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stealthontour
After falling off a horse and having a swollen face before the tournament, Today in the 3rd round he thumped his driver into a sprinkler head on the 7th and altered it. But instead of leaving it in the bag he tee'd off at the 8th with it and got himself DQ'd....
jaskanski
He's still young. Hopefully, he has just learned a painful lesson in pro golf. There is course management, swing management, diet management, even brand management. But character management is sometimes overlooked.
AK has the ability to put this behind him and win on the World circuit, with the support of fans along the way.
Furrankee
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!
jaskanski
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!


I couldn't disagree more. The whole point of professional golf is to conform to a reasonable standard of etiquette. It is the professional golfers responsibility to set an example for others to follow, regardless of their own emotions sometimes. Who wants to see someone losing his cool and getting DQed every week? Not me - and certainly not his sponsors either.
What AK does when he is OFF the course is a different matter - but is still open to public scrutiny. I don't have a problem with "do what you feel like", but when in the media spotlight - he should act appropriately.
mjtoal
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!



??????

Anyway, if that had been Sergio, you could imagine the posts now. Immature. Punk. No class. No manners. Bad loser, blah, blah, bloody blah.

Kim has learned one lesson. If you want to bang your club in frustration, don't bang it on a sprinkler head, bang it on something softer.
Furrankee
QUOTE (jaskanski @ Nov 9 2008, 12:47 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!


I couldn't disagree more. The whole point of professional golf is to conform to a reasonable standard of etiquette. It is the professional golfers responsibility to set an example for others to follow, regardless of their own emotions sometimes. Who wants to see someone losing his cool and getting DQed every week? Not me - and certainly not his sponsors either.
What AK does when he is OFF the course is a different matter - but is still open to public scrutiny. I don't have a problem with "do what you feel like", but when in the media spotlight - he should act appropriately.


I understand the etiquette and how it's intertwined and a part of the rules of golf. I also grant the fact that his sponsors may have contractual agreements that he behave to a certain standard. Having said this, the problem I have is not of AK banging sprinkler heads, or cursing at himself, or whatever. The problem is those that place judgment on players only trying to be themselves.

Let people be. As long as it's not physically harming others. There's just too many "thou shall attempt to project the right type of image" rules in life.
mont86
One story I saw also mentioned that he hurt his ankle at a friends house...Maybe he was drinking..lol..I like the kid and hes young..

He probably needs a little down time.
stealthontour
The main thing I think is the ignorance to use the driver on the next hole without checking it out.....

The caddy and Kim himself should have checked what damage had been done to the club, there's been enough cases of people breaking putters in a similar manner (Poulter banging his putter on a tee marker and the face insert falling out) and they then don't use the club for the rest of the round....

It's a simple rule which every pro golfer is aware of....
Rollshisrock
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:06 PM) *
QUOTE (jaskanski @ Nov 9 2008, 12:47 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!


I couldn't disagree more. The whole point of professional golf is to conform to a reasonable standard of etiquette. It is the professional golfers responsibility to set an example for others to follow, regardless of their own emotions sometimes. Who wants to see someone losing his cool and getting DQed every week? Not me - and certainly not his sponsors either.
What AK does when he is OFF the course is a different matter - but is still open to public scrutiny. I don't have a problem with "do what you feel like", but when in the media spotlight - he should act appropriately.


I understand the etiquette and how it's intertwined and a part of the rules of golf. I also grant the fact that his sponsors may have contractual agreements that he behave to a certain standard. Having said this, the problem I have is not of AK banging sprinkler heads, or cursing at himself, or whatever. The problem is those that place judgment on players only trying to be themselves.

Let people be. As long as it's not physically harming others. There's just too many "thou shall attempt to project the right type of image" rules in life.


What ever planet your from they obviously dont play golf!!!! If you dont like the rules go play a game where yobbish behaviour is tolerated!!! Granted a few of the rules are a little silly but most of us they play the game play it exactly for that reason. They are the rules,follow them,if not on your bike!!

And this may be a stab in the dark but these comments sound like they have come from somebody who has had trouble with the rules of golf and is now extremely bitter!! smile.gif Just my opinion though!!!!
joekelli
So does anyone know how they check and see if the club was altered? Or is it just because he hit an object with it? If he just slammed it into the ground he would have been fine right?
Golfchicago
QUOTE (stealthontour @ Nov 9 2008, 04:55 AM) *
The main thing I think is the ignorance to use the driver on the next hole without checking it out.....

The caddy and Kim himself should have checked what damage had been done to the club, there's been enough cases of people breaking putters in a similar manner (Poulter banging his putter on a tee marker and the face insert falling out) and they then don't use the club for the rest of the round....

It's a simple rule which every pro golfer is aware of....



Well said, this is really the only issue here. I don't understand some of the other comments. I agree with you this IS the issue.
drpurpell
So much for Tour equipment being made to such higher standards. biggrin.gif

As for all the other comments, he broke a club and got himself DQd because he didn't know the rules as he should. End of.
anders
fell off a horse onto his face? hit a sprinkler head with his driver face? whats with all the face business. Talking of which, Lando Calrisiens wing man from return of the jedi, nien numb is he AKs secret twin?
stealthontour
More on the story about the DQ....
http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/stor...anghai_Kim.html

and a quote about his off course injuries....

"The Asian-American signed for the tour last week but nearly missed out on his debut after he hurt his right ankle falling down some stairs and further injured himself in a riding accident.

'I think I'm a walking calamity right now, but I'm just trying to hang in there, get this tournament done and try to have as much fun as possible,' said the world number eight.

His health problems began at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago after his return from South Korea, his parents' homeland.

'We had just had dinner and I was walking down some stairs and rolled it pretty badly and thought I may have broken my foot and wasn't sure if I was going to be able to make it...this week,' he said.

He took time off to recuperate but was not in the mood to rest completely.

'I went horseback riding, which is really smart, on one of the days off and thought I had maybe broken my jaw,' he said.

'(The horse) jumped and my mouth was open when he came down and it closed my mouth and just it was a lot of pain and I haven't been able to eat solid food for a little while. So it's been a little bit tough..."
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 04:06 AM) *
QUOTE (jaskanski @ Nov 9 2008, 12:47 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!


I couldn't disagree more. The whole point of professional golf is to conform to a reasonable standard of etiquette. It is the professional golfers responsibility to set an example for others to follow, regardless of their own emotions sometimes. Who wants to see someone losing his cool and getting DQed every week? Not me - and certainly not his sponsors either.
What AK does when he is OFF the course is a different matter - but is still open to public scrutiny. I don't have a problem with "do what you feel like", but when in the media spotlight - he should act appropriately.


I understand the etiquette and how it's intertwined and a part of the rules of golf. I also grant the fact that his sponsors may have contractual agreements that he behave to a certain standard. Having said this, the problem I have is not of AK banging sprinkler heads, or cursing at himself, or whatever. The problem is those that place judgment on players only trying to be themselves.

Let people be. As long as it's not physically harming others. There's just too many "thou shall attempt to project the right type of image" rules in life.

"Watch your thoughts; They become words. Watch your words; They become deeds. Watch your deeds; They become habits. Watch your habits; They become character. Character is everything."

I'll point out that Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Adolf Hitler, the school yard bully, George Bush and my 1st wife were all "trying to be themselves." Being yourself isn't an excuse for boorish or unacceptable behavior and people are, and should be, judged by their actions.

Having said all of that, I didn't see Kim's actions but a simple smack on the ground is not a big deal. It is hardly a temper tantrum. I suspect this has been blown out of proportion due to the fact he got DQ'd. In any case, I won't comment on Kim directly since I didn't see the incident.

Just remember kids, Cro Magnon behavior is so last epoch.
birdieputt
So that's what happened to him. I was looking at the live leaderboard this morning and i was like "Where the hell is AK?". Was fun watching the highlights of round 2, he was so up and down but still had a huge grin on his face. Legend.
flubbed_it
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!

What ?????????

Kim is a bit young for his age, he was a little immature at the ryder cup and there are a few other examples people have mentioned. We all go through this phase although Kim is doing it a bit late. Doing silly and impetuous things is something we have all done. Who hasn't lost it briefly on a course ? The caddy should have been strong enough to tell him to take a deep breath and intervened before he drove off with an altered club. If anyone deserves criticism, it's him.

Kim will be feeling a bit silly and learned from it.
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (flubbed_it @ Nov 9 2008, 08:11 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!

What ?????????

Kim is a bit young for his age, he was a little immature at the ryder cup and there are a few other examples people have mentioned. We all go through this phase although Kim is doing it a bit late. Doing silly and impetuous things is something we have all done. Who hasn't lost it briefly on a course ? The caddy should have been strong enough to tell him to take a deep breath and intervened before he drove off with an altered club. If anyone deserves criticism, it's him.

Kim will be feeling a bit silly and won't forget it.

The caddy isn't responsible, Kim is. Kim is the only one who chose to damage the club he is the only one who chose to play the club and he is the one who got DQ'd.

Why is everything that occurs always someone else's fault? Good Lord people, be responsible! Whatever else may b e said about this incident, the criticism and responsibility are Kim's and Kim's alone.
rybo
Does anybody know what happen to the driver to make it non-conforming?

I'm thinking the damage would have to be somewhat significant to get DQ'd.
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (rybo @ Nov 9 2008, 08:23 AM) *
Does anybody know what happen to the driver to make it non-conforming?

I'm thinking the damage would have to be somewhat significant to get DQ'd.

Actually, the driver may still have been conforming. The rule is if you change the characteristics during play the club must be taken out of play, regardless of whether or not it still conforms. If the hit put a dent in the head, altered the loft or lie even part of a degree or any other characteristic (other than cosmetic) was changed, the rule is invoked.

My question, is, how do they know it was changed? Was it damaged badly enough that the alteration was visible at a distance? Did someone ask to see the driver after the round - like another player? Do they still randomly test the drivers? Did Kim turn himself in (which would speak volumes about his character)?

[edit:]

Also interesting, if the damage occurred during regular play, the club may be replaced if play is not slowed. When Tiger bent his shaft hitting behind a tree, had a replacement been available he could have switched out the club for a new one.

Kim's act wasn't normal play, so the club is now illegal and may not be replaced.
flubbed_it
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 01:22 PM) *
QUOTE (flubbed_it @ Nov 9 2008, 08:11 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!

What ?????????

Kim is a bit young for his age, he was a little immature at the ryder cup and there are a few other examples people have mentioned. We all go through this phase although Kim is doing it a bit late. Doing silly and impetuous things is something we have all done. Who hasn't lost it briefly on a course ? The caddy should have been strong enough to tell him to take a deep breath and intervened before he drove off with an altered club. If anyone deserves criticism, it's him.

Kim will be feeling a bit silly and won't forget it.

Good Lord people, be responsible! Whatever else may b e said about this incident, the criticism and responsibility are Kim's and Kim's alone.

"Glory be and save us Headonastick",

a good caddy will intervene in any situation that benefits the player. Of course it is Kim's responsibility but i've seen williams step in and change a club just as woods was about to pull the trigger. Advise on just about every situation during play.

A good caddy would have told him he was making a mistake.
DLiver
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 08:29 AM) *
My question, is, how do they know it was changed? Was it damaged badly enough that the alteration was visible at a distance? Did someone ask to see the driver after the round - like another player? Do they still randomly test the drivers? Did Kim turn himself in (which would speak volumes about his character)?


I'm guessing that the change to the head was small enough that he or his caddy didn't notice it until later.

BTW, I loved your post where you managed to link Hitler and your ex-wife. I think you have a future in politics! LOL
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (flubbed_it @ Nov 9 2008, 08:38 AM) *
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 01:22 PM) *
QUOTE (flubbed_it @ Nov 9 2008, 08:11 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!

What ?????????

Kim is a bit young for his age, he was a little immature at the ryder cup and there are a few other examples people have mentioned. We all go through this phase although Kim is doing it a bit late. Doing silly and impetuous things is something we have all done. Who hasn't lost it briefly on a course ? The caddy should have been strong enough to tell him to take a deep breath and intervened before he drove off with an altered club. If anyone deserves criticism, it's him.

Kim will be feeling a bit silly and won't forget it.

Good Lord people, be responsible! Whatever else may be said about this incident, the criticism and responsibility are Kim's and Kim's alone.

"Glory be and save us Headonastick",

a good caddy will intervene in any situation that benefits the player. Of course it is Kim's responsibility but i've seen williams step in and change a club just as woods was about to pull the trigger. Advise on just about every situation during play.

A good caddy would have told him he was making a mistake.

Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. It doesn't matter.

In the end, it was Kim's actions that led to his DQ and nobody else's. Period. Dress it up anyway you want, in the end, that's where the criticism is deserved, if it is deserved anywhere.

Regardless, the responsibility is still Kim's and Kim's alone. Making excuses is crap, and also says something about character. That's why we live in the most litigious society on the planet - someone else is always responsible for what happens to us. Unless its good of course, then it is all us.

rolleyes.gif

[edit:]

PS: I'm not saving anyone, I'm a Libertarian. I just want everyone to shut up when they f*** up and take care of their business without blaming anyone or involving me.
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (DLiver @ Nov 9 2008, 08:40 AM) *
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 08:29 AM) *
My question, is, how do they know it was changed? Was it damaged badly enough that the alteration was visible at a distance? Did someone ask to see the driver after the round - like another player? Do they still randomly test the drivers? Did Kim turn himself in (which would speak volumes about his character)?


I'm guessing that the change to the head was small enough that he or his caddy didn't notice it until later.

BTW, I loved your post where you managed to link Hitler and your ex-wife. I think you have a future in politics! LOL

If that is true and Kim later turned himself in, that speaks way more about his character than any momentary club smack.

No politics for me - too many skeletons. I just like stirring the pot biggrin.gif
flubbed_it
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 01:45 PM) *
Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. It doesn't matter.

In the end, it was Kim's actions that led to his DQ and nobody else's. Period. Dress it up anyway you want, in the end, that's where the criticism is deserved, if it is deserved anywhere.

Regardless, the responsibility is still Kim's and Kim's alone. Making excuses is crap, and also says something about character. That's why we live in the most litigious society on the planet - someone else is always responsible for what happens to us. Unless its good of course, then it is all us.

rolleyes.gif

I agree with you entirely about the compensation and litigous culture etc and It is Kim's fault and ultimate responsibility. I made the point that in the middle of a tournament, a dozen things on your mind not to mention the pressure. A good caddy would have stepped in. He deserves criticism for not doing so. The player is responsible but has to do all the difficult stuff, it is not unreasonable to expect your caddy to be paying attention. If you caddied for a living would you not bother to familiarise yourself with the rules ?

It is entirely possible that the caddy didn't see the damage but when the player hands the club to the caddy, what does he do ?

cleans and checks the club.

I agree with you 100% about people taking responsibility, the caddy didn't and should have stepped in. Being a professional caddy is a lucrative career and the reason that there are good ones and bad ones is that there is more to it than carrying clubs and handing out the apples.
tjy355
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 01:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!


I have no idea what you just said.
mat562
The Roberto de Vicenzo line would perhaps be appropriate:

'What a stupid I am..'
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (flubbed_it @ Nov 9 2008, 09:01 AM) *
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 01:45 PM) *
Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. It doesn't matter.

In the end, it was Kim's actions that led to his DQ and nobody else's. Period. Dress it up anyway you want, in the end, that's where the criticism is deserved, if it is deserved anywhere.

Regardless, the responsibility is still Kim's and Kim's alone. Making excuses is crap, and also says something about character. That's why we live in the most litigious society on the planet - someone else is always responsible for what happens to us. Unless its good of course, then it is all us.

rolleyes.gif

I agree with you entirely about the compensation and litigous culture etc and It is Kim's fault and ultimate responsibility. I made the point that in the middle of a tournament, a dozen things on your mind not to mention the pressure. A good caddy would have stepped in. He deserves criticism for not doing so. The player is responsible but has to do all the difficult stuff, it is not unreasonable to expect your caddy to be paying attention. If you caddied for a living would you not bother to familiarise yourself with the rules ?

It is entirely possible that the caddy didn't see the damage but when the player hands the club to the caddy, what does he do ?

cleans and checks the club.

I agree with you 100% about people taking responsibility, the caddy didn't and should have stepped in.

Well, in fairness, I see your point, and it is not unreasonable for a player to expect certain things from his caddy, although the player makes a whole lot more than the caddy for a reason.

Let's let this go... we probably agree more than we disagree smile.gif

Besides before I say anything else, I'm still waiting to see what the damage was, how noticeable the damage was, who noticed the damage, etc.
HeadonaStick
We might all want to read a bit before anyone says anything else...

The Story

Same story-slightly different commentary

Enjoy biggrin.gif

Kim turned himself in, the caddy didn't really get a look at the club, and Kim wasn't even angry, nor is he angry or disgruntled about the DQ. Sounds fine to me.


flubbed_it
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 02:18 PM) *
Besides before I say anything else, I'm still waiting to see what the damage was, how noticeable the damage was, who noticed the damage, etc.

I am reminded of the Woosnam situation at the open where he was trying drivers in the range, chose one and on the second I think, he noticed he had an extra driver in the bag.

I remember opinion being quite split at the time. Woosnam had a go at him on the Tee saying that he gave him a job to do and he couldn't do it but accepted his half of the responsibility afterwards.

Interesting.
flubbed_it
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 02:26 PM) *
We might all want to read a bit before anyone says anything else...

The Story

Same story-slightly different commentary

Enjoy biggrin.gif

Kim turned himself in, the caddy didn't really get a look at the club, and Kim wasn't even angry, nor is he angry or disgruntled about the DQ. Sounds fine to me.

Yes I can see how that happened, a fly landed on my 905 and now it's got a huge dent in it. I just wish they would make them out of something stronger than tin foil.
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (flubbed_it @ Nov 9 2008, 09:30 AM) *
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 02:26 PM) *
We might all want to read a bit before anyone says anything else...

The Story

Same story-slightly different commentary

Enjoy biggrin.gif

Kim turned himself in, the caddy didn't really get a look at the club, and Kim wasn't even angry, nor is he angry or disgruntled about the DQ. Sounds fine to me.

Yes I can see how that happened, a fly landed on my 905 and now it's got a huge dent in it. I just wish they would make them out of something stronger than tin foil.

I suspect it would take a pretty good whack to actually damage the head, although if you've ever seen a modern driver cut, it is amazing how thin the walls are. Like paper thin. I'm amazed the heads don't implode putting on the cover...

Anyway, it really seems like a non-issue at this point. Too bad - I'm enjoying watching Kim play. He is probably going to be in a position to go toe to toe with Tiger next year - Tiger's absence has allowed players to win and gain confidence. Time will tell but I think it will be interesting when Tiger returns - especially if he doesn't smack down some players out of the gate.

And yes, before anyone goes crazy on me, I know Tiger is Tiger and nobody is on his level - yet. I just think some interesting things are aligning themselves for next year, but only time will tell.
golfernut78
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 08:26 AM) *
We might all want to read a bit before anyone says anything else...

The Story

Same story-slightly different commentary

Enjoy biggrin.gif

Kim turned himself in, the caddy didn't really get a look at the club, and Kim wasn't even angry, nor is he angry or disgruntled about the DQ. Sounds fine to me.


so, as i read the article, i sounds like he tapped a sprinkler head - not hard or anything - and the driver performed like $h!t after that. could he have in fact damaged the club on the previous swing and just happened to only notice something different after he tapped the sprinkler head? just saying. i can't imagine damaging a driver just from tapping a sprinkler head.
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (golfernut78 @ Nov 9 2008, 09:37 AM) *
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 08:26 AM) *
We might all want to read a bit before anyone says anything else...

The Story

Same story-slightly different commentary

Enjoy biggrin.gif

Kim turned himself in, the caddy didn't really get a look at the club, and Kim wasn't even angry, nor is he angry or disgruntled about the DQ. Sounds fine to me.


so, as i read the article, i sounds like he tapped a sprinkler head - not hard or anything - and the driver performed like $h!t after that. could he have in fact damaged the club on the previous swing and just happened to only notice something different after he tapped the sprinkler head? just saying. i can't imagine damaging a driver just from tapping a sprinkler head.

Good question.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet Kim is positive he damaged it on the fairway. If he damaged it on the previous drive, I'm not sure he'd have been DQ'd because the rule is different for a club damaged in the course of play.

He may have caught it just right and dented it. I just don't know and I can't find anything more specific about the damage to the club. Sorry.
flubbed_it
Stupid rule, he didn't gain anything from breaking his own club or gently glancing it off a sprinkler head in the most innocent and dainty way.

The tournament is worse off for it even if he was sliding down the leader board.

P.s and a bad day for caddies everywhere
NPVWhiz
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 04:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!



It's a non-issue, except for the small detail that he doesn't get a check (unless his behavior is enabled by the Euro Tour's appearance money, in which case life is great when you get paid no matter what).

Thank goodness I don't have to "waste" my life in a world where I'm surrounded by the childishly unrestrained, like Rory, Kaye, and his young replacement Levin. In a weird way, I get some sense of reassurance....not satisfaction...out of seeing the unrestrained and emotionally unchecked parts of certain PGA Tour players impact their world ranking. It reassures me that good behavior means more in this world than being yourself. Believe it or not, there are a ton of PGA Tour players who can be themselves...and behave like gentlemen, because they are gentlemen in the most fundamental sense of the word.

But let's be realistic about AK. The history of the tour is littered with the dregs of the emotionally unrestrained. Wadkins, Strange, Austin. With AK, you read the interviews where he talks the walk. No one is ever convinced by the talk. It's the walk that matters. Nicklaus was a gentleman. He walked the walk, and never had to talk it up. Edited for the initials...
imsocrabby
who is JK?


epixep
QUOTE (Rollshisrock @ Nov 9 2008, 04:06 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:06 PM) *
QUOTE (jaskanski @ Nov 9 2008, 12:47 AM) *
QUOTE (Furrankee @ Nov 9 2008, 08:32 AM) *
His hitting the driver onto a sprinkler head is a non-issue. Altering the face which got him DQ'd is a non-issue. AK will move on. Life goes on. But people in the golf world treat it as an incident that justifies judging someone's character. This is why golf has no appeal. He doesn't need character management. His actions are not due to his youth. He's just being himself and that's all that matters. Conforming to some golfing etiquette standard is ridiculous. It does an extreme disservice to yourself. Imagine living your golf under golf-like rules. What a waste of a life!


I couldn't disagree more. The whole point of professional golf is to conform to a reasonable standard of etiquette. It is the professional golfers responsibility to set an example for others to follow, regardless of their own emotions sometimes. Who wants to see someone losing his cool and getting DQed every week? Not me - and certainly not his sponsors either.
What AK does when he is OFF the course is a different matter - but is still open to public scrutiny. I don't have a problem with "do what you feel like", but when in the media spotlight - he should act appropriately.


I understand the etiquette and how it's intertwined and a part of the rules of golf. I also grant the fact that his sponsors may have contractual agreements that he behave to a certain standard. Having said this, the problem I have is not of AK banging sprinkler heads, or cursing at himself, or whatever. The problem is those that place judgment on players only trying to be themselves.

Let people be. As long as it's not physically harming others. There's just too many "thou shall attempt to project the right type of image" rules in life.


What ever planet your from they obviously dont play golf!!!! If you dont like the rules go play a game where yobbish behaviour is tolerated!!! Granted a few of the rules are a little silly but most of us they play the game play it exactly for that reason. They are the rules,follow them,if not on your bike!!

And this may be a stab in the dark but these comments sound like they have come from somebody who has had trouble with the rules of golf and is now extremely bitter!! smile.gif Just my opinion though!!!!


You play the game of golf because of the rules? Or because you like the pretentious bullxxxx attitude that most golfers have? Or you like golf because of the proper and professional way people act in it?

That's a horrible reason to enjoy golf, in fact, those are probably the worst parts of the game. I understand golf has tradition and etiquette, but the way golfers are and demand other players to be is only hurting the game. When Tiger came around and made golf "cool", young players saw golf less as an uptight, gentleman's game and more as an opportunity to have fun.

Golf should be about learning lessons that can furthermore help you in your life, and enjoying yourself out on the course.

"The whole point of professional golf is to conform to a reasonable standard of etiquette. It is the professional golfers responsibility to set an example for others to follow, regardless of their own emotions sometimes."

What in the world are you talking about? The whole point of professional golf is to make money, pure and simple. All the other bullxxxx that is fed to the old timers is just that, bullxxxx. It is NOT a pro's responsibility to set an example for others to follow. Maybe you can think that it is, but that's your own opinion. That isn't apart of the rules. You are allowed to throw clubs, allowed to scream and curse and even hit your caddie. Have you ever followed a group full of pro golf stars? Parents would not teach their children to behave in such a manners. It is a professional golfer's responsibility to make a living for him or herself.
justaman5
QUOTE (imsocrabby @ Nov 9 2008, 12:10 PM) *
who is JK?



How old are you????
Tenementrock
This thread and this incident have me wondering about the rule - why does it exist, ie how could someone possibly alter their club during the course of a round in a way that could be advantageous?
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (Tenementrock @ Nov 9 2008, 11:40 AM) *
This thread and this incident have me wondering about the rule - why does it exist, ie how could someone possibly alter their club during the course of a round in a way that could be advantageous?

Start with the r7 and go from there.
Tenementrock
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 12:44 PM) *
QUOTE (Tenementrock @ Nov 9 2008, 11:40 AM) *
This thread and this incident have me wondering about the rule - why does it exist, ie how could someone possibly alter their club during the course of a round in a way that could be advantageous?

Start with the r7 and go from there.


But didn't the rule exist before all this adjustable weight technology came about?
imsocrabby
QUOTE (justaman5 @ Nov 9 2008, 10:34 AM) *
QUOTE (imsocrabby @ Nov 9 2008, 12:10 PM) *
who is JK?



How old are you????



pretty old.
flubbed_it
QUOTE (epixep @ Nov 9 2008, 04:32 PM) *
You play the game of golf because of the rules? Or because you like the pretentious bullxxxx attitude that most golfers have?

Hey angry young man, is there anything you would like to share with us ? it might help to talk about it.
QUOTE (epixep @ Nov 9 2008, 04:32 PM) *
I understand golf has tradition and etiquette, but the way golfers are and demand other players to be is only hurting the game.

I think you'll find your on your own on that one. Golf prides itself on being a game of ladies and gentleman, that means many things but it doesn't make any demands on you beyond behaving in a respectful and sportsmanlike manner. Which if your a decent person you should take pride in doing.
QUOTE (epixep @ Nov 9 2008, 04:32 PM) *
When Tiger came around and made golf "cool", young players saw golf less as an uptight, gentleman's game and more as an opportunity to have fun.

I think you'll find that Woods is amongst the most gentlemanly contemporary players in the game.
QUOTE (epixep @ Nov 9 2008, 04:32 PM) *
It is NOT a pro's responsibility to set an example for others to follow. Maybe you can think that it is, but that's your own opinion. That isn't apart of the rules. You are allowed to throw clubs, allowed to scream and curse and even hit your caddie.

Actually it is. Most pro's take a pride in themselves and are aware of the young audience watching. There are exceptions and we all momentarily vent our frustrations but hitting your caddie ? why don't you think before posting such nonsense.
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (Tenementrock @ Nov 9 2008, 11:47 AM) *
QUOTE (HeadonaStick @ Nov 9 2008, 12:44 PM) *
QUOTE (Tenementrock @ Nov 9 2008, 11:40 AM) *
This thread and this incident have me wondering about the rule - why does it exist, ie how could someone possibly alter their club during the course of a round in a way that could be advantageous?

Start with the r7 and go from there.


But didn't the rule exist before all this adjustable weight technology came about?

No.

Adjustable heads have been around for some time before TM and the r7. TM just made it modern and popular.

However, I suspect the rule was originally put into place to prevent players from twisting heads to gain a loft advantage or adjusting shaft length to suit a particular swing flaw on any given day, applying lead tape, removing lead tape etc.

Then again, it may have just been put into place as a punitive measure against temper tantrums since a club damaged in normal play is replaceable.

I wasn't there, so I'm just guessing.
flubbed_it
QUOTE (Tenementrock @ Nov 9 2008, 04:40 PM) *
This thread and this incident have me wondering about the rule - why does it exist, ie how could someone possibly alter their club during the course of a round in a way that could be advantageous?

Sandy Lyle once lead a tournament and had a chrome putter that was reflecting the sun in to his eyes. He took a plaster from his finger and placed it on the top of the putter, which he honestly thought was cool. Faldo complained to the official and he was deemed to have altered his club.

- and Lyle was DQ'd
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (flubbed_it @ Nov 9 2008, 11:59 AM) *
QUOTE (Tenementrock @ Nov 9 2008, 04:40 PM) *
This thread and this incident have me wondering about the rule - why does it exist, ie how could someone possibly alter their club during the course of a round in a way that could be advantageous?

Sandy Lyle once lead a tournament and had a chrome putter that was reflecting the sun in to his eyes. He took a plaster from his finger and placed it on the top of the putter, which he honestly thought was cool. Faldo complained to the official and he was deemed to have altered his club.

- and was DQ'd

And the really interesting thing about that incident is that had he put the tape on prior to the start of the round, it would have been perfectly legal.

It also prevent lead tape from being applied or removed during the round, wiping mud on the top line to reduce glare etc. If some tape falls off, you may replace it or you have to remove the club from play.
Mr.B
QUOTE (epixep @ Nov 9 2008, 11:32 AM) *
What in the world are you talking about? The whole point of professional golf is to make money, pure and simple. All the other bullxxxx that is fed to the old timers is just that, bullxxxx. It is NOT a pro's responsibility to set an example for others to follow. Maybe you can think that it is, but that's your own opinion. That isn't apart of the rules. You are allowed to throw clubs, allowed to scream and curse and even hit your caddie. Have you ever followed a group full of pro golf stars? Parents would not teach their children to behave in such a manners. It is a professional golfer's responsibility to make a living for him or herself.


I cetainly hope you're not involved with the teaching or guidance of our youth and the future of golf.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS a pro-golfers responsibility to set an example.

As a professional golfer you are setting an example in your every word and action that our kids see and emulate. You are an ambassador for the game/sport as a whole, not to mention your country on the world stage and if that's not enough to make you think about how YOUR behavior can affect others you are just naive and ignorant. einstein.gif

Why do think the pro's are fined $25,000 for dropping an f-bomb. Because it is UNACCEPTABLE behavior. By the way you CAN be penalised and fined for hitting your caddy, especially if you are a club tosser.

Of course it is their responsibility to make money, it's their chosen vocation. That's no argument for unsportsmanlike conduct. They're there voluntarily and that INCLUDES agreement with the rules of golf and the etiquette responsibilities that goes along with it.

I am thankful that the self-involved, entitlement, heads-up-their-arses attitudes like what you have written here are actually the minority. bad.gif

Have a nice day smile.gif
Muteki
People are blowing this whole incident out of proportion and making false assumptions about how he "altered" his driver. Thank you Headonastick for posting links to the article. He wasn't angry and slammed his club into the ground; he broke it on a sprinkler head walking down the fairway. I highly doubt there is a character issue involved here because he had the chance to lie and said his club was not altered or that it was damaged during his last swing with it... The judge had asked him if he altered his club on a sprinkler head. He DQ'ed himself by admitting so.

My only issue is that he may have known he damaged his club. He admitted he looked down and it looked a little different, but he teed off with it on the next hole. I'm thinking it may have been wishful thinking. I know if I was in a tournament and I just accidently broke my driver, I would hope that I really didn't... Hitting the tee shot way OB and only about 150 yards would be a good indication that the club was damaged though. fool.gif
marker
If you hit a drive and a stone chip appears on the club face,do you then have to take the club out of your bag?
Taken to the extreme, every club in the bag changes slightly with every shot.
It's called wear and tear.(sp?)
He did not deliberately alter the club to his advantage so DQ seems wrong to me.
I realy hope he shrugs this off.
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