I have been reading all of the topics/posts over the last 3 days and I am just wondering why - I am only speaking of the U.S. - why do we have idiots in the crowd? Why do people have to say "get in the hole" or "you da man" or any of a dozen or so more stupid things that are said at golf tournaments. What would possess anybody to insult a player or worse his family on the golf course?

I just don't get this and I want to hear other opinions as to why this exists. I don't believe that anybody in my circle of friends would ever shout out at a golf tournament or insult a player. Why is this? Is it the alcohol?

I gotta tell you I am baffled and saddened by these behaviors.

this has been beaten to death, i think everyone agrees its stupid. my guess is, a little too much liquid gold was consumed.

Swear to god you're "baffled and saddened" that a drunk spectator would yell at a golf tournament. You need to recalibrate the baffle and sad meters.

I think the alcohol combined with 'fans' who don't know anything about golf, but simply adhere to the people cult (or in this case the national team).

As usual the decent fans might suffer, but why not prohibit the alcohol sales during events or have a 4 beer limit per person?
Was at the FBR in Phoenix this year and it more resembled a frat party than a golf tournament. And yeah, it's probably an exception rather than the rule (luckily!).

Botom line is, there's always gonna be an idiot around, no matter what you do.

we can't even get beer on the course in tournaments, only in those corporate pavilions on the 18th. And although it may be annoying, atleast there's the atmosphere that the PGA Tour seem to be striving for

I have been drunk at golf tournaments before but have never lost complete control of myself. I don't understand how people could act like this. I am not just talking about the Ryder Cup. I am talking about each and every tour stop, the Ryder Cup, any golf tournament.

Why would I need to recalibrate my "meters"? That is exactly the attitude that allows the continued degradation of our society. Parents attacking little league coaches, corporate leaders defrauding stockholders, the list goes on and on. Your suggestion that I lower my expectations is actually part of the problem in my honest opinion. Let's all just adjust our meters as to what is acceptable behavior.

On a macro level, our society is spiraling downward, seemingly out of control. Is a person yelling at a golf tournament comparable to a starving 8 year old in Africa? I don't think so but these behaviors represent small steps down the staircase of decency.

BTW, I am not baffled and saddened by one drunk yelling at a golf tournament but the fact that this happens each and every day does, I swear to God.

I blame it on the self esteem movement in America in the 1980's. And I'm only 1/2 kidding. There's been a cultural shift in the US in the last 20 years. Too many people full of themselves. Not enough humility. No shame. A culture of "It's OK as long as you can get away with it." It's all around us - In politics, television, movies, schools, sports and corporations. Just look at the Financial crisis happening now. CEO's of Fanny and Freddie getting multi-million dollar golden parachutes, etc. Shameful and shameless.

However, I find it amusing in a sad way that so many people on this board in the last few days have been apologizing for the actions of a few unruly fans. The only people that should be apologizing are the unruly fans. You're only responsible for your own actions. I don't care for the collective mentality of "If we're all to blame then no-one is to blame." If you get what I mean.

yea basically u cannot escape idiots!! they are at work,on the road,wal mart,grocery stores, or neighbors!! this is the world we live in now....i love my country(usa) but there are people who take their freedom as an excuse to be ignorant. i have witnessed several ryder cups and over in europe they have cheered for missed putts/shots etc.. they dress up in goofy costumes and wigs also. how many times has garcia danced around the greens and screamed before? i am tired of hearing the "ugly american" reference. the euros need to accept defeat as we have in years past and get ready for the next one!! i was personally filled with joy to see the american team motivated by some new blood to come together as a team!! this concept has worked for the euros in years past and we finally got a captain who put in the time and caring to bring back the cup!! great job usa...usa...usa...!!!!

About the "few" viewers:

1. There is the one who places viewers on the course that they are from one hole directly distracting another one (Paul Azinger)
2. There is the one who cheers them up (AK & BW)
3. There is the one who ignores to call them to silence (Paul Azinger), and if someone is called to silence then during preparation to a stroke, which in fact again shows only gamesmanship.
4. Everybody should make up his own mind about that

But all this talk as Europeans are whiners and stuff like that underlines a basic blindness i've seen in the run up to the iraqi war ("axis of weasels").

Facts are for me the following:
1. Team USA showed particularly a great performance (also in terms of sportmanship)
2. Azinger, because of his proven track record of breaking or bending rules for just a win must accept the worst possible accusation that he broke absolute holy rules of golf, as such incidents countlessly and systematically occured.

But it all was predicted:

"3 On the first morning of the 1991 Ryder Cup at Kiawah Island, the foursomes match between Chip Beck and Paul Azinger of the United States and Europe's Seve Ballesteros and Jose Maria Olazabal came to a halt on the 10th tee. Three holes earlier, the Spaniards had noticed that the Americans were using balls of different compressions, depending on the hole and the direction of the wind. They thought this might be a breach of the match rules.

At first, Azinger indignantly denied any wrongdoing. Then, when it became clear that there would be no penalty on holes already completed, the man who will captain his country at Valhalla later this year admitted: "Yes, we did it."

The verdict: Azinger speak with forked tongue, a fact current European skipper Nick Faldo would do well to remember."

8 One up on Seve Ballesteros with one hole to play in the 1989 Ryder Cup at the Belfry, Paul Azinger hooked his drive into the water. He then dropped his ball in a place no-one had previously dropped a ball – nor has anyone since – and smashed a three-wood into a greenside bunker.

Seve, after finding the fairway from the tee, dumped his approach in the pond and made a five. But so did Azinger, getting up and down from the bunker for a half and a one-hole win.

The verdict: Azinger is worth keeping a close eye on (see 3).

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport...lity.3809874.jp

Very pityful development..

To quote that great American, Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up, Francis."

Whether Al K. Hall deserves partial blame or it's just some uninformed individual out for the day on a free pass, does it cause you to lose sleep at night? Does it take any enjoyment away from you being out on a golf course watching your favorite player? How about being on a golf course on a wonderful sunny day and not at work? Priorities, folks. Enjoy the day, take a second or two and shake your head at the bozo yelling "get in the hole" a millisecond after the shot is struck, let it pass and keep walking. Enjoy the Day.

I see nothing wrong with Boo and Anthony Kim trying to get the crowd fired up. That should be okay. It's the guy who says something crude to Lee Westwood. Or the person who yells "get in the hole". Or the person who yells "Miss it, Noonan". These are the things that bother me.

I don't agree with Paul Azinger telling people to cheer for missed putts or bad shots. That is not in the spirit of the game or the matches. I don't care what side of the pond you reside.

Where will all of this end? Watch clips from the 50's or 60's and you see everybody wearing a shirt and tie while attending golf tournaments. I don't think that is necessary but for sure, we didn't have any idiots yelling "you da man".

My apologies, Rudders, but I don't think you are getting my point. It does take away the enjoyment of the event. When one of the players has to talk about being abused by Al K. Hall during the entire event, there is a problem. Do you not see this? Do you not agree? This behavior should not be tolerated by anybody. The guy who is yelling "get in the hole" is probably 2 beers away from call Lee Westwood a SOB while he walking from the 10th green to the 11th tee.

I have found these behaviours more common in the "casual golf" fan... the people that go to a tournament because its "the thing to do." They might not know anything about golf other than you put (putt) the ball in the whole. A little blissful ignorance and a lot of liquid courage leads to ridiculous antics.

The media glorifies the the rowdy fans.
The networks and advertisers promote the rivalry.
More fans come to be rowdy because the TV showed the rowdy fans having fun.

And here we are.

Remember what fan is short for?

When competitive sports is ruled by big money, in the long run, ugly things tend to happen.

If they had actually consumed Liquid Gold, the problem would have been solved!



EDIT: DO NOT DRINK THIS, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!

Hahahahaha........GREAT POST!

The majority of spectators are people that play once a year and have no clue what's going on. I went to the Deutsche Bank in Norton this year and I couldn't believe how some people were acting. Screaming the phrases you just mentioned when there's literally 4 people watching a player tee off on a par 3. My favorite one was when I was standing next to 2 guys on the par 5 7th hole. Adam Scott hits a low wedge in from about 70 yards that takes 2 hops and stops dead about 3 feet from the hole. One of the guys next to me starts screaming and jumping up and down like he just got shot with a handgun. He turns to his buddy and says "Wow, he really skulled that one". His buddy then comes back with "Yeah, but he did it on purpose." I think that in general, the average golfer really has no idea. They don't know how to act because noone ever told them.

Totally agree! And now we get a "revenge" in wales? But i still think that Azinger had those event very much under control and even supported some misbehaviour. Maybe time to write an open letter to the PGA that for the RC in Wales everyone who does even the smallest breach of etiquette get thrown out of the venue immediately.

And now those hyperambigous kids become examples for their generation, no thank you Mr. Kim.

It's America.......they have a constititional right to be stupid.

I think it's up to the courses to police the fans. "Get in the hole!" as a player tees off on a par 4 or 5 should be grounds for instant ejection, no refunds.
Of course, I'd also like to see the offending party forced to spend an entire day in public wearing a large breadboard sign that says, "I AM A COMPLETE MORON" but I don't think that's enforceable.

But as a guest of a sporting event, behavior standards can and should be enforced. Someone yelling in a player's backswing or making lewd comments towards the wives has no place in the game and needs to be tossed out. I don't care how many sponsor's tents they bought or what they paid for their tickets. If you can't act in a responsible manner, get the hell out!

This needs to happen at all golf events, not just the Ryder Cup on both sides of the pond. Until that happens, we'll have to listen to more jacklegs that think that they deserve to be a part of the spectacle instead of just a witness.

Ding! DIng! Ding! We have a winner. These people believe they are a part of the action, and thus think what they are doing is justified. All this "12th man" and "the crowd was really behind us" stuff is good up to a point. That point was passed a long time ago.

You should hear my wife when we watch tournaments. She comments every time some doofus yells something out. Which means she comments on every shot shown.

Remember the chip-in at the US Open where Woods couldn't believe he holed it, he was just laughing? Well the guy who yelled out one time after he hit it probably is still going around telling people that was him who yelled it. +1 to the guy who made the comment about the self-esteem movement. It completely removed the distinction between things that a person really should take pride in, and the stupid stuff that a 10-year old can get away with thinking is a big deal.

Guess what:

Tara Guenthner: Tournament director for Ryder Cup, director of administration for the Professional Golfers' Association of America
Age: 37
Husband: Mike Guenthner
Sons: Michael, 7, Hayden, 3
Hometown: Gaithersburg, Md.
Residence: Crescent Hill


Ahh forgot about the Owner of the Venue (thx Wikipedia):

In 1992, Valhalla was named as host of the 1996 PGA Championship. The following year, the PGA of America purchased a 25% interest in the club. After the 1996 PGA Championship, the PGA of America raised its stake to 50%, and announced that the event would return to Valhalla in 2000. At the end of the 2000 event, the PGA of America exercised an option to purchase the remaining interest in the club. Later that year, it announced that the 2008 Ryder Cup would be held at Valhalla.

I spent the entire week at Valhalla.(sun up until sun down,Monday-Sunday)

The crowd was outstanding, NEVER witnessed any drunks behaving badly.
The crowd never heckeled any Euro player. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.
I had a great time with the European friends I met.
Lets put the bickering to bed, The Americans out played the Europeans.

Absolutely agree.

Unless you are like that giant eye thing from the Lord of the Rings, how can you comment on the behaviour of the entire fan base on the course??
I believe that you never seen any drunks behaving badly as I think it was only a minority that were out of line but you can't vouch for every fan that was there.

I noticed you also mentioned on another thread that no fan cheered a missed European putt or poor shot, mate i'm sorry but it was clear as day that it did happen.

I'm glad you had a great time, even with the result i'd have loved to have been there.

Actually, just my opinion, but maybe there's nothing at all wrong with an audience having fun (so long as there isn't screaming or photography during a player's backswing).

I mean, folks, golf isn't some damn church, nor an ornate diplomatic dinner where every word could start a world war.

Its just a flippin' sport. This isn't life or death ... strip away all the hushed, solemn tones, and self-important reverance for "tradition" ... and at the end of the day, it is grown men endeavoring to get a little white ball into a hole a guy dug in the ground.

Different people enjoy sport in different ways. I'm not really one to scream things ... but really have no problem with people that are more vocal. Just because someone gets pleasure from being a fan in a manner different than I do doesn't make him an "idiot".

In fact, it makes things a bit more interesting. I've been watching golf (and periodically attending tournaments) for over 40 years. I remember the good old days every seems to love. Hate to say it, but golf was a lot duller for most fans than it is now. Both the players, and the atmosphere are a lot livlier, and really? More entertaining. More fun.

You say this, and I believe you but what about Lee Westwood's comments? If he says people called him names then I tend to believe him. What about the guy who yelled out "get in the hole" seemingly on every shot hit.

I believe that 99.9% of the fans were fantastic but what about that .1% That is the group we are discussing.

Well, I disagree with you. What does life and death have to do with yelling "get in the hole" after a shot is struck???????? There are a lot of things in life that bother people that are not life and death issues. Does that mean we ignore them?

Your attitude represents this behavior. "It's just a flippin' sport".......it's just one candy bar I stole.........and on and on. I do view golf as different than ALL other sports. We call penalties on ourselves, we compete with dignity and class. We should attend competitions while acting with this same class and dignity. Where does calling Lee Westwood names in between holes fall? How about yelling, "miss it" before a guy hits a putt? Or yelling "you da man" or "get in the hole" or any of the other "idiotic" statements that are uttered after a shot is hit.

I would like to think that we are becoming more civilized but it would seem the opposite is true.

The crowd cheered when Americans won holes. This often happened as a result of a missed putt or a bad shot. We did get loud, but that was because we won the hole or had a clear advantage, It was never mean spirited.

I rewatched Sunday rounds on T.V. last night and I do not believe the emotions of the day translated very well during the telecast. Television has a way of making a big spirited crowd look like a mob.
Wish you could have been here!

Yelling "get in the hole" is not rude, just a little worn out for those of us who watch and play much golf.

As far as Lee's comments I believe his emotions may have gotten the best of him.
I had the pleasure of meeting him several times this week,great guy.
He never looked comfortable playing this week.
No way he heard someone talk about his mother, a few reasons why-
1. way too loud to hear a specific comment
2. golf course extremely well policed. Valhalla is holy ground in Ky. other spectators would have tossed the offender themselves if not a marshall or police officer.
3.In Kentucky one does not make Mother remarks. Your Mother may also be your Aunt or Sister.

It was pretty loud but I managed to hear a bunch of "get in the holes" so I am sure that Westwood could have heard a phrase yelled - especially in between holes which, if I remember correctly, is when he said it happened. These are the actions in which I take issue.

First I apologize for not knowing how to put the quote to preface my reply...

Secondly, "I've been drunk at golf tournaments before..." Hmmm. I haven't been drunk at a golf tournament so I don't know what state of mind that would put a person in. In fact, the "drunken" stage of my life passed when I was about 22.
I go to about 4-6 PGA Tour events each year for the past several years (even worked the Pebble Beach tourney for a number of years inside the ropes), so I know what obnoxious is. Let me put it succinctly: if someone makes a personal derogatory comment about a player, his family, or a member of his entourage within earshot of that person, that's wrong and should not be considered acceptable behavior. If someone yells out, "You da man" or "Go in the hole", it's not going to ruin my day out on the course. I may shake my head and wonder how many beers can an individual hold, but I don't take it as a personal effrontery. I spend my time enjoying the day, the walk, and hoping my player makes the cut. That's all.

Almost forgot; I don't like anyone who roots for the NY Rangers or the Yankees.

AMEN! One should not think so highly of themselves. Enjoy life and let others enjoy it as well.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Rudders,

Now we are talking. I agree with your points and for the record, I am not a fan of the NY Yankees. As for my intoxication, well that was in my youth at the Colonial. Although I had too much to drink, the players never heard a peep from me. I wasn't insulting players nor was I yelling "you da man" or "get in the hole"........

I am not saying that one of these "yells" ruins my day. I am just wondering why they have to exist. You seem to agree with me that they should not take place. I guess we are just discussing how much of a problem this truly is. In the big scheme of things, it probably is not that big of a deal but WHY do these individuals behave in this manner.

For every Rodney Dangerfield, there has to be a Judge Smails. Its the cosmic balance. The circle of life.

Akunamatada ...

Still, they aren't exactly equal ... one seems to derive rather a tad more joy out of life than the other. No?

To mis-use an old TV commercial quote:

"Because they CAN, CAN, CAN, CAN, CAN!"

And...why analyze what can't be analyzed? Serenity Now!

I can picture BOO with a keg in his tour bag now!

Yes! But it isn't only Americans. Paddy (very clearly) enjoys a Guiness (ar 6 ... or 12). Olazabel does that most politically incorrect of all things - loves his damn cigars (even - gasp - in front of TV cameras ... OMG! He's a terrible role model! What about, you konw, the children!) Sergio pumps his fist! American and European fans in the Ryder Cup actually cheer for their teams! They scream "get in the hole" ... Trash talk the opposing side! They should all be shot! They are totally destroying the game!!!!!

Me? I'm all for "tradition". I'ver been playing golf for longer than half the people in this discussion have even been alive. I still have acxtually never worn shorts on a golf course. Play with perfect etiquette. Every trap I hit out of is raked. Every divot replaced. Every ball mark on a green fixed.

But as a spectator? I totally love both the colorful players, and wild fans. They make golf immensely more interesting - and fun - than what it was 30 years ago.

Anyone has a problem with that? Um, so what? Live in your small, uncomfortable worlds.

You're Da Man.....

Yes I was at the Belfry and witnessed the incident at the 18th for myself. I found it incredulous at the time as I had a reasonable view of his drive. And don't forget the infamous Q-school incident and the fact that Azinger was one of the first players disqualified in a trial by TV incident at the Doral in 91.

But be careful what you say as I've been flamed on here for stating such heresy already. People here don't really want to acknowledge all this.

The FBR Open in Scottsdale, AZ (I'm a Phoenix boy) breaks golf tournament attendance records every year. It is probably the most exciting, fun to watch non-major of the year because it gets so loud and so crazy. You should hear the Phoenix fans go nuts when Lefty comes to the 16th tee. It is an un-godly noise and I love it. You don't even notice Eldrick is missing. As for the "get in the hole" thing, that I can do without.

You have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. I really could not care less. Just like there are probably people out there who don't fix ball marks, don't rake traps, don't care about etiquette.

I actually do have a problem with the people who yell out "ya da man". I think that most likely the people who do this are starving for attention and this is there way of getting it. It is a weak attempt but an attempt none the less.

For the record, my world is sized just about right and contrary to your belief, I am very comfortable. I think that your tone is unnecessarily provocative and confrontational.

I actually don't mind the crowds at the FBR. I believe it is interesting to see how the players perform in this type of environment. I would not want each and every crowd to be this way. I love the crowds at the British Open (Open Championship for you Brits). That is the way crowds should behave - in my opinion.

Apparently, this Q-school incident is so infamous that you're about the only person who's heard of it and/or brought it up. Do a favor to those of us who are unaware of this atrocity and post a link from any article ever written about this. If it's that infamous, it shouldn't be tough to find something to back up your claim. I tried, but came up empty. But since you seem to have some inside information, perhaps you could provide some sort of documentation to support yourself. Thank you.