I don't know if you guys watched Wimbledon today but it was incredible and I'm not a huge tennis fan. One of the things I enjoyed the most was the fact that John McEnroe knows when to comment and when to keep his mouth shut. He gets the fact that it's not about him. During the long tiebreaker, the broadcast team went many many minutes without saying a word, which I thought was awesome! I couldn't help but think of what Johnny Miller would have been saying during this time. I know we don't need another johnny miller thread but I just thought I would point out what a good job McEnroe did.

yea i really agree i mean sure they talked about how he used to be great a few times but he never went on and on (himself) about how great he was...good to see you knoww

I did not see the match today but it ranks right up there with the greatest mens final ever. Any references he could have made about himself were probably not out of bounds because he played in possibly the greatest final ever against Borg.

McEnroe can be a big of a blow hard & a jerk but he knows his stuff and was a great player.

mcenroe is a great commentator, he definitely can come off as a jerk at times, but for the most part he offers great insight for the casual fan and the hardcore tennis player. if you watch enough tennis you'll realize that outside of mcenroe and his bro, the rest of the commentators are pretty annoying to listen to.

Pretty easy to do when your commentating on something you know no one is watching.


Tennis is dead.

Thanks for that, I think I can speak for us all when I say I will quit tennis now because you have said it is dead.

Seriously though, McEnroe is a really good commentator, especially with the BBC as he is the brash american kid acting as the foil for the understated British guys, not a clue of their names. Superb final though

well, I won't go that far..but what's amazing is how great the competition in tennis has become but unlike in golf where the golf channel 24/7 promotes golf and really hypes it up, the Tennis Channel is completely different..all they do is play preprogrammed shows. One would think that this morning, like TGC, they would be all over hyping up tennis and that match..the greatest match ever..it was just unbelievable that humans could dig that deep mentally..Tiger's US OPen was unreal..and good for golf..this tennis match should rank up there with that in people's minds..and if the tennis institutions have any sense of marketing, they would be all out there rather than relying on the regular media to promote their game....it is ridiculous that they do such a poor job..

im not the biggest tennis fan but started watching this year, yesterdays match was unbelievable, to say tennis is dead is a little harsh, but if it was dead, it sure as he11 rose from the dead yesterday

What a dumb, and inaccurate, comment. Everybody in my UK office watched it, most of whom would not watch any golf. And I bet they know who John McEnroe is but have never heard of Johnny Miller.

Let's keep it civil, boys. The statement about "being easy to commentate because tennis is dead" was.....well, let's just say, not a good one, nor was it well thought out. Let's not go headhunting here though.

Out of curiousity, does any of these guys play golf??? Kidding; I get why the thread was started.

Interesting to watch him re-invent himself from a mannerless,loud brat to an advocate of correctness, reminds me a UK golfer whose name I forget, won lots but made himself universally unpopular due to his arrogance, now reborn to offer advice to others!

Sergio and Rafa are really good friends I think, same with Tiger and Roger.

Personally, I felt Wimbledon might have been way more exciting to watch than the U.S Open, only because, the Monday playoff kind of took the extreme intensity out of the championship.

Maybe a tie..

You are quite a "negative" fella arent you SD...

I was on a JetBlue plane today, and seriously well over 50% if not 65% of the TVs were on the Tennis...

Maybe dead for you, but I dont think there are many that will agree with you...(maybe because the only male "US" Tennis player at the mo isnt quite "cutting" it so its lacking a few US veiwers/supporters)

You will tell us Soccer is dead next...

Tennis is not even close to dead....all of my friends in college watch the tennis majors, but most do not watch the golf majors. It's important to watch both because i believe Tiger and Roger, when all is said and done, will be the two most dominant and winningest players of their sport.....your watching history being made.

Guess I had all that coming. If you look at it from a ratings standpoint it is dead folks. No one watches tennis. I agree yesterdays match was great TV however I would imagine the ratings compared to the US open where staggering. I guess I just get a little tired of the endless J. Miller bashing. If he was THAT bad they would get rid of him.


Wimbeldon drew 1.8, lets say that yesterdays was twice that (which is being REALLY generous in reality I would bet it is closer to 2.5 however sports in the US right now are basically non existent until the NFL returns or baseball gets closer to the post season.)

The US open in 2008 was a 9.3.

Lakers and Celtics was a 10.7 during game 6.

These numbers mean nothing if your a fan your going to watch anyway. I guess I just miss the older days of tennis when it had personality. Hopefully yesterday can stimulate some new fans and generate some interest. Golf has REALLY taken over in a market that over history has been looked at as two elitist sports.

I agree you are watching history be made. However the numbers tell a different story as to what is being watched. Hopefully tennis can make a turnaround the word "dead" was too much.

To be fair, it was a 9.30 EST (6.30am PST) start with 2 Europeans. Although it was one of the best games of tennis I have ever seen.

If a leading US male player (if there is one) was playing Nadal in the US Open at Flushing Meadow, I suspect the ratings would be better.

TV audiences in Europe for yesterdays match will have been good.

Agreed. However even the ratings for the Cavs and Spurs (which was touted as the most boring NBA finals ever a sweep none the less of a small market team and a team where no one outside of texas routes for were still around the mid 6's.)

I don't know why that's not a civil comment. Tennis's hayday was long ago, ironically when McEnroe, Borg, and Conner played. Agassi helped it along for a while, but not at the same level.

Golf would be in the same situation if Tiger retired.

It is my responsibility to moderate the thread appropriately, so please read post #9 and you will see words like "dumb and inaccurate" used to describe the passage I quoted below. When used in a certain context those types of comments can fuel unecessary and heated debate.....especially in the forum world where tone and inflection are absent. We do our best to keep things on topic and avoid those kinds of situations. In addition, these comments were starting to stray off the original topic of Johnny Mac's commentary.

Cardo

Here's what Miller would have said:

"It sounded like Federer hit that last backhand about 3-4 strings too high on the racket, which is why it went out by 2 inches instead of being in by 1."

Hilarious! There is no better example of the difference between the two....

Easy for you to say, with no Americans in the quarter finals this year

US just needs a great tennis player that can do other stuff than just serve 150 Mph on a regular basis
Tennis will be popular in the US again. There are a lot of young American aspiring tennis juniors and they will in 5-6 years time make tennis a popular sport in the US once again........just you wait and see

For now, the best tennis players are from Europe - thus tennis is currently not that popular in the US.

12 million people in the U.K watching
thats no one?

Tennis had been mismanaged for the last 15 years. Regular folk can't discern the majors (grand slams) from the standard ATP events. They also can't even name the 4 majors, where as more people can name the 4 in golf plus some WGC events.

Here is a breakdown of comparable events between Golf and Tennis

Majors

Masters -----------------Australian Open
US Open------------------French Open
British Open --------------Wimbledon
PGA Championship -------------US Open

The Players Championship --------------???????

WGC - Match Play ------------------???????
WGC - CA Championship -------------???????
WGC - Bridgestone Inv --------------???????

Wachovia Championship ------------Indian Wells
Honda Classic -------Nasdaq 100 - Miami

Ryder Cup -----------------------------Davis Cup

Fed Ex Cup Playoffs ---------------------????????

Does anyone know what the ratings were for the last British Open? This isn't intended as a flame of any sort. I'm just curious as to how they would compare to the ratings for a tourney eg. the US Open or Masters. I'd guess that the timezone issue accounts for quite a lot of disparity.

I had a 1:28 tee yesterday afternoon and had to leave the house (watching the match) to get to the course and to my suprise, all the sets (no pun) were on this match. Everyone in the clubhouse was watching and it was the talk of the course. When we passed be groups allready on the course, they were asking for the results.

I think golf would hold on a little better. I compltely agree with your opening statment that was the point I was trying to make I assume. The ratings are just horrible. Look you can talk about a non american impacting the sport all you want however the Stanley Cup ratings were not bad and it is almost all foreigners on those teams as well as the ratings for the Masters when a non american won.

Would golf be in the same situation? I do not think so. The ratings even pre tiger for the majors were far better than what tennis holds now.

I don't see how you can even compare golf to television ratings. While golf is on a major network every weekend, the only time we see tennis in the US is for the majors. When's the last time you saw a regular event covered on TV? Golf has gained a following by being on every week.

BDLz

And there you go. You just proved my point. If there was a draw for it you WOULD see it every week. You used to years ago. Now there is no demand here in the US for it.

Sounds like the only other commentator I've ever enjoyed listening to ..... a MotoGP commentator (I forget the name though) that was just the way you describe McEnroe.


Not like the two tards he had to commentate with, e.g. from one of them "OH MY GOD HE'S GOING DOWN LOOK AT THE REAR WHEEL SLIDING AAAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAH!!!!"



In the meantime it was exactly what the rider intended . Then the good one immediately gets on air calmly and professionally pointing out how Valentino's rear wheel drift "positioned his bike perfectly for the following corner".

I never could tell (for sure) if he was covering for the high flying gooney bird or needling him a bit lol. I think he was covering though since you never sensed any attitude in his voice; another plus for the good one.

.

Cause = no more Sampras?


is Roddick 'coming back' yet?

Too bad this thread morphed into a "tennis is dead" argument. I think the OP's comments about McEnroe and Miller are very interesting and on the money. I think the biggest differences are that Mac doesn't try to insert himself in the moment all the time, and he doesn't try to predict what the player is thinking all the time. Miller is just in your face all the time, while Mac (and Enberg?) is happy to let the action on the court carry the telecast.

It is the nature of the sport people. Think about it your comparing two completely different games. Tennis is reactive and you are playing another player. You react to what he does and try to take advantage of your strengths and his weaknesses. It is an individual sport where you play against an opponent unlike golf. Golf your opponent is the golf course. Mentally golf is in fact "in the moment" there are putts that everything is on the line and you have to go up and execute against the golf course not another opponent. This is not to say tennis is any less more difficult or mentally challenging however if you are lets say considerably better than player X you will almost always beat player X. With golf it is impossible to dominate every week primarily because of the golf courses.

I assume games or sports take off to different degrees based upon nationality in there respective states (US typically likes to watch their own etc.) however look at a game like poker. Poker took off because your really never out of it. The chance factor is ALWAYS there. If you have a good week you can beat the worlds best. Now look at all the players that have one majors and have not done anything with it. It brings in the chance factor. In order for tennis to be truly provocative again we need a rivalry.

Maybe to a degree we have one now.

espn classic is reshowing it now..

Holy cow--you quote my thread and then continue to completely ignore the original point of the thread.

Tennis is far from dead.

Just because it may be staggering in the US right now, that does not make the sport dead. Global interest in tennis right now would almost be as high as at any other time in history.

Federer has been doing over the last 5 years what Tiger has been doing in golf. Perhaps US interest has waned since Sampras left the scene but it will rise again, no doubt.

I guess football (soccer), and Formula 1 are also dead, right? Lucky we've all got Nascar and NFL to watch instead...

I think the statement that tennis was dead came from the lack of television coverage surrounding it, which tennis doesn't receive a lot of coverage on the main channels, CBS ABC FOX NBC on a consistent basis.

How did I ignore it. I am making the point that it is very difficult to compare two different announcers analyzing two very different sports. Perhaps you should re-read it. If everyone stuck to the EXACT topic every single time all the threads on this site would be about 5 posts long.

What's Nascar and NFL ...........

To be quite honest I haven't seen an NFL game or a Nascar race in more than 2 years time.
I much prefer genuine football and Formula 1.....yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Yeah, so do I....

I was being sarcastic - not sure if that came through...

It did....just had to mention how I feel about Nascar and NFL

Kinda hard to "let the action speak for itself". I found it almost unbearable watching Tiger live grinding for minutes on every shot, then giving 2 seconds of action, then grinding again.

Tennis has enough constant action to let the commentators shut up. Golf on TV has too much dead air space to do that.

Even baseball seems very lively compared to golf.

Plus, part of the beauty of golf is the setting. It's very hard to convey on TV.

I'd still rather watch any golf on TV v. most tennis.

Exactly.

As someone that watches (and plays) both tennis and golf - yes, I have to absolutely agree with the OP ... on both points. It was a genuinely fantastic final, one for the ages. And yes, McEnroe really does know when comments will add something to the broadcast, and when they would just be irritating.

The match actually got me thinking of how much I'd like to see someone step up and really be Tiger's equal. The rivalry between Nadal and Federer if great to see ... they drive each other to incredible heights of the game. It would be fantastic for golf to see someone equally as dominant as Tiger ... not just during a particular match, but a true rivalry year after year.

Where is Tiger's Nadal? A lot of names had promise and great press. Sergio. Adam Scott. Choi, O'Hair. Etc., etc. There are a lot of guys out there with serious game. But none have really hit that next level. Personally - I'd really love to see someone emerge.

[PS. Incidentally, the entire "tennis is dead" thing gave me a good laugh. It is true that golf is on the decline - there's actually a current thread here about all the courses that have been closing, and speculation as to why people aren't playing as much anymore.

Tennis? Well, interestingly enough, it is one of the few sports that is currently increasing in popularity. It - like other sports - waxes and wanes, and it is not quite as popular as it was during its previous peak in the 70's ... but since around 2000, it has again seen increases in popularity every year - as measured by both rounds played and number of people playing it. Both men and women. Both in the US and globally.]

lol...Tiger's Nadal is the golf courses they play major championships on..The tennis court does not change..always the same measurement..different surfaces...