Hi guys, first post... I've read a lot of yours, and I have learned a lot.

Let me first say that I hate slow play too! However, my wife thinks it takes me a little too long to pull the trigger, and that makes me look slow. I'm a 9 handicap, so I'm not clueless, I have a routine. I walk our course in 3.5 hours, and it's rated 4.5 when I'm a single or double... Now with that out of the way...

This weekend, I played with my dad, my father-in-law, and one of my f.i.l.'s friend. These guys are old, but they are ok for the most part. However, you can't bet on all of them to hit a good shot all at the same time.

We had a 3-some in front of us that got a hole ahead around the turn. We were 5 minutes behind the course's 4 hour pace at that point, and the ranger spoke to us. We had not been pushed by the 3-some behind us yet. I was acutely aware of all this, because I was kind of sheparding the old guys, just in case one of their minds were to wander.

We didn't lose any more time at this point, but didn't make up any either. This course had lots of hills, lots of trouble and undulated greens (it's a Donald Ross). I found myself questioning the 4-hour pace - it seemed like it would take a lot of gimmes to get to 4-hours even with my regular golf buddies. I may have just been a little frustrated though.

Get to a par-5 on the back and one guy behind us hits it about 230 off the tee and is 270 out. I am chipping on my 3rd shot, and he starts gesturing like we are really holding him up. Ok, I'm trying to keep our group fast enough, but ya gotta understand on a par-5 if you are going for it, you might have to wait. (His shot landed 100 yards short, as I noticed from the next tee.)

So, we get to a par-3 over water and 3 of us make par. I want to let this 3-some through, but we also had 3 kick-ins by the time they got to the tee. We walk halfway to the next tee.

One of their guys hits it into water, so we move on. Next hole is a little uphill, kind of blind landing area. I pop one out there about 260, directly in the line of flight of my father-in-law, so I can't really play ready this time. As I am setting up I hear a wizzzzz. I look up and there is a drive headed right at my father's head. I yelled duck, and the ball went over his head, missing him by about 3 feet. I have never seen anything like it on the golf course. A flush drive falling from it's apex right at my dad. The ball even plugged.

I went back until they could see me over the hill and waved. These guys (one is very big) start yelling "effing this and effing that". I couldn't believe they weren't the least bit sorry. In fact, they meant to do this.

I saw the ranger on the next hole and he said we should expect something like that if we were 5 minutes behind. I told him that while we got a little behind, we were no longer playing slowly, and that 5 minutes shouldn't be punished with a potential trip to the hospital. He stuck to his guns and said it never would have happened if we were on pace. Then he tells me that the guy behind me is pretty big, and I should have never given him the finger (which I didn't do...). Now the ranger is stirring the pot.

I felt really angry about this, and I want to write a letter to the course. Do you think I am justified? I mean 4:05 pace isn't horrible. I think those guys were probably stewing about the old guys in front of them and looking for a fight. They only waited a couple times. I think the ranger should be concerned with safety before caring about the 5 minutes.

I know everyone hates slow play, but there are ways to address the situation. Two weekends ago we were on a 6 hour pace due to a slow group, so I called the pro shop. It didn't even cross my mind to hit one of them with a ball.

If your recollection is accurate I suspect you can make it very ugly for them (or at least make them THINK it could get ugly for them )

Thanks for your reply. Who is the "them" you are refering to? Sorry, I didn't quite catch your drift there.

specifically the Club.


As you said they should be more concerned with safety. After all, a failure to commit to safety could turn out far worse for them

That's ridiculous. Slow play used to bother me, but I've got used to it now, so I just let it blow over if I can. If someone's an hour behind pace, there's nothing to justify hitting into people. Five minutes is nothing. I'm glad you and yours are okay - good job you saw the ball coming. I've been putting out before when someone on another hole hit it onto our green through some trees, so he didn't know we were there. It was like a line drive that bounced over my head. Took me a good while to calm down after that. It's bloody scary. Yikes.

I'm also stunned at the ranger's reaction. A strongly worded letter to the club might be in order and perhaps a copy to a local golf rag if you have one.

Guys like the ones behind you deserve to be shot. They could have killed someone. The real problem in this case is that the ranger sided with them!

I have come across this more then I'd like. Rangers that are more concerned with the pace of play than the safety of the golfers. I actually had one ranger say to me when I was waiting for a group to get out of range, "just hit a warning shot their way to get them moving." I proceeded to explain to him that intentionally hitting a 100+mph projectile at someone can be grounds for jail time. Knowing that it was not a course I planned to ever play at again (for a lot of reasons), I told the ranger after the round (in front of many people in the clubhouse) that he was a terrible ranger that put the golfers at unnecessary risk and that if he knew anything about doing his job people wouldn't have to "fire warning shots."

I know I am going to get attacked by all the current and former rangers on this site, but keep in mind, I am not saying all rangers are bad. The vast majority do an amazing and invaluable job, but there are those out there who are completely clueless and just plain stupid!

I would most certainly write to the course!

Steve I think we both had the same group behind us, this little adventure happened to me on the 4th. 4:05 is not a horrible pace, plus I would never expect to get hit into on purpose. The marshall was out of line and if it got that bad he should have just facilitated that group playing through, so everyone could move on with their round. I would most certainly complain to the course

I was playing this morning, the course is packed since everyone wants to get out before it hits 110 deg. Not to blame anyone but, we are looking at a 5+ hr round, understandibly frustrating for everyone.
We do our part and keep up with the group ahead of us never getting more than 1/2 hole behind. Even playing from the back tees(yes we should be playing those) Behind us are 2 fathers and 3 kids best guess ages 12-17.
We get to the back 9 and one of them just pipes one right into our 4 some (no big deal they yelled fore) we are thinking maybe one of the kids really gets ahold of one or something and move on.
Three holes later on 17 short par 5 we have to wait for the green to clear since 3 of us have 195-215 left to the pin. not only do they hit one into us but a second one right at us again, this time its clear as day what they are doing, we are in the middle of the fairway in plain sight plus I'm wearing a bright orange FJ shirt (cant miss it). We decided not to tee it up and smash it right back at them, we just play on. Naturaly we all slow down a bit on purpose now.
Fast forward and the round is over I tell father #1 (when he is away from the kids) that he is doing a great job teaching his kids golf etiquette (heavy sarcasm) He blows up and starts calling me a D bag and swearing saying we should have played faster etc etc. basically blaming their horrible etiquette on us like it is justifiable.
After some more sarcasm from me ie: jez no wonder where they get their manners etc etc: I remind him that we were right with the group ahead of us for all but the last hole and 1/2 since we had to let the green clear. He goes on his D bag tirade again followed by some more F u's etc. Now the thought enters my mind do I really want to beat this guy down on the course . Logic and the thought of stooping to that level prevail
Then one of the best lines I have heard on the course comes out of him. "Just cause my kid can hit it farther than you stop your b**chn. I laugh as I ask how much closer are the white tees again? Not to get into a pissing match between me and baby tiger there, but there is quite a difference between 6900 and 5500 yrds from where they were playing and we all hit 3wd since the fairway ended at 265 yrds out.
Anyways sorry for the long rant. I had to get it off my chest, and it just really irks me that there are parents out there that would encourage their kids to have absolutley zero etiquette and encourage this behavior on the course.

You are totally in the right. Write the letter, to the pro shop and copy the G.M. or management company. Being between two threesomes you are bound to get out of position at one point. As long as you are on the 4hr. +/- 10 minutes pace there should be no issue. The Ranger should be disciplined. He is there to deter conflict and maintain pace of play. Your group was already warned, the group behind should have been informed.

Boycott the course if your feelings are that strong towards their policies.

Thanks for the support. I think there is some kind of stigma these days in golf. Once someone says you are a slow group, you have no way to defend yourself. That presents an opportunity for the hot heads to freak out.

There are a lot of times that I'm playing faster than the group in front of me, and I get annoyed. However, most of those times, they aren't actually playing slowly, they are just throwing me off of my tempo. I think these 3 guys probably got their shorts in a wad waiting on that par 5, even though we weren't actually slow at that point.

...When we called the pro shop 2 weeks ago due to getting through 3 holes in 1:15, the ranger came out and told us not to do his job! We were also on a par 5, and I wanted to go for it. He stands over us and makes the statement, "you guys have been watching too much g-d golf on TV. just hit it." Took a second to cool down, go through my routine and hit a 4 iron onto the green. Acutally, if I had been rattled, I probably would have engaged with him.

Too many people looking for a fight...

What part of the country do you play in?

If I were the manager and i heard something like this, first I'd investigate...if I found it to be accurate, I'd fire the ranger on the spot.

That's ridiculous.

-mini

It was the weekend, you were in a foursome. . .4.5 is NO WHERE NEAR slow enough to expect someone buzzing a drive at your heads.

Personally I would have thrown his ball in a pond or over a fence or something. Its not like he "Accidentally" hit it in your direction.

As far as the course ranger. . .sounds to me like the guys behind you probably had his cell#, or they simply knew each other, hard to tell. But he was obviously on their side for some reason.

I would talk to whomever's in charge at the course. Forget a letter, walk in there, say "I'd like to speak to someone in charge!"

Did you get the ranger's name? That's useful too.

If you expect to play a round of golf on the weekend in under 4 hours, you're expecting too much. . .So the guys behind you should have been talked to as far as I'm concerned.

I realize we are hearing one side of the story... If your facts are accurate I agree with MiniTour 110%. Speak with the Head Professional, but please do so in a manner in which you would like to be spoken to. A good Professional would want to hear your facts, and will be anxious to rectify the situation. He is on your side. Slow play complaints are totally unwarranted when you are discussing a 4 hour and 5 minute round. Any public golf course I have played would feel anything under 4:15 during a busy day is exceptional.

Kevin

KevCarter has the right idea. A good professional will want to know about this and work to rectify the situation after investigating.

In addition, there is never a reason to use violent methods to get your point across. I would have been horrified if someone had tried to hit my father in the head. The course is no place for that sort of behavior.

My thoughts on slow play.. i am one of the faster golfers out there so i have to wait a ton. for me the 2.15 hour 9 hole pace is what should be done at a maximum if there is no one in front of you. When people go out to golf they have to expect to spend 4:30 on a round and on a crowded day 5 hours. i think over 5 hours shouldn't happen though. For me if someone is a little slow in front of me it depends on there etiquite. are they not making an effort to keep pace.
1. are all four of them walking to the same ball together and waiting. (you should prepare for your shot as long as it doesn't impede with the other players behind you)
2. are they stopping for drinks when they are supposed to be teeing off? (tee off and then talk to the cart girl)
3. If you are at your 10th shot and you still aren't to the green. (pick up at this point)
4. any other activities besides golf...


on sunday I teed off on the first hole(par4) after we putted out we walk to the next tee box and so does one of the guys in the group in front of us with a latte. The problem is that this next hole is a par 5 (now clear all the way) and instead of moving the course along we have to now wait for him to tee off. this backed the course up for about 5 holes and after the 9th he quit.

For whatever reason I dont think this is exactly what happened. I hate slow play and have played 18 holes in a cart in less than 1.5 hours. I've never intentionally hit into someone, seems a bit childish. If your story is true then its absolutely ridiculous on the part of the course, ranger, and the group behind you. However if you were holding this group up ALL day or even for the 5-6 holes on the back 9 then you were wrong. I suppose it depends if you were keeping up with the group in front of you or not but anything over 4 hours when you're not waiting is flat our slow. I play on the weekend mornings around 7 and usually were the first group out, sometimes the 2nd or 3rd but the people in front are usually long gone by the time we tee off. My 4some plays under 3 hours every single time.

I'd love get through 18 holes with a group in 4:05... even 4:30!! 5:00 is the norm in my area during peak hours.

You should definately report it to the course. Most rangers are joke, killing thier time commitment so they can play free or reduced fee golf.

This is why running a club is sometimes so difficult. Two very intelligent gentlemen who are avid golfers, enjoy the game, and have TOTALLY opposing viewpoints on the proper pace of play. If you were the professional at a club and these two gentlemen were members, you would be constantly confronted by one of them as to how the pace of play is being monitored. No way to keep them both happy...

Kevin

This still doesn't justify the guy hitting into the group ahead of him. There are better ways to handle the situation, even if the OPs group was well off the designated pace of play.

BDLz

First off, was this a muni course? If so taxpayer money goes toward it and you can really cause that employee some sh.. if you choose to.

If not, then you may just have to talk to the GM or maybe even get the media involved.

Hitting into people, is never a good idea. It's going to happen sometimes on blind holes and I don't know what to do about that (especially for those walking, cart riders I guess could drive up and check) but never should someone rocket a ball the distance they know the people are standing at.

Accidents are going to happen, you may hit a ball a yardage you didn't think you could, whether the wind is helping or you just some how some way summoned your inner-Tiger. I have hit into people before, but it's always been by accident. Either I listed to Lie-Caddy or again my inner-Tiger unleashed a swing I have never done before. I always apologize though.

I played with two guys the other day and one of the guys said if you don't press them they won't go any faster. But the truth is, even with us hitting as soon as they left our range, it didn't do any good. They didn't play any faster.

You know Steve, I don't know how big you are or what kind of sack you have, but I would have grabbed an iron and rocketed his ball back his way. That would have really pissed him off. And if he approached me, well, he better be prapared to ...well, lets not get into that.

See, the problem is ...what is pace and who says what is a good pace. I hear 4 hours is the proper pace, but who says and what handicap is that and how long is the course?

I know good golfers would rather a bad golfer just pick up when they hit a certain number of strokes...but the game of golf is about holing out your ball...it's not golf if it's not by the rules. So if I pay to play a round of golf and I end up hitting a 10 on every hole and it takes me 4.5 hours to do that with my foursome...what's wrong with that?

Why don't courses setup days and times for different types of handicaps? Like, no-handicap sunday or to play before noon, you must have an established handicap of 15 or better.

Granted, I guess everyone could just lie...which may make the system even worse. I don't know... I don't have the slow play answers.

But seriously, this would be akin to telling someone .... I'm sorry, you can't finish watching the Lord of the Rings movie because most movies are only 90 mins and this one is 180 min, please leave the theater, and learn to watch shorter movies!

But I also don't think someone should be able to just stay out there for ever either. But again, how was the pace of play number figured? Who came up with it? What's it based on? Maybe there should just be a formula and it should be something that accounts for how many new golfers join each year. Back in the day, how many golfers were there compared to today?

Ill bet you still do it Kev.

Pace is a very volatile issue. Personally, I dont care if you are made to wait 2 months to hit ONE shot.....hitting a golf ball intentionally at a living creature (never mind a human being) is criminal. These little golf balls can do BIG BIG damage, and you can be held responsible, PERIOD.

Now as to pace of play, we all have our tempo, and our personal rythym. It is rarely the same for 2 people, and one slow guy can slow down a whole group, but being the 4some between two smaller groups is a recipe for disaster. I can walk 18 in sub 3 hours, when not impeded, but like everyone else i occasionally endure a 5 hour round. I, too, hate it, but all in all id rather endure 5 hours of slow golf than 5 hours of brisk paced work....

we all need to relax a bit. if things slow down...smell a flower, clean an iron, wash your balls (golf balls!!). whatever, but dont get pissed off at the idiots in front of you who are probably just as pissed off as the idiots in front of them.

I'm in the same business as you Kevin so I know what you are saying. I'm the one who used to hear the complaining, my current job is still golf related but not at an actual course. However still get privelidges of golf at the course I used to work. Although I often play at a different place (same town) but do absolutely no complaining because I know the problems with it. I also haven't seen slow play where I do play my one serious round for the week because I'm the first group off. I play Sunday mornings (my day off) with a couple guys who are good players and whom I've met from working around this area. I do however skip around and play holes the days I do work because I usually only have an hour or so of time to work with. Just some of the stuff I've seen from players and how bad slow play is becoming in this game. Now if I just walked up to play golf on the weekend with a couple friends then I would plan to play in 4 hours (knowing this probably isn't reasonable) but expect to be done in 4:30 or else that it just too SLOW.

I think the PGA Tour has really hurt the way a majority of golfers view the game. Its acceptable for them to play 5 hour rounds so you see guys doing the same things as touring professionals. IMHO I think if you have a foursome walking on the first group of the day or a foursome thats not being held up at all then there is no explanation for finishing a round in more than 4 hours.

I guess my post does come off a bit stupid when I re-read it. I've never hit a golf ball at anyone on purpose, ever. I did say he was wrong if he was holding up the group behind him but I didn't mean that it was OK to just hit a golf ball at him...obviously thats never ok. I meant he was wrong for not letting the group go through, not wrong in that he should expect people to hit golf balls at his group. However I've heard about this many times and it doesn't surprise me one bit.

IMO, a lot of people act like they own the course sometimes and feel that they should do something about it instead of calling the head pro or the marshall and let them do their work. I play in a public course. I've seen a few of these incidents and watching these guys behave sometimes makes you think why they call this a gentleman's game. I play with my 15 year old son now and when this happens, I just tell him that's exactly how you don't want to behave in a golf course. We have to remember that for everybody's enjoyment.

You should probably write a strong letter of complaint to the golf course particularly about the ranger's behavior.

My answer to the ranger would have been more direct.

"Please give me your name, phone number, and the name of your insurance company, because when I have to wait for the group in front of me tomorrow and I nail someone in the head, I'm sure they will feel better knowing you are going to pay for it, because you just authorized me to do it.

Do you work tomorrow?"


Then when I get to the pro shop, I go to the cash register and ask for the name and phone number of the ranger. When they ask why, tell them; the ranger authorized me to hit into the group ahead of me if they fall behind.

Can you say "LIABILITY?"

bye bye Mr. Ranger

When I mentioned that to you a couple of days ago you called me pompous.

Damn, I told myself to stop replying to you...

Kevin

Many years ago my first day on the job as and assisstant at a private club. The Pro sat me down and explained what my job was.

He basically told me that the members came out here to have fun, they came here to get a way from hassles of any kind.

My job was to make everything go as smooth as possible.

For people that played fast I had to convince them I was speeding up the slow group in front of them.

To the slow group I had to nudge them with out ruining there relaxing. A lot of the time I road a round in the cart and said nothing to anyone.

They new I was marshalling if I road up to them they would start apologizing and explainging I would just agree with them

It was like politics I felt like the Govenor in the best little whore house in texas doing a little side step.


It was a very difficult job but not so bad as long as I remember the first rule they were there to have fun.

As far as rangers at muni's and some other clubs I have seen they have no training for the most part and the buddy system is in effect. Plus some are idiots.

I once had and idiot tell me to keep the cart on the cart path on a hole there was no cartpath it runs out about two hundred yards from the tee.

Honestly I would have never left the club without a peace of sombodys behind if that had happened to me If I had not already got into it with the lug that hit in to you.

I just do not play that you hit in to me I get very upset.

I would at this point right a letter and send a copy of it to the local newspaper.

Maybe they will think about training there rangers.

At the same time any club trying to enforce a strict time policy is nuts anyway and more worried about green fees than happy customers.

Too many variables can come up.

Ken

Absolutely I do it, it's part of my job... The key is letting everybody know you are doing your best to make them all happy. If the club policy is 4 hours, you need to stand behind that and use it for your motivation.

Kevin

Wow, lots of responses!

I agree - you guys only got my side of the story. Finishing in 4:05 when recommended time was 4:00 is exactly true. The fact that my dad almost got pegged with a drive is exactly true. The ranger did put the blame on us, which is how this whole thing became totally mindblowing to me. As far as tampering with the ball hit at us, I actually put a single tee 1" behind the ball just so everyone would know we were right there. I never touched it though, but I bet that didn't help the situation too much!

Some of you asked about the course- it's an upstate NY Donald Ross that costs about $75 to play. Nice place, but they are known for being psychos about the speed of play. Most people walk this course, but my dad and father-in-law were riding due to one of them having a bad hip. You can drive everywhere on the course pretty much, so no "cart-path only" issues. I'm in the NC area, but my in-laws spend a lot of time up there. Things seem different playing in the North. Not as many good golfers and more confrontations on the course in my limited oppinion.

Now as far as keeping up with the 3-some in front of us, here is another piece of info. That group was my wife, who is a single digit and both our moms, who are bad golfers. The way they both play is they bunt the ball 90 yards with no compression and no spin. If they hit into a hazard or sand trap, they quit the hole. They don't expect to hit good shots, and they have no pre-shot routine. Gimmes from 10 feet. If they pass triple, they just take a 9 or 10 and move on. They all hit at the same time, because they can't hurt anyone with the velocity of their shots! They don't really play golf, they go for a long walk! The result is they get done very quickly and have scores you can't even post.

Keeping up with them in a 4-some isn't really possible.

Based on time, we were one shot off published course pace. I don't really think keeping up with them was the single most important thing to do. But I know it looks bad not to keep up with a group in front of you. Here are some other things that I think looks bad on our part, just to paint the picture fully:
-Playing off 2 sets of tees
-Playing with a 79 year old (even though he hits it 200+)
-Playing with a 67 year old who tops a few balls
-Then some young guy who wants to line up his putts

If I saw this in front of me, I think I might judge them based on these criteria and get annoyed. That's why I made sure throughout the round that everyone was in position, and carts were properly parked on the correct side of the green. We weren't going to get a lot of slack. Trust me, it is a lot of effort on my part to watch these guys' every move for 4 hours. I kept a lookout for letting the group behind us through, but we never had a speedy chance to do it without slowing the rest of the groups down more. So after all that - 5 minutes off pace.

Hehehe, that's soooo pompous of you "Damn, I told myself to stop replying to you... ."

I hope you keep replying, you are the person I'm trying to change. You are the stuck in time guy...I have run across many of you in my lifetime. You don't like change, you don't like NEW or Young...it's all about the wise old men who created this or that.

I will give it up for the old guys for creating a fun game... but it's not like they made it perfect, that's why there are always changes to the rules. And that's what I don't like about a lot of your comments, they are stuck way back in the day. If you don't like the pace of play situation...well, you aren't just paid to be a jackass on the course, you are paid to make things better. So try thinking outside the box...sure there will no doubt be some failures along the way...but when you come up with something that changes the face of golf as we know it, then KevCarter will go down in history as one of the best things to ever happen to golf... instead of some lazy pompous golf snob.

Awaiting your reply...hehehe

"Don't sell yourself short judge, you're a tremendous slouch."

OK, seriously, there is nothing wrong with any of these. Bottom line is, 18 holes in under 4:30 is a perfectly acceptable pace. I disagree with those on this thread who think there is no reason to play in over 4 hours if nobody is in front of you. 4 hours and under for a foursome is moving... Kudos if you can get it done, but I think in most cases it is unreasonable to expect this.

I don't care who you are, i don't care how slow the pace, i don't care how good the golfers. There is never ever any reason or justification for purposefully hitting into a group or at a person. Ever. (with the rare exception of John Candy in Uncle Buck, the bug had it coming). Anyone doing so should be thrown off the course and banned. Period. There is also never any reason to turn a non-physical confrontation into a physical one. Even if the guy just hit into you. And yes, in addition to being hit into many times, i have also been hit 7 times. Believe me, it hurts. A lot. I am also not a slow player, walking i usually finish with my foursome at around the 4 hour mark, give or take 10 min.

When was I a jackass on the course?




Do I work for you?




Who do you think you are? Who do you think you're talking to?

Kevin

I hate slow play, but I hate Rangers more. Sounds like the range was buddy's with group who probably play there a good bit.

WTF??? Is this necessary? I think we can have a "spirited" debate without all the BS, taunting and name calling, can't we? Please learn to make points without making them personal. Clean it up or this will be closed.

You won't get attacked here by a ranger, they get no leeway hereMy faor. Don't kid yourself the vast majority of rangers are nothing even remotely near doing an amazing and invaluable job. The vast majority are a drain on resources and nothing more than glorified welfare. I have played on a ton of courses and witnessed many a ranger do absolutely nothing productive. Not once have I ever come across a ranger and said to myself 'wow, that guy is doing a great job.'

Just in the past two weeks I have had one ranger do nothing with total slow play on the course resulting in a 5:15 round, another ranger while doing nothing about the group two groups ahead holding everyone up had the gall to ask me if I had food in my cart purchased off the course, another ranger ask me if there was a problem while I was waiting on the tee as if I was holding anyone up (nearest group was 1.5 holes behind me), and another ranger claim there was nothing he could do to speed up three very slow groups and that I should just skip a few holes.

My favorite display of lunacy by a course and rangers is when the course has GPS on all the carts. You can see where the bottlenecks are in the pro shop, and nothing gets done. Thanks to the PGA Tour slow play is a very big problem all over golf, but worse than that is the collective bunch of rangers who do not do a damn thing helpful to this game. If they had any small amount of self respect, they would simply do us all a favor and quit.

I would have filed a police report and had my lawyer write letters to the club, the owners of the club individually and possibly write a letter to the editor.

In case you don't realize it, you were assaulted.... with a deadly weapon. With the consent of an employee of the golf course... If that would have hit your dad, you might be the proud owner of your own golf course... and a couple people would be sitting in the graybar hotel.

I don't give a crap if you were an hour behind, there is never a reason to hit into anyone on a golf course.

What if I pulled out my Glock and fired a .40 cal slug over your head because I thought you were playing too slow? Think I might end up in jail? Just maybe? There is ZERO difference here.

I am not a guy who has to race around a golf course, I like to enjoy playing golf... I happen to be a very fast player but can deal with slow play caused by others... here in So Cal on a muni you are lucky to play in 5 hours... try 6 or more on weekend afternoons.

If you don't have an extra hour in your day and you lack control over your temper then quit golf and pick up tennis...

Kev drew first blood! I'm really just messing with him. In another thread he pulled out the "maybe I need to attend golf rules classes and learn why the rules are there, blah, blah, blah" in response to one of my suggestions. To me, that just came off very pompous. I'm not the type of person to sit around and just complain about things that are wrong, I will always come up with ideas to fix the situation or I won't complain! But really I hate running into road blocks from people who also have the same problems but also won't open their eyes to change.

So I will stop messing with Kev, he just rubbed me the wrong way.

I hate slow play as much as anybody, and whizzing a driver into you guys is completely uncalled for. In addition, FIVE MINUTES behind is nothing. How do they even measure that? I mean, a 4 hour round is 13 minutes a hole. So you're not even a half of a hole behind.

I also think rangers need to monitor a group instead of just a knee jerk lapse time. I've certainly been on a hole there a couple of people have some trouble, and we fall 5 minutes behind, but it's made up just as easily as it was lost. It's not as if every 3 holes you fell 5 minutes behind.

I agree, I was just trying to be nice to all the Rangers that may read this. Although I suspect that the ones who frequent sites like this are the good ones. The bad ones spend their time hanging out in the clubhouse watching the Champions Tour events and taking a drive through the course once every 3 hours to find a group with an open hole in front of them and yell at them with no idea what the reason for the gap is.

I could go on for hours with terrible ranger stories. Maybe its a good topic for a new post.....

i am absolutely amazed at the ranger's response to you. i honestly cannot believe that someone who works at the course to promote the game would say something like that.

There is never, never any reason to hit into someone on purpose. I play fast and am often behind slower players, sometimes glacially slow. Still, I'd never dream of endangering someone over a game.

We (a 3some) were in the middle of a backup with sometimes 2 groups ahead of us on the tee we were going to and one group behind us since the 6th hole. We were on a par 4 280 yd hole and I was setting up to putt and one of the guys behind us hits his drive and it bounces and rolls up and hits my foot. Now, I've greened this hole in 1 before, but I ALWAYS wait until the group in front of me is off the green, just in case I do it again. What bothered me the most, was no one yelled FORE and they didn't even apologize. When they drove their cart up, we were walking off and I just said "Thanks, that hit my foot, too bad too, you would have been a few feet from the cup" and he replied "Well, get you f'n a off the green" to which I said "No need to apologize, it's a hell of a shot" and we drove off. We all birdied the hole, so I don't see how we took so long. I've been in the situation before where the rest of my group hits and then is rushing me to hit saying that I can't hit the green or I can't hit them or hit that far....but I ALWAYS wait and that just makes it much more of a challenge and a greater sense of accomplishment when I prove them wrong.