I don't want to recap the entire piece but in a nutshell, they had a couple mini tour players on (one might have even been in or played on the Nationwide tour) that are african-american....talking about race, etc. One of them called out Tiger saying that he thinks Tiger 'owes' him more....this confused me. I realize that Tiger not saying that he is african-american offends or disappoints some african-americans but he has made it clear that he is "??????????" - sorry but I don't know the term, a word that he made up that includes all of his races. The interview led me to believe that this person (because he is a golfer and african-american) thinks that Tiger should pick up the phone, call him, find out what he can do to help, pull him into his circle, and make sure he succeeds. Was I confused or is that what he was looking for? I always thought (from marketing, etc....so maybe I'm a moron) that most feel he has opened doors for everyone. I also realize that the economic situations that we are in right now have certainly hurt the game (for just about everyone) so is this the bigger problem?

I'll stop no because before I get too deep, I was just wondering if anyone saw it and felt like discussing it.

Thanks,

Randy

tiger is not african american, he is half thai? right?

"cablinasian"

I think that is right.....causcasian, african-american, american indian, asian.

Just interesting to hear those comments about him. I always hear about his foundation and all the money he gives to help people....but I guess someone will always want more. Also, he was asked about this and his foundation and said the his foundation isn't a golf foundation, it is to help turn people into leaders....that is what he wants it to be - end of conversation.

I saw it. I especially enjoyed the interviews with the three gents (Lerner, Blackistone, and the guy from African American Golf Digest).

I came away wondering what Tiger owes anyone too. He (along with the direction of his late father) is responsible for his success. He entered the Jr. tournaments, took the lessons, etc. that led to him being of the path for success. His family was not wealthy compared to the general public. In the end, his skills were what set him apart from his peers.

The interviews with Payton, O'neal, and the other African American golfer left me wondering just what they expected Tiger to do.

I thought Lerner captured it best (at least IMO) when he said something to the effect of, "what is the score on the card?"

I don't believe Tiger owes anyone anything (outside of those whom he employs).

P.S. I am not a Tiger Woods fan, but a person who believes strongly that logic and common sense are seldom used these days.

I saw it pretty interesting, I remember Tim Oneal when he was on the Nationwide tour, they came to my area. I talked to him on the range and he was actually playing well, I think tied for 10th?. I don't think Tim would have a issue had he made that put in Q school he would have his card. Golf is not a cheap sport to play and Rich Lerner made the best point, their are basketball courts everywhere and it costs nothing to play. Golf is a different story.

To me in total respect to the African American Community, I feel Tiger was raised more under an "Asian" household. Closely watched by his parents, quite well off, chose to go to Stanford University to stay close to home, influenced greatley by his parents, etc.

Again no disrespect at all to the African American community but the traditional story is a guy who grew up underprivileged, grew up in the streets and had to struggle to make it. Tiger did none of this as his parents never struggled for money, never couldn't afford clubs for him, etc.

Now even though Tiger didn't grow up like the average African American success story he still gives back tens of millions of dollars each year to ensure kids have the same opportunity he does.

To me personally I see Tiger more as an Asian American then an African American just by his demeanor and the way he was brought up, I think his story is much closer to Anthony Kim then it is to your average NBA player.

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone in this post, in this post I'm not trying to say "All African Americans grow up poor, or all African Americans run the streets", etc. etc. but the ones your hear about most becoming famous in the sports or entertainment world grew up like this.

I gained more respect for Lerner through his interview. Again, I felt he offered very strong points, including the basketball courts.

How many hundreds of guys of other nationalities toil in the "minor leagues" of golf?

I doubt we see an OTL next week about how young Swedish golfers feel Jesper Parnevik owes them something due to his success on the PGA Tour.

Tiger is a proverbial lightning rod, whether it be good or bad attention. Being famous must really be tough (at times).

Standard ESPN inflammatory hack journalism article.

The problem with the short part I saw is it focused too much on 'what race Tiger is' and whether or not he 'owes' something to the golfers coming up. Tiger couldn't and shouldn't look at golf opportunities from a 'race' perspective.

It ignores the much bigger issue, IMHO, of economics, sponsorship and the resources it requires to be a world class golfer in this day and age. Years ago, even as recently as when Tiger was coming up - it was a matter of talent and opportunity. Now it's AJGA tournaments, sponsorships, high dollar instructors and the right exposure to be recognized as an aspiring junior before you even get to high school tournaments. You have to wonder how many middle class to poorer talented golfers aren't going to get the opportunity to blossom and will take their talents into other endeavors.

Tiger has been am ambassador for the game, and his race played a role in getting lots of people who hadn't considered golf to play...especially younger people and minorities. (Myself included, at the time Tiger burst on the scene I was a 23 year old black guy who had ZERO interest in golf. Because of Tiger I got started playing and have been addicted every since.) His foundation is about helping young people in general....regardless of their golf ability, which is a lot broader and will have a much greater impact than assisting a group of golfers get rich at the sport.

I'd much rather see an ESPN OTL the lines story focus on a spiraling costs of junior sports as a whole and the impact of the costs of club baseball, hockey, soccer and other sports has potentially limited the opportunities of a lot of gifted athletes without the economic means to play year round select sports.

I saw the peice, it was really wierd, they were blaming Tiger they were not on tour essentially. To me it sounds like they should be working harder on their game not blaming the best player in the world. To me this is similar to what is going on with the economy and politics in general, let's throw the blame at those who are successful and not look in the mirror and take accoutability with ourselves. This whole mentality is leading to Nanny State thinking where everyone wants to be equal, and are jealous of those who have acheived success. Does this guy really think he deserves to be on tour just because he is black, for the sake of equality. Try shooting a few 65's in Q-school then you will be where you want to be. Until then spend more time practicing and playing. One thing people fail to realize is that Tiger works harder getting better than just about anyone. Same with Michael Jordan and all the other greats, people only see what they see on Sunday, what they dont see is how much hard work takes place Monday through Wednesday, or on his weeks off.

The great thing about the game of golf is no one is given a contract to set on the bench or play in the minors, you either perform or miss the cut, your scorecared determines your success, and you have no one to blame but the man in the mirror.

Where the peice was dead on was that golf carts are killing caddy programs nationwide and that kids from the inner city dont have much opportunity to play the game. There were many more black players back in the 70's because of caddy programs. Tiger got what he needed to be a great champion because of his parents, they provided what he needed financially and emotionally, even though they were not rich. The show would have been much better if it would have focused on why the parents of these aspriring golf pros did not have the parental support to allow them to realize thier dreams. But that would not have been as "PC" now would it? The guy who really bothered me in the peice was Eddie Payton, Walters brother, who is the golf coach at Jackson State. He stated he was a failure because he was not sending black's to the tour, but then seems to place the blame on the PGA tour and Tiger for not doing more.

Affirmative action will not work in golf, again shoot he lowest score then your score is what it is, blame the communities the kids grow up in, blame the parents, but don't blame Tiger his job is to be a role model and play golf. Tiger has built his foundation, the first Tee program has been created, give it some time. Seriously they were just trying to create a racially sensitive story on Outside the Lines out of nothing really. I think it would be great if there were more minorities in pro golf, but for the next 10 years at least it appears they will be Asian, not African American. Of course the way things are going the world tours may end up in Asia, then the whites going to China to play in the big money events may be the minorities some day.

If the black community is really concerned about having some of thier own on the PGA tour they should do more with grass roots development, do what they do in Korea or Sweeden, identify talent when it is young and create community programs to develop that talent. Offer scholarships to those who deserve, develop more programs for kids to play golf on public courses, etc. but don't blame Tiger, and spend your time building what you want to build, don't spend your energy tearing down what you are jealous of.

With all due respect....your post minimizes the impact Earl Woods - far and away the biggest influence in Tiger's life.

According to your logic (middle class, closely watched by parents, went to a good college) my parents much be more Asian than black as well.....




Edit: I think both of his parents did a wonderful job and both contributed to raising a great kid. There are good and bad parents of every ethnicity, race, religion, etc - trying to paint any of them with a broad brush gets us on a very slippery slope....

I agree that it is hard with golf because of the cost.....and is certainly easier for those with a little more money.

Also, I am not a professional athlete so I guess it didn't really work for me but......there were many times as a kid that I played baseball with a stick or football with a taped up mass of paper. You also hear about some latino golfers that learned hitting tape balls with sticks in an empty lot next to their house. I just feel that if you have to have the desire and ability to make it on your own, you'll succeed....relying on someone else will only get you so far. It might take a lot more desire and ability for some, but if you can start posting 65's on your card, you'll start opening your own doors.

I agree with MBIUcrscj. but his mom is 100% thai, and i think that because tiger doesn't acknowledge that much in the question 'what race are you', much of the thai golfing community doesn't full 'accept' him as a thai. just my two cents.

I think there is a widespread perception that Tiger is black, and a lot of that comes from his appearance. He's dark-skinned but some of that is tan. He keeps his hair short and at that length it resembles afro hair but grown out I think it'd be more wavy than anything. I think early photo's of the teen years can confirm this. Some of Tiger's facial features resemble stereotypical black features but some of these appear to come from mama Woods as well.

Ya, I have thought about this before. It's an issue I am close to. It says something about people's perceptions. I mean Tiger is not even 1/2 black origin, he's more Asian descent than anything else, but people would rather believe in the appearance.

I agree with MBIU as well.

That is not what I meant at all...I was getting at the fact the African American community wants Tiger to be a poster boy for young kids to try to get them involved in the game solely because of the colour of his skin.

To be fair I would say if Tiger Woods was not famous he wouldn't relate to 90% of the kids they are trying to target, outside his skin colour.

I was; like stated, using the majority of the population...obviously there are exceptions to the rule, and I clearly stated "I'm not trying to say "All African Americans grow up poor, or all African Americans run the streets"

I was merely saying I don't believe Tiger related to a specific group and should be an ambassador for every walk of life, he shouldn't just focus on the young African Americans because I feel he doesn't relate to most of them other then being famous.

Can Tiger stand up infront of a group of 100 inner city kids and talk about how tough life was for him growing up? He can provide them amazing life lessons, a memorable day but I don't feel he's a great spokesperson for a specific demoraphic and I said if there was one demographic he could relate to best it would be asian american kids.

-Whoah! thats new! cablinasian! anyways, thanks!!

News Flash: Golf is expensive for white people and for black people ( and all other people ).

Other than access, which IMO is more of a socio-economic issue the vast majority of the time, I believe golf is a sport that offers less opportunity for discrimination. Post the lowest number, you win. You don't have to be chosen by a coach for more playing time (most ball sports) and your outcomes are not produced by judges (gymnastics, skating, diving, etc.).

While there are surely clubs and leaders that discriminate, I believe it is a very small %. While Augusta National may not have any black members, I don't think that's a big limiting factor as far as having more black professional golfers. And as to not pick on AN, there are a bunch of rich white guys who can't get in there either despite REALLY wanting to be members...

This isn't meant to be a racism discussion. Personally, I was more discouraged by the sense of entitlement....white, asian...poor/rich...man/woman, etc. I also don't want to get into politics with this but like someone else said, this is the problem today. Making something of yourself isn't your job anymore, it is your teacher's, some rich guy's, or your government's responsiblity,....not yours, not your parents', etc.

Tiger was hardly well off. His family lived quite modestly on a military income.

Rather than calling it being brought up "Asian" let's just call it a good way to bring up a child that more families might consider adopting. Tiger's parents taught Tiger the power of hard work and responsibility for himself and his choices. Good choices eventually lead to good outcomes.

This is going to ruffle a few feathers, and I promise to do my very best not to pontificate like I usually do, but I am sick and tired of hearing excuses. Everyone has an excuse for why they aren't getting the job done. I'm sorry some people are poor, grew up in a bad neighborhood, have bad breath and an ugly nose. Deal with it. Overcome. Find a way to get the job done.

We all have issues and obstacles in our path. There is no such thing as a level playing field and we aren't all equal. Some obstacles are bigger than others and some have more to deal with than their peers - life is like that. Successful people find a way to reach their goals regardless. Losers find excuses.

The second thing I am tired of is people feeling entitled to everything. It's ruining our society, and this is an example of it. Tiger doesn't owe anyone anything. Rather than whine about how Tiger owes them, maybe these guys should put their heads down, work harder than they are, and find a way to win on their own.

As long as a person makes excuses, blames others for their lot in life and waits for someone to help them, they will always be a victim. As soon as they take charge of their lives and the choices they make, they will cease being a victim and become successful.

It isn't really a racial issue, that is just this gang's excuse.

Maybe Tiger and the rest of us owe them a swift kick in their collective crotches for being whiny beotches.

Augusta does have black members BTW, just no female members, but women are allowed to play with memebers.


Good point on black vs. white people, I was lucky to go to college in a city that had very affordable public golf, you could play all day at one of 4 public courses that allowed you to walk for $7 on weekdays and $8 on weekends. This was in the mid 1980's but still those courses today are around 18-20 I believe. My family was not rich, but not poor, more of a very in debt middle class family, my fathers family were farmers and the small farming business went to hell during this time. My father was then a school teacher and did not make much at all, while my mother worked part time. No one played golf in our family when I was growing up, I picked up the game when I was 19 and was able to practice by going home and shagging balls on our farm land. My point is I never stepped foot on a country club until a family friend took me when I was over 20 years old, so while golf is perceived as a rich country club sport not everyone here is a victim. America is still the land of opportunity and so is most of the rest of the free world if you have the drive and desire to make it happen.

My point is if I would have grown up in Chicago or NY instead of Wichita I may have never played golf, is that the end of the world? no, I love the game and I am glad I am lucky enough to be able to enjoy it, my point is maybe I would love tennis or handball as much as I love golf now. If you want to play the prestigious CC's then you had better have the drive to earn the income needed, and develop the connections, if this is truly your goal.

Well said

Ah, good to know about Augusta National. I know they get static for something or another. Must have been the womens issue vs. a race issue.

BTW: HeadonaStick said it very well. This is not only a great post, but a philosophy that this country needs to adopt if we have any hope of once again achieving the greatness of our past.

Excellent post and excellent point in bold!

How about we QUIT being politically correct and say he is an AMERICAN ! It's the fact that everyone keeps saying"African-American" "or whatever, that perpetuates the racial problem. If you are here in the USA and a citizen, you are AMERICAN,period! And that would be the end of ALL arguments.

+1 I couldn't agree more, nor could i have said it better.

I dont understand why he owes anything to anyone but himself. He sponsors many inner city golf organizations/clinics/etc - thats not enough? Golf, for 99% is merit based. Yes there are a few sponsors exemptions, but If you dont play well you arent going to make it to the top or stay there. People play on the mini tours for a reason, they dont have the talent or mental toughness that is required on the pga or nationwide tours. If they are good enough they will earn exemptions from their mini tours to certain pga/nationwide events and they can work their way up or they can do Q school. But if they cant succeed in one of those ways, they dont deserve to be there.

Everyone wants something for nothing now - Im calling espn today to schedule an interview about how Phil Mickelson hasnt done enough to help me get from a 3 handicap to the tour, my friend from fiji is already on board to talk about vijay - GET REAL - you want something, go out and earn it - very simple

I as well agree 100% with Headonastick's post. The notion that because someone is far more successful in the same endeavor that 'I" reside in and therefore owes "me" anything is just ludicrous and frankly, quite tiresome. While there certainly are mitigating circumstances in some cases, you owe your lot in life to non other than yourself. Success hinges solely on the type of work you put forth. Why is so hard for people to understand this most basic of concepts?

Like him or not, Tiger Woods got to where he is in life through a tireless work ethic and an immense desire to succeed. Nobody handed him anything- at the very least these traits should be recognized and commended. Perhaps these guys doing all the b*tch*ng should take a page out of his play book and give it a whirl...

It sounds like nothing more than someone who hasn't achieved what he wanted to achieve in life trying to pass the buck and make excuses for himself and his lack of talent or effort.

There are no race issues in the statements that have been reproduced. What there appears to be is some decidedly mardy bellyaching and a bit of deliberate boat-rocking by someone with a perceived chip on his shoulder. Socio-economic issues aside, there's absolutely no connection between a wannabe professional golfer from an ethnic minority not achieving what he hoped he would in the game and a supposed lack of soundbites by the world's best player who also happens to be a visible ethnic minority individual.

No wonder the quoted player hasn't achieved much. It sounds like he's more adept at coming up with excuses for himself and his play rather than putting his effort into going out and shooting the best scores he can on the golf course.

I agree, but tell the Census Bureau That

I thought it was funny that Eddie Payton was saying that Tiger should do more but yet a number of the golfers on his team are white.

Does that make any sense?

I agree, but people want to play the race card if they think some how they will benefit from it

because they know nobody will stand up to them on it. Playing the race card/gender card/socioeconomic card is a classic example of somebody saying that they didn't work hard enough to get what they wanted in life.

This entitlement generation is pissing me off tremendously, and guess what...I'm a senior in college. I can't stand people who think the government needs to provide them with a house/car/food/etc. I'm sorry, if you don't work to get stuff you want/need, then tough luck.

I am by no means a Eldrick fanboy, but he doesn't owe anybody anything. He worked his a** off, and because of that, he is a multi-millionaire. He does not need to coddle every minority golfer, and get their tour card for them. That's not his job. At some point, everybody needs to learn that the world is not made out of rainbows and unicorns, and that stuff isn't handed to you for free. The world does not owe these whiny golfers a damn thing.

So Payton is crying that the best golfer in the world isn't helping out African American golfers while he is bringing white kids to a (pretty much) all black college in order to stroke his own ego and win conference titles? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, literally. Maybe if he fielded a team of the best black golfers he could find and spent a ton of time training them, one or two might actually make some noise.

He's only quarter Black, quarter Chinese, quarter Thai, eighth Dutch and eighth Native American.

Highergr0und, you exhibit too much common sense for your own good.

Maybe they could let a few of his players participate on the PGA tour, after all it would be more fair. If they don't make the cut they could pay their expenses and give them a participation medal. I mean if Michelle Wie can do it why can't these poor unfortunate people?

My sarcasm meter may be broken, but are you suggesting that the PGA Tour turn into 4 year old girls soccer? Sorry buddy, but this is real life. Like Lerner said, if you put down a 65, nobody is going to stop you.

Seems to be very broken

I'll get it recalibrated then.

i am sorry, I should have added that we could take them all out for ice cream afterwards.

My fault, I didn't read your first post in the thread because it was damn near novel length!

However, my opinion still stands for anybody who thinks that more blacks, asians, hispanics, etc. should be give a free entry to tournaments just because they are a minority.

If I remember correctly Tim O'neal was sponsored by Michael Jordan and he took care of his expenses. Tim was very good but just didn't get the job done when it mattered. He was consistently top 60 on the Nationwide Tour and should have made it through Q school more than once. Crap happens take your lumps and move on. Nobody in this world owes you anything. Go out and work for it and get it yourself.

I thought it was Wil Smith? (could be wrong)

Amen Brother...... Well said!

I don't think it matters. Point is that he got the sponsorship BECAUSE he was an African American. Not saying he didn't deserve it because he is/was a hell of a player but if he were white I doubt they would have even considered it.

"Standard ESPN inflammatory hack journalism article"

BINGO!

I became a Rich Lerner fan! Rich did a great job defending the values that make golf the best sport ever invented

Tiger is black. Every person on this board knows it. Example- If tiger got a scholarship for African Americans - Do you think he would not accept it because he is not 100% black. 95% of the blacks in america ARE NOT 100% black anyway. I do agree however he does not owe these two anything but he did state that he wanted to make the PGA Tour look like America. If that is the case sponser some young minorities. They dont have to be black.

Tiger is 50% asian and 25% black so he would not qualify imho. He is a majority of asian decent therefore if you had to call him something it wouldn't be african american.