The other day I'm playing with a guy and he hits a putt with his ball marker still behind the ball. It was a very windy/dusty day, so I'm guessing he just wanted to hit his putt when the winds briefly died down, but forgot to remove his ball marker before striking the putt. Does anyone know what the ruling is on this, or if there is a penalty? No one in our group knew the applicable ruling. We just saw that as the ball was going towards the hole, the marker was still there.

Thanks!

I'm guessing there has to be some form of penalty, or else people could use unique "ball markers" to help with alignment/direction. I just couldn't find anything in the usga rules book.

No penalty for leaving a "plain" ball marker there during the stroke. However, he is not gaining anything as the ball is in play when replaced. If he addresses the ball and it moves, he is still subject to penalty.

Using a marker with an alignment aid during the stroke would be a penalty as per 14-3a.

Kevin

I can't find anything in the rules that says you must pick up your marker. The rules do state that the ball marker must be a "small coin or other similar object". Keeping it on the ground and using it for alignment help would probably get you a penalty under rule 14-3 for unusual equipment or unusual use of equipment.

Great. Thanks for the info everyone!

Not disagreeing with the "ruling", but this seems like a dangerously subjective matter. In this game of honor, we are supposed to take the word of our opponent it's not for alignment? Seems to me so as to not have any potential appearance of impropriety, the marker should be picked up no matter what given that a case can be made that any marker can be interpreted as an aid.

You answered your own question. That is not unique to this situation. "INTENT" is a large part of the rules of golf, and only the player can answer the question.

Kevin

Did he make the putt????

well, unless the ball marker had lines on it, i just don't see how it could aid one during a putt. Considering it is placed on the same line as the ball to the hole.

response to chippen... no, he didn't make the putt. the guy actually 3 jacked from about 15 feet, so... had he made it, we probably would have had more discussion about the situation on the green than we did.

obviously the picture i attached below would be considered illegal (i think?) if someone tried to use it during a round... but i have actually seen some people use coin-looking markers with faint lines that i would consider an illegal alignment aid, but others might not, since they were only the size of a quarter...

You may use them to mark your ball. They must be removed before the stroke... To mark and align your ball, fine. To use as an aid while stroking your putt, no-no.

Kevin

Yup alignment aids must be removed before the stroke.
No different than on the course....technically you can place a couple clubs on the ground like railroad tracks, line up to those clubs, then have the clubs removed after you are all lined up....perfectly legal.
However you might find yourself without playing partners very soon.

As for the "marker must be a small coin or something similar" where is that in the rules?
I've never seen it.

Rule 20-1

Note: The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.

=======================

Note the use of the word should, which makes it a suggestion only, not mandatory.

Kevin

Thanks Kev.

I did see the word "should" but have never seen the word "must"....so everything still makes sense.

The "should" refers to the marking of the ball, not the type of object used to mark it. My sense of reading that rule would be that the ball should be marked with an object, but that this object "must" be a marker or coin or some similar object. However, this creates an interesting enough oddity in the rules, since, practically, there is no "should" about marking the ball. According to this rule, it is still optional in golf to mark your ball, although the stimey has been taken out of the game, of course. The guys I play with, especially in tournament play (but even casually), wouldn't hit their putts with a ball anywhere on the green.

rankoutsider,

I respectfully suggest that the reason you think it to be an oddity is the way you are reading it. I'm afraid I disagree with your interpretation. Sorry my friend, I may be wrong...

Kevin

Kev my friend... damn my weak interpretive skills. Of course, I knew from playing tournaments that the ball must be lifted and marked, but found it odd that the rule still said should. Having re-read it, I now see the error of my view....


The ball has to be lifted, but the "position" of it "should" be marked with some such object. The problem for me now, though, is that the should makes it seem that you could mark the ball with a blade of grass, a dead bug, etc. when all of those would clearly be illegal.

Why the should? It has to be a ball marker, and fall within a fairly conventional shape, etc.

Rob

The way I see the word should in that is as a suggestion to the player, for their benefit. I think the responsibility to the player is to replace the ball where it was. To that end, you could use something like a leaf to mark it, but if the leaf blew away, you would be penalised for basically not being able to replace it where it was. IMO the word should in the rules is a dangerous one because people think it means they can do what they like. While it is true that they can, there may well be consequences. Another example is where you measure your nearest point of relief. The rules say you should use the club you would use for the next shot. Not must. So in theory, if using your driver to measure it gave you a better point of relief (say the other side of a cart path) you might think you can do that. the thing is, you can't. Your nearest point of relief is wherever it is. If you use a different club to measure where you are going to play it as, you may end up in the wrong place and then you will (or at least should) get penalised.

As to whether a coin could be an aid, some people struggle to avoid following the ball to the hole and hence lifting their head. The coin may give them something to look at so serving to help them stop themselves from lifting their head. This would constitute an aid. However, whether that is what someone is actually doing is a question of fact, that you will have to trust them to be honest about. All things considered, it's best to pick it up and remove all doubt.

Rob, here is a decision that may help make things a little clearer.

Kevin

20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
Q. The Note to Rule 20-1 provides that “the position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball.” Is a player penalized if he uses an object that is not similar to a ball-marker or small coin to mark the position of his ball?

A. No. The provision in the Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommendation of best practice, but there is no penalty for failing to act in accordance with the Note.

Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball that are not recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:

• placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball;

• using a tee;

• using a loose impediment;

• scratching a line, provided the putting green is not tested (Rule 16-1d) and a line for putting is not indicated (Rule 8-2b). As this practice may cause damage to the putting green, it is discouraged.

However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green.

When moving a ball or ball-marker to the side to prevent it from interfering with another player’s stance or stroke, the player may measure from the side of the ball or ball-marker. In order to accurately replace the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, the steps used to move the ball or ball-marker to the side should be reversed. (Revised)

very good topic. I did not know that you HAD to pick up your ball when on the green. Of course I don't have a copy and have never read all of the rules. Shame on me...

CJordan

I might be completely wrong here, but I've never read a ruling on "mandatory ball marking". Marking the ball on the green is more of an etiquette issue than a rules issue unless it interferes w/ another players line.

BDLz

CJordan,

From where do you get that idea?

Kevin

Hey BDLz: That is what I thought from the way the rule is worded, but that is not correct. The ball has to be lifted when it is not your turn to putt, and it should be marked in accordance with this rule. The marking is not simply etiquette, although the use of the word "should" in the rule is completely incorrect. That word "should" should be changed to "must" OR marking the ball should be genuinely discretionary. Since it is not discretionary, the wording needs to be changed.

Good topic....

Rob

Sorry Rob,

The ball does not have to be marked when on the green unless it is determined by a competitor that it may assist or interfere with himself or another player.

Kevin

I know that is what the rule actually states, but it certainly has become common practice, at least in the tournaments I have played in, that all balls are automatically marked when the group gets to the green. Nobody ever leaves a ball down while someone is putting, and most people will not putt if a ball is down, even if it is miles away from them and not on the through line. Same thing on the tour, of course. Nor will they tap in a putt if you inadvertantly mark while they are walking to their ball (to save time). In fact, you could probably cause a few guys I know to blow a gasket, and their tournament, if you refused to mark since your ball was not on their line or could not interfere with their putt.

For fun play with a group of guys, the should is fine, but you simply never see anyone leave a ball down anymore. Still, there is probably no real need to change the wording as long as everyone playing tournament golf knows that the should is in fact a must.

Rob

Correct in that it is a common courtesy. I ALWAYS mark my ball as does everybody that I know who has played the game more than casually, but it is not a requirement. You are also correct that many would "blow a gasket." I hate to see another ball on the green when I am putting...

Kevin

I'd love to play match-play against your buddies and really get them steaming...

BDLz

Well, as these thing go, it is pretty much the most inconsiderate player I have even played with in a tournament who is the most obnoxious on these points. He also fouled me up pretty good once on an imbedded lie ruling, although it was my own stupidity to not play two balls and consult the rules committee later. Live and learn.

For some reason, I always get paired with him in tournaments. I suspect everyone else in the club has made it known that they won't play with the guy, and I have yet to be that upfront about it.

Anyway, he would be so easy to knock off his game it isn't funny. And you don' t really need to do it to beat him at match play anyway. But I hear what you are saying, and just once I want to give it back to him (be the bigger man, Rob, be the bigger man....)

cheers,
Rob

The only times I mark and lift a ball on the green is when I need to clean it (which is rare because I lose them before they can get dirty ) or if it is interfereing/assisting with someone else.

The whole notion of always lifting a ball on the green is quite foreign to me. And it seems like of work to me too. I'm perfectly content not to touch my ball until I retrieve it from the hole.