Settle what? And settle it how? Are you threating to kick my a** because I called you a poser and explained why and you had nothing of logic to say to the contrary? Get over yourself sir, I suggest some deep breaths.

and it is your right to do so! if you like it that's all that matters and why anyone gets their knickers in a twist over something like this is beyond me (and getting nasty about it makes it even worse).

i'm glad you like your equipment...ignore those who are nasty as they aren't worth your time.

Nobody is trying to take away his rights. That is a straw man argument.

Are you against courses having dress codes? You must be because they actually are taking away peoples rights to play and if somebody likes wearing jean shorts and a tanktop then that should be all that matters.

what does that have to do with anything? since when is a pink polo shirt not part of a dress code? is having a collar up or wearing a white belt against a course dress code? is wearing a visor against a course dress code? and please do not tell me what i "must be" because at best your argument is specious and at worst ignorant.

my apologies in advance for sounding harsh, but what's the big deal about what MBA wants to do? i'm just the opposite. i'm unobtrusive in my style of dress and my clubs (sans irons) have generic head covers and i tote a plain old sun mountain. but MBA shouldn't be criticized or called names (poser) for what he chooses for himself.

anyway, i find it annoying when some people presume to know what is best for another when they have no business interfering in that person's life, especially for something as mundane and prosaic as golf equipment and/or attire.

Are you seriously not smart enough to follow the very clear logic I layed out there or do you just not want to? It could be both but I'm pretty sure the latter is a major factor since you didn't hold yourself accountable at all for wrongly saying I was trying to take peoples rights away.

So.....if you are against people's rights to wear certain clothing on the golf course being taken away (which I wasn't even doing).........then........you would be against dress codes because that is exactly what they do, they prevent people from playing golf if they are not dressed a certain way.......are you following along now? No, dress codes don't prevent people from wearing the exact same outfit JMBA wears (which I'm sure is quite a curveball for you) but...they prevent wearing jeans and that is an outfit that a lot of people like to wear and according your exact words "if they like it then that's all that matters"........so they should be able to play in jeans then with that logic. Are you able to follow along this time?

Not to get this back on topic or anything, but yesterday I was playing my second favorite area course and had a weird thing happen that kind of annoyed me.

I was walking as a single behind a foursome, and the foursome was playing fairly quickly. A single in a cart came up behind me at the first tee, so I invited him to come up and join me. We had a few waits on the front nine, but it wasn't too bad. I did not feel like I was slowing the other single's play down at all since he would just drive out to his ball and stand there for a minute to wait for the group in front and I was playing pretty well.

When we got to the turn, the foursome in front was in the clubhouse, so I hopped a ride with the guy I was playing with to the tenth tee, which is a long way from the ninth green. We get to ten tee, tee off, he drives off just as the foursome behind is coming up. My ball is in the fairway, my playing partner's ball is in the right rough. I hit my second just right of the green, he hits his third (having hacked his second) onto the green. I walk up to my ball, and as I'm standing there over my second he putts out, says, "I'm going to play through," and takes off. Of course, I wind up waiting for him to putt out on the next hole (a par three) but then never see him again.

Granted, the course was open in front of us, but there was no way I was holding this guy up more than about a minute a hole by walking. He just seemed really annoyed that I was walking. I wound up finishing my round in 4 hours, so it's not like my pace of play was super slow, and I played a bit slower on the back since I had a hole in front and a hole behind that were open.

Anyway, it just seemed really discourteous to take off like that. I don't like slow play, but I find people who rush almost as annoying.

You typed a handful there! I'm in total agreement. I'm not a slow player, but it's not a race to the parking lot, either.

If I'm playing golf, I'm more appreciative of being away from whatever else is going on, as opposed to rushing through something that I'm supposed to be enjoying.

At my old club, one morning I'm playing with one of our older members. Absolutely fantastic guy, but his back was fused 20 years earlier, so he's not the best of players. Anyway these two guys get paired up with us. I had heard their names, as they would play in the groups with the better players I knew. Fair enough.

Anyway, I'm having a rough day, the older guy is playing like he can, and these two seem to think they're on Tour or something, start just talking to themselves and essentially ignoring us. OK. We get to teh 10th tee, which was not very far from the range. They see someone they know on the range(who ironically enough is a very good friend of mine-but he had no idea what was going on, I don't blame him for anything), and start talking to him, asking him if he's playing.

They then proceed to tell us they are dropping back and playing the back nine with him. It all kind of happened so fast that once we were in the fairway, I asked the older fellow if I was wrong, or if what they just did wasn't a little rude. In his thick Italian accent, which I can still hear to this day, "Pretty f(*kin' rude!" I never set foot on the same tee box as them again whenever I had control over it, and I was not shy about naming them whenever someone asked me how I liked the membership, have any problems with anyone. Nobody ever disagreed that what they did was terribly rude. Even their friends did not defend their behavior, which told me a lot.

Thankfully, they represent only a very small fraction of the membership at that club, and I really have yet to meet anyone else that is anywhere close to that. They may not lpay with me again after a round, but to drop back in the middle of a round....

Man, you are not kidding. I hate slow play as much as any retired caddy, but I hate speed-golf too. If you do not have enough time to play, DO NOT PLAY.

Count me in on that as well. Slow play can bother me if it's for stupid reasons, like not being ready to hit, talking on a cell phone, taking 10 minutes to look for a lost ball...etc. But Speed Golf absolutely ticks me off.

In my opinion only, there is no reason to rush through holes unless you are out of place by more than a hole and holding things up.

A few years back me and a buddy were playing a round on a pretty deserted course on a rather unusually nice January Day. We wanted to enjoy the round and the day. We did for 9 holes, nobody behind us or in front. We played it in less than 2 hours but didnt' rush.

So on the 10th tee a man comes up and says he's joing us for the back nine. Now he's walking and we are in a cart and it is cart path only. The 10th hole was fine, but halfway through the 11th we can tell he's playing at a fast clip. For 3 holes we had to pretty much run from the cart to the ball and back in order to keep up his pace. He had told us he's from Scotland and doesn't like to "dwaddle". That's fine. We offered for him to go ahead if we were holding him up on like the 13th hole. He said no he enjoyed the company. By the 15th hole I was exhausted, but determined that I was going to control the pace and we both slowed back down. We said either he'll wait for us or he won't, either way is fine.

He kind of slowed to our pace. When we got in I noticed we had played the back nine in an hour and half. I thought "No wonder I'm out of breath"

We had beers with him in the pub afterward and enjoyed his stories about Scotland emmensley, just a gem of a guy. He inivited us back to join him any time, he said he liked playing with players that weren't slow. We laughed about it all the way home.

I don't really see what the problem is here. The 2 guys you got paired up with left your group to play with another single they knew? That doesn't seem too bad. At least they didnt skip you and go in front of you. I don't see anything wrong with leaving your group to play with another buddy they saw at the turn

your condescension is beneath you. but, to answer your question your logic is as clear as a pool of muddy water. you were discussing "posers" and what they wear or what type of equipment they have, which is what i was addressing. you are the one that brought up dress codes.

as far as dress goes, people should adhere to the rules of the club. period. MBA does so in all respects so your argument is fallacious. there are only three things i care about with regard to other players, 1) pace of play, 2) repairing divots, and 3) repairing pitch marks.

My condescension is beneath me....uh that doesn't make any sense, unless you are saying I am such a good person that I am above being condescending. Which also wouldn't really make sense.

You are missing the point and are unaware that you're lacking logic. People should adhere the rules of the club, period?? That's funny because in the post before you said these exact words "if they like it then that's all that matters." But now what you said is "all that matters" suddenly doesn't matter at all and it's what the club says that matters the most. So which is it? You can't have it both ways, make up your mind.

And what would happen if a club had a "no poser gear allowed" dress code? Would you not have a problem with that because people should adhere to the club's rules period, or would you not like that rule? So you've got quite an inconsistency on your hands here. But good vocabulary word usage there Mike Tyson..."fallacious"....you couldn't have just said false or wrong you had to bring out the big guns huh, lol.

Had it been the first tee, and they saw him, I wouldn't have had an issue with it. But playing nine holes, and then walking to the the 10th tee, seeing him on the range, and asking him to come out with them....sorry, where I come from, you finish the round or walk off the course with the group you started with. You don't ever have to tee it up with those people again, but you don't just go to another group, and you especially don't recruit someone else so you can leave the group you're paired with. Remember to, this was at a semi-private club that was working towards going private. 95% of the play was membership play. Everyone was a member. This wasn't a public course where random strangers got paired up...not that it would have made things any better, but the fact everyone are members of the same club just added to it IMHO.

Must be a cultural thing. I've never seen in Canada guys putt out and hop in their cart and go to the next tee while the other guys are still on the green, yet I've seen it 3 times in the 25 rounds I have played in the US. My friend who was there said he has seen it several times in the US. Same with the situation above. Of all the people whom I've ever told the story to, you're the first one who didn't think there was anything wrong with it.
(Of course, I'm assuming you're from the US.)

That would qualify as rude where I come from.

If I'm the single that's just seen some friends, I may well stop and have a brief chat with the people I knew or even arrange to play with them afterwards, but to essentially say 'these lads are far more interesting /better company than you are - so I'm off...' to someone you're already on the course with is very rude and inconsiderate in my book.

I wouldn't do it even if Brittany Lincicome was looking for a game, and if someone I was playing with did slope off in mid-round I'd have no qualms about describing them in less than flattering terms afterwards. I know I'm a boring sod but if I've arranged to pair up with you, through whatever circumstances, do me the honour of putting up with me going on about how I used to be a lot better, used to be a decent putter, telling you all about my ex-wife and all the other twaddle I come out with during a typical round of golf. Manners maketh the man - and they also mean that you're trapped until the end of the round. And it's the same for me when I end up with one of the old stagers at my place.

if someone wants to "pose" who cares? and no club would have a rule against "posing" or their membership would plummet. lol.

it's happened to me a time or two and usually doesn't bother me, but the individual doing it has always looked very sheepish and embarrassed. i've done it once, but it was on the first tee and i was a single paired up with a three some and a good friend came up to the first tee and was going to be playing alone so i joined him. the three some didn't seem to mind and my friend was happy not to have to play behind a foursome.

.......

I personally dont think it is all that rude either, and would in no way be offended if someone wanted to fall back because they saw someone they knew. I wouldnt do it in most cases, because I enjoy meeting and playing with new people, but not everyone does. The only time I would ever do something like that is if I had seen an old friend that I never get to play with, or havent seen in a long time. I wouldnt be rude about it, and would explain myself as to why I was doing it. If the remainder of the group doesnt like it, that's their issue, not mine. If I saw someone I regularly play with, I would probably just have a quick chat between holes and get back to the group. I think the fact that they were ignoring the 2 of you was more rude than breaking off to join their friend, and at that point, I would welcome the loss of their company.

Not sure if this was said.

I have a range finder and I always "ding" the yardage for all the players in my group to speed things up and to be "fair". What I hate is when I get the yardage for a player, tell him the yardage but he proceeds to pace off the yardage anyway.....

I'd annoy you then. I do my own yardages and, in a similar vein, when a passenger in my car says 'you're alright' at a junction, I still look for myself anyway. In my defence, I don't hang around and I can usually sort out my yardage whilst someone else is busy doing theirs.

I think it's circumstance and, in his case more personal since it's a private club where members have a more personal relationship with each other than municipal/public environment.

being grouped or having someone join me is no problem and if they choose to ignore me throughout some holes, then leave, I wouldn't care a bit and just shrug it off no matter how rude it was. and if they were nice and chatting with me, then saw some friends and ask me poliety if I was ok that they go play with their buddies, I would shake their hands and follow by, "sure, no prob, fellows, it was nice meeting you !"

I do admit when I go out solo and want to brush up on my game I get paired up and I just get fking pissed but live with it and enjoy the rest of the round.

I'll amend my earlier post by saying that it sounds very much as though the partners in question (in the original disappearing partners post) were a bit insular from the start by the sounds of it. If that's going to be the case (and I put myself in this bracket when I play alone early or late in the evening, or when a friend and I are having a match with a bit of a wager going) I simply state at the outset what the situation is to the other party. It may sound a bit ignorant - albeit I hope it won't if I take the time to explain myself properly - but I'd rather be up front that I'm out to practice alone or that there's a game on than say 'yes. By all means join me/us' and then have someone feeling uncomfortable for the rest of the round.

One thing I certainly wouldn't do - or expect - is for a golfer to ignore a playing partner and then do one when he sees someone else. The danger is that someone could have their nose put out of joint whether or not the circumstances necessarily warrant it. Similarly, if I accept an invitation to join a group or, conversely, extend an invitation, the golfer that's joining would never, and should never, feel that they were being ignored and/or a hindrance. If that's going to be the case, speak up beforehand.

In the case of an ad hoc playing partner catching a glimpse of an old mate who they hadn't seen for ten years and who once pulled them out of burning car; fair play. I can accept they may want to shoot off with little notice. Honestly though, how often does that happen versus it being a case of 'that's my mate and he's got a new Taylor Made driver I want to have a knock with. Thanks for the game mister...'? The latter example, at my place, would definitely have you being marked down in the 'naughty book' - which as someone above pointed out, is something that's alive and well at private clubs and particularly at old-fashioned, traditional places like mine. I swear that our Captain probably has a leather bound one that he peruses on a regular basis so that he's got a healthy number of members to chastise on slow days. I try to avoid ending up the pages if I can help it.

Incidentally, an example of comedic pairing-up happenings happened to me one evening last summer on a near-deserted course. A rather confident chap at my place, whom I'd never met previously, approached me on the 14th tee and informed me that he was going to join me - going as far as to peg up a ball before I could get a word in edgewise. I didn't have the chance to tell him that I was having a swift nine for practice and that two of my dogs, German Shepherds the pair and both out of sight in the bushes, were with me. He had obviously missed the leads clipped to my bag. He cracked one away and then, after I'd hit mine and thought 'sod it. He's welcome to join up if he likes and he hasn't given me a chance to get a word in anyway' the two hounds I'd got with me wandered casually into view as he blathered on about something or other. After initially nearly having a funny turn he was amazed and a bit perturbed to learn that they were my companions for the night. Both pottered along with us harmlessly enough and my new friend lasted two holes, during which time it was hilarious to see him addressing the ball with both eyes tentatively looking back over his right shoulder at my hounds who sat obediently behind us as we played. Both are well-trained and very used to being on the course, but my new friend couldn't hit the ball for toffee, so bothered was he by the canine gallery. Some will no doubt say that it's outrageous to have dogs on a golf course but at my place there are at least half a dozen members who can be spied in a morning or evening with the customary black or chocolate Lab in tow. If nothing else, it's an example of one of those times where it's better to come clean at the outset to a potential partner.

Please stop feeding the trolls.

My biggest pet peeve is people who are in such a hurry to get through a round of golf. Enjoy the game and the weather while you're out there, don't be in such a hurry for it to be over!

Interesting topic.

I won't bother going into detail about the things I don't like, as they're the same as everyone else (slow play, not fixing up pitch marks, divots etc).

Thought I'd add some positive comments about the things I love in terms of etiquette.

As background, I play with the same group of fellas all the time and we're all around the same handicap level. We know each other so well that I'd describe the way we play together as "seamless", ie we know how to speed things up, help out without having to be asked etc.

Some examples:

Saying "play well" to each other on the first tee. We never say "good luck" as we like to think that we shouldn't have to rely on luck to have a good game.

Also on the first tee, everyone says what brand and number ball they're playing to avoid double-ups.

Let's say I blade one out of the bunker and it goes over the other side of the green. Everyone else is on the green and marked already, so one of my playing partners offers to rake the bunker for me while I go and play my next shot. Great way to save time.

When putting, you having the awareness to ask me straight away if I'd like you to move your marker when it's close to my line.

Picking up divots and throwing them back to the player who's just hit.

Everyone watches every tee shot and keeps a precise mental note of where the ball goes if it disappears into the bushes.

When looking for a ball, the guy whose ball is closest helps out with the search, while the other guys play on and then come to help search afterwards if we haven't found it already. Then moving on quickly if we don't find it right away.

First in the hole takes the flagstick.

Repairing pitch marks - yours, mine, theirs, everyone's!

Offering to stand behind and watch my ball when teeing off into the sun (we never have a problem with each other standing behind as long as you're far enough back to be out of peripheral vision).

Similarly, when I'm hitting a blind shot (eg over the corner of a dogleg) and without having to be asked, you walk over to a spot where you can see around the corner so you can watch where my ball goes.

Knowing what constitutes a good shot, bad shot, lucky shot / bad shot with good result and reacting appropriately.

Offering quiet encouragement to a player when they're scoring really well, but not saying too much as to distract them or get them out of their zone.

Keeping quiet when somebody has a little temper tantrum, but then having a laugh with each other about it on the next tee. Helps the player get over it and move on.

No unsolicited advice or tips, however if one of us is struggling and asks for help, we know each other's swings so well that we know what to say when asked.

A little bit of ribbing is okay, but nothing sarcastic or cruel.

Plenty of chat when we're walking down the fairway, but silence once the pre-shot routine has begun.

Genuine congratulations when somebody has had a great round - and friendly encouragement if a player has had a rough day.

A couple of nice cold beers in the clubhouse afterwards!

Ok...after reading this thread I guess I need a ruling. I have several staff bags (with my name) from back in the days when I was a pro and could actually shoot in the 60's. Those days are now long gone (I'm lucky if I play to a 3). Now, I go back and forth between my stand bag and a staff bag. I chose the staff bag when traveling (for better club protection) or when it looks like it might rain, and obviously use the stand bag when walking or going out to practice.

So, when I pull out one of the old staff bags is that cool or not. Just curious.

Other than a few DB's on this board, nobody really cares what kind of bag you have. Use what you want and enjoy the game. If you are a 3 cap, you can beat 95% of folks at any golf course so why would you care what they think?
The only time a staff bag is not appropriate is when you are using a caddy. At my club,the caddies have a bunch of carry bags in the bag room which they will use in place of your bag.

You get an exemption from me since you had good reason to have your name on there when you were playing as a professional.

I cant stand people who are really LOUD on the course.

For instance im at the range of my local muni course just hitting a practice bag and i can hear the 4some on the 9th fairway as clear as if they were talking next to me...peoples voices echo so much on the course if they are loud and I HATE IT

key word here is you WERE a pro. I think the consensus is that considering people who purchase big bags for no other reason than to mimic what they are not, considering most of us don't need a staff bag since we don't do pro and don't need the extra room for what we use only on weekends, it's a pet peeve for some people.

personally I don't give a sh** what people use.

The course snob guys have been annoying me lately. The guys who would have you believe they won't play any course below a $50 green fee, but yet it'd be a good day for them if they broke 100.

I spoke of such early in this thread. holy sh*t! it's worse when they are on the green close to the tee box hoot and hollering and joking. it's not just cheering for an allotted time frame because of a good putt but the loud joking and laughing just continues while they are on the green.

I agree.




People behave this way for two reasons, they are inconsiderately selfish and/or they are seeking self promotional attention.

Staff Bags - WTF is all the grief about what bag you use. I have a carry bag as I like to walk the course but if you want a huge big staff bag with your name on it go for it. No skin off my nose and it should not bother other golfers either. If it does I would possibly suggest you are paying too much attention to others and not your own game etc.

Slow (and overly fast) play - this is my biggest bug bear BUT I do diagress with some posters comments that 'if you have lost sight of the group in front and the group behind is close, let them through'. The group in front and behind could be speed merchants and why should a few groups dictate the pace of play for the entire course. We play 18 holes as a threesum in about 3.5 hours which I think is a reasonable pace and hate it when we got a group behind playing speed golf that are obviously trying to get past us when there is no space ahead.

The staff bag issue, for me, is a historical one since, when I was growing up, the EGU and R&A frowned on the use of personalised embroidery on large (or any) bags - even in the case of leading or high level amateurs - since, in the case of an amateur player, it was unnecessary and alluded to the player hinting at professional status and/or sponsorship which wasn't allowed at that time. I'm old-fashioned, so it's an ethos that's stuck.

As for staff bags themselves, I own several and use one occasionally when the circumstances warrant it. It's convenient and, albeit I occasionally feel a bit self-conscious, I'm not so bothered that I'm not going to use it. Do I have my name on it in big letters? No. It would, in my view, be pretentious to do that since I'm not a professional. And when I see other people with their name on a bag, that's what I automatically assume to be the case. When they turn out not to be pros, I question their reasoning and make the assumption that the name's a bit of a vanity thing.

Am I always correct in my assumption? Not always. Does it bother me when I see a hack with an embroidered bag? Not really. Certainly not compared to other things that actually do bother me, or directly affect me, like slow play and people not shouting 'Fore!' anyway. Do I have the right to have a quick smile to myself when I see a bloke chopping it round with a big bag with his name on it and a full ensemble of top-tier kit? Absolutely. Just as much right as the person with the bag has to put his name all over it for whatever reason and to buy a sparkling set of irons every fortnight. It's his money. And it's my train of thought. We're both entitled to do what we like with them respectively.

Anyone who carps on about how they don't make assumptions, every day, based on what they see in their lives is lying. And a lot of people seem to have a skewed idea of what constitutes 'being bothered' by something. There's big difference between someone causing me to take five hours to get around a golf course or hitting me in the face with an errant shot because he thought shouting a warning was unfashionable or beneath him and me having a tongue-in-cheek private laugh to myself because someone turns up who makes Elton John look shy and retiring.

I agree exactly with with mat562.

People mistakenly claim it's a big deal to be bothered by it, but I'm not that bothered by it, I'm just making fun of something pretentious. They might as well have a Claret Jug they carry around out there pretending and implying that they are not only a pro but a British Open champion, maybe they could hang a green jacket on their bag too. But don't judge......yeah.

Peeves:

Lack of respect for tradition
Other people talking to my golf ball....please keep your mouth off of my balls

Oh yeah, golf sandals..b**** please!

Not to keep moving this whole thread into off-topicville, but isn't this kind of the exact sort of thing that civilized people should try to avoid? If I see someone wearing a Nike polo who is a little soggy in the midsection, should I assume they're a huge poser because they're "obviously" trying to emulate pro athletes who advertize the brand? And not to make a ham-fisted analogy, but how is this any different from seeing any outward fact about someone and ascribing intent to it - eg. assuming any female playing is automatically bad?

It seems like this kind of arbitrary judgementalism is what keeps new demographics from trying the game or staying in it. I've never been in any other activity where there are so many unwritten rules about what you can wear, what you can play with, and so on. Some are ettiquette - those are good, and usually serve a real purpose. Some are snobbery - and what bag/clubs/clothes a person buys falls pretty squarely in this category. To be honest, as a mid-20's golfer who's a member at a private club, I get enough of people looking down their nose at me just because I have the audacity not to have been born 15 years earlier.

I don't mean to accuse you specifically of any of this, mind you, just that I think the attitude of "Everyone has biases" isn't a justification for bias.

I'm 35 and lucky enough to be a member at private club where, even at my relatively advanced age, there are members who look down on me for being too young, and who feel that they have a God given right, despite the fact I'm their equal, to treat me in a particular way because they see themselves as supposedly being better than I am for one reason or another. That sort of overbearing idiot is a world apart from the person like me who may have a bit of a quiet and private laugh at the expense of someone who wears a certain outfit or has a certain bag.

I suppose it's my punishment for occasionally making those arbitrary assumptions about someone's golf ensemble but, since I'm a normal person and in common with everyone else on the planet, make judgements which may or may not be correct based on what I see every day, it looks like I'm stuck with it. Perhaps I could lie - and pretend that I don't make assumptions and stereotype every day of my life? It seems to be a fairly common lie to tell judging by the number of posts in this thread alone from people who rival saints and never make any negative assumptions or judgements as they go about their daily business. I suspect that what they actually mean when they claim never to stereotype is that they do indeed do so, but would never actually admit to doing it on an internet forum.

The rights and wrongs of it all aside; does me privately thinking 'what a poser' about a particular individual because of the way they're dressed cause anyone any real distress? Does it affect them one iota? No. When someone approaches a junior at the club and loudly and ostentatiously berates them in front of their cronies for some imaginary wrongdoing because they see themselves as being better than them because of age, income or perceived social standing, then that does have a tangible negative effect. That's the difference. One is harmless, the other isn't. We're both certainly in the wrong but only one of us is going to have an effect because of our actions.

The stuffed shirt brigade like our friend above drive far more people away from the game and from certain types of golf clubs than people like me who perhaps have a slight light-hearted chuckle at the person's expense without ever articulating it or making them aware of it. I know people who are genuinely uneasy about playing at my club because they see it as being unwelcoming thanks to the loudmouths and bigheads. None of them feel uneasy about turning up because someone may well be having a chuckle at their trousers without them realising it.

Unfamiliar people that youre paired with that talk to your ball... Saying 'good shot' when you know its not a good shot, you dont know my swing so keep your mouth off my ball!

You have to read the thread at least a little, this has been covered. First of all the judgements that I'm talking about aren't arbitrary at all. And you act like all judgements are arbitrary and therefore shouldn't be made. This is a typical problem, a fad, that at least America has been going through lately, this whole "don't judge" phenomenon. It shows a total lack of understanding of what judgements really are. Yes, there are bad judgements that don't make sense and those should be avoided. And yes it is also wrong to make an initial judgement and then be inflexibly unwilling to ever change it based on future events. But that doesn't make the concept of judging wrong in general. It just means that a focus should be put on the importance of making logical judgements and not being inflexible about them if future events prove them wrong.

The judgement I and others are making about someone who has a staff bag with their name on it is very logical and accurate. There is no reason to have your name on a staff bag unless you are a pro and people need to know who you are. Like if you are at a PGA tournament and you recognize a guy but can't remember his name, or I guess if you are getting a lesson with a pro and need to know which guy he is. If you are just some guy playing, nobody needs to know or cares who you are that doesn't already know you. You don't have any fans. So that is why it's so pretentious, because it's implying that they have fans and people need to know who they are. It's a childish fantasy really. Which you know, whatever, they have the right to be childish since they aren't hurting anybody, it's not a big deal, but please, let's not pretend that's not what it is.

However, I am not inflexible about whether I like the person based on this alone. If they childishly have a staff bag with their name on it for no reason but are a great non pretentious guy otherwise I won't dislike them at all. But let me tell you, out of the maybe 20 people I've run across who aren't pros and have the named staff bag a very solid 8 out of 10 of them have pretty serious ego problems. With some of them having truly unbelievable ego problems.

I've read the thread, and I've seen where you've said this, but I guess I don't buy it.

Assumptions are a necessary part of life where a judgement needs to be made about people, absent other information. And there are times when there is a normative social message that inheres in the nature of a particular way of dressing, talking, or being. If someone buys a Bentley, it's not out of line to assume they are doing so as an outward signal of wealth. This is why I don't see a particular problem with dress codes - it's not prohibitively exclusive to require that people own a polo shirt, especially if the requirement is explained up front.

But staff bags? First, I'd say that you're projecting your perception of what a staff bag "means" in a way that is not contextually universal, even within the limited world of country clubs and golf courses. This is just a point with no objectively right answer, but the rift between the "staff bags are fine" and the "staff bags are hubris" groups seems to be that the former thinks it's perfectly normal for someone to just like how they look and the latter thinks that it's an attempt to signal their opinion of their own golfing prowess.

Even when you say "There is no reason to have your name on a staff bag unless you are a pro and people need to know who you are." - really? There's no other reason to have your name on a bag? You don't have a bag tag? I daresay there are more people who just want their bag personalized than who are trying to pretend to be touring pros.

In the end, I know nobody is doing a bag check before people are allowed to join clubs - and it's really just going to result in a chuckle or a disapproving glance. But those subtle digs really do add up. And while I'll grant that sometimes judgements or assumptions are worthwhile, in this case the biggest count against it is that I think it's most often incorrect.

Having your name written in tiny letters on a little bag tag and having your name in huge letters on a huge staff bag are two very different things. You are really grasping at straws. And not to mention that bag tags are silly too, just way way less silly and prententious than a big lettered named staff bag. You have provided zero reasons why someone who is not a pro would need a staff bag with their name on it other than silly pretentiousness. And no I don't have a bag tag, what reason would I even have to do that? You sound like you would get tricked really easily by the pga tour partners club scam because of their awesome bag tag...

I guess it doesn't have to do with golfer ediquette so much, but it pissed me off nonetheless. I was playing in this junior tournament the other day, with just one other kid. We had just finished nine holes as a twosome in way under 2 hours. So I'm thinking we're going to cruise the rest of the way. BUt as we approach the 10th tee, we see these 4 guys jump on and start teein' it up. Immediately I make a b-line straight for the foursome, but the tournament director stops me before i can have at them. Turns one of the guys in the foursome was the owner of the course. The director tells me they'll be out of the way in no time. Of course I'm sceptical, and three hours later, I come into the club house and the owner comes up to me and says
"I hope we didn't hold you up or anything" then walks away
Are you kidding me? THis guys thought he was way better than us (trust me, i got a look at every one of his tee-shots, he wasn't).
I was about to lay into him when the tournament director came in and yelled at him for me.
I just can't believe the owner would do something as rude and inconsiterate as that.



So yea, that's my story of horrible golf etiquette

I guess it doesn't have to do with golfer ediquette so much, but it pissed me off nonetheless. I was playing in this junior tournament the other day, with just one other kid. We had just finished nine holes as a twosome in way under 2 hours. So I'm thinking we're going to cruise the rest of the way. BUt as we approach the 10th tee, we see these 4 guys jump on and start teein' it up. Immediately I make a b-line straight for the foursome, but the tournament director stops me before i can have at them. Turns one of the guys in the foursome was the owner of the course. The director tells me they'll be out of the way in no time. Of course I'm sceptical, and three hours later, I come into the club house and the owner comes up to me and says
"I hope we didn't hold you up or anything" then walks away
Are you kidding me? THis guys thought he was way better than us (trust me, i got a look at every one of his tee-shots, he wasn't).
I was about to lay into him when the tournament director came in and yelled at him for me.
I just can't believe the owner would do something as rude and inconsiterate as that.



So yea, that's my story of horrible golf etiquette

So, it never occurs to your sad, pathetic little mind that perhaps someone has their name on their bag for no reason other than they like the way it looks? Why do people stamp their initials on their clubs? Is that acceptable to you? I mean, if they are in your bag, you should know they are yours, so why would someone need to stamp their clubs? Is it because they are pretentious, or do they just like it? Is that OK with you?

+1.

he doesn't "get it" big red. no point in arguing with him. there is a good chance that most of us will never see the pga tour, and there are a few golfers who may want their names on their bags. most of us understand that it's no big deal, but there are some people get who their knickers all bunched up about it.

the club i belong to requires bag tags. but i will mention that a member of golf wrx finds bag tags pretentious (though not as "silly and pretentious" as staff bags), and i'm sure the committee will change the requirement.

Omg you're so stupid, we've been over this already. The question is WHY do they like the way it looks. And the answer is because they are pretentious and like to pretend they're a pro when they're not, which is exactly my point.




Yeah, I don't get it , continue telling yourself that lie not unlike people with named staff bags continue to tell themselves the lie that their bag is something other than childishly pretentious. I never said it was a "big deal" I am simply exlpaining that it's silly and pretentious.

I don't really care about whatever the club you belong to does, but if they require bag tags for storage purposes or because servants are instructed to take mr. so and so's bag and put it on a cart, like a lot of clubs do, then of course that is a valid reason for having one. But a lot of people get random bags tags from some course or tournament they played in and might even end up having 5 or 6 of them on there and that is pretty silly and pointless other than to say is "my name is dave smith and I played at some course somewhere isn't that impressive..." But that is really nothing compared to the named staff bags.

For the love of God, stop feeding the trolls!!!