I was looking online but was hard to find out exactly what I am trying to understand.....................

Here in the USA, you:

1. Calculate each round's total score differential (score minus rating)
2. Adjust for the slope (which uses 113 as the 'base' level then adjusts for course difficulty) to arrive at your index for that round.
3. Then you take your best 10 of your last 20 index differentials, average them
4. Multiply the resulting average by 0.96 (????? - never understood this but this is not my question)

Oh yeah, they also use the "Equitable Stroke Control" which, in my case with a course handicap typically slightly over 10, means for submitting my card for handicap purposes, I never take more than a 7 on any hole, regardless of my score for the hole or the par of the hole. I shot a 79 the other day (par 68, rating 66.8, 117 slope) and had a 10 on a par 5 (don't ask, it was ugly) so for handicap purposes, I had to reduce the 10 to a 7 and therefore submit a score of 76, playing to a 8.9 for the day rather than an 11.8.

The "slope" is intended to build upon the course rating (eg, a course rating may be 70.7 on a par 72 - shows diffuculty) and the idea is to say that a harder course will disproportionately hurt a higher handicap player than a lower one. Hence, if the rating is, say 135, then you take your differential (say, score 85 on the course with a 70.7 rating and 135 slope), your differential is 14.3. You then adjust for the slope, by 14.4x(113/135)=11.9. So here, you played to an 11.9 index for that course.

The result and intent is to arrive at your "potential" but not your average. According to some I have read, this means you should only play at or under your handicap around 25% of the time.

I know in France they also use slope and rating but not sure if their handicap calculation is the same as well or not.

So.................

How does this compare to that of the UK or Europe?

I have seen that you appear to need to keep your card as they adjust each hole for handicap to end up submitting your net score that way or something. I have also understood from my reading on this site that handicaps in UK are usually higher than the equivalent golfer in the USA (maybe the typical USA ego is a reason the USGA went for potential rather than average).

I am trying to find out:
1. If they have a system of a certain number of recent scores used (to compare to the last 20 we use in the USA)
2. If "yes" to question 1, then do they use only a portion of those scores or do they use all for the ensuing calculation?
3. Do they use some sort of slope system?
4. Do they use Equitable Stroke Control or an equivalent to allow for "blow up holes"?

My USGA index is 9.5 but my "average" of my last 20 differentials (adjusted for slope and equitable stroke control) is 12.4 (yes, I am inconsistent). I am wonding what would be closer to comparing in the UK or Europe.

Thanks in advance for any input!!!

i dno wot u sed about all that lol but in england we play a comp on saturday and my handicap is 0.8 so if i shoot-3 i will be four under my handicap yes?

they have an average for the field called Standard Scratch it uses a calculation, the lowest handicaps 0-5 affect the score by a percentage more than any other category.
The c.s.s competition standard scratch is predetermined on the difficulty of the course so my course is level s.s meanin g a scratch golfer should play to par for his handicap.

so i am four under my handicap and c.s.s is level par so at the end of the comp i will be cut from .8 to .4 yes?

we have a max stroke thingy like you but it can only be a double bogey on your handicap(if you get a shot on a 5 you score 9 and you get a shot this 3 over your handicap score for the hole so it is changed to and 8)
i think but am not sure!

no other results affect your handicap or index as you say

The UK systems takes every scorecard into account, so it is an average, not what you can potentially do, but what you average.
If you NR/WD +0.1
If you shoot over CSS/SS/PAR +0.1
Section 1 players -0.1 for every shot under CSS/SS/PAR
Section 2 players -0.2 for every shot under
Section 3 players -0.3 for every shot under


We have a net double bogey rule for handicap reasons, 1) it stops someone having a monster of a hole on an otherwise good round, and 2) it also helps stop sandbaggers to some extent.

lmao thanks mate i was sure i forgot summet:P!

wehat do you mean "every scorecard"? they take into account EVERY scorecard even non comp ones!

We dont have a slope rating for courses, but we do have a C.S.S. (competition scratch score) for each course which takes into account the difficulty of the course for that particular day- basically the par of the course may be higher or lower than normal. Handicaps for medal (strokeplay) competitions are usually calculated thus:

For each score you enter you will be asked to submit the gross score (number of total strokes taken), the par of the course and the handicap you played off. The following calculation is then made to work out your golf league points. Gross strokes minus handicap = net score. Par minus net score = golf league points.

For instance, if I score a 76 gross and my handicap is 8, my net score is 68. If the par of the course is 72, I have scored 4 golf league points (4 under par).

Given this, the following table will determine how your handicap will be amended based on this score.

The maximum handicap for men is 28 and the maximum handicap for ladies is 45.

The table below shows the handicap ranges in each category and the deduction in handicap for each golf league point scored.

Category 1 Handicap range 0.1 – 5.4 Deduction for each point scored 0.1
Category 2 Handicap range 5.5 – 12.4 Deduction for each point scored 0.2
Category 3 Handicap range 12.5 – 20.4 Deduction for each point scored 0.3
Category 4 Handicap range 20.5 – 28.4 Deduction for each point scored 0.4
Category 5 Handicap range over 28.5 Deduction for each point scored 0.5

Therefore if my handicap is currently 8, and I score 4 league points, my new handicap will be 8 minus 4 x 0.2 equals 7.2 Please note for rounds played all handicaps are rounded up or down where appropriate. Therefore my new playing handicap is 7.

If I score negative points, a net score above par, my handicap is increased by point 0.1 per round no matter what the score is and no matter what my current handicap is. In this instance we choose not to use the buffer zone allowance provided by CONGU (counil of national golf unions)

For instance, if with my new handicap of 7.2, I then score a gross 83 my net score is 76. If the par of the course is still 72, I have scored – 4 golf league points, four over par.

Given this my new handicap would be 7.3 an increase of just 0.1.

It does favour to how well you have played, or your best round for example and it will take a poor run of form to get a full shot back.

Simple when you get used to it really. And as long as you play in regular competitions, an accurate depiction on your playing ability or "form" if you like.
The commitee can also ammend your handicap from time to time if they feel that you are playing better or worse than your current handicap - the dreaded "cut on observation" scenario. Always be prepared to play (and lose) off your handicap!

what is a league point never herd of tht before? where are you from like?

and you have put cat one is 0.1 to 5.4 when there are + golfers obv

not post bashin jus want it right:)

It is an average in the sense that the handicap takes into account all scores, but it is not an average in the sense of a 'mean'. It is asymmetrical - the effect of a bad score is less than the effect of a good score.

The relevant differences are:

Only tournament scores count
No slope - courses have a standard scratch - usually +/- shots around par
Bad weather can invalidate all scores in a tournament for handicap purposes
Handicap committee can also alter handicap to take account of matchplay, fourballs etc

The UK system is pretty simple once you know it, and at the end of a tournament round, you will have a pretty good idea how your handicap will change.


My personal experience of playing with many US players, mostly in the US, is that US handicaps are lower - a shot or two in the low range, but a few shots in mid and high handicaps.

jaskanski - thank you very much for taking teh time for such a lengthy reply. It was a great description.

I just have a couple ensuing question, if you would be so kind......
1. Is it ALL scores, regardless of how may you have? (or only current year, or last 20 or something like that)
2. Is there a minimum # of scores before you can claim a handicap?
3. Rob_Brown mentioned double bogey max...is that correct for all "categories"

wow...only tournament cores count? What if you want to play in a tourney but never have before? What do you do?

Also, what does a weekend golfer do when playing buddies for a casual round but for money or just bragging rights if they never played tourneys and hence no handicap?

I see the double bogey max thing there....answers my previous question....thanks.....is this applied before caluculating your net score in a "handicapped" tourney or only for handicap calculation purposes?

they just use a 28 being the highest handicap available to men.

the double thing is done when the score is entered into the computer, it does it and adjusts it if needs be.

people who have never played in comps must play 3 normal rounds off member tees and put those scores in to determine their ability which usually is the max 28!

could you explain the index thing please:?

Instead of calling it a handicap, they technically call it an "Index". It is calculated as described in my original post.

You do not need it to be a tournament round. All rounds count so as to truly capture how you are playing. From what I read, you only get a handicap in UK by playing tourneys so not sure how friends play among each other fairly other than "hey, I usually shoot x". Here, I can go to any course in the USA and play with anyone that has an index, and we can compete however we want since we have this index.

In the UK, if you only count tournament rounds, it seems unfair to me. Someone that plays 50 times since their last tournament and has been getting better and better may only have a 15 handicap but has been shooting 75's regularly thanks to lessons/practice/play. There is surely something done to account for non-tournament rounds, isn't there? I have played 22 times this year and 4 of those are tournaments. I sucked in them all, too, so if only based on those, I would have a handicap of somewhere around 19 which is clearly not fair to others I play since my real handicap index is 9.5, including those 4 tournament rounds.

What am I missing about the UK system?

Hi,

If I could explain a couple of things. First off, with regard to all rounds counting. When I play at my home course in England, it's expected that a fourball get round in 3 hours on foot. 3 1/2 you're slow and unpopular, 4 you're in trouble and hated. It is therefore frowned upon (this being England, literally) for players to regularly use their full 5 minutes (again) looking for a ball they'll probably never find, to make numerous practice swings or to hold up play by buggering around on the green (doing a complete 360 on the green to see the putt from all sides, looking at a putt from behind the hole too often, reading the break on short ones for more than a second or even putting the really short ones at all). With the ball not always ending up in the hole, you obviously can't post a card. It is also strongly discouraged (and at some courses not at all allowed) to play from the back (competition tees).

Medal rounds are different, all the above is accepted and the rounds consequently take 4 hours or more. Everyone knows this in advance and as a result some people choose not to play in competitions often, or in some cases, at all. It is therefore not uncommon to play with/against golfers who say they're officially a x handicap but play to a y handicap. Unless you're playing for a significant sum of money, I don't see the problem. Golf is after all meant to be an honourable game.

Yeah we call those people bandits, who have handicaps miles above what they are actually capable of. Seeing as most people want to have a handicap as low as possible and want to play fairly it's not normally too much of an issue. I'm not sure if it's a local rule of a national thing but at my home club single fugure players can only have their handicap adjusted from competitions where as higher handicappers can hand in general play cards. This stops a good player from playing everyday for example and then only handing in the good scores so their handicap is miles better than what it should be. Also it means that higher handicappers can be rewarded by getting cut if they play well socially, where as the better players have to turn it on in competitions. As far as social golf is concerned use just use your handicap to calculate shots, everyone will have one and new players must hand in their first three scorecards from social play to get one. Ocasionally there will be handicapping systems that opperate slightly differently within societies or groups of players, my uncle for example players in a seniors group at his club where each week there handicap is adjusted by a shot depending on their score, which i guess gives atruer reflection fo form, however that is not his official club handicap, that is still worke dout useing the systme that otehrs have already explained.

Also, does anyone else call the handicap double bogey max system 'stableford adjusted'? Where any high scores are reduced to the lowest number where you would still score 0 points if you were playing stableford.

Good point here...the double bogey maximum only applies on all 18 holes to a scratch golfer. It would be more correctly stated as a nett double bogey system...a triple bogey maximum on all holes for someone getting 18 strokes for example.

Here's how it's officially described by the authorities in the UK:

19. Stableford / Nett Double Bogey Adjustment
The purpose of the Stableford Adjustment is to place a limit on the maximum score that can be recorded at any hole in order to make handicaps more representative of a player’s potential ability. This control is for handicap purposes only. It has been introduced to lessen the impact of the occasional ‘bad’ score on a player’s Stroke Play return and to reduce the incidence of ‘No Returns’ that can, on occasions, represent an undesirable proportion of the competition entry. It also allows a player who does not complete a hole, for any reason, to continue to record a score for handicap purposes, thus sustaining his golfing interest and at the same time providing useful handicap information. It is important that competitors are made aware of the intent of this clause and encouraged to take advantage of it.

19.1/1 Example of Application of Score Adjustment Using Nett Double Bogey
A competitor playing from a handicap of 15 returned a nett score of 70 in a Stroke Play Qualifying Competition. The scorecard, however, contained an 8 at the Par 4, 5th hole which was Stroke Index 6. In this instance, therefore, the nett double bogey score was 7 (4+2+1) resulting in the 8 being reduced to 7 (for handicap purposes) with consequent reduction in nett score to 69 and a handicap reduction of 0.3. Had the competitor made a ‘no score’ at the 5th hole rather than an 8 e.g. he lost a ball and did not put another into play, the effect, for handicap purposes would have been exactly the same i.e. a nett double bogey score of 7.
By taking advantage of this clause and completing subsequent holes, competitors have the opportunity to return scores below their handicap or within their Buffer Zone even though they do not have a competition score.

Australia is very similar to the UK system. As of September 1 our max handicap is now 36.

Very interesting post. This sounds like the US ESC.

Yet just the other day one of our UK members stated here that nothing like the ESC existed in the UK handicap system.

I just thought I'd weigh in with my thoughts having played in the UK and now in New Zealand. I used to get quite hacked off with the handicap system in the UK, but it certainly does have its merits e.g., the standard scratch score for a particular day.

Most of my clubs tournaments were only on a Saturday (or midweek) but most of the time Sunday was the only day I could afford the time to play. As a result I couldn't make that much progress with my hcp. It also used to pee me off that tournaments were played off the back tees whereas normal play (unless you were a single digit player) was off the next ones forward, which made a pretty big difference at my course. So on the rare occasions I'd play in a tourney, the course took on an unfamiliar look and I had a higher chance of a stuff up.

Now i'm in New Zealand and we use an index system like the states. Our ESC is a bit different in that we can score no higher than what would get you a single stableford point. This is about to change so you 'ring it back' to what would have just got you zero stableford points e.g, 7 on a shot-hole par 4. When this happens everyone's hcp here should trend upwards slightly.

Things I like about the index system

• every course has a course rating and a slope rating so your handicap is more easily transferred with some accuracy to different tees and courses (though the course rating itself may be out of whack with reality!).
• All rounds count - if it's a casual round (i.e, short putts are conceded) then your hcp will be a bit lower than if it is competition only based, but at least you can correlate any improvement in your game with a decrease in your handicap/index.

No handicap system is going to be perfect but on balance I definitely prefer the index system to that used in the UK. Although as long as the guys you're playing with are using the same system then there should be no problems.

For the original poster, your index is calculated as 96% of your average best 10 scores, because the idea of the index system is to represent your potential, not your current ability.

ESC takes on a different form in the UK - you record your actual score and the handicap committee will do the adjustment on any horror holes. At the end of the day you'd go home and say 'I shot 88' or whatever you actually shot. I find here in NZ that you'd say something like 'i shot an adjusted 85' whereas it was really a gross 88 adjusted to 85. The 85 is what would count for your index calculation; the 88 is what would would count in a medal comp.

Most golfers in the UK belong to a club and most clubs have tournaments most weekends, so you can play a fair number of tournaments. Not all of these are big events. You can also enter some tournaments at other clubs. A player is very unlikely to play 50 casual rounds between tournaments. In fact, I don't really play casual rounds at all - I only play tournaments at the two clubs I belong to.

If you do not play enough tournament rounds in a season, your handicap can be suspended. You use your official handicap with friends or you can agree something different if you like. The convention for a match is 3/4 the difference.

You have misinterpreted the effect of 4 bad tournaments on your handicap. If you went in to those tournaments with a 9.5, you would only go to 9.9 (0.1 per bad score), not 19. In the US system, those scores don't really count if they are in the worst half of the last 20, so that seems unfair. Your bad tournament scores should count.

The problem I see is that many US players have handicaps based on friendly games where the adherence to the rules may be casual. I have played with guys who gave themselves preferred lies, teed up ahead of the marker posts, borrowed clubs and at the end said their arithmetically suspect score would help their handicap. They would have been DQ'd in a tournament. That is much less likely to happen in tournaments where the other players will keep a better eye out.

What you've described are players holding lower handicaps than they should--in other words, vanity handicaps.

That's not a problem. Said players will only hurt themselves in competitions.

What I meant by the effect of my 4 bad tourney rounds is that my other casual round would not even count as per the UK system so as far as anyone is concerned, I never played them. Hence, My handicap would only be based upon those four tourney rounds, which would be closer to a 19. I did not do exact calculation to say 19 but you catch my meaning nevertheless. Also, of course I wil not play 50 rounds between tourneys but as you may have gathered, exagerration is a big part of my writing

I also have NO reason to want to claim a lower handicap. As previous person said, that only hurts me in any game playing for money, bragging rights or tourneys. I prefer the higher handicap the is actually represetnative of my play.

Yes, I hate that my high scores do not touch my handicap and yes, I know (as I even quoted it before) that the US system is to show potential and not average play. That is great for consistent players. Unfortunately, i am not one of those so I could either play under my handicap a few strokes or 15 strokes above it. Yeah, I know...practice and get better. I am trying.

Like the guy in NZ said, I like the index system with slopes for the same reason he did.....transferability to different courses and tees. If I play a 73.8 145 rated course against a scratch golfer, it is not enought to give me 10 strokes as I will be more unfairly hurt by this difficult course compared to a scratch golfer. The slope would mean I get 12 strokes - 9.5 index multiplied by (145/113) versus scratch. From what i see of the UK system, it has no such allowance for impact of difficulty on higher handicaps.

Note: France also uses rating and slope but not sure about their handicap/index calculation methods (I know as I played there last week)

France uses essentially the UK handicapping system; i.e tournament rounds only. 0.1 increase in handicap if you play above your handicap regardless of your level, 0.1 decrease for each shot below your handicap for cat 1 players, 0.2 decrease for cat 2 players etc.

The primary difference is that we use slope and course ratings to calculate the score differential, not CSS. The course rating may be adjusted by up to three strokes by the committee based on the average of the cat 1 player scores. This usually happens when the course is set up tougher for national championships and high level scratch competitions or if there are abnormal playing conditions.

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but we also have a buffer zone. If a cat 1 player's adjusted score is within 1 shot of his handicap, his handicap will not change. For a cat 2 player, it is two shots, three shots for a cat 3 player etc.

Hi again,

I thought I'd try to start at the beginning since my I don't my last posts told the whole story. So here it goes:

Regulating bodies:

USA: USGA - rules & handicapping
All of Europe: R&A - rules
GB & Ireland: CONGU - handicapping
Continental Europe: EGA - handicapping

You've described the US handicap system better then I can. The only point I'd like to add is that the chance of a USGA index playing their handicap is about 17%, one shot better is around 9%, 2 shots better 4% and 3 or more 2%.

CONGU (Council of National Golf Unions) system:

The CONGU handicap is the handicap granted to members of golf clubs which are affiliated to the four home unions, England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.

It is based on the Stableford scoring system. A double bogey on any hole for a scratch player means 0 points for the hole (or a triple on any hole for a 18 handicap), you can't get minus points - so that's how you end up with the Nett Double Bogey Maximum concept.

Each course has a Standard Scratch Score (SSS). SSS is the score that a scratch player is expected to return in ideal conditions. This is equivalent to course rating, except it is always a round number (you can't shoot 70.4, but can score 70 for example). The allocation of SSS is the responsibility of the Home Union, for example in England the EGU determines the SSS for a course.

A golfer has to post 3 cards, attested by a club member, played according to strict rules to get a handicap. So if you score 9, 10 and 11 over on a course where a par round is the SSS you would get an exact handicap of 10.0 and a playing handicap of 10. (an exact handicap is the player’s handicap calculated to one decimal place, the playing handicap is the exact handicap calculated to the nearest whole number with 0.5 and up rounded upwards).

Their ongoing handicap is calculated using the SSS and the Competition Scratch Score (CSS) combined with a player’s scores from medal and Stableford competitions (the medal scores being converted to Stableford for handicapping purposes. CSS is the score that a scratch player is expected to return taking into account the specific conditions of the day (for example particular weather conditions). CONGU have detailed formulas used to calculate the CSS (it's basically based on what percentage of players had a nett score of the SSS+2 or better...but this is where the computer comes in, as the CSS system is weighted towards the results of players from the better handicap categories).

To calculate the new handicap after a competition, the following system is used:

Category Handicap Range Buffer Zone Reduction Per Shot Increase Per Round
1 0.1 -> 5.4 +1 -0.1 -0.1
2 5.5 -> 12.4 +2 -0.2 -0.1
3 12.5 -> 20.4 +3 -0.3 -0.1
4 20.5 -> 28.4 +4 -0.4 -0.1

So let's say our 10.0 golfer was playing and the CSS was a par round. If he gets between 33 and 36 points his handicap stays the same. 32 & under make him a 10.1. For every point over 36 his handicap is reduced by 0.2. Let's say he played great...11 pars, 6 bogeys and a birdie. 5 over par and 41 points. New handicap 9.0. When you're used to the system and not bad with figures you pretty much know where you stand straight after your round. The only variable is the CSS which you couldn't know until the very end. In the above example if the CSS was one under par, our player would then be a 9.2, if it was one over par he'd be an 8.8. In my experience the CSS is normally par or one under...so as I said you pretty much know where you stand as soon as you've signed your card.

There is a last and very important point. I think it's what you referred to when you asked in a later post if you were missing something about this system - that someone could practice a lot and improve without playing in any or enough tournaments to have this properly reflected in his handicap.

As has been stated in other posts the vast majority of golfers in GB & I are members of a club (to be honest for the regulating bodies the others probably don't exist anyway...sad but true). Under CONGU Rule 19.1 should the Handicap Committee of a player’s home club consider that a player’s exact handicap is too high and does not reflect the individual’s current playing ability, they must, subject to the provisions of the CONGU Unified Handicapping System, reduce the exact handicap to a figure considered to be appropriate. So let's go back to our 10.0 (now 9.0) golfer with his 41 points and 5 over round. The Handicap Committee could be aware or made aware of the fact that this golfer recently always gets around in about 5 over. They would then be obliged to reduce his handicap - to 5.0 if they felt appropriate.

The maximum handicap allowed under CONGU is 28 for men and 36 for ladies.

This took too long to write but I hope it explains everything properly.

A quick word on the EGA system. They basically modified the British system. It's Stableford based (so the nett double bogey thing applies) but they adopted the USGA course rating and slope system instead of SSS. If you go into a clubhouse in Germany for example you'll always find a table that shows how many shots each handicap gets from differing sets of tees at that course. So handicaps 14.7 - 15.6 may get 17 from the back tees and 16 from the members' tees for example. The system is also basically competition based and instead of CSS they have CSA (Competition Stableford Adjustment). It is also a very complicated system by which a computer uses a formula to evaluate all the nett scores from the competition to decide if the course played to par or a shot or two easier or harder. Alphabet soup CSS/CSA - the 2 systems are basically the same. I say basically competition based because under EGA rules, handicaps of 4.5 or above, can register for an Extra Day Score at their club. They have to register in a list and then are obliged to return a card. I think this works like one of the first 3 rounds in the CONGU system.

Final summary - IMHO the British system is the toughest. Once you've got your handicap with your 3 cards, it's purely competition based. You've got to do it under the gun, often playing with strangers who want to beat you more than anything. There are just less opportunities to cheat, mark your score on a hole wrongly or even make an honest mistake with the rules etc.. You know that every shot counts and you can't disappear after the round and pretend you weren't there. In the US I've often heard the concept of someone being a good 3 or 5. Under the CONGU system if you're a 3 or a 5 you are good. As for the EGA system, I'm very sceptical about the extra score days - they'd be a nice idea if everyone played in the spirit of the game. But I've played with many people in Germany who were simply not as good as their handicaps. You can more often than not see when someone's having a bad day and not playing to their normal level. These people either returned grossly flawed cards in tournaments or (ab)used extra score days.,As to slope helping you play a fairer match against someone significantly better or worse than you on a tough layout...there's no arguing - it's an advantage.

Hope this helped and I haven't bored you to death.

Matthew

Vanity handicaps are a global issue, and I agree - it is to the players detriment.

What I meant is that the US system seems to biased to give lower handicaps, particularly for the mid and high players. The best 10 of 20 may be the reason. Why not average of all x a (lower than 0.96) multiplier?

I think the course ratings are also sometimes a bit inflated.

Sometimes here there is a post where a 9 handicap says he has never broken 80 (or a 3 who has never broken par). Neither player would not hold those handicaps in the UK.

By the way, this is not saying either system is inherently good or bad - they are different, and their arithmetical properties will, not surprisingly, give different results.

1plane.......

wow! Thank you for taking such time for the detailed response!!!

I now understand the UK system and mostly the European except you introduced a concept I do not understand....the "Extra Day Score".

The idea of it all is great and yes, you get "sandbaggers" here in the US but in the end, this is a game of honor, and if someone is going to cheat to claim a higher handicap (falsely claiming a lower on is stupid because you are penalized when playing competitions), then that is really their problem. If I am soooo concerned about that, then either get the tournament committee incolved or get better so i am in thhchampionship flight with NO handicaps. Then whether a 2 or +2, it is still score vs score with no deduuctions. However, I am not there so I can only play my game and not worry about others. I am not there to brag about my game. I would rather my game speak for itself and it is speaks like someone with pneumonia, so be it, if it speaks like someone thinking of the mini tours, then that is great too.

The main advantage in the US system is that ALL rounds count. Yes, it allow cheating but (see above paragraph) oh well. I would rather have a representative of how I really play than only tournament rounds.

The UK system does have it's draw backs,

For example when we play comps at the weekends there is 3 league's

1. 0-12
2. 13-20
3. 21-28

So i play off 9 yet 2 weeks ago i shot a 1 over par 72, but my handicap was not reduced due to the fact that my Net score was a 63 and i play in the first league, BUT a 28 handicap shot an 88 which was a NET 60 (league 3 ), 3 less than me so SS was reduced and i wasn't cut but he was!!!!!!!!!

Thats the main draw back

In a sense, I think you're correct that the USGA system will give lower handicaps then those expected by an average of all scores.

However (if my memory serves correct), this is due to the assumptions that 1) better players should have a slight advantage, and 2) fairness isn't served by straight averages as poorer players have larger scoring bands--in other words, poorer players post scores lower than their averages than better players generally do. (20 handicap--based on average of all scores--might shoot 15 strokes below their average. Not many scratch golfers will shoot 15 strokes below their handicap.)

Can't agree with you more that it is/should be a game of honour. Funnily in Germany, Sandbaggers or Bandits really aren't a problem. People shoot themselves in the foot in competitions by having vanity or ego handicaps they can't ever play to (that I believe they organise in Extra Score Days). Crazy really because the prizes you can win over here in club competitions are much better than in England.

Extra Score Days are an EGA (European Golf Association) concept applicable in Europe that allows golfers to post scores from non-competition rounds for handicap purposes. You're meant to play according to the rules, and so that you can't say after the round that you didn't want the score to count, you have to register the round before you play it. Then you play your round with your friends or whatever and hand in your scorecard. More than 36 points and your handicap is going down...you don't even have to worry about the conditions on the day adjusting your score, since there is no competition so the CSA system doesn't apply. This is a compromise on the strict British competition only system.

As for every round counting giving a truer representation of how you normally play...you're right of course. The one thing about the British system though...it generally gives you a very good indication of how someone plays under a bit of pressure.

Aussie system sounds similar to the UK - no ESC.

Briefly, we define par of the course for the day to be the nett score that 1/8th of the field beat or equaled. So for a large field, around 13% would play to their handicap or better.

It does transfer to other courses well as your handicap is always calculated relative to the rest of the field, not to the course. Our 'par for the day' inherently handles course conditions (fairway roll, cored-greens etc), tee positions and weather conditions.

But also like the UK, we play a very different game than you do in the States that makes this possible. Most keen, established players join clubs and predominantly play competition golf. Once you get used to the higher standard of etiquette in competition golf, playing a social round can be tough on the patience, especially inexpensive rounds. Plus peak time, Saturday morning, is reserved for competition. Anyone who isn't a member of a club does not hold a true Australian handicap.

There is no choosing of which cards get used for handicapping. Don't submit a poor round and your handicap will increase just the same as if you did submit it. Don't submit a good card and your handicap will increase as well, but missing out on a potential competition prize discourages this. It is not uncommon for golf balls to be awarded to players even slightly playing under their handicap.

Social rounds, or Extra Day Scores can only be submitted for initially obtaining a handicap or keeping it alive if you've played insufficient competition rounds. Even they must be marked by someone with an official handicap.

The main type of sandbaggers we get are the guys who keep a high handicap and concentrate on events that don't reduce their handicap if they play well - foursomes, scrambles and other team events.