of money that gets anyone off their game. I'd just need to find yours!

Kevin

Thank you! That's the point of a tip. Not to pay someone for doing his/her job, but to reward exceptional service.

You must be cheap like the rest of us who don't throw $5 to everyone we see.

Kevin

Kev, I was not implying that everyone should tip, read billys posts, he is belittling anyone that does tip or works for tips, he simply doesnt get it. I do the same as you, keep a clean towel, wash all my own clubs etc. I tip guys at the bag drop, the starter only if he goes out of his way to get us out early on a busy day, and the kid that lets us drive down to the lot and takes the cart from us so he can clean it.

it sounds like some people are too timid to say "no" then complain that con artists are taking advantage of them. if the guy starts cleaning your clubs and you don't need them cleaned just say, "appreciate it, but I don't need my club cleaned." end of story. he stops, you don't tip. if you're too afraid to say "no" then tip out of guilt, well that's really your problem. when a stock broker calls you to buy stocks do you just rollover and say yes, then complain about how they hustled you into buying stocks you didn't want/need?

the bag boy is just like you and me, out to make a living. he's making an honest living, not stealing, not begging. he's trying to provide you some service in return for a gratuity. what's the big deal?

you guys do sound really grumpy and/or cheap. saying these bag boys try to hustle people is a bit too much. are you guys the same people who don't say "thank you" for services rendered because, well, it's part of the job? is this anger at tipping just toward bag boys or everybody (bell hops, waiters, hairdressers, etc.)?

is there really much of a difference between an over aggressive bag boy who just starts washing your clubs and a homeless guy who starts washing your windshield at a red light?


I'm sure there are some golfers out there that would probably throw a fit and complain if the bag boy didn't wash up the clubs after your round though too.

huge difference. when i say "thanks but no thanks" to the bag boy he stops and moves on (and if he doesn't then he can't expect a tip). try getting a homeless guy to stop cleaning your windshield--good luck. they won't stop and will damage your car if you don't tip them.

the question is: is cleaning clubs part of the bag boy's job description? is serving food part of a waiter's job description? is cutting hair part of a hair dresser's job description?

Are you seriously trying to draw an analogy between saying "thank you" and foregoing the club cleaning / tip? "Thank you" is a common courtesy and just plain good manners. It's not optional IMO. Tipping, however, is optional.

I tip very well where the service is rendered and necessary (waiters, hair stylist, valet). I can't serve myself in a restaurant unless it's a buffet; I can't cut my own hair, or at least I choose not to; and often times, I don't park my own car because the lot is too full, it's raining, or I'm just in a hurry or too lazy. In all of those cases, it's a choice I make and not one that is pushed on me.

But in the case of the club washers, as I posted earlier, I don't need this service, yet it is often pushed on me and others. I've seen cases where there are guys hanging out by the 18th hole. When you leave your cart to go to the green, they swarm the cart and start "cleaning" your clubs. Do I have the option of passing on that service? If I yell from the green, "hey, my clubs are fine. Thanks." then guys like you will say I'm cheap because I choose to pass on the "service" I don't need because my clubs are already clean.

It's really a no-win situation for the golfer. You really have 3 choices:

1. Let the guy "clean" your clubs and tip him.
2. Let the guy "clean" your clubs and don't tip him. Guys like you will say that person is grumpy or cheap.
3. Pass on the "service". Again, guys like you will say that person is grumpy or cheap.

The bottom line is that there are people who see value in this service and tip for it. And there are people who see no value in it and choose to pass on it. I don't think either is wrong.

Kevin

+1 on that. My GF is a teacher and she makes half way decent money, but no where near what she probably should. Plus it is not up to the teachers as to how much they get paid, they have teachers unions (don't even get me started on that crap). Bag boys don't spend 4+ years in college and credential programs earning a degree for the privilege to schlep bags.

the job of a waiter is to serve you food. that's a waiter's job. why would you tip him? he's not doing anything beyond his job description! yet when it comes to a bag boy you think it's part of his job so you don't tip? come on, be consistent.

I am VERY consistent. I CHOOSE to go to a restaurant and CHOOSE to tip the server if he/she did a good job. I CHOOSE to get my hair cut by someone else and tip her accordingly. Keep in mind that my hair stylist is self employed. She rents a booth and doesn't have a salary. Beg (oops, bag ) boys do have hourly pay. But when I CHOOSE to pass on what I think is a BS service, then I shouldn't be persecuted or called "cheap" or "grumpy" for not tipping.

I don't tip because the person does his/her job, I tip because they go above and beyond. Geez, if I tipped every time someone did their job, I'd be broke. Hey Mr. Postman, here's a fiver for delivering my mail today. Oh, and Mr. Sanitation Worker, here's a fiver for you too for picking up my trash. Which reminds me, I need to head down to the police station and give all the people who protect and serve a little $5 tip today for keeping me safe. I figure that should cost me a few hundo, but hey, I don't want to be cheap now, do I?