I know there are a lot of opinions out there. I say Phil would be better off without him. What do you guys think?

I think he should use any coach he wants to if he thinks it can help his game.

Having said that, Pelz is a short-game guy, isn't he? Phil's short game is pretty good last I heard.

Now, I would argue that you shouldn't use a short-game coach to make long-game recommendations, and that may be a flaw in his thinking. It's a matter of hiring the right people and giving them "authority" over their area of expertise- no more, no less.

Pelz recommending that he dump his driver in favor of an extra wedge is Pelz overstepping his bounds... and Phil should not have listened to him. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20.

One cant help but feel that perhaps there is too much anlysis and preperation going on..but that is for Big Phil to figure out himself

I agree that Phil is is sometimes suffering from paralysis(sp?) through analysis. I think Phil got tired of being slammed for his go for broke free-wheeling style, but to me that was what made Phil such an exciting player. In the end I know it's Phils choice but I do miss the old Phil.

Not only should Phil dump Pelz, the entire golf world should dump DP.

Frankly, I don't think he adds a single thing to the game of golf. There's nothing he can provide that can't be learned through practice or experience. In fact, I think most average golfers would be better off NOT listening to single thing Pelz teaches. But hey, that's JMHO.

I think that Dave Peltz has added a whole scientific dimension to golf - his PEI is an objective measurement of a player's skill with his irons and his idea of 3/4, half and 1/4 swings with multiple clubs to determine distance is great for those of us not blessed with Phil or Seve's short game.

That said, the idea of an extra wedge and his extraordinary mechanization of what is a complete feel operation - chipping and pitching - is, in my opinion, damaging to a pro.

When someone performs an accuracy biased operation - throwing a baseball pitch, kicking a goal or even throwing a dart in the pub! - that last thing we do is make it a mechanical task. It is done via muscle memory. I doubt that Greg Maddux, Jonny Wilkinson or Phil Taylor would tell you that they wind their arm/leg/wrist back to a precise point and let go. Vast amounts of practice have grooved their actions. Yes there is technique involved but it is a framework for guiding their talent not the be all and end all.

Stan Utley seems to have a better idea.

The guy puts Phil's chips on a launch monitor for Christ's sake! And he uses those numbers as a basis for his argument that Phil has the best finishing game in the world, that he gets unbelievable launch conditions on his pitches and chips!

I mean I understand that may be useful information, but you can gain that and more just by watching someone chip on a practice green and launch numbers for chips should not be a basis for any kind of overall assessment of someone's game. Paralysis by analysis.

yes

Phil's short game is good, but I don't think it's nearly as God-like as people think it is. Still makes too many errors and doesn't quite putt as well as he should. Personally I hate is address position with the putter. Feet too close together, but even worse..the ball is way to far forward in his stance. Surprised Pelz hasn't tried to change it. He's still a good putter, but I think a change of his address position would get him into being a top 5 putter in the world.

But that just seems to be the case with Phil. His biggest problems are with his swing. In particular he has taken the club too far inside and his back knee straightens at the top of the swing. I know Rick Smith tried to get him from taking the club too far inside and I'm guessing he tried to get him out of straightening his back swing...yet Phil kept on doing it. Now that he's working with Harmon he's improved in both of those areas..probably because if he didn't do what Harmon says Butch could/would go to the media about it and Butch has such a credible name that everybody would think Phil was lazy and he'd lose face. So Pelz may be telling him to do certain things like change his address position and Phil may just not be listening.

So it really depends with me. If Phil is being Phil, then there's no reason for him to change from Pelz because Pelz isn't the problem. But if Pelz is afraid to mention that Phil needs to make some changes in his putting mechanics, then yes...he should get rid of him.




3JACK

In answer to the original question, not just "Yes," but "hell Yes."

Pelz has nothing to add and no credentials. Just do a little Pelz research and find out what happened to the first touring pro Pelz "helped."

Are you referring to Tom Sieckman?

Another thought on this. I wonder how well Butch Harmon and Pelz get along?

Question--Was Phil a good short game (sand/chipping/pitching/lob) player before he ever met Pelz?
Answer--- The best I had ever seen.

Question--Is Phil better now that he's worked with Pelz?
Answer --- Not as consistant with the wedges (paralysis by analysis) Not near as good with the putter.

I think Butch can help Phil, but not untill he's his only Coach.

or vice versa. Is Phil diminishing Pelz' reputation?

as much as i hate both pelz and phil i will remind everyone the whole reason phil started working with him is because of all those three footers phil would miss whenever the pressure was on


and putting chips and pitches on the launch moniter is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard.

Phil needs to dump all his coaches and just go back to playing feel golf which is what he is best at.

Spot on!!

I'm no Phil Mickelson (my bag says different) but whenever I get too technical my game totally goes. Golf is a feel game and a pro as good as Mickelson doesn't need to worry about the science, Seve didn't!

They've actually done quite good together. I think Phil's loss of the 06 US Open will reverberate for years to come and Phil may not win another major again. The same thing happened to Palmer after he blew the US Open to Billy Casper when he had a 5-6 shot lead going into the back nine. It's hard to recover from things like that. Phil should keep Pelz and look to some sports psychologists.

dave pelz is all stats and figures. how's that any way to play golf. he should just commentate but not teach imo. he'd make the best golf trading card series.

Tried reading his short game bible...i like details but his love for statistics is as you guys have said... paralysing. Stopped after like 5 pages. and its a great point, short game is feel. teaching that via numbers (is that launch monitor story real?) doesn't seem like a good thing for ANYONE.

and i really really doubt Pelz created the "...idea of 3/4, half and 1/4 swings with multiple clubs to determine distance ".

I think Phil needs Vijay's sports psychologist. ... Phil i hear you're the best golfer in the world.... you better believe it

Sincerely hope Phil gets better. its always good to see some1 giving Tiger some competition.

Phil needs to grow a pair.

If Pelz can sell him on dropping a driver and adding a wedge, Phil is either a zombie or an idiot. Phil's bag has never been set and he always struggles with equipment as a result.

Tiger's bag almost never changes. Vijay only switches putters. Phil changes anything at any time.

If its the 3 footers under pressure,

What about Bob Rotella? He talks about the many feel things above. Seemed to help Davis Love, Brad Faxon etc

"Phil Mickelson has the best short game I have ever seen," Pelz said. "No question. He is very creative and has no fear. The launch angles he gets are just absurd. Earlier this year he was not putting well because he had been working on his swing with Butch Harmon, but now it's the best I've ever seen. I think he's got a great chance at this Open."


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/go...t-13911445.html


So, although it isn't necessarily a "story" and it wasn't explicitly stated that he was put on a launch monitor, I think it's safe to assume as much.

Phil as we know, has been working on his swing this year. I think we will see him in contention more this season. Also, he could use a better "work out" routine!!!

Yep.

Torrey Pines with no driver at the US OPEN?

nuff said.

No to dumping Pelz. From the little that you hear Bones and Phil speak on-course, they use his methods as an option ("I could Pelz it blah blah"). The bigger difference has been the information that Pelz provides. Dave got Phil to really prepare for majors and stopped some of his miracle-worker tendencies using percentages and stats. Any good coach will try to reign in a player that is making questionable decisions. Phil is still his own man on the course, only he has more information to work with than he did before.

Don't forget the success they have shared.

I'll agree on the stupidity of the no-driver at Torrey though. That was insane.

Exactly what I think as well. Phil has an immense about of natural talent and skill groomed by "finding it in the dirt". I think he is seriously over analyzing things and just needs to put (the same) 14 clubs in his bag and go play golf for a while.

I think Pelz helped Phil win his first majors.

Now I think Pelz has helped him lose the last several. It's time to move on. Pelz needs to go.

I read somewhere that when Bones and Phil are talking of "pelz'ing" a shot it is just a half shot. As in a
pelz cut with a 7 iron would be a half swing 7 iron with a cut.

He was in position in the 06 US Open and he went to his "feel" pre-Pelz instincts and what happened? Couldn't hit a fairway w the driver(which he didn't all week) and then couldn't resist trying a miracle shot and misses a playoff or an outright win because he doubles the last hole.

Yes. Anyone that believes carrying 5 wedges is insane. Pro or no pro.

I think it should be the other way round - Pelz should dump Phil. Pretty soon Phil's game will be so hit and miss that Pelz will lose all credibility. But then, that's not such a bad thing - I don't really like Pelz's self-righteousness.
I agree that Phil needs to get off his butt and start doing what he does best - aggressive attacking golf. If Phil could consistantly drive the ball well, he'd win more tournaments. I don't think Phil has a problem with his short game; just his confidence.

i think phil's short game has suffered more from weight lifting than pelz, i can't remember which tournament i saw but his arms looked more built than i had ever seen, i think that can affect your short game, different strokes for different folks, but i think some people are better off "soft" when it comes to golf, or just more slim, but "phil with guns" might not be a good combo

Phil is one of the best wedge players in the world and it boggles my mind that the best wedge player would need 5 wedges!!! I think that Pelz has some good ideas (the quarter, half and 3/4 swing techniques), but he's too quantitative and is causing Phil to over think things. Sure mechanics are great to have but what makes the best players in the world are their ability to use "feel" and be creative. I think that Phil should dump Pelz and go with Butch on everything. If I recall, when Butch worked with Tiger on the long and short game, it worked out pretty well for his game.

Yes, that's the Pelz theory, 1/2 3/4 and full shots with less hand action and a smooth tempo. Personally I've used it to great success before, but that was back when I could practice all the time.

Not sure about using it for anything higher than a PW though.

I am reminded about playing darts (a game I'm pretty good at, compared to golf!!!)- when I throw, I don't even think about the dart, technique, the score, my opponent, anything... except the target. That is the ONLY thing on my mind for those few seconds.

Pelz's methods sound like they are great for someone starting out or that otherwise needs help with their short game. But one of the best short game guys in the world? There may have been a point in time where he had some problems and felt he needed the help, I can certainly see that. But long term, I wouldn't think he needs that much help and Pelz is probably causing him to over analyze.

I would think by now, Phil doesn't even think about the club once the choice has been made of which one to use. It should just be about hitting the target.

Mr. Pelz has taken an art and turned it into a science. Too bad.

I agree. His short game was fantastic 2007 and before when he was not working out as much, and this year it seems like he has stepped it up a bit and has lost some feel with the wedges. I would think something like that might take a long time to get used to especially if he is getting progressively stronger and stronger. I wouldn't be surprised if next season his short game will be more like it was back in 2006 as he gets more used to his strength.

As far as the Pelz thing. He really has made a difference in Phil's course management and helped him win his first few majors, and he now hits shots that seem more appropriate for the situation (examples, less full flop shots, putting from the fringe rather than using wedge). IMO Pelz is a good thing.

I also have no idea what's going on inside either of their heads though so it's hard to say.

Yes.