Hey guys here's a couple of questions I need help with:
1. Do you get relief from a white fence marking Out-of-Bounds?
And do you know what rule to procede under?
2. Do you get relief from a red or yellow water hazard stake? Just in general.
And do you know what rule to procede?
Thanks
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A stake which defines boundaries, you DO NOT receive relief from...
A stake which defines hazards, you DO receive relief from...
Now with that said, I hope I'm right...
I'm not looking at a rules book at the moment...
I should have this memorized, but I just refer to the book when necessary...
A stake which defines hazards, you DO receive relief from...
Now with that said, I hope I'm right...
I'm not looking at a rules book at the moment...
I should have this memorized, but I just refer to the book when necessary...
1) No relief
13-2/17 Removal of Boundary Stake Interfering with Swing
Q. A player removes a stake defining out of bounds which interferes with his swing. Is this permissible?
A. No. Objects defining out of bounds are fixed. Improving the position of a ball by moving anything fixed is a breach of Rule 13-2.
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
13-2/17 Removal of Boundary Stake Interfering with Swing
Q. A player removes a stake defining out of bounds which interferes with his swing. Is this permissible?
A. No. Objects defining out of bounds are fixed. Improving the position of a ball by moving anything fixed is a breach of Rule 13-2.
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
Correct. No relief from boundary stakes, No relief from a fence that defines the boundary.
Kevin
Kevin
QUOTE (klaymon @ Dec 18 2008, 04:04 PM) 
1) No relief
13-2/17 Removal of Boundary Stake Interfering with Swing
Q. A player removes a stake defining out of bounds which interferes with his swing. Is this permissible?
A. No. Objects defining out of bounds are fixed. Improving the position of a ball by moving anything fixed is a breach of Rule 13-2.
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
13-2/17 Removal of Boundary Stake Interfering with Swing
Q. A player removes a stake defining out of bounds which interferes with his swing. Is this permissible?
A. No. Objects defining out of bounds are fixed. Improving the position of a ball by moving anything fixed is a breach of Rule 13-2.
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
Hazard stakes are movable obstructions.
Kevin
Previous poster is absolutely correct.
Hazard stakes might be moveable obstructions in the rule book, but my club didn't get the memo!
Some stakes are made from metal and definitely are not moveable.
But from those you get relief anyways, via the immoveable obstruction part.
Some stakes are made from metal and definitely are not moveable.
But from those you get relief anyways, via the immoveable obstruction part.
A good tidbit to remember is that you can stand out of bounds to hit a ball in bounds (if the ball is in bounds obviously)..Seen that done a few times.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
A ball is out of bounds if all of the ball is out...if any of the ball is touching the line than it is in.
The out of bounds line is defined by the inside edge at ground level of the posts.
For a hazard if any of the ball is touching the hazard the ball is deemed to be in the harazrd.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
A ball is out of bounds if all of the ball is out...if any of the ball is touching the line than it is in.
The out of bounds line is defined by the inside edge at ground level of the posts.
For a hazard if any of the ball is touching the hazard the ball is deemed to be in the harazrd.
QUOTE (DallasPanic @ Dec 19 2008, 03:59 PM)
A good tidbit to remember is that you can stand out of bounds to hit a ball in bounds (if the ball is in bounds obviously)..Seen that done a few times.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
I did this once myself. My ball was up against a chain-link fence marking the OB boundry behind the green. I jumped the fence and whacked the fence with my wedge, moving my ball forward, although not onto the green. I then got up and down for an "easy" bogey.
QUOTE (BILL12x @ Dec 19 2008, 04:38 PM)
QUOTE (DallasPanic @ Dec 19 2008, 03:59 PM)
A good tidbit to remember is that you can stand out of bounds to hit a ball in bounds (if the ball is in bounds obviously)..Seen that done a few times.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
I did this once myself. My ball was up against a chain-link fence marking the OB boundry behind the green. I jumped the fence and whacked the fence with my wedge, moving my ball forward, although not onto the green. I then got up and down for an "easy" bogey.
i'm no rules expert at all, just curious. you're allowed to let the fence come between the club and the ball on the downswing like that?
14-1/5 Moving Ball Lying Against Fence by Striking Other Side of Fence
Q. A player’s ball lies against a board at the base of an out of bounds fence. He swings a club from the out of bounds side of the fence against the board, i.e., swings at the ball with the board intervening between the club and the ball. The stroke moves the board which causes the ball to move away from the fence. Is such a stroke permissible?
A. Yes. The player fairly struck at the ball even though other material intervened between the club and the ball. The Definition of “Out of Bounds” allows a player to “stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds.”
Q. A player’s ball lies against a board at the base of an out of bounds fence. He swings a club from the out of bounds side of the fence against the board, i.e., swings at the ball with the board intervening between the club and the ball. The stroke moves the board which causes the ball to move away from the fence. Is such a stroke permissible?
A. Yes. The player fairly struck at the ball even though other material intervened between the club and the ball. The Definition of “Out of Bounds” allows a player to “stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds.”
QUOTE (BILL12x @ Dec 19 2008, 03:38 PM)
QUOTE (DallasPanic @ Dec 19 2008, 03:59 PM)
A good tidbit to remember is that you can stand out of bounds to hit a ball in bounds (if the ball is in bounds obviously)..Seen that done a few times.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
Once saw a call get lodged in a fence defining out of bounds so the guy climbed over the fence (a ways back to not move the ball) and hit the ball back into play! Lucky break for sure.
I did this once myself. My ball was up against a chain-link fence marking the OB boundry behind the green. I jumped the fence and whacked the fence with my wedge, moving my ball forward, although not onto the green. I then got up and down for an "easy" bogey.
Nice work!! Always good to hear stories about when knowing the rules work to your advantage!
Its almost 5 o'clock Wohoo!
QUOTE (KevCarter @ Dec 19 2008, 04:44 PM)
14-1/5 Moving Ball Lying Against Fence by Striking Other Side of Fence
Q. A player's ball lies against a board at the base of an out of bounds fence. He swings a club from the out of bounds side of the fence against the board, i.e., swings at the ball with the board intervening between the club and the ball. The stroke moves the board which causes the ball to move away from the fence. Is such a stroke permissible?
A. Yes. The player fairly struck at the ball even though other material intervened between the club and the ball. The Definition of "Out of Bounds" allows a player to "stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds."
Q. A player's ball lies against a board at the base of an out of bounds fence. He swings a club from the out of bounds side of the fence against the board, i.e., swings at the ball with the board intervening between the club and the ball. The stroke moves the board which causes the ball to move away from the fence. Is such a stroke permissible?
A. Yes. The player fairly struck at the ball even though other material intervened between the club and the ball. The Definition of "Out of Bounds" allows a player to "stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds."
grazie!
QUOTE (Marrrk @ Dec 19 2008, 05:05 PM)
QUOTE (KevCarter @ Dec 19 2008, 04:44 PM)
14-1/5 Moving Ball Lying Against Fence by Striking Other Side of Fence
Q. A player's ball lies against a board at the base of an out of bounds fence. He swings a club from the out of bounds side of the fence against the board, i.e., swings at the ball with the board intervening between the club and the ball. The stroke moves the board which causes the ball to move away from the fence. Is such a stroke permissible?
A. Yes. The player fairly struck at the ball even though other material intervened between the club and the ball. The Definition of "Out of Bounds" allows a player to "stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds."
Q. A player's ball lies against a board at the base of an out of bounds fence. He swings a club from the out of bounds side of the fence against the board, i.e., swings at the ball with the board intervening between the club and the ball. The stroke moves the board which causes the ball to move away from the fence. Is such a stroke permissible?
A. Yes. The player fairly struck at the ball even though other material intervened between the club and the ball. The Definition of "Out of Bounds" allows a player to "stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds."
grazie!
No problem. I looked it up because I wasn't sure if it was OK either.
Kevin
QUOTE (KevCarter @ Dec 18 2008, 05:07 PM)
QUOTE (klaymon @ Dec 18 2008, 04:04 PM)
1) No relief
...
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
...
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
Hazard stakes are movable obstructions.
Kevin
I think you're assuming they can be easily moved right Kev? I've seen many like AirTime's which would be classed as immovable obstructions.
QUOTE (AirTime23 @ Dec 19 2008, 11:30 AM)
Hazard stakes might be moveable obstructions in the rule book, but my club didn't get the memo!
Some stakes are made from metal and definitely are not moveable.
But from those you get relief anyways, via the immoveable obstruction part.
Some stakes are made from metal and definitely are not moveable.
But from those you get relief anyways, via the immoveable obstruction part.
Except when you're actually in the hazard, where no relief is available from immovable obstructions (Rule 24-2b: Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction...)
It's also a reasonably common Local Rule to have stakes defined as immovable obstructions, regardless of how easily moved they are.
QUOTE (jontyc @ Dec 21 2008, 03:18 AM)
QUOTE (KevCarter @ Dec 18 2008, 05:07 PM)
QUOTE (klaymon @ Dec 18 2008, 04:04 PM)
1) No relief
...
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
...
2) Not sure if hazard stakes are "fixed" or "immovable". Cannot find an explicit rule or decision on it.
Hazard stakes are movable obstructions.
Kevin
I think you're assuming they can be easily moved right Kev? I've seen many like AirTime's which would be classed as immovable obstructions.
QUOTE (AirTime23 @ Dec 19 2008, 11:30 AM)
Hazard stakes might be moveable obstructions in the rule book, but my club didn't get the memo!
Some stakes are made from metal and definitely are not moveable.
But from those you get relief anyways, via the immoveable obstruction part.
Some stakes are made from metal and definitely are not moveable.
But from those you get relief anyways, via the immoveable obstruction part.
Except when you're actually in the hazard, where no relief is available from immovable obstructions (Rule 24-2b: Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction...)
It's also a reasonably common Local Rule to have stakes defined as immovable obstructions, regardless of how easily moved they are.
Good catch Jon, I misunderstood the question. Now that I read it again, I think I gave the right answer to the wrong question!
Kevin
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