I have a question about hitting again from the tee box when your first ball goes some place bad.
Like, many times if I hit a ball and it hooks or slices way far (like over the fairway on the hole next to the one I'm playing) I will forego that ball and just hit again from the tee. Now, normally I treat this as a provisional with no intent of looking for my other ball. Then once I hit this 2nd ball again, it becomes the ball in play. I take my one stroke.
I didn't play like this before, I always played ..."you have to go looking for your ball." But I saw on some show where they didn't do that... the oposing team found the ball, but the team that hit it didn't even look for it. It was ruled that since it was found, they would have to play it.
So my question is... is this legal? Another friend says, if I do that, I shouldn't be able to tee it up again. Is there a certain amount of time I have to look for my other ball? ...I mean, do I have to try hard to find it? Or can I just drive down my fairway and look over at the other fairway and say "well, I don't see it...going to my provisional."
I know pretty much any shot you can hit from your original location (adding a stroke)...and many times I don't even take the distance on a hazard, I just hit again from my original location.
But when it's the tee box and I hit again...can I tee up that 2nd shot? Or is that wrong?
Twist
Full Version: Provisionals, Substituted, etc...
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The whole point of the provisional is to save time. Otherwise, you would have to walk/drive back 200+ yards to the tee box and tee again. I don't think it's necessary to actually hunt your first ball. The downside to that is, your first shot may be in a spot that's not too bad and you are giving up that position and taking an extra stroke to play your provisional. I always hunt for mine just in case it's not as bad as I thought.
As far as your first ball being found: once you strike your provisional ball a second time (playing your 4th stroke), the provisional ball is now the ball in play and your first ball is no longer valid.
As far as your first ball being found: once you strike your provisional ball a second time (playing your 4th stroke), the provisional ball is now the ball in play and your first ball is no longer valid.
my thoughts. i think this is accurate, but i make no guarentees, and i'm not gonna look it up and quote the rules.
if you don't plan to look for the ball, you can rehit from the tee (teeing it up) incurring the penalty of stroke and distance, which means you're hitting 3. you can just declare the ball lost. in this situation the second ball is not a provisional. the original ball is taken out of play when you declare, and the second ball is in play as soon as it's hit. you don't have to look for the ball, and if it's found, it doesn't matter. it's already out of play and the second ball is in play. use this method if you really don't plan on looking for it, but remember if the first ball hit a tree and is in the middle of the fairway and you find it, you cannot play it, it's out of play and the second ball is in play.
the problem with playing a provisional is that it's a provisional for the purpose that you establish it. for example, you hit in some tall grass and think you may not find it. so, you play a (lost ball) provisional. you look for the first ball and find it, but it's in really bad shape. you can declare it uplayable and rehit from the tee. however, you cannot use the provisional ball already in play, as it was a lost ball provisional, and you're ball is not lost.
as far as your declaring a lost ball a provisional and not looking for the original. i think that's fine. there's no minimum search that you must conduct. now, if the other team finds the ball, you cannot declare it lost and play the second ball, because it's not lost. but, you can declare it unplayable and go back to the tee and hit again. they cannot make you play it from there.
if you don't plan to look for the ball, you can rehit from the tee (teeing it up) incurring the penalty of stroke and distance, which means you're hitting 3. you can just declare the ball lost. in this situation the second ball is not a provisional. the original ball is taken out of play when you declare, and the second ball is in play as soon as it's hit. you don't have to look for the ball, and if it's found, it doesn't matter. it's already out of play and the second ball is in play. use this method if you really don't plan on looking for it, but remember if the first ball hit a tree and is in the middle of the fairway and you find it, you cannot play it, it's out of play and the second ball is in play.
the problem with playing a provisional is that it's a provisional for the purpose that you establish it. for example, you hit in some tall grass and think you may not find it. so, you play a (lost ball) provisional. you look for the first ball and find it, but it's in really bad shape. you can declare it uplayable and rehit from the tee. however, you cannot use the provisional ball already in play, as it was a lost ball provisional, and you're ball is not lost.
as far as your declaring a lost ball a provisional and not looking for the original. i think that's fine. there's no minimum search that you must conduct. now, if the other team finds the ball, you cannot declare it lost and play the second ball, because it's not lost. but, you can declare it unplayable and go back to the tee and hit again. they cannot make you play it from there.
Actually I believe it's once your provisional ball advances further than where your "original" ball would've been AND THEN HIT...then your provisional would be the ball in play.
And you don't HAVE to play a "provisonal" you can abandon your first ball and rehit taking stroke and distance anytime you want. The downside being your original ball might be "ok" and you've taken a substancial penalty for no reason.
E.g. off the tee you hit into the woods....if you don't play/declare a provisional you are now teeing up 3. If you play a provisional and then find your ball in the trees and have an easy chip out. You are hitting 3 250+ yards (whatever you hit your drives) down the hole instead of at the teebox.
Granted in most tournaments I play in, we hit provisionals and don't look too hard if we think our original ball is in jail. If the trees or whatever is pretty light and we'd have a shot out, we'll look extra hard....if it's heavy and we won't have a shot at all....we don't bother looking.
That being said, some playing partners might search extra hard for you....and although a poor move, they are well in their right to do so.
And you don't HAVE to play a "provisonal" you can abandon your first ball and rehit taking stroke and distance anytime you want. The downside being your original ball might be "ok" and you've taken a substancial penalty for no reason.
E.g. off the tee you hit into the woods....if you don't play/declare a provisional you are now teeing up 3. If you play a provisional and then find your ball in the trees and have an easy chip out. You are hitting 3 250+ yards (whatever you hit your drives) down the hole instead of at the teebox.
Granted in most tournaments I play in, we hit provisionals and don't look too hard if we think our original ball is in jail. If the trees or whatever is pretty light and we'd have a shot out, we'll look extra hard....if it's heavy and we won't have a shot at all....we don't bother looking.
That being said, some playing partners might search extra hard for you....and although a poor move, they are well in their right to do so.
Kudos to hbear on playing the provisional until your expected distance from the original ball. I was not aware of that.
From the USGA rulebook:
27-2. Provisional Ball
a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.
(Order of play from teeing ground - see Rule 10-3.)
Note: If a provisional ball played under Rule 27-2a might be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds, the player may play another provisional ball. If another provisional ball is played, it bears the same relationship to the previous provisional ball as the first provisional ball bears to the original ball.
b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play
The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).
If the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play, under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).
If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball is in a water hazard, the player must proceed in accordance with Rule 26-1.
Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball is in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1c), the player may proceed under the applicable Rule.
c. When Provisional Ball to Be Abandoned
If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and the provisions of Rule 15-3 apply.
Note: If a player plays a provisional ball under Rule 27-2a, the strokes made after this Rule has been invoked with a provisional ball subsequently abandoned under Rule 27-2c and penalty strokes incurred solely by playing that ball are disregarded.
From the USGA rulebook:
27-2. Provisional Ball
a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.
(Order of play from teeing ground - see Rule 10-3.)
Note: If a provisional ball played under Rule 27-2a might be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds, the player may play another provisional ball. If another provisional ball is played, it bears the same relationship to the previous provisional ball as the first provisional ball bears to the original ball.
b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play
The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).
If the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play, under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).
If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball is in a water hazard, the player must proceed in accordance with Rule 26-1.
Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball is in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1c), the player may proceed under the applicable Rule.
c. When Provisional Ball to Be Abandoned
If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and the provisions of Rule 15-3 apply.
Note: If a player plays a provisional ball under Rule 27-2a, the strokes made after this Rule has been invoked with a provisional ball subsequently abandoned under Rule 27-2c and penalty strokes incurred solely by playing that ball are disregarded.
Ok, so I'm clear...
You guys don't see any problem with hitting a provisional ...and never looking for my first ball. (however, if someone finds my first ball, it's back in play...unless I hurry to my provisional and hit again...being past where the first one is, then the provisional becomes in play)
But what about this situation... I tee up a shot (iron or driver, whatever) and I shank it into the water, and I want to hit from the tee again and forego the distance I would receive. Can I tee up again? Mainly this would be for when I use driver or some wood, but would be nice to tee up a long iron as well. So if I didn't want to take the distance and I wanted to hit again from the tee, would I have to switch to an iron and not tee up if the ball in fact went into the water?
You guys don't see any problem with hitting a provisional ...and never looking for my first ball. (however, if someone finds my first ball, it's back in play...unless I hurry to my provisional and hit again...being past where the first one is, then the provisional becomes in play)
But what about this situation... I tee up a shot (iron or driver, whatever) and I shank it into the water, and I want to hit from the tee again and forego the distance I would receive. Can I tee up again? Mainly this would be for when I use driver or some wood, but would be nice to tee up a long iron as well. So if I didn't want to take the distance and I wanted to hit again from the tee, would I have to switch to an iron and not tee up if the ball in fact went into the water?
QUOTE(777twist @ Jul 21 2008, 09:38 AM) 
Ok, so I'm clear...
You guys don't see any problem with hitting a provisional ...and never looking for my first ball. (however, if someone finds my first ball, it's back in play...unless I hurry to my provisional and hit again...being past where the first one is, then the provisional becomes in play)
But what about this situation... I tee up a shot (iron or driver, whatever) and I shank it into the water, and I want to hit from the tee again and forego the distance I would receive. Can I tee up again? Mainly this would be for when I use driver or some wood, but would be nice to tee up a long iron as well. So if I didn't want to take the distance and I wanted to hit again from the tee, would I have to switch to an iron and not tee up if the ball in fact went into the water?
You guys don't see any problem with hitting a provisional ...and never looking for my first ball. (however, if someone finds my first ball, it's back in play...unless I hurry to my provisional and hit again...being past where the first one is, then the provisional becomes in play)
But what about this situation... I tee up a shot (iron or driver, whatever) and I shank it into the water, and I want to hit from the tee again and forego the distance I would receive. Can I tee up again? Mainly this would be for when I use driver or some wood, but would be nice to tee up a long iron as well. So if I didn't want to take the distance and I wanted to hit again from the tee, would I have to switch to an iron and not tee up if the ball in fact went into the water?
I beleive that is fine since it's stroke and distance. But I'm not an expert and may be wrong.
QUOTE(777twist @ Jul 21 2008, 09:38 AM)
Ok, so I'm clear...
You guys don't see any problem with hitting a provisional ...and never looking for my first ball. (however, if someone finds my first ball, it's back in play...unless I hurry to my provisional and hit again...being past where the first one is, then the provisional becomes in play)
But what about this situation... I tee up a shot (iron or driver, whatever) and I shank it into the water, and I want to hit from the tee again and forego the distance I would receive. Can I tee up again? Mainly this would be for when I use driver or some wood, but would be nice to tee up a long iron as well. So if I didn't want to take the distance and I wanted to hit again from the tee, would I have to switch to an iron and not tee up if the ball in fact went into the water?
You guys don't see any problem with hitting a provisional ...and never looking for my first ball. (however, if someone finds my first ball, it's back in play...unless I hurry to my provisional and hit again...being past where the first one is, then the provisional becomes in play)
But what about this situation... I tee up a shot (iron or driver, whatever) and I shank it into the water, and I want to hit from the tee again and forego the distance I would receive. Can I tee up again? Mainly this would be for when I use driver or some wood, but would be nice to tee up a long iron as well. So if I didn't want to take the distance and I wanted to hit again from the tee, would I have to switch to an iron and not tee up if the ball in fact went into the water?
Yes, you can tee it up again.
Yup you can ALWAYS rehit from the same spot under penalty of stroke and distance.
Even from the putting green....e.g. Tiger at the Masters when he putt his ball off the green into the water.
Instead of playing from the water hazard, or taking a drop from the hazard, he elected to place his ball on the green where he originally putt from and play from there.
VERY smart and something I know most guys wouldn't know they could do.
Even from the putting green....e.g. Tiger at the Masters when he putt his ball off the green into the water.
Instead of playing from the water hazard, or taking a drop from the hazard, he elected to place his ball on the green where he originally putt from and play from there.
VERY smart and something I know most guys wouldn't know they could do.
QUOTE(hbear @ Jul 21 2008, 12:09 PM)
Yup you can ALWAYS rehit from the same spot under penalty of stroke and distance.
Even from the putting green....e.g. Tiger at the Masters when he putt his ball off the green into the water.
Instead of playing from the water hazard, or taking a drop from the hazard, he elected to place his ball on the green where he originally putt from and play from there.
VERY smart and something I know most guys wouldn't know they could do.
Even from the putting green....e.g. Tiger at the Masters when he putt his ball off the green into the water.
Instead of playing from the water hazard, or taking a drop from the hazard, he elected to place his ball on the green where he originally putt from and play from there.
VERY smart and something I know most guys wouldn't know they could do.
knowing the rules of golf can really help your scores, in general.
This is an excellent example.
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