Today I was playing after school with a guy that i play with a lot. On the sixth hole, a long par-3, i push it in the right (wet) rough by the green. My ball plugs and I ask him what the ruling is because it seems like every person thinks the rule is different for just about every thing--extremely confusing. He gives me some proof from a tournament he had recently played in and said that it "used to only be through the gree-closely mown, but they changed it to just through the green." I'm hesitant, but take relief anyway (lift, clean and drop about an inch from where it pitched.) So I start thinking about it again on the 12th hole and check the rule book. OF COURSE, it says "through the green in CLOSELY MOWN AREAS"

So I think about it for the rest of the round like i always do with questionable rulings for the rest of the round.

1) Does he incur a penalty for giving me a bad ruling? do I, too?
2) What is the penalty for breech of this rule (i didn't see it in the rule book)?

From USGA.org:

Rule 25-2
Embedded Ball Rule
Q. On what part of the course is a player entitled to relief from an embedded ball?
A. Under Rule 25-2, a player may only take relief from a ball that is embedded in a closely-mown area through the green. A closely-mown area is any area that is mowed to fairway height or less. However, the Committee may adopt a Local Rule that allows for relief from an embedded ball anywhere through the green.

Penalty for Breach of Rule:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes.

thanks, is there a rule though for your playing partner giving you the wrong ruling and you following through because you think its right?

Your playing partner has no responsibility. It's all on you. Why the hell didn't you just look it up if you had a rule book w/ you? Would have saved you a lot of frustration.

BDLz

because i figured he knew the rule, and he had proof from a tournament (where they obviously made it a local rule to do the lift, clean drop everywhere for embedded ball) so there didn't seem need to challenge him until i thought about it an hour later. I also seem to think that looking something up in the rule book takes a while and was playing fast.

Won't make the mistake agian though

When playing a friendly but competitive round, in my opinion, you make the decisions together, on the course, and that stands, in terms of who has bragging rights and who buys the beer. It is good to learn the rules, but what happens on the course, is a done deal, in my opinion - again, for friendly rounds, not formal tournaments.

Never understood that rule anyways...for every tournament the big guys play you can get a free drop if your ball is embedded, no matter where you are. Just us recreational hacks are penalized if the course drainage is not good enough to keep the rough areas dry enough for the balls not to plug (at least at my club it's a real pain in the a**).
It's not like we can drop the ball in the fairway when being plugged in the rough....you're still gonna be in the rough, so where's the common sense here?

The USGA has always had problems with this rule I agree it just should be thru the green period

Years ago in a section PGA tournament a guy I was playing with plugged his ball in foot high grass according to the rules he got no relief and I told him so

He decided to hit two balls which was his right.

Then afterwards the rules committee of which I was a part met and discussed it. I obstained from voting because I was playing with him.

Then stood there explained what happened and watched three professionals misinterpret the rule and give him relief.

Honestly it made me so angry I resigned from the tournament committee. One of them wrote to the USGA and came later and told me I was right.

The rules can be pretty complicated but often do not make sense.

Ken, those folks apparently live by this quote:

“Be just and if you can’t be just, be arbitrary.”
– William S. Burroughs

That's funny.

Similar to my own rule to live by: "often wrong, never in doubt!"


For me the rules could be simplified by just going back to the basics of the game. All the rules that allow you to touch your ball add so much complexity to what should be a simple game - PLAY IT AS IT LIES. Don't touch the ball until it hits the bottom of the cup!

I wonder how much you'd like that "PLAY IT AS IT LIES" simplicity the next time your tee shot ends up on a cart path or fairway drain and you've got a brand new set of shiny irons in the bag.

BDLz

All man-made. We're talking about an embedded lie off the fairway.

Having said that, my opinion is that an embedded lie should be lifted through the green, but the USGA and R&A differ with me. If you find your ball where it would be dangerous to you or your equipment to hit it, as I often do because my game sucks, the rule is "Unplayable Lie".

Believe me, I feel your pain. I've hit a shot off what I thought was grass in the rough with cypress roots beneath it. Ouch. The divot tool or a tee now does double duty as a root tester.

You were indeed correct but if you were on the committee, how in the first place was this(relief through the green including the rough) not made a local rule prior to the start of this torunament?? Maybe b/c it was so long ago they didn't have local rules to govern play?? I play in a lot of amateur tournaments now and I understand what the rule says regarding this, but I've never played in a tournament where you were not entitled to relief from a plugged ball through the green(including the rough). Let's face it, the ball's plugged and not in a hazard, common-sense would tell anybody that the person gets relief.......well except that of the USGA!! You were ultimitely correct w/ the ruling but I think the committe has to take some of the heat here(but again, maybe it was so long ago that they never had this kind of local rule option??).

What William S. Burroughs book is that quote from Ronzo?

Naked Lunch. It follows the phrase, "I'll catnip the jerk." The complete quote is:

"Well," I said, tapping my arm, "duty calls. As one judge said to another: 'Be just and if you can't be just, be arbitrary.' "

EDIT: It was also found in The Sensuous Man, where it was suggested for use as a pick-up line.

I'm a repository for a lot of absolutely useless information.

lol, I thought so. I read both Naked Lunch, and Junkie. Gut wrenching reads.

Totally agree. Excellent writer, despite his demons. Makes you understand the situation posted in the thread "Beaten by a junkie" on Golfwrx earlier today.

Depends on which is more important, your score or your club.