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HCEG1
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim
rjw3715
Good Stuff. European tour keeps growing and growing.
jzatl04
Seems like a no-brainer for these guys. They've only got to play six tournaments outside the U.S. (three WGC events and three U.S.-based majors count towards ET membership), one of them being the Open Championship, and they can take care of one or two of those obligations during the PGA Tour offseason. They essentially are replacing their silly-season/offseason/do-nothing-season with an opportunity to hone their games against the best players in the world (sans Tiger) and haul in some serious cash.
KTS1010
What place do you have to be in on the European Tour money list to qualify for the "Race to Dubai".
frozen_rope
They like the appearance fee money.
Unfortunately, this degrades the quality of the field, the quality of the tournament, and the game itself.

QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim

Pax
QUOTE (KTS1010 @ Oct 30 2008, 03:26 AM) *
What place do you have to be in on the European Tour money list to qualify for the "Race to Dubai".


The players have to play at least 12 tournaments to be member of the ET, and at least 2 in Europe. Fot the best players, it won't be difficult to reach this number taking into account the majors and the WGC.
HCEG1
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 03:59 AM) *
They like the appearance fee money.
Unfortunately, this degrades the quality of the field, the quality of the tournament, and the game itself.
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim



Please explain.

The quality of the field in some of the European events is far higher and carries more OWGR points and ever-increasing higher prize money than a lot of run of the mill PGA events.

Tiger will aslo sign up to join the Euro tour. He was the first to express his interest. He won't do it this season because of the injury, but he'll be joining the new global jet-setters soon. He's already almost there with his Majors, WGC events and the Dubai Desert Classic

Things have changed; the European, or 'Golbal' tour will very soon eclipse the PGA tour
HCEG1
QUOTE (KTS1010 @ Oct 30 2008, 03:26 AM) *
What place do you have to be in on the European Tour money list to qualify for the "Race to Dubai".


Top 60
nickGT
I think this Race To Dubai is great for the tour. Its spiced it up alot and getting alot of PGA tour regulars to mix up there schedules a bit!
charlesdupuy
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 30 2008, 09:53 AM) *
QUOTE (KTS1010 @ Oct 30 2008, 03:26 AM) *
What place do you have to be in on the European Tour money list to qualify for the "Race to Dubai".


Top 60



If the guys we're talking about have a half decent season then reaching that place in the Order of Merit should just be a bi-product, most of the Euro Tour only guys who normally finish outside the top 60 don't get to play in the US majors and WGC events where the big money is on offer, the likes of Phil and Scott should be able to leap frog them by just playing the minimum number of events.
HCEG1
QUOTE (charlesdupuy @ Oct 30 2008, 11:23 AM) *
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 30 2008, 09:53 AM) *
QUOTE (KTS1010 @ Oct 30 2008, 03:26 AM) *
What place do you have to be in on the European Tour money list to qualify for the "Race to Dubai".


Top 60



If the guys we're talking about have a half decent season then reaching that place in the Order of Merit should just be a bi-product, most of the Euro Tour only guys who normally finish outside the top 60 don't get to play in the US majors and WGC events where the big money is on offer, the likes of Phil and Scott should be able to leap frog them by just playing the minimum number of events.


In theory, but if we look at the current OOM, we see players who have played in Majors and WGC events who are not in the top 60. Campbell, Bjorn, Fasth, Jacquelin, Jaidee, Edfors, etc.. The bar has now been raised on the European tour and we will see players digging deeper and fighting harder to get high finishes throghout the year. It also gives the Euro guys the chance to perform on the same stage as Mickelson, Kim, Garcia, Villegas, Scott, Allenby, VJ & co, resulting in a higher calibre European tour going forward.
AirTime23
On a side note...the European Tour will be changing their name, logo and corporate image to the "European International Tour" and some blueish color scheme probably next week after the Volvo Masters concludes the 2008 season.
This is per info by the world feed commentary of today's Volvo Masters coverage.
mat562
Good to hear that the European Tour will be attracting some of the big names. It augurs well for the future of the Tour and can only make for better viewing for fans everywhere with more of the very best players playing head to head more frequently. It's not really as much of a coup as some of the press are making it - given that what it really amounts to is several of the bigger U.S-based names committing to three or four additional tournaments, predominantly towards the end of the season. That said, it's exciting news and to be welcomed.

As regards the name change, it's certainly a good move to go with a modified monicker that tips a nod to the increasingly international nature of the Tour given that it's now very much outgrown Europe alone. Personally, I think a return to a major named sponsor (as was the case back in the days of the 'Volvo Tour') would be good move; albeit in these shaky financial times there's probably a dearth of companies willing to make such an investment.
HCEG1
QUOTE (mat562 @ Oct 30 2008, 11:27 PM) *
Good to hear that the European Tour will be attracting some of the big names. It augurs well for the future of the Tour and can only make for better viewing for fans everywhere with more of the very best players playing head to head more frequently. It's not really as much of a coup as some of the press are making it - given that what it really amounts to is several of the bigger U.S-based names committing to three or four additional tournaments, predominantly towards the end of the season. That said, it's exciting news and to be welcomed.

As regards the name change, it's certainly a good move to go with a modified monicker that tips a nod to the increasingly international nature of the Tour given that it's now very much outgrown Europe alone. Personally, I think a return to a major named sponsor (as was the case back in the days of the 'Volvo Tour') would be good move; albeit in these shaky financial times there's probably a dearth of companies willing to make such an investment.


Leisurecorp (out of Dubai) is funding a massive part of it.

What I don't like is Harry Vardon being chosen as the player/ logo for the Race to Dubai. Surely Seve would have been more appropriate given what he's done for the European tour and his current situation.....?
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 29 2008, 10:59 PM) *
They like the appearance fee money.
Unfortunately, this degrades the quality of the field, the quality of the tournament, and the game itself.

QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim


Yes, getting the best players in the world to play on your tour certainly degrades the quality of the field and tournament.

I'm also pretty sure the game is unconcerned with how much money players are being paid to play - I suppose the game would be happier if they all played for free...
mat562
I'd agree with that. Given that the current European Tour is a modern invention, and that Seve was instrumental in raising it's profile - and that of European golf as a whole - I think it would have been a fitting tribute to the great man, and all the more poignant given his current battle, to have had his image included in some way - whether in the Race to Dubai logo or in any official Tour logo. Even if the logo was typically ambiguous as per the PGA Tour logo, a nod to Seve in its design would be more than appropriate in my opinion given his success and support for the Tour.



SpinMill75
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 30 2008, 01:51 AM) *
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 03:59 AM) *
They like the appearance fee money.
Unfortunately, this degrades the quality of the field, the quality of the tournament, and the game itself.
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim



Please explain.

The quality of the field in some of the European events is far higher and carries more OWGR points and ever-increasing higher prize money than a lot of run of the mill PGA events.

Tiger will aslo sign up to join the Euro tour. He was the first to express his interest. He won't do it this season because of the injury, but he'll be joining the new global jet-setters soon. He's already almost there with his Majors, WGC events and the Dubai Desert Classic

Things have changed; the European, or 'Golbal' tour will very soon eclipse the PGA tour


I agree! The quality of a European is fantastic! It is totally naive to think that the PGA is the only Tour worth watching. As golfers, we should all be excited that our sport is growing in every corner of the world regardless of which Tour we're talking about.
frozen_rope
Appearance fee money causes problems.

The event's prize fund is reduced because money is instead allocated towards a select few players who receive an appearance fee.
Consequently, the quality of the depth of the field suffers.
Also, player's receiving an appearance fee (guaranteed money), have diminished incentive to produce a high placed finish.
In general, appearance fee money creates an exhibition rather than a true tournament competition.







QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 30 2008, 03:51 AM) *
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 03:59 AM) *
They like the appearance fee money.
Unfortunately, this degrades the quality of the field, the quality of the tournament, and the game itself.
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim



Please explain.

The quality of the field in some of the European events is far higher and carries more OWGR points and ever-increasing higher prize money than a lot of run of the mill PGA events.

Tiger will aslo sign up to join the Euro tour. He was the first to express his interest. He won't do it this season because of the injury, but he'll be joining the new global jet-setters soon. He's already almost there with his Majors, WGC events and the Dubai Desert Classic

Things have changed; the European, or 'Golbal' tour will very soon eclipse the PGA tour

headz51230
Sweet more quality golf to watch over the winter.
AUDuffer
You mean the way Tiger, Chris DiMarco, and Mark O'Meara have slepwalked through the Dubai tourney in the past?

QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 06:04 PM) *
Appearance fee money causes problems.

The event's prize fund is reduced because money is instead allocated towards a select few players who receive an appearance fee.
Consequently, the quality of the depth of the field suffers.
Also, player's receiving an appearance fee (guaranteed money), have diminished incentive to produce a high placed finish.
In general, appearance fee money creates an exhibition rather than a true tournament competition.







QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 30 2008, 03:51 AM) *
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 03:59 AM) *
They like the appearance fee money.
Unfortunately, this degrades the quality of the field, the quality of the tournament, and the game itself.
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim



Please explain.

The quality of the field in some of the European events is far higher and carries more OWGR points and ever-increasing higher prize money than a lot of run of the mill PGA events.

Tiger will aslo sign up to join the Euro tour. He was the first to express his interest. He won't do it this season because of the injury, but he'll be joining the new global jet-setters soon. He's already almost there with his Majors, WGC events and the Dubai Desert Classic

Things have changed; the European, or 'Golbal' tour will very soon eclipse the PGA tour


HCEG1
QUOTE (AUDuffer @ Oct 31 2008, 02:07 PM) *
You mean the way Tiger, Chris DiMarco, and Mark O'Meara have slepwalked through the Dubai tourney in the past?
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 06:04 PM) *
Appearance fee money causes problems.

The event's prize fund is reduced because money is instead allocated towards a select few players who receive an appearance fee.
Consequently, the quality of the depth of the field suffers.
Also, player's receiving an appearance fee (guaranteed money), have diminished incentive to produce a high placed finish.
In general, appearance fee money creates an exhibition rather than a true tournament competition.







QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 30 2008, 03:51 AM) *
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 03:59 AM) *
They like the appearance fee money.
Unfortunately, this degrades the quality of the field, the quality of the tournament, and the game itself.
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim



Please explain.

The quality of the field in some of the European events is far higher and carries more OWGR points and ever-increasing higher prize money than a lot of run of the mill PGA events.

Tiger will aslo sign up to join the Euro tour. He was the first to express his interest. He won't do it this season because of the injury, but he'll be joining the new global jet-setters soon. He's already almost there with his Majors, WGC events and the Dubai Desert Classic

Things have changed; the European, or 'Golbal' tour will very soon eclipse the PGA tour






Tiger wasn't sleep-walking when he yelled and fist-pumped his way to the narrowest of victories over Ernie this year for only his 2nd victory in many attempts. He famously lost out to Bjorn, Stenson and Els in previous years in the kind of high-drama loved by the fans, which will be repeated many times on the new European tour in the coming months/years. If Tiger does in fact sleep-walk, it's in the run of the mill, humdrum lesser events on the pga tour

DiMarco has never played in Dubai
thenextnumber1
Dimarco won in Dubai last year or the year before actually lol.
HCEG1
QUOTE (thenextnumber1 @ Oct 31 2008, 06:59 PM) *
Dimarco won in Dubai last year or the year before actually lol.


I'll say it agan. DiMarco has never played in Dubai

He won in Abu Dhabi, LOL. Different event, different course, different Emirate. tongue.gif

How educational the European tour can be. Free geography lessons...............
mat562
DiMarco won in the UAE but it was next door to Dubai - in Abu Dhabi.

Edit: Great minds and all that... biggrin.gif
InTheHole
Ah yes, early morning golf (here in the states).

So, what is the PGA tour going to do to counter this? Revamp the FedEx Cup and make it worth $30 million?

Everyone says the quality of golf is better on the Euro tour- but I'll tell ya, while great, the Ryder Cup certainly proved to me it is no better than the PGA tour. I certainly remember all of the golf analysts spouting how the Euro players were so much better and were going to walk away with it again. Not trying to start a US vs. Euro discussion- I just don't see that they're that much better. Good yes. Great yes. But I think you have a great quaility of golf on both sides of the pond.

If it were so much better, why would they be trying to woo the American players over to Europe with all this money?
BS66
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 05:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim



Good for Kim, I commend him. It's good for the game of golf when the best players are willing to travel and player in these international events. It's a worldwide game and their players support the PGA, why shouldn't American players not support the European Tour.
HeadonaStick
QUOTE (frozen_rope @ Oct 30 2008, 08:04 PM) *
Appearance fee money causes problems.

The event's prize fund is reduced because money is instead allocated towards a select few players who receive an appearance fee.
Consequently, the quality of the depth of the field suffers.
Also, player's receiving an appearance fee (guaranteed money), have diminished incentive to produce a high placed finish.
In general, appearance fee money creates an exhibition rather than a true tournament competition.



I'd counter that top athletes, in any sport, are about more than money when they are on the field of play. You don't get to the upper echelon if there isn't something else driving you.

Many players worth watching want to be in the field when top players play. Otherwise they could play on lesser tours and win money. The money is still better than the Nationwide or working at McDonald's.

Isn't every pro event really an exhibition? They are all there for the money.

Do you have an actual example of when appearance money has caused a problem?

[edit:]

Are all of the players being discussed getting appearance fees for all of the tournaments they are playing in Europe, and are all of the tournaments paying appearance fees?
frozen_rope
US players play Euro and Asian events because they want guaranteed appearance money.
Euro and Asian players play US Tour events because they want to establish their playing credibility.
There is no comparison between the US Tour and the Euro Tour. The US tour holds authentic tournaments, where a player only collects money if he makes the cut and places. The Euro Tour conducts exhibition-like-formats where a select few receive guaranteed appearance fee money.

QUOTE (BS66 @ Nov 1 2008, 03:02 PM) *
QUOTE (HCEG1 @ Oct 29 2008, 05:52 PM) *
No surprise here. Kim is now a paid up member of the European Tour and he'll begin his campaign next week in the HSBC Champions in Shanghai. He'll join Garcia, Scott, Appelby, Singh and almost certainly Mickelson and several other top PGA tour stars wanting a piece of the very lucrative prize money and OWGR points on offer on the hugely revamped Euro tour

The Race to Dubai is on...............!

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2008/10/20081029kim



Good for Kim, I commend him. It's good for the game of golf when the best players are willing to travel and player in these international events. It's a worldwide game and their players support the PGA, why shouldn't American players not support the European Tour.

mat562
Additionally, the Euro Tour also decides the winner by drawing lots on Sunday, presumably.

Sorry, but that's a very blinkered view and shows a complete lack of knowledge or respect for what amounts to the second most prestigious tour in world golf.

frozen_rope
If the Euro Tour wants respect then it should stop paying appearance fee money.
Considering the current appearance fee payouts, a Euro Tour event is little more than a glorified made-for-t.v.-skins game.

QUOTE (mat562 @ Nov 1 2008, 06:02 PM) *
Additionally, the Euro Tour also decides the winner by drawing lots on Sunday, presumably.

Sorry, but that's a very blinkered view and shows a complete lack of knowledge or respect for what amounts to the second most prestigious tour in world golf.

Birdman of Alcatraz
Do they not pay appearance money on the US Tour then. Or does playing in a lesser tournament run by your sponsor not count as appearance money? I'm not sure but I don't think you get appearance money on the Euro tour offically, some clinic type service must be performed first.....

The influence of the UStour will be directly effected by the financial strength of the US economy. As other economies grow, pro golf with migrate slowly towards the money, and it's a natural progression which will happen over many yeasrs so no point getting irrate just yet folks.......
mat562
Generally, the players receive a fee for 'services rendered' (such as a real exhibition match or a clinic) rather than being paid a 'true' appearance fee. I agree, it's a shoddy practice in many ways, but it also does draw some of the bigger names to events where they otherwise would be reluctant to make the journey. Really, if you want to blame anyone, you should be blaming the golfers themselves since they are the ones who generated the practice by greed alone over the years. Nowadays, sadly, it's almost a prerequisite for many tournaments to pay out large sums to the top players to ensure their attendance. Such is the prestige of having a big name in an event, the sponsors are happy to foot the bill. It's not ideal, but it's the way of it, sadly.

To suggest that the practice devalues the tour is something I'd dispute though. I know several european tour players who would argue very strongly against your contention that the tour is a glorified exhibition or that the typical fields are weak. They're not. In years gone by it was very true that the 'rank and file' players on the tour (say from #30 to #100) on the respective rankings were much better players on the PGA Tour compared to their counterparts in Europe. Nowadays the gap has narrowed and the general standard of golf is far better and almost commensurate between the two tours. Because many of the top players are based in the U.S. and primarily play their golf there it is often quite a trek to play an event in the far east or in arabia. Often, sponsors will bend over backwards to attract marquee names to their tounaments and one tactic is the payment of fees for 'marketing services' which, yes, are appearance monies by another name.

The fact that Tiger Woods (for instance) gets some ludicrous fee to put on a clinic and play in the event doesn't devalue the tour or the event though. The remainder of the field are unaffected and, to a man, are out there trying their level best to win or finish as high as possible. Often, the payment of appearance fees are exclusive from the tournament purse and the cash would not ordinarily be sunk into the prize fund anyway - so the players aren't even out of pocket for having Johnny Superstar playing that week. Conversely, if some big names are playing, then the event generates increased interest and funding and thus benefits the players in that the available prize fund is increased markedly; as is the incentive to garner a high finish.

The European Tour has come on leaps and bounds over the last twenty years and has emerged from the shadow of the PGA Tour to be a highly regarded professional golf tour that is certainly the second most prestigious in the world and making strident efforts to improve still further. To suggest that the schedule is little more than a Mickey Mouse outfit is, frankly, an insult to the men and women who have worked hard to make it such a success and to the players - who I can assure you, take things very seriously and are proud to play on the circuit.
willpeoples
i bet you they are getting some big apperance fees as well. Definately makes since for them, not only does it increase their potential for money it increases their following which is great for them...
frozen_rope
The US PGA Tour forbids tournament sponsors from offering appearance money, and players from accepting appearance money.
Now you think you are clever claiming that Tiger playing a Buick sponsored event is taking "appearance money". Actually, Tiger's contract with Buick specifically grants him the right to choose his own playing schedule. He may choose to play 3 Buick events per year, or zero. This is common language for an endorsement contract, because anything else would be appearance money, which is forbidden by the PGA Tour.
The bottom line is that the Euro Tour and Asian tours have always permitted appearance money in an effort to attract name players.
This is why Anthony Kim is going for it, he has appearance offers and wants the cash. Guys before him have done the same thing after a year or two of hot play on the US Tour built them a name. Unfortunately, players get spread too thin and their game suffers.
If the Euro tour wants to claim some integrity and authenticity, then it needs to forbid appearance fee payments.
As far as other economies "growing", mostly the Euro States ride on the coat tails of the USA. Royal bank of Scotland, Barclays UK etc...in the toilet now. So, Euro economies will ride the wave with the US economy, for better or for worse.

QUOTE (Birdman of Alcatraz @ Nov 1 2008, 06:41 PM) *
Do they not pay appearance money on the US Tour then. Or does playing in a lesser tournament run by your sponsor not count as appearance money? I'm not sure but I don't think you get appearance money on the Euro tour offically, some clinic type service must be performed first.....

The influence of the UStour will be directly effected by the financial strength of the US economy. As other economies grow, pro golf with migrate slowly towards the money, and it's a natural progression which will happen over many yeasrs so no point getting irrate just yet folks.......

mat562
Personally, I like to watch televised golf that incorporates the best golfers in the world playing head to head on a more frequent basis. I think the introduction of the WGC events has been a master stroke and I see the expansion and enrichment of the European Tour as being a bonus for golf fans everywhere - particularly if the bigger names can be persuaded to play. If it takes the payment of appearance fees/incentive payments/whatever to make it happen, then I'm perfectly amenable to it.

The emergence of the European Tour as an increasingly successful entity is good news in my book. Not beacause I want to see it overtake the PGA Tour and be able to gloat as a European, but because it provides a lot of entertainment for golf fans, like me, and goes a long way towards furthering the development of and interest in the game. It's a fine tour and something to be very proud of.

The PGA Tour similarly ticks all the boxes and has been the pre-eminent male professional golf tour for decades. It's also something that I watch keenly and take a great deal of interest in. It's right that americans should be proud of the tour - although why there should be any animosity towards other tours is beyond me.

The nature of golf over the last several decades has resulted in a natural 'drift' of the most skilled players to the US. The events are first class, the arrangements and ease of travelling are appealing and the tour is a very lucrative place to earn a living. Naturally, many players also choose to settle in the US and consequently find themselves removed from Europe, Africa and Asia. To attend events in those areas (which in previous years have also offered smaller purses than those in the US) has often necessitated a level of 'encouragement' and the culture of payments to play has developed over the years. Realistically, only a very small number of players receive any payment and the practice is reserved for the very top players and others whom the sponsors feel will add to the event. As I say, it's not ideal, but it's the status quo. With the injection of cash via the Race to Dubai and other lucrative sponsorships it may be something that diminishes in the next few years.

Ultimately, it's a positive step and, for those people who are willing to overlook the shortcomings of the tour and the unmotivated, distinctly average players that make up the fields of those glorified monthly medals, it's another opportunity to see some quality golf and the best players in the world battling it out on a more regular basis.

Take it or leave it, I suppose.
yankees06
Great golf is great golf no matter where they are playing. My only issue is when i watch the TV coverage of the euro tour the announcers are horrible! Dry and boring!!!!! same with the camera work!
Ghost_Orchid
I hope we'll get it in HD in the states.
InTheHole
QUOTE (mat562 @ Nov 1 2008, 09:28 PM) *
Personally, I like to watch televised golf that incorporates the best golfers in the world playing head to head on a more frequent basis. I think the introduction of the WGC events has been a master stroke and I see the expansion and enrichment of the European Tour as being a bonus for golf fans everywhere - particularly if the bigger names can be persuaded to play. If it takes the payment of appearance fees/incentive payments/whatever to make it happen, then I'm perfectly amenable to it.

The emergence of the European Tour as an increasingly successful entity is good news in my book. Not beacause I want to see it overtake the PGA Tour and be able to gloat as a European, but because it provides a lot of entertainment for golf fans, like me, and goes a long way towards furthering the development of and interest in the game. It's a fine tour and something to be very proud of.

The PGA Tour similarly ticks all the boxes and has been the pre-eminent male professional golf tour for decades. It's also something that I watch keenly and take a great deal of interest in. It's right that americans should be proud of the tour - although why there should be any animosity towards other tours is beyond me.


Good points all... right now, it is very easy for PGA golfers to "incorporate" the Euro tour into their schedule and thus qualifying for both tours. So, you'll see a bunch of the better ones doing it. If that ever changes, they may have to pick a tour and stick with it. So right now, you may not see a dilution of talent. But at some point, you may see guys saying, hey- too much travel back and forth across the pond and it is reducing my ability to play well- if I'm going to lose, I can do it just as well in the US as in Europe.

And let's face it, everyone wants to see Tiger vs. Phil, Tiger vs. Sergio, Tiger vs. Harrington, etc., etc. If that doesn't happen each week, I'm sure you'll see incentives to make it happen along the way. Tiger will probably not do the Euro tour in 2009, but if all remains the same and he recovers well from his injury, he'll join the fray in 2010.

I think it is good for golf. If the best players happen to be over in Europe, it means there will be new winners on the PGA tour, and vice versa. That will move guys up the PGA money list.

But here's a lure for you- is it possible to win both the Race to Dubai AND the FedEx Cup? That would be a nice payday...

If the economy improves and the revamped FedEx Cup structure actually happens and works, I think you'll see them match the $20M purse, though.

Animosity? Well, the Ryder Cup and (to a lesser extent) the President's Cup cause a little rivalry- I wouldn't call it animosity. I don't think the US fans dislike or hate the Euro tour. I think the golf media here in the US has said that the Euro players are better than the US players a few times (at least that's what I've seen), but as I said in another post, we just won the Ryder Cup and the last President's Cup, so you can't prove that by me. World golf rankings... well, maybe there are more Euro's in the top 20 (haven't checked lately) but that is hard to compare because they are not all playing the same events. How do you compare a tournament in the US and one in Europe on the same weekend and say they have the same strength of field, or one is worth more points than another... but I don't pretend to completely understand the formula.

It will be an interesting next couple of seasons, to be sure. In the long run, I think the golf fan benefits.
HCEG1
QUOTE (yankees06 @ Nov 2 2008, 04:00 AM) *
Great golf is great golf no matter where they are playing. My only issue is when i watch the TV coverage of the euro tour the announcers are horrible! Dry and boring!!!!! same with the camera work!


Yeah, I'd take 2 minutes of putting, followed by 5 minutes of commercials any day over lots of great golf and the dry humour of Renton Laidlaw, Peter Alliss, Sam Torrance, Mark James, Ewen Murray & co..... wacko.gif
InTheHole
The style of the European announcers is definitely more laid back and less "animated" than the US announcers. That tends to appeal more to the Euro TV watcher than it does in the US.

Hey, it took YEARS for Monty Python to catch on here in the states- and most people still don't get the dry humor (I'm a huge fan of the Pythons for 30 years). But you'll always have differences in taste.

And commercials? Yeah dude- we have WAY too many in the US! TV is now (and has been for awhile) a commercial delivery mechanism- commercials are briefly interrupted with actual programming as a method to just keep the viewer from changing the channel so they can view the next set of commercials. It is getting rediculous.

So you have less in the UK? Hmmmm- I may have to move. Or maybe we should just turn off the idiot box and hit the links...
Viking Golfer
QUOTE (InTheHole @ Oct 31 2008, 08:18 PM) *
Ah yes, early morning golf (here in the states).

So, what is the PGA tour going to do to counter this? Revamp the FedEx Cup and make it worth $30 million?

Everyone says the quality of golf is better on the Euro tour- but I'll tell ya, while great, the Ryder Cup certainly proved to me it is no better than the PGA tour. I certainly remember all of the golf analysts spouting how the Euro players were so much better and were going to walk away with it again. Not trying to start a US vs. Euro discussion- I just don't see that they're that much better. Good yes. Great yes. But I think you have a great quaility of golf on both sides of the pond.

If it were so much better, why would they be trying to woo the American players over to Europe with all this money?


The European International Tour is not better than the PGA Tour - has never been. You still see the best of the best on the PGA Tour.
BUT.....with the race to Dubai and $20 million price money starting next year, the European International Tour will be closing in on the PGA Tour like never seen before.

The US still have almost 50% of all active golfers in the world and still have a LOT of players in the Top 100 and Top 20 in the world and still have the 2 highest ranked players in the world, but Sergio is closing in on Philly Mick and you have never seen so many Euro golfers in the Top 20 on the OWGR list like you see today.

The PGA Tour is still the strongest and more powerfull golf tour in the world, but the European International Tour is closing in on it like never seen before.

This is great for all of golf fans, because we get to see more high quality golf tournaments and golf events all year round now ok.gif
HCEG1
QUOTE (ClubHoUno @ Nov 2 2008, 08:22 PM) *
QUOTE (InTheHole @ Oct 31 2008, 08:18 PM) *
Ah yes, early morning golf (here in the states).

So, what is the PGA tour going to do to counter this? Revamp the FedEx Cup and make it worth $30 million?

Everyone says the quality of golf is better on the Euro tour- but I'll tell ya, while great, the Ryder Cup certainly proved to me it is no better than the PGA tour. I certainly remember all of the golf analysts spouting how the Euro players were so much better and were going to walk away with it again. Not trying to start a US vs. Euro discussion- I just don't see that they're that much better. Good yes. Great yes. But I think you have a great quaility of golf on both sides of the pond.

If it were so much better, why would they be trying to woo the American players over to Europe with all this money?


The European International Tour is not better than the PGA Tour - has never been. You still see the best of the best on the PGA Tour.
BUT.....with the race to Dubai and $20 million price money starting next year, the European International Tour will be closing in on the PGA Tour like never seen before.

The US still have almost 50% of all active golfers in the world and still have a LOT of players in the Top 100 and Top 20 in the world and still have the 2 highest ranked players in the world, but Sergio is closing in on Philly Mick and you have never seen so many Euro golfers in the Top 20 on the OWGR list like you see today.

The PGA Tour is still the strongest and more powerfull golf tour in the world, but the European International Tour is closing in on it like never seen before.

This is great for all of golf fans, because we get to see more high quality golf tournaments and golf events all year round now ok.gif


Some good points. However, I'm not sure that I'd call 36 players in the World's top 100 a 'Lot', or for that matter 7 out of the top 20. Fairly impressive, but in both cases, over 60% are not from the US, a figure I suggest will increase as the European tour goes from strength to strength
SmallvilleCK
When the Race to Dubai is established, the European International tour will overtake the pga tour and appearance fees will eventually die out due to the established quality of the fields. It will be very exciting. It seems some americans here are very excited while others can't handle their bubble being popped. anyway in terms of golf, it is for the best!
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