What would it be? Which rule to you seems so stupid, so out of place that if the PGA came up to you today and said "Joe Schmuckateli, we really value you as a player and a person and am granting you ONE rule change." Which would you choose?

Not sure what mine would be yet....I'll get back to you on that.

Fix any imperfection on green - ball marks, spike marks, anything you want........and you shouldn't need to hit from a divot in fairway. Those two are out dated and stupid.

Grounding your club in a hazard - It would be nice to know upon setting down the club if there was a rock 1/10 of an inch under the surface before hitting

definitely would like to see free drops from divots in fairways, i dont like that idea of hitting a 300+ yard drive down the center and having to hit from a divot. also i feel you should be able to tap down spike marks on the green.

- I agree, especially when you may damage your club because of those rocks or hazard

Divots and scorecards. Perfect drives down the middle shouldn't be punished; especially if some digger made a real deep one.

The idea that a guy can lose a tournement with 50,000 people on site, millions on tv who know the score, because he made an addition error seems stupid in todays age.

free do overs for bad shots that kill good rounds, i would like that implemented

Eliminate stroke & distance as a penalty for out of bounds shots...

Identify location of where ball went out of bounds and drop it just like a lateral hazard...One stroke penalty...

Let's keep the pace moving...

Ehh, maybe in everyday local play.. But on tour, it should still be stroke and distance.

If more people knew what a provisional ball was, the pace would stay fine!! Know the rules! Btw; its rule 27-2 a.




Anyways, mine would be.. In match play, if you win the hole, instead of HAVING to play first from the next tee, you have the option for other player/team to hit first. Because in match play isn't the point of having an advantage? Well if you make the other player/team hit first and they go OB, well advantage you.



BTW; The comment about scorecards.. The players do NOT have to add up the strokes. All they must do is simply write in the numbers and sign the card. (to my understanding) it is the sole job of the committee to add the scores, the only way to be DQ is if you have a 4 on your card, and the player really made a 5. (to my understand at least, and the way all tournaments i've ever played in have been)

I completely agree with the divots in fairway, ball marks, and spike marks comments. My addition would be to allow players to fix a bunker that is unraked and your ball is in a footprint. We don't always get to play on courses with caddies that make sure every bunker is raked and I think it is rediculous to have to play a shot out of some lazy Aholes foot print.

I think that having to hit out of a divot in the fairway is the worst rule in golf. However in regards to the bunkers,OB and grounding club in hazard,they have to stay,golf has to have penalties for bad shots. Hitting it long and deep down the fairway is not a bad shot!! Also you should be able to tap down spike marks,the green is not a penalty area. IMO Todd

Just to stir the pot a little and play devils advocate; for all you proponents of the divots in the fairway revision, please define divot. I think that's the problem, where do you draw the line? Is an old divot that is mostly grown back still a divot? It seem intuitive until you try to define it and start to think about how to enforce it.

Having to drop the ball when taking relief in a waterlogged bunker. You just know it will plug. You should be able to place it at the nearest point of relief and play from there.

I disagree with the penalty for signing a incorrect scorecard. If the guy keeping my scorecard screws it up, he should be penalized. That or just let each player keep his own scorecard...better yet, with all the marshals and whatnot walking the course, just have a neutral party keep both scorecards.

Sure, it is the player's duty to check the scorecard before signing it, but come on man, people make mistakes. I just think it's a silly rule.

I too agree with the fairway divots talk. You should definitely get a free drop if you come to rest in a fairway divot.

Irrelevant. In no other game does a player or team (that I can think of) have to keep score and assert that the score is correct at the end, or be disqualified.

With the computers, cameras, spotters, and officials all over the place, and with millions of dollars at stake each week, keeping score on paper is rediculous.

And even with the "keep score" rules, the fact that a player could walk away from the scoring table, for whatever stupid reason, and not be allowed to walk back and sign the scorecard is equally stupid (ala Michelle Wie).

Rule: sink putt on 18, game over- walk to locker room or collect trophy. Done. Anything else is having a rule for the rule's sake.

In amateur tournaments without all the volunteers and computers, different story. Especially with the size of a golf course and the number of participants. But in a pro tourny? C'mon. Silliness. Look at the PGA Tour web site with the stats, shot tracker, etc. We know the score almost before the player does!

Whats a waterlogged bunker? The rule book never uses the word waterlogged? I'm just kidding.. You mean casual water right? ha.

But anyway.. Rule 25-1 ii. (b) States, you may drop a ball outside a bunker with abnormal ground conditions under a one stroke penalty. Keeping the point between the ball and the flag you may go back as far as you like.


I wasn't saying you were wrong about the scorecard rule. I agree, its silly. All I'm saying is they aren't getting DQ for adding wrong, they just get DQ for signed a wrong card. There math skills don't really come into play. But again, a lot of rules are silly.

It's interesting that so many people want to take bad breaks out of the game. What ever happened to rub of the green? I don't see any suggestions for relief from good breaks...

The divot one in the fairway is definitely the rule to change however the only way i can see it being done is just to have placing on all the time. If distinguishing between divot and not divot is going to cause issues just say if you hit it in the fairway you can place it within a foot regardless.

stroke and distance

Well as far as hazards (speaking of water hazards, not sand traps), playing from the hazard is already a penalty. You are in an often unkept and rugged area, usually full of rocks, tall grass, akward stances, and little chance. To preserve the club and potentially ones health, grounding would be to allow them to prevent an unfortunate situation.

But I understand, and I think every response has at least a few people who do not like it. I for one am not a huge fan of dropping from a divot - one of golfs oldest traditions and rules is playing the ball as it lies - now granted some hackers are to lazy to replace their divots and you get stuck in their mess, but thats golf - not just skill but also luck

Stroke and distance what? Ha. There has to be at least 12 rules that you may continue under stroke and distance, are you saying that stoke and distance just shouldn't be an option?

The idea behind not grounding in a hazard (any kind of hazard) is that you may be able to get an idea of how the club with react to the ball. No offense, but golf clubs aren't some sort of fancy pen.. If they get banged up, they get banged up. I've seen people play balls off cart paths because the nearest point of relief was horrible. Of course you just make sure you catch that ball thin! ha.

Stroke and distance for OB! You can hit it 300 yards, 1" OB and you're penalized more so than if you whiff! Seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.

Yeah mine would definitely have to be dropping from a divot. Either that or not being able to remove any twigs, stones, bugs etc. from a bunker. That rule kind of bothers me as well. To me a bunker should be almost as neatly kept as the fairway, not another penalty for hitting a slightly wayward shot.

Longball the good news is that we don't get to decide The problem with hitting out of divots here in Florida, is that it is not possible to replace divots,you either fill them with sand if you are respectful or just leave the divot open! On a highly travelled course there is a lot of them in small areas,tough to deal with some times. I just play it as it lies and deal with it. Tighthead makes a good point,we all take the good breaks,sometimes we have to take the bad ones! IMO Todd

3 rules I can possibly see changing:

-DQ for signing an incorrect score-card
-Remove penalty for the ball moving on the green after the player is at address (change only applies if it is deemed that the player didn't cause the ball to move, ie: wind, slope of green or other outside agent causes ball to move)
-Free drop from a divot in the fairway

Point taken. I agree- I should have acknowledged that.

Well I mean the entire point is that you should have not hit the ball there. I agree, it sucks. However, I think it would be two easy to just take two club lengths and drop. Also, you might rather re-hit from the previous point. Because where there is OB, two club lengths might be a crappy option.

Agree with several previous posters on putting the OB rule in line with those for a lateral hazard.

Opening hole on my home course, a long par 4 has OB on both sides!! Driving range on the right, entrance road on the left. (there's another hole to the left of the road) I can see them not wanting golfers hitting back over the road. But shouldn't the range be marked as a hazard?

There ought to be a rule where the player who pulls a Henrik Stenson gets cuffed and dragged into a hospitality tent and beaten with a Pat Perez headcover.

Ok, well you bring up a GREAT point. The problem is the way courses are marked, not so much the rules. OB needs to be watched carefully the way it is marked, because its a harsh penalty. However, IMO the range shouldn't me marked as anything..

And by the rule book definition. The range SHOULD NOT be marked as any kind of lateral hazard. Lateral hazard is any ditch man made or not filled with water or not. Yes you can have a dry piece of land marked as a hazard but it shouldn't be.

Its just bad placement/marking of a golf hole. Simple as that.

Hitting out of a divot is part of golf IMO. Its not difficult to do.

The only things that i would change is removing stones from near your ball in a bunker. There is nothing worse then dinging your forged wedge. Especially if you know its going to happen.

The second is patting down spike marks and repairing pitch marks in your putting line.

No, you think that club wants knuckleheads like many of us on here who would run out into a busy range to save a stroke and risk being hit by a screaming line drive?

Its marked that way before the round, you knew you had to be straight there, and the rule applies to everyone - what is the problem - put down the driver, pull out a 3 iron and get on with the round

Agree with stones in the bunker. The European tour allows for stones/rocks to moved out of bunker. (When the PGA tour was question why this isn't allowed, they said how do you define a stone? The answer of the European tour was, we know a stone when we see on! ha)

You can repair pitch marks on the putting surface just not spike marks.

longballs, you bring up a good point!

The argument that you should not have it there...ie out of bounds v/s stroke and distance...is not at all vaild.

Why should out of bounds yield a more sever penalty than hitting into a hazrd...it should not.
There is no valid reason why out of bounds should not be treated in the same way as a lateral hazard.

The siging the scorecard thing...that should not change...as a player you SHOULD be resonsible for that..goodness me responsiblilty for that is minor...how hard can that be?
really..
this coming from somebody who was dq'd in the sate am after 3 rounds, one back of the lead, for failing to check my card.

My argument isn't valid? So if someone pounds a 350 yard drive, that goes OB, they get to talk up, take a drop, hit onto the green, and still save par easily? The penalty NEEDS to be more than a hazard.

At least with water, chances are the player wasn't to far offline. Normally OB you need to hit a pretty bad shot to get there..

And the valid reason is.. the rule book says so.

The rationale is more practical than anything else - to discourage play at or near that point. Many OB areas border homes, roads, and parking lots - areas that are often not on the property of the club and that contain things that cost a lot of money to repair when a ball goes through or into one ( i actually knew a guy who hooked an iron into a house through the dining room window and destroyed their china set). The clubs all have insurance to protect against this, and increasing the penalty theoretically should deter people from playing near there and decreasing the potential for a bad situation. Most hazards are internal and within the confines of the golf course and property of the club.

Mine is going to be very unpopular, but one of the things I dislike in the rules is how often you have to find the "nearest point of complete relief." That spot can be a truly miserable two feet of the golf course. There is no way to describe "roughly similar playing conditions" etc. that will mean the same thing to all golfers, but when your ball stops on a cartpath or in casual water or on a sprinkler-head 3 inches from the putting surface, and your nearest point of complete relief no nearer the hole is a downhill lie in the rough, six feet from a short pin, etc. etc. it is difficult to take your drop. You don't have to take your drop, but hitting off a sprinkler head poses problems of its own.

In almost every other situation in golf, it is deemed to be advantageous to go nearer to the hole, so why not allow people to take relief further from the hole even if it is not the nearest point of complete relief from the obstruction, etc. I'm not saying people should be allowed to drop it on the fairway, but man, sometimes you get really torched on that one.

I can provide anecdotes from my own tournament play if need be.

IMO,

The game has nothing to do with officials, cameras or computers. It has to do with integrity. One day, we may all have a chip implanted in our brains that would prevent mistakes of any kind. But you will STILL have to sign your card. This rule isn't meant to offend. It's your stamp that you believe what you are turning in is accurate. People have lost the Masters over this. Yet it is quite easy to prevent a disaster by reviewing your card.

agreed, If they needed to....make the fairway (short cut) tighter, with a longer/wider first cut.

That way you are being rewarded for being extremely accurate and you dont to be punished for hitting a nearly perfect shot.

Stroke AND Distance is a double penalty. I don't think there is another rule that I am aware of that penalizes a player twice for an errant shot other than that one. So, in answering the OP's question, that is the one rule I would change (regardless of circumstance - OB, lost ball, etc).

This is the first thing I said when I saw the thread title. It doesn't happen often but Major Championships have been lost over this garbage.

Its not a double penalty.. It would just be to advantageous for the player to need only do one. ie; You hit a ball OB, "oh ok, i'll drop where I went out, one stroke penalty" or, "i'll re-hit from here, no penalty." that doesn't make much sense to me.


On another note about scorecards, like someone said earlier, the point is just to protect the integrity of the game. I think its a good idea.

The Tiger version of "Loose Impediment"! To me, the definition for a loose impediment is something the player can remove by himself! It is NOT a boulder that takes 12 beer belly behemoths to roll out of the way!

Because when you hit it OB, it's off the course. It's gone. When you hit it in a hazard, you're still on the course...go ahead and climb in and hit it out if you don't want to drop. Stroke and distance is perfect for OB. Don't hit it there. That's a very valid argument. You just don't like it.


Lost ball. Stroke and distance is a great penalty for lost or ball out of bounds.

I'd like to see players able to tap down spike marks IF they aren't wearing metal spikes. If you aren't causing the greens to get spiked up, you shouldn't be penalized for someone who is. Likewise, if you're going to wear metal spikes, you should be willing to take the chance that someone else wearing metal spikes is going to leave one in your line.

-mini

longball..
come on mate..the out of bounds rule is alot older than the logic of houses on golf courses.
This game was played for hundreds of years before there was a house on a golf course boundary...that is a poor argument!

Not really - while there may not have been houses or parking lots, there was adjoining property owned by others (basic property rights does not allow one to just go onto the property of another), but in any event, for many of those years there was no out of bounds period.

Then it became a need to define a certain boundary for fair play and uniformity. Those ideas combined with the deterrent from damaging and/or tresspassing upon anothers property, are the reason that the rule is in place and will not change.

Minitour...
That is not true...my argument is that you can hit a ball twenty yards offline into the middle of a lake abd get a drop, whilst you could be two inches"off the course" as you put it and have a sterner penalty...that is my argument.

You think that is right?

1. Stroke and distance
2. 14 club rule, let's go to 12 then see how good of shotmakers the pros are
3. COR-the COR was allowed to give long hitters too much of an advantage by increasing the spring like effect which was in the rule book for years. When the USGA finally figured out a way to measure spring like effect the market was already flooded with large Titanium drivers and for the fear of a lawsuit they set the standard way too lacks. The issue I have with the rule is that long hitters seem to gain distance exponentially while shorter hitters gain very little. Shorter courses less bomb and gouge and more shot making. I love the larger Ti heads, but I dont think you should gain an COR advantage, I am fine with the MOI advantage but this is JMO.
4. I like the new groove rule, it should be enforced tomorrow and get rid of the stupid grace period. I have a spin milled wedge and love it, but again the pros gain too much of an advantage while the average guy really gains nothing.

(basic property rights does not allow one to just go onto the property of another),

Who said anything about going onto their property?
Not me...when you hit your ball into the middle of a lake do you go onto the lake and hit it?
I maintain that the penalty does not fit the crime...as in the previous post...that is my only beef.
Very often, especially on mdern house laden golf courses, the worst of the two shots would be hitting into the hazard versus out of bounds and the penalty is less severe.
I dont see why the two penalties cannot be the same.
ie..drop and penalty shot closest point to where the ball went out of bounds.
Speed up play as well...as in wlaking up and finding that your ball is out of bounds and having to walk back to the tee.

Out of bounds should be more of a penalty because it is not part of the hole. Hazards are placed there to make the game more of a challenge- risk vs. reward, etc. Out of bounds is just that, out of bounds. It is not part of the playing surface. So you should be penalized more for hitting a ball outside of the valid playing surface.

As far as the scorecard thing, I guess we should now start asking bowlers to sign their scorecard, baseball teams to validate their score at the end of the game, maybe football teams too? This is the only sport that does this to professionals.

When it comes to the score, ALL that matters is what actually happened- the actual score. Reality is king here. It does not matter that the player signed the card- 4 strokes on 18 is still 4 strokes on 18- regardless of whether he put a 5 on the card or signed it. It makes no sense. We know he really shot a 4 and the only purpose to the rule in this case is to make sure the player is honest or not mistake prone. Is the 4 somehow in question? No! It will still be reported as a 4!

The only reason those rules exist is because when there are no officials on the course, no one to keep score for the players, all you have left is some guys word that he really shot what his scorecard says he shot. He's been out on the course for 5 hours with no supervision other than his opponent. In a professional tournament, covered on TV and the Internet, that makes no sense- it is not needed.

As I said, for amateur and mini-tour tournaments where you don't have all the video, computers, Shot Link, and hundreds of volunteers, absolutely- the scorecard rules should apply.