If you have to ask...

So you have no reason and roll your eyes pretending you do then....is it a secret? Please enlighten me on what logic is involved there that makes it something other than a nonsense tradition.

Is there something I said you disagree with? If so what? I'm all ears.

Here's one that I think some of you may be guilty of.

Golfers who feel the need to tell you what they shoot. Either it was last week on the same course where they were 2 under after the front 9 or I am having a bad day and I usually can shoot even par.

But in reality, after playing 9 holes with you and they are closer to 90 than you are to par, I always have a dumbfounded look and just give them the "sure" look.

I'm not saying you can't shoot that score, but because you are having a bad round, why do you have to tell me what you usually shoot when I didn't even ask. It always somehow comes up in the conversation. I guess it makes them feel better. This has a good chance of happening if you are outplaying them on every hole.

Every time I have played with a real good golfer, they've never had to brag about what they shoot. I don't think you need to tell me your handicap because you are having a bad round.

Taking your cap off is a sign of respect. It's akin to taking your cap off when the national anthem is played. Anything that promotes respect these days should be encouraged; whether it be towards something extremely important like your country, or your flag, or towards something simpler like your fellow golf competitors, or the game of golf and its traditions.

This drives me crazy too. One time I got grouped with a guy who played like he had a plane to catch. As soon as everyone teed off he would sprint-walk up to his ball and just hit it. On the green he picked everything up inside 6-8 feet and then would stand next to the hole with the flag while the last player putted out (another thing that gets on my nerves...). Thankfully I don't run into this type that often.

We just messed with him by playing very deliberately once it was our turn to hit (although not wasting any time in between shots). It was great watching him twitch and fidget like he was about to scream. HAHA!

The fact that even with our purposely deliberate shot setup, we still finished 30 min under pace, just goes to show you that you can take your time with your shots and still get around fast if you don't screw around between shots. Those out there that play hurried are just ruining the game for themselves and others.

The question is why is it a sign of respect. What is the logic behind that?

Don't sweat it dude! Customary behavior is not always logical. IMO as long as you look 'em in the eye and offer a firm shake (no dead fish) you should be fine, you're not gonna offend any sane person. If you don't want to take off your hat for a handshake, then don't.

Hats off is about the same thing as elbows on the table or a right handed handshake....there's nothing wrong with elbows on the table or a left handed shake but you just have to accept that things mean certain things just because.

Oh and I usually take my glove off as well for a handshake, not sure why but I do...and it is usually ff since I putt without it but if it was on by anychance I take my glove off as well....and I'm right handed

The custom of shaking hands with the right hand has come down to us from the time when everyone carried a sword or knife. In those days when one met a stranger it was customary, as an indication of friendly intention, to hold out the right hand to show that it did not hold a sword or knife ready for attack.

Surprised I haven't seen these mentioned, but ...

NOT playing the ball as it lies and the course as you find it. I've got no problem taking relief where entitled, but there's no need to create a grass tee for your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shot.

NOT counting the extra stroke when you try backhanding that 3 foot putt into the hole and miss. If you feel like you can make it backhanded and opt to play it that way, it counts.

Taking a pencil whipping in a select shot tournament. Nothing like shooting a 9 under in your own group and thinking you're in decent shape, only to find out the group in front of you (who you've watched the whole day hack the ball all over the course) have decided to post 18 under as their score.

Yeah, those are pretty much my thoughts exactly. I think it's silly to respect traditions that no longer make sense. I'm pretty sure the hat thing comes from the 1930s and earlier when people used hats tipped forward to disguise there identity, which means they are up to no good, like Al Capone or somebody. I don't think that's too much of an issue on the golf course or indoors these days. We might as well be wearing wigs and ruffles on our shirts like George Washington or Mozart while we're weirdly respecting ancient nonsense traditions like that.

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The removal of one's hat goes all the way back to medevil times: Knights removed their helmets in the presence of those they felt were friends. Thus, the removal of your hat in the company of another at the end of a round serves the purpose of showing of mutual confidence and respect to the individual you are with.

aint it the truth, and then the people try and jet up to #10 and look at the group behind them like WTF lol

Removing a helmet in the presence of friends shows trust that the friend won't kill their unprotected head. Hats today don't protect the head and nobody's going to try to kill you with a head shot on the golf course or indoors these days. For the record I just want to say that I don't have a problem with someone doing and unnecessary old timey tradition. But I do have a problem with people acting like everybody should do it or else they're a bad person or some bs because that's just insane. We don't need to reenact medieval times or pretend we're living in colonial Williamsburg. I say how about just being a reasonable friendly person in general and then wearing your hat whenever you want.

Talking about bad etiquette seemed harmless, but now that we have gotten into people's golf bags and clothing I thought I'd throw this out there...

People who post to forums...soapbox preaching obviously
People who sit back and read froums without contributing...wallflowers!
People who are unfriendly...shows they are bad people
People who are friendly...shows they are trying to trick me
People with crappier equipment than I have...shows they don't care about the game
People with better equipment than I have...obviously showing off
People with different equipment than I have...ignorant about equipment
People who dress nice...transparent posers
People who dress sloppy...slobs
People taller than me...think they are so great
People shorter than me...always have a "little man's complex"
People fatter than me...proof they have no self discipline
People fitter than me...egocentric narccicists
People who wear hats!
What about those idiots that go bare headed?
Anybody older than me...they always think they are so wise!
Anyone younger than me...they always think they know it all
Anybody lighter or darker than I am

In fact, anyone different than I am in any way is really annoying to me.
But when one thinks about it, maybe I am just hate myself, too much....

Was listening to 2 guys talk about there round and one guy says "when I was getting ready to shoot my second shot on #3"


I LOL'D who uses that term shoot haha

You and I could hang.

Talking about bad etiquette seemed harmless, but now that we have gotten into people's golf bags and clothing I thought I'd throw this out there...

People who post to forums...soapbox preaching obviously.......ME AT WORK
People who sit back and read froums without contributing...wallflowers!.....ME AT NIGHT
People who are unfriendly...shows they are bad people......DEPENDS ON TOPIC
People who are friendly...shows they are trying to trick me.........DID IT WORK?
People with crappier equipment than I have...shows they don't care about the game......MY WOODS
People with better equipment than I have...obviously showing off.........MY IRONS
People with different equipment than I have...ignorant about equipment.......MY BAG
People who dress nice...transparent posers........MY SHOES
People who dress sloppy...slobs........MY SHORTS
People taller than me...think they are so great...........I'M 5'10"
People shorter than me...always have a "little man's complex"........BUT I CAN STILL DO EVERYTHING
People fatter than me...proof they have no self discipline.......MY GUT
People fitter than me...egocentric narccicists ........MY CHICKEN LEGS
People who wear hats!..........MY HAT IS TOUR ATHENTIC, IT DON'T COUNT
What about those idiots that go bare headed?............IT GETS HOT
Anybody older than me...they always think they are so wise!..............I'M ONLY 20
Anyone younger than me...they always think they know it all............STILL 20, AND YES......I DO!
Anybody lighter or darker than I am......GUILTY OF BOTH, AND IT STARTS RIGHT AROUND MY BICEP and NECK

In fact, anyone different than I am in any way is really annoying to me.
But when one thinks about it, maybe I am just hate myself, too much.... ...........TRUE

My little annoying remark I tend to make is "nice shot" even if it's a 100 yard slice. It bugs me when people talk when your in the tee box, they might get quiet when your getting ready to swing, but to me you should be quiet from the moment the person is in the box. People hitting when your still within reachable distance, nothing worse than when I see a ball rolling past me. There are a lot more but for the msot part, everything is good, just the occasional idiot.

Love these threads.

Talking to my ball drives me absolutely crazy. "Gotta go"; "Bite"; "Get Right"; "Nice Shot" - The ball talkers always have it wrong, and they are usually talking when I am really not happy with my shot.

Rushing. It has been mentioned a few time.

I actually I end up playing longer rounds with the rushers. I have a feeling that the rushers have aqcuired their rushing habit by taking so freaking long to find their ball on the right side of the fairway (hey, it's farther back). The only way they can get around in 5 hours is if they whack their 10 footers and kick their resulting 5 footers.

I also find that the rushers come up with elaborate one-time events that made their round last so long. Eg: "Well, we had to look for your ball on #3 because of all those leaves." "We let those guys play through and they took forever to putt out." "We didn't go off at 11:30, the pro kept talking to us and we missed our starting time by 20 minutes."

I might personally be a little high-strung, so when we get paired up with strangers, I will play ready golf on the tee box. If the other guy has honors, but he is out to "lunch" in his cart, or not paying attention, my ball is in the air. And I am not a guy who just steps up and hits it. I am talking about having 30 seconds of time when the dude's in a fog. Sometimes I feel a little bad about that, but I feel like that adds up.

I see a huge difference between taking one's time and hitting a better shot (25 seconds) and being in a fog for the same amount of time then quickly whacking it. The former ususually ends up in fewer strokers, the latter ends up in more strokes and more space-outs. Then the rusher needs to whack 3 putts real fast and then pick up the remaining tester.

The rushers seem to think the clock starts when they address the ball. I think the clock starts when you hit your previous shot. Then they tell you the grass is getting to long while you are over it!

I am especially amazed when one of these guys tells me he is a division manager or a he runs a company or something like that. How can people be so out of touch with their surroundings? They have to be this way professionally. There is nothing complex about following the flight of your golf ball! I mean it goes like this: swing, bad sound, slice, hits the 4th pine tree and fall down, walk to white ball on brown pine straw.

Some of these people would really not have survived the caveman days of human existence.

why does it bother people that some high 'cappers have staff bags? Maybe they WANT to be a better player/ . Maybe we want quality clubs

When one golfer says to another "That's one" after he/she sets up to the ball and knocks it off the tee. I HATE WHEN THEY SAY IT!

Because most people who have staff bags are posers, pretending they're big shot pga tour pros, it's pretentious. It's basically like dressing up like Batman and driving the Batmobile to Wendy's to get a cheeseburger. Being a better player has nothing to do with the bag size, haha (golf bag size). So if you have a staff bag just realize it's a little silly, that's all. Quality clubs are ok, I don't think people are bothered much by that. As long as the reason you got them is to help your game and not just strictly to brag about them.

that's not true at all. some people just think they look rad, because they do. i use a stand bag because i walk and take the friggin subway everywhere, so im not saying i would use one. but i remember when i was a teenager thinking they were the coolest thing ever and wishing i had one.

plus, back in the 80's my father had a stupendously gigantic leather monstrosity that, while it wasn't a staff bag, surely was as big and obnoxious as one (probably weighed twice as much as one too).

i dunno, as long as you aren't actually trying to trick people into thinking you're a pro, then how is it any different from wearing an official NHL jersey with tie down straps and all?

I agree, that joke got old back in 1875 in Scotland I think. Even said sarcastically the joke is a pretty stale. I am also annoyed by the guy who acts like he is making a really interesting and official proclamation by proudly saying "that's your best drive all day", like you're supposed to say thank you for making it official governor of golf. I also find it rather improper for a fellow playing companion to have his shadow in the line of my birdie putt while using his putter to make fallic gestures.

Right, as long as you aren't actually trying to trick people into thinking you're a pro. But most people who have staff bags are doing exactly that. They are hoping other people will think "wow, that guy has a staff bag, he must be a big deal." Are you telling me you haven't seen this phenomenon? I've seen a huge number of cases of this in many different parts of the country.

Also, you're example of your father in the 80s having a big non staff bag is irrelevant. Back in the 80s there were no stand bags. Every bag was big and heavy. Maybe in about 88 or 89 the first stand bags came out and few people had them. However, if he had a staff bag with his name on it and was not a pro then he would pretentious too.

you're not wrong, but i dont know if someone is trying to trick me or not as i dont worry about it or go up to them and ask them to show me their PGA card. i believe that it happens, of course, and i'm sure you've run into it. but for me, without proof, i just like to assume the best of people until they prove me wrong.

plus, i think my example about my father was not said well. i meant to get across that he would probably buy a staff bag right now if he felt like it and not be thinking anything other than "i like this bag". same goes for my example of when i was younger. i wouldn't have had any idea it was a problem, just like i didn't when i bought a Ron Hextall official Flyers jersey with tie down straps.

Hey it's possible that a guy with a staff bag just has it for non pretentious reasons, it's just not likely. I base this on being around I don't know a ballpark of 100 people with staff bags in 4 different states and about 87 of them were pretentious. You can assume people are unselfish flawless angels if that's what floats your boat but I'm just stating what is actually true. I have interacted with these people, I'm not guessing. I jokingly challenge you to go to a country club (or anywhere really), find a guy with a staff bag, play golf with him or just spend a little time with him, and try tell me he's not trying to be a big shot with his general demeanor. It would be tough.

With sports jerseys it's not as likely but there is a solid % of people wearing jerseys and watching or going to the game and acting like they are playing in the game and are in general a big deal, like maybe they might check in and play in the second half and you should be impressed by that hilarious possibility. Same thing. Wearing a jersey and not taking yourself seriously is a different thing. But what if a guy wore your Ron Hextall jersey, skates, a stick, puck, helmet, possibly a mouthpiece, and he was not kidding, he was just like "what I like hockey." Dress up pretend time tends to turn from fun and not serious to pretentious insanity really quick.

haha. that made me laugh out loud.

as for the rest, all i know is i come on this site and see dozens of threads dedicated to judging people from a distance, and i hate it. i dont think people are angels or flawless at all, quite the opposite. i think we are all supremely flawed pieces of crap and therefore, judge not lest he be judged (and i'm not even religious in the least bit!).

but again, i'm not arguing your experiences at all. what you're saying makes sense.

Yeah, I agree that people making uniformed, inexperienced and illogical judgements from a distance as if they know what they're talking about are annoying. But a judgement that is logical and based on experience I have zero problem with. Of course, if a person makes a judgement that is clearly proven incorrect they should quickly change their mind. I personally kind of enjoy being judged.

people who move their ball. i've seen a lot of players move their ball a few inches to a couple of feet giving them a better line or better lie. they also try to move it when no one is watching. it's also annoying when they say they scored par on that hole too.

yes, this annoys me. my friend will hit a crappy ball off the tee and replace it with a pro v for the rest of the hole...which doesn't bug me that much...the fact that he pretty much tees it up (in the rough), however, does bug me. and he moves his ball to perfect lies in bunkers and grounds his club before he hits, moving sand away directly behind the ball. none of this would bug me if he sucked but he's a pretty good player and we've grown up together competing against one another in a bunch of things so it tends to annoy me. i never say anything because i don't really care THAT much but it does irk me. probably more a character flaw on my own part than anything. ill work on it.

Me too...

Since I use blades and have a big Titleist staff bag with my name on it, I get looks all of the time. However, it also helps the cart girl remember my name, which is a plus.

But somehow, I can back up the kit with game...go figure. And no, I don't have a Tour card - NOWHERE close to it! I simply have fun with my disposable income, and I'll be damn if I let a "message board username" dictate to me what I 'should' be using for my own personal enjoyment while either practicing or playing golf.

The funny part about it is that only one person has really "stepped to me" about either my blades or my staff bag - and he did so with the intention of getting his own. I've played at many courses over the years with this setup, and I've yet to have someone with the balls to say something negative to my face about either my irons or my bag. Being a nice guy helps, but I guess that this simply represents another example of the message board world not reflecting the real world. The anonymity of the Internets...

I hate it when people don't watch where tee balls go, especially in the sun.

Not a lot bugs me on the course outside of slow play. I've gotten a lot better in the last few years because I've had to play packed public tracks, but it's still the fastest way to ruin a good round for me.

No it represents an example of people thinking the same thing about your pretentious named staff bag but not having any desire to talk to you and just thinking you're a poser without mentioning it. I might ask you if you were a pro or on tour as your named staff bag was in sight so you could awkwardly respond with something to the effect of "no I'm just a poser."

If you are not a pro or anything close to it how do your back up your "kit" "with game"?? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

For someone who claims they don't have a problem with being judged you sure do seem offended by being "damn" if you let a person on a message board influence what you do.

Do you also wear shirts with multiple sponsor logos on them? I bet that would impress the cart girls too.

I would LOVE to play golf with you. Where and when?

Not too much that others do can whip me into a wild tizzy on the golf course. However slow play by the group ahead of me will. You should always let someone play through if the group behind you is pushing you and no one is in front of you, even if you think you are playing at a "good" pace.

Too many people don't know how to play "ready golf" and all it takes is a few to ruin it for everyone else behind you. If you have honors and your not on the tee box and someone else is ready to hit, they should hit. Don't take 3 practice swings then duff your shot. Have your club ready before it's your turn. When your putting, figure out the line before it's your turn, so you can step up and putt. Don't spend minutes looking for a lost ball in the woods when there are people waiting behind you. Chances are you are going to have to take a drop and stroke anyway. If on a particular hole you are 2x par, consider picking up. If you are at 10 strokes, definitely pick up and move on. If you've lost sight of the group ahead of you and the group behind you is pushing you, please take a hint! Speed it up or let the others play through.

Nothing can ruin a round faster for everyone else on the course than waiting hole after hole for the slow group ahead.

USGA could also help by changing some of the rules for lost balls, stroke and distance penalties etc or anything that adds time to the game. There were some interesting posts on the masters.org website about how the game could be promoted and there were a lot of posts about suggestions on improving slow play and how to do it.

Golf courses could do a better job managing slower golfers. I once had a ranger tell me that it's always slow on league night. Sorry, but 2:45 - 3:00 hours for 9 should always be completely unacceptable and the guy should be fired.

I know, I'm preaching to the choir. End of rant.

Marshalls who don't... uh....marshall.

I agree with a lot of the stuff you guy are saying. I really hate it when people are talking to my shots, especially since I am struggling to find my swing right now.

I also hate playing with annoying people, even when they are your friends. I have a friend who absolutely drives me nuts to play with and I try to avoid him. During the last round we played together, I was trying to line up a birdie putt (which are few and far between) and he is standing over me talking about stacks of Golf Digests he has, that have lessons they have in them for us to practice. Keep in mind he never practices and I spend most of my free time doing something involving my game. He talks in peoples back swings and he takes a ridiculous amount of time to tee off, to just slice the ball or push it way right. He recently got some gps on his blackberry so he always runs over to tell me how far it is. Even though I say its fine, on one hole I was practicing my swing and I said I was about 126 out. This kid runs over and is like no its 125, that bothered me. I know hes trying to be nice, but please worry about your own game. Not only are you bothering me, but you are slowing us down by not going to your own ball.


I admit, I am guilty of these things sometimes, but I have learned a lot in the last year. I always apologize for making mistakes.
The other day I chipped onto the green and the guy who was furthest away started to practice his putt and then he his putt while I was walking to my ball to mark it. He hit my ball and kind of made a sarcastic remark and I felt bad, but he didn't even give me a chance to mark. I wasn't slow to get over to my ball, I dropped my clubs in the rough and walked over to my ball and he putted it. That annoyed me. I don't really feel too bad about this though because he should have given more than 20 seconds to get my ball.

What pisses me off is when people whine and moan about others who do absolutely no harm on the course (so I'm obviously not including things like hitting into the group in front, or playing brutally slow, moving your ball or grounding club in the sand if you plan on bragging about your score etc.), and then daring to call someone else pretentious.

Yes, saying ""that's one shot" or whatever off the tee is lame, no question about it, but it does absolutely no harm to anyone on the golf course. If you have a problem with sports cliches being spouted out after an exceptionally good or bad moment, then maybe you should avoid sports altogether, since they run rampant in pretty much every sport.

And some people clearly don't know what pretentious means. I can afford nice clubs, but I don't really have any huge interest in buying a heavy tour bag. That said, it's my prerogative to do so. Yes, there are posers out there, but what is the height of pretentious is people who walk around with their Titleist blades and Cameron putters, talking day-in, day-out about what $300 aftermarket shaft they just put on their new drivers to make them slightly more "workable", and then call out some guy who would rather spend said money on something fun and personalized like a staff bag.

IMO, if you've spent a good chunk of money on your bag, are not a pro yourself (and not even close to one), and you have a problem with people enjoying themselves and doing absolutely no harm to others, maybe you should be looking in the mirror to see the pinnacle of pretentious.

You're post is incoherent and I think it is you that doesn't know what pretentious means and are confusing it with the word hypocrite. You describe a situation where one guy is pretentious with his shaft and hypocritically calls out another guy who's pretentious with his bag. That doesn't change anything about the bag guy being pretentious that just means the shaft guy is a hypocrite. And you're all over the place in your attempt to make a point which was an illogical one anyway. Doing harm to others is irrelevant to whether somebody is pretentious. You imply that nobody should dislike anything that doesn't harm others yet you even slip up and say you have a problem with someone bragging about their score, that doesn't do any harm anymore than a poser with a staff bag. Nobody is saying these people should be put in jail, just that it's silly and pretty arrogant, or really the best word would be....pretentious.

pre⋅ten⋅tious Show Spelled Pronunciation [pri-ten-shuhs] Show IPA –adjective

1.full of pretense or pretension.
2.characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.
3.making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.

Making an exaggerated outward show that assumes dignity and importance....sounds like a staff bag with a name on it.

I second that

Who is he to blame guys for having a crazy club ho passion - play with what you want to play with, it's your handicap and not mine.

He's also the guy hating 50-60 years old business men driving Lambo's or Ferrrari's - because they are not race car drivers, but rich businessmen, who can't drive such a vehicle. Let people play the golf gear they want and drive the cars they like

Ugh...I KNEW the definition card would be played here. Yes, I mean pretentious, perhaps hypocritical as well, but definitely also pretentious. I know exactly what it means. There is more than one way to be exaggerated and showy, such as using strictly "player" calibre equipment. Furthermore, the characterization of dignity and importance etc. is generally shown through what one says, not what he or she necessarily carries. I'm simply implying that those who carry tour clubs and rag on those with a personal bag, while hypocritical, are also pretentious. I don't mean to bash everyone using Titleist equipment, but in the twelve years I've been playing golf, I have not met many people who carry Titleist blades in their bag and don't reek of self-importance.

By the way, if you want to pull the intellect card on me, learn grammar (I'm referring to your first sentence.)

Today I was on the range just finishing a small bucket. Pulled driver to hit about five balls. A guy steps into the range and stands behind me - I am the only person on the range. I can see him out of my peripheral vision as I hit my first drive - bit of a slice. He doesn't say anything, I don't look at him, hit another ball. A little better, still a bit of a cut. Definitely getting distracted by this presence hovering behind me. He steps forward and says, "This may not help you, but it looks like you're pulling your arms into your body on the downswing." I turned to him and just said, "Yeah, thanks." I wanted to break my driver over his face. Distract me, watch me swing the club twice and then offer me unsolicited swing advice? Get the f*** OUT OF HERE!

I left the range to go putt and a couple of minutes later I see him flailing at a few range balls with a loopy, hang-back, off-balance, unathletic jerk of a swing. I should have gone back and stood behind him and offered some choice comments of my own.

I may not be a great golfer (anything but) but the next guy who offers me unsolicited advice is going to get more than a curt "Yeah, thanks."

Watching you attempt to defend your lack of logic with a continued onslaught of rambling incoherence is entertaining.

Wow, chief, Did you have to bust out the thesaurus to come up with all those big words? My post does make sense. Why are you even ragging on me? I have an opinion, which is both valid and logical. Perhaps you are a textbook example of my initial criticism, or maybe you just want to stir things up. Either way, perhaps when/if you finish junior high school, you won't need a word for word dictionary definition to understand what something means.

By the way, I will acknowledge I am at fault for the alleged "grammar" mistake. I misread it, and I apologize for it. That said, piss off.

EDIT: I just realized that it WAS you who was calling out that MBA guy for having a staff bag, so I definitely believe now that you are a texbook example of my above criticism, since you need to defend your position with such desperation. I bet you're a 20-odd handicap all-Titleist-playing guy, aren't you?

Also, I really apologize to everyone else for jacking this thread. Thank you all for your patience; I'm done my rant.

I'm a scratch player and don't own any titleist equipment at all (don't even play the ball) but that's an interesting fantasy you're trying to convince yourself of in order to keep your other fantasy going where you pretend you've been making sense.

I'm with you there. It's one thing if you're a player who takes their time somewhat, but is using that time to do golf related stuff, and things related to the swing, pre-shot routine, etc. It's another if they're just sitting in the cart doing nothing but just chatting for a minute before they finally even get out to grab a club. ugh.