I play on a local 9 hole muni w/ my Dad and his 2 buddies occasionally (we go around twice) and today was unreal.

Tee off at 8am. Generally that time gets us ahead of the casual golfer, at least for the first 9. So I'm putting a few around before we tee off and I see a single standing on the tee box for a VERY long time. I look out, and there's a two some in the middle of the fairway who teed off earlier. I mean, it's been at LEAST 10 minutes, and they're still about 210 out on a short par 4 (360 yards). They finally get out of his way and he tees off.

So now here's 4 of us, me, my Dad who's 79, and two other guys who are in their early 80s, one of which still carries his full set of clubs. These guys take a good 20 minutes to finish the first hole. Remember, there's only 2 of them. Luckily the single was able to play through these guys.

We're on their tail for the entire round. While we're on the 2nd hole, I look over to the 3rd tee box, and their cart is ON THE TEE BOX. So we've got some slow clueless players in front of us. On the 3rd green, the one guy drives up and is driving on the fringe. We'll, I guess at least they didn't drive on the green. I was seriously p1ssed at this point because we've been out there about 45 minutes and have played a whopping 2 1/2 holes. I should have stayed in bed. I yelled out to them to get the cart away from the green, and a ranger actually came up to speak with them. He should have followed them around for a bit to see how ridiculous this was.

So we're moving around the course. 2 1/2 hours on the front 9. Mind you, this is a 3000 yard, absolutely flat, 2 little ponds, maybe 8 bunkers on the entire course kinda layout. The slope is 110 and rating is like 66, for crying out loud. A TWOSOME should be able to whiz around this course in about 80 minutes max driving a cart.

The last hole is a decent par 3, about 195 yards with a huge tree 40 yards short and just left of the green. I'm walking up to the 8th green, and put my bad down near the 9 box and grab my putter, and I stand there watching these dazzling golfers tee off. It takes the two of them about 5 minutes to get off the box. One guy was doing swing drills, and who knows what the other genius was doing. So we're waiting a good 10 minutes of the box and they do who-knows-what on the green.

They finally get done, and for a finale they parked their cart near the big tree (completely on the opposite side of where you leave, of course). They get into the cart, and sit... and sit... and sit... About a minute goes by and we try to get their attention with "yo" and "Hey, let's go" and "fore". I've NEVER yelled out to a group in front of me before in 30 years of golfing. No luck, they just sit there.

By now the group behind us (with 2 little kids) is finishing up on the 8th green. So I decide to hit even though they are clearly in play. I mean, how long am I supposed to wait? All four of us hit, and we get about half way up the fairway by the time these guys decide to drive off. They sat there for a good 5 minutes.

Anyway, had to vent. One of the least enjoyable 9 holes I've ever played in my life. Back 9 was a nice 2 hours with the course packed full.

Things like this happen all the time to all of us. Usually the phone number for the club house is on the scorecard so i pretty much call right away when something is wacky, and i'll call multiple times if needed.
I'm a big fan of courses enforcing slow play, and i will pay more for a more reliable round. When i started playing just 5 years ago, the 4 handicap guy i played with told me "no one cares if you are good or bad, they only care if you play slow". That is so true.

sorry to hear about your experience, i think wacky things should get phone calls to the course during and after the experience.

First off, I feel for the original poster. I played behind a father/son duo the other day and they were bad. They must have taken like 20 mins to finish the first hole, they were driving around like crazy looking for balls OB and then all the way on the other side of the hole (by Hole 4).

Now, how or when do you call for slow play? You say that, "no one cares if you are good or bad, they only care if you play slow," but the rules of golf dictate how fast you play depending on your handicap. Sure a group of 10 handicappers are going to play faster than a group of 20 handicappers. But if the people in front of you are playing by the rules and doing their best to play ready golf and don't look like their a lolligagging (is that even the spelling on that) around...would you still call player assistance on them?

My personal thought is, if you look like you are trying to do well and following the rules, I'm not going to give you too much of a hard time. Even if you have to hit a bunch of provisionals. However, if you are sitting in your cart, walking slowly to your ball, not playing ready golf or driving around looking for lost balls for 10 mins, then I may say something.

But, I have the feeling that most people would complain even if you are playing within the rules, if you are a bad golfer (30+ handicaps). What say you all?

Twist

People who are unable to keep up with the pace of play for any reason should not be playing during prime time, like weekend mornings when you will be holding up everybody on the course. Play during slower non prime times until you become proficient enough to keep up. That may suck, but you need to use a little common sense. When you become a better player and can get around faster you will understand my comments. The rules of golf are NOT causing your slow play.

Kevin

I am lucky enough to play Pebble Beach 3-4 times a year, usually you expect people to be slow there as it may be their one and only time they get to mecca, 51/2 - 6 hours is not uncommon but there was one time we were following a group of a certain nationality that I won't mention where they:

- drove both carts to every shot got out and applauded every time...
- took a picture of every shot
- the best player probably shot 120
- played their own version of "honors" where the head honcho hit first on every round of shots regardless of where his ball was.
- made the turn in over 3 hours after we teed off...
- refused to let us play through when we asked on every hole after 3.
- sat down to eat lunch (thank god)

Needless to say we passed them at the turn. Out of curiosity we took seats out on the balcony of the Lodge after we finished, changed and put our clubs away. A little after 7 hours after WE teed off, they came up to the 18th green... The people in the group behind them, well... they were not happy. There was at least an hour gap between when they finished and the previous group, evidently a couple of groups did skip holes and go around them as they refused to let anyone play through.

The next day we saw one of the caddies that was with them, he just rolled his eyes and said this group flys over to play every year and that the one guy is a CEO of a major corporation which is why it is tolerated.

I'm not sure how you can say the rules are NOT causing slow play. If I hit OB the rules clearly state hitting provisionals. It takes time to hit those and then find them...even if I limit search to 5 min, that could take awhile. If I end up behind a tree with no shot to the green, I can't just drop in a better place, I have to bail out and maybe not get any forward movement. So that's another stroke without really advancing the ball.

The truth is, I'm probably the fastest-crappy golfer out there. Yesterday, I played twilight and it started raining and lightning. Well, at about hole 14 the guys I played with quit, but I was having a good round, so I kept going. The guy who joined me, just sat in the cart until I got close to the clubhouse. But, I was hitting quick, putting quick, doing everything quick. I actually love the rain, it clears the course out.

But Kevin, I do think it's a little pompous of you to say for us high handicappers to play at a different time. There was once a time when other people were segregated by people who also thought they were elite.

Maybe you should suggest different green fees based on handicaps. It won't totally help slow play, but may force high handicaps to play later or twilight. But you don't like changing the rules, so I may have to suggest this one for you.

Twist

SLOW PLAY IS RUINING THE GAME! (for me)

There are very few public courses around here at which you can finish in under 4:30. And most of the public courses in my area are between $75 and $100.

From what I've seen, slow play is typically a result of people taking WAYYYY too long on the greens.

And please people...for the love of god, PLAY READY GOLF!

Pompous? I don't think so. Just a club pro working his a** off and getting chewed out when his members play in over 4 hours. Generally the slow players come up with excuses, using the rules is one that I had not heard before. As I said, someday you will learn about the game, understand my comments, and be embarrassed by some of yours.

Kevin

I hate being rushed or even feeling rushed. Plenty of rushing going on during work and golf is an outlet for me. As a result I'll let anyone play through if necessary (rarely).


On the course I still consider myself as 'practicing'. So I don't keep a real score. If I have a blocked lie (I'll play bad ones) such as by a tree I'll kick it out. But then on the next hole I may have the same situation and I'll play it for experience. Whatever suits my fancy at the time.

This past weekend the fairway was soggy/borderline muddy and the ball stuck in there on a couple of holes. I kicked it out to a firmer area .... not to improve my lie but simply to keep from getting all messed up with mud lol.


So right now I'm just using my round as practice while being cognizant of the fact that it's not just me on the course. If only others were as considerate it wouldn't be a problem IMO.

hehe, I was just trying to get a rise out of you. But even with that, my comments are true and I will never be embarrassed by my comments. I hate slow play as much as anyone, but my point (valid, not embarrassing) is that people can't play fast unless they are really really good or they cheat. Llike the LOST/OB rule, if you get down to where your ball is supposed to be, but you can't find it...the only option is to go back and hit again. How is that not going to slow up play...and that's the rules!

HOWEVER, there are people who are just plain slow!!! Like the poster above mentions.

There is a guy in my group ...who will out pompous you any day... who takes forever over a putt. He walks behind the hole, behind his ball, does his little setup and finally putts. Even though it agrevates me, I don't saw anything as he makes most of his putts and he is about a 7 handicap and doesn't take long getting to the green. He plays every putt like it's for the championship, but again, not sure if I could complain. However, I end up rushing most of my shots because people take so long over their balls. I was playing behind a couple of young guys yesterday and this one guy took like 3 or so full practice swings...each time I thought he was hitting the ball...but no it was just practice. Personally, I get up, take one swing maybe and then hit. I'm probably one of if not the fastest player to play by the rules and who has a 40 handicap. I just see so many people cheating, and those cheats do help you save time. That's why I say, if you are playing by the rules, it could/should take longer.

You know, if they want to speed up golf... remove OB's!!! They slow up play more than anything. We end up having to hit provisionals, and then look for the original just incase we got a lucky bounce....and all that takes time. If they just made most of those OB's lateral hazards, it would save some time. And like I said in another thread, watching the US Open, I didn't see any OB's!



So I agree with the poster above...



1. Play ready golf ...get to your ball and hit, just look so two people aren't hitting at the same time.

2. As you are approaching your ball, whether it's in the rough, fairway or green, you should already be working out what club and shot you want to make.

3. Check your putts to the best of your ability while others are putting...while trying not to move too much. Personally, here is another etiquette/rule issue that slows play. If I have to stand completely still and not read my putt, I waste time.

4. Help your partner's out... watch their balls to see where they land, and if you are in carts, help them find their balls quick. 2, 3, or 4 eyes looking for a ball will probably find it quicker than one. And as soon as the ball is found, everyone get to ready golf. If everyone is walking...then you all may want to hit and then help you buddy find his ball. It sucks to lose a ball, especially if you know your not OB, but you just can't find it. It sucks because the rules are brutal for this situation.

5. Limit lessons and help to the practice range. I see way too many people out there giving lessons on the course...even if it's not a true coach/student and maybe just a buddy helping out.

6. Let faster players play through if you can't keep up with the group in front.

7. When going to seach for a ball, when a pair are riding in a cart, bring an extra ball (or two if you really suck) and some clubs you may want to use. I play with someone who never brings clubs or extra balls. And it wastes tons of time.

I think if everyone played ready golf as much as possible much of this would be reduced. Seriously, I end up running to my ball from one shot to the next just to make up for the slower players in my group...and it hurts my game cause I feel rushed.

Little off subject, so my apologies, but also an irritating situation yesterday. I play with my 8-yr old daughter in my twosome, but I only let her drive the cart, pitch onto the green, then putt. Mind you, I pay for 2, and she has learned to play 'ready" golf. The starter put us with a single walking and a single in a cart. The guy walking refused to play with a "kid" and actually went back to the shop to complain. The guy in the cart was very nice to my little girl. So to accomodate the walker, we lagged behind after the 1st tee shot. The whole time I was worried about the group behind us since we were only 2, but the group behind was very cool after I explained the situation. Well, we and the foursome behind us were held up the entire round by the walker hitting balls OB, taking several swings, and then taking forever to read greens, only to miss by a mile. This guy was throwing clubs and swearing almost every hole. I did my best to get to him by sticking my approach on the green just as he was walking off and by hitting off the tee just after he hit his 2nd. His look of digust was priceless.

Well said Kevin!

Sunday I got stuck with three guys that are slow . Hit it sideways I have no idea how many holes they hit provisional balls.

I was worried about the group behind us (then I saw who it was they only caught us once all day)

the group in front of us finished two and a half holes ahead of us.

Yep it was a four and a half hour round. Big deal where else did I want to be but on a golf course.

Hey we had and hour delay because the course was too wet, to start our day.

Slow play I am not advocating and it is rude not to let faster players through . But please a chill pill fellows four and a half hours on a golf course is not a bad thing.

On a nine hole muni on a weekend its not even surprising. I used to run one that got a lot of play four and a half was the norm.

Learn to relax and smell the flowers for me the golf course is where I want to be.

Ken

Ken, some GREAT points. When did it become a race? Seriously, I am working at the fastest paced club I have ever seen. 3.5 hours in the morning, 4 in the afternoon. If it takes them longer than 4:15, EVER, they want a piece of the staff's flesh. I wish more had your attitude, 5 hours can seem long, but I am VERY comfortable myself playing in 4:15. Not a popular opinion these days. Maybe you and I are just too old and slow!



Kevin

mat562,

I see you lurking here. Folks on your side of the pond have a reputation for VERY speedy play, as well as everybody being VERY knowledgeable about the rules. I would really enjoy your comments in this thread.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kudos. Nothing worse than feeling rushed when nothing is wrong with your pace. It's one thing to have people climbing up your back when there are skill issues in your foursome; but when you're trying to groove your game it sucks when you can feel the group behind breathing down your neck. Huge difference between "ready" golf and "speed" golf.

Slow play is always going to be a problem in golf because courses welcome players from all experience levels. There really isn't any way to avoid that issue.

I play my best golf when the course is open and I'm able to go out and finish in 3-3.5 hours, but that's not a realistic expectation. I go out knowing that it's going to be 4.5 almost every time, and am thrilled to death when it goes faster.

We played this Saturday, and the pace of play was really slow for our group for some reason. It took us almost 4.75 without ever having to wait on a tee box and never having another group waiting for us. I can't explain the slow play of the course that day, but it didn't bug me. Slow play doesn't bug me as much as the waiting game. I don't mind a 5 hour round if it's at my pace. If I'm waiting for at least one, sometimes two, groups at every tee box, then it sucks all of the fun out of it.

Slow play irks me when there is a backup on the tees, but being hustled along irks me even more.

My pace of play, along with my usual golf buddy in the same cart, is 3.75 to 4 hours. Please bear in mind that I ride because I CANNOT walk the course due to a severe knee injury. Before I was injured I lived in NY and preferred walking. We generally play as a twosome in South Florida, and we prefer to play later if the weather will permit it. If we're having a bad day and someone asks politely to play through, we're happy to oblige. Some folks will just get less patient and hit into you, though.

BTW, there may be a reason for the guy in the cart to be parked up near the green. Take a look for a handicapped flag before you get on his case. Someone got up in my face about that a few weeks ago -- until I tapped the handicapped flag with my cane. That shut him up reet quick.

Imagine being the ranger or staff member at your club who deals with pace of play. People do look at this issue from both sides.

Some people are mad at you because play is slow. The slow players get mad at you for trying to move them along. Others just say the ranger isn't doing his job and is worthless having him. I can't think of many more thankless jobs where whatever you do just pisses people off. What a business some days!

Kevin

I understand just what you mean, Kevin. The situation got handled well at a club I played at recently. We were playing a par 3 where there's a curb preventing you from leaving the cartpath, winding around to the left of the green. I'd left my tee shot off the green on the right side, so my friend drove the cart around the back of the green past the curb, and parked it near my ball. The course owner was picking range balls nearby, and he walked over to explain that he preferred cart path only on the hole. As he saw me get out of the cart, he apologized for coming over. I said I asked for a flag, but the starter said they didn't use them here -- just stay 20 feet off the green. The owner said they stopped flagging because almost everyone that played asked for one.

Welcome to South Florida.

He was gracious about the situation, which is the best I can hope for. I've never had a problem with a course's ranger. But there have been some players who are self-appointed officious types that needed a "sensitivity training session".

Thanks Ronzo. I agree about the self appointed bullies, I don't care for them either, and they would not last long at any course I manage. At my previous club, I called my rangers and starters customer service agents. I expected then to be nice, calm, helpful, and hoped they didn't get beaten up!

Kevin

My pleasure, Kevin. Most officious types tended to fold up and quiet down as they approached the cart. I'm like Arbitrage -- somewhat imposing, physically. Most people don't give me a hard time.

Rangering is without question the worst job on earth. You basically show yourself and hope people take the hint .

If you actually have to say something to someone , they are almost always offended.

Its a no win situation.


Ken

Can everybody in this thread weed out who has ever worked at a public golf course?

Yes, rangering is a thankless job, but it's part of the job description. I will most likely not confront a slow playing group, since I never know how slow players are going to react to a freindly 'nudge'. If things get really, really slow, I'll do what another poster has suggested: call the clubhouse and have them tend to it.

I don't think I've ever played a round of golf on a big course (i.e. par 70+, 5600+ yds) in under 4 hours. A typical round takes between four and half to five hours. I think my record is 4 hours 10 minutes. You wait 30 seconds here, 60 seconds there, 90 seconds over there and before you know it you've spent 20 minutes just waiting for the group in front. Then there's the course layout and cart path rules, which can contribute greatly to the length of time needed to get around the course.

As far as I can tell there are two schools of thought on pace of play. The first school is "I payed $$$ to play and I shouldn't have to wait for the group in front of me. They were given a headstart for a reason." The second school of thought is "I payed $$$ and I'm not going to be rushed. I paid to play 18 holes, not to use the course for 4 hours (or whatever the pace of play is)."

This reminds me of a story. Two friends and I were playing one day. Friend A and I play a lot together. Friend B and I play together only on occasion, about two or three times a year. This was one of the few times we all three played together. We tee off. A and I go to our balls, hit again, and head towards the green. B had a rough start and needs a couple extra strokes to get to the green. Well, by the time he gets on the green, A and I have already putted out (we were playing ready golf). B gets upset. He doesn't want to be the only person putting and he can't believe that A and I played out of turn and didn't wait for him. Apparently, on his high school golf team B was taught that playing when it wasn't your turn was a huge no-no. The high school golf team may have emphasized that for safety reasons, but I don't know. B wasn't too thrilled about A and I playing ready golf, which resulted in B falling behind. To be fair, A and I didn't tell him that's what we did. Being used to playing together we just played on as usual. Fortunately, the rest of the round went off without a hitch.

I think it's worse here in the northeast (ohio). Average round is about 4:30 with this past weekend at 5:30. The issue up here is cart path only.......you should just walk. When it's cart path only, I'm tempted to get back in my car. It just takes forever.

I've also noticed the courses in my area are much more crowded than they are in the South.

I try not to worry much about slow golfers although I used to when I was a high handicapper because I needed the extra time to hit my 10 shots to the green. I try to find something to occupy myself in between shots.....chew on a tee, clean the grooves on my wedges, etc.

It's easy when things are going bad to blame slow play. I've learned not to worry about whats going on around me and stay totally focused on my game.

EXACTLY!!!

Worked at a public course for years...it really sucks talking to about 95% of the people that come through the doors. One of my favorite things is the par 5 that's actually 500 yards. So you have the guy that takes 3 shots to get inside the 250 marker and then as long as they're inside of it they feel it necessary for them to wait for the green to clear.

I will say this though, I've played hundreds and hundreds of rounds of golf and never once been told to hurry up. I've also rangered and usually its only a handful of guys at every course that either think they're better then they are (slow because of this) or are just flat out clueless.

...and easy to tell who has never worked at a golf course.

Some good points raised here especially since I've always subscribed to the "not worried if good or bad, just quick" theory. I'll add my own perspective/clairity.

I don't specifically mind it when a less than skilled golfer takes longer because his game isn't as sharp to hit fairways and GIR...that's fine...just keep a good pace to your play. Most golfers can tell the difference between someone who is new and trying hard versus someone who is just screwing around and wasting time and I think the latter is what really irriates most people. I've always believed that golfers (of ALL SKILL LEVELS) should make a conscious effort to be mindful of their pace of play and respectful to others.

In other words, if you aren't good, fine...take your shots and do the best that you can. So what if you shank your first shot (almost all of us have done it)...go to it and hit your second. DON'T screw around on the course or lolly-gag around when it's busy. If you notice you're holding up others on the course, let them play through or pick-up your ball and keep pace with your group. Bottomline, be respectful to others and their time as you would want to the same.

The worst situation I've had recently was when a friend in my own group was causing the slow play.

Now this is a friend that I generally like who (to be honest) is not the best golfer...but kind'a talks like he is. Anyway, we played an early morning round at a local muni that was PACKED. Now, the irony...about halfway through the round, he was chatting with the group behind us about how slow the group in front of us was. Once the fairway clears on that hole for us to tee off, he requests (not asks) to use my brand new 3 wood because he didn't have one (I said, "No, use your iron"). He promptly chucks his first 3 shots on the hole. Each of his shots included what I can only describe as a tribal dance of his frustrations. His 3rd shot went 20 yards into a creek...and YES, he went into the creek to get his ball (a cheap Nike ball) wasting more time. Again, keep in mind that the group behind us was on the tee waiting. Now, the whole irony here is that he complained about the group in front of us and yet we didn't have to wait one bit for them on that hole and his actions (or reactions) did nothing, but waste time and cause delay.

On another hole, he lost his ball to the right while me and our friend were to the left...he yelled across the fairway to ask where he hit it without even beginning his search (apparently because he had no interest watching his tee shot when it was less than perfect). He finally found his ball and I'm guessing took several swing at it. Later, I watched his 4th or 5th shot land 40 yards short of the green when I and another playing partner were putting out (trying to play ready golf). The friend approached the green looking around for his ball and we had to help him look while the group behind us was waiting in the fairway to hit to the green. I had thought he already hit his previous shot from 40 yards out, but no.... again he wasn't watching his shots and I had to walk down to his ball to point it out. I look back and just cringed at what the group behind us was thinking.

The entire morning was filled with me telling the one friend where his shots landed and watching him essentially waste time. The sad part is he isn't new to the game and isn't a terrible golfer...in this case, he wasn't minding his pace of play and honestly was being disrespectful to others on the course. Needless to say, I haven't played a weekend round with him since.

Testify brother Kevin Testify

How many of you skip holes if you have a slow group in front of you?

I figure that my time is valuable enough that I'm happy to skip a hole and save an hour on the course.

If your time is so valuable, why are you wasting it playing golf?

Word! Golf was never supposed to be a race.

And rounds were never supposed to take five hours plus.

We ALL agree on 5+ hours not being acceptable.

Kevin

I picked up on that. It's pretty obvious.

My point was that it's generally pretty easy to skip a hole and then keep to a decent pace. Not always but generally. And it keeps everyone happy--the pros & rangers don't have to deal with it, the slow players keep doing their slow thing, and I can get home a bit more quickly. No frustration, no confrontation, no asking too much of the staff, etc.

But I must have errored in believing that my time is valuable and that skipping a hole is an easy way to keep to a good pace.

So, what do you suggest I do, Kevin? Not skip holes and be thankful that I played a round in 4:55?

You are putting words in my mouth. You might want to reply to the people who made the comments you don't care for. My comment was none of us like 5 hour rounds...

Kevin

Sorry that you feel I'm putting words in your mouth. Not my intention.

But you did respond to my response to those that seem to think either one shouldn't skip holes or that one shouldn't feel that their time is valuable enough to skip holes. I figured your response was your way to getting in on the conversation.

So, regardless of all the rest, do you think it's an acceptable solution to skip a hole and avoid the other issues?

I DID NOT reply to your post about skipping holes, which I think is perfectly acceptable btw. If you look on the left side of each post you can see the name of the person posting that particular message.

Kevin

I said "you did respond to my response" which was my response about the five hour round. Sorry that this is so unclear and that I've offended you. Best of luck dealing with the slow play & those that complain about it.

What is your problem? Perhaps a reading comprehension course is in order. Am I responsible for the posts of others? My post to your statement was that none of us like 5 hour rounds...

Kevin

If you start with post 34 of this thread and go from there, it's quite clear. Again, sorry that you're so frustrated but you're the one that jumped in the conversation that started at post 34. Sorry that you've had a bad day.

Played a round today at a course I have only played once before over a year ago. Well, we had a foursome in front of us (3) that played WAY slow. But I'm not sure it was completely their faults, as there were holes where I saw people on the fairway when this group was on the tee box. That being said, they still played pretty slow, they walked very slowly to their balls and carts. They would always park their carts like 10 yards or so away, I just didn't understand that? They had a girl with them who could barely connect with the ball...and when she did, it would go dead left about 40 yards tops.

See, what bothers me about bad golfers (such as myself) are the ones who act like they own the course and however long it take their round to complete is good enough. I mean, I will run to my ball from my cart... especially if I duff one or smack one into a hazard. I always have another ball with me (usually 2 extra) and if I don't have the "right" club, I will just use the one I have and get my ball back into play.

The problem I saw today, was the group in front of us was slow, the group in front of them probably wasn't much better, but the group in front of us wasn't pressuring the other group. If you don't press them at least every few holes, they will go as slow as they can.

You know what would be nice to have... high tech though, would be a timer on the carts. It could work like the GPS's out there, when you reach a new hole, it starts a timer. I mean, it wouldn't have to be official or anything, just something to remind people ...hey, you are probably taking too long.

It shouldn't take much more than 13 min per hole to meet a 4 hour pace.

One other thing I think other people have mentioned, but you do have to account for group size. Like we were a threesome today waiting on a foursome...so it probably makes sense that we would end up waiting at some point unless the foursome had better handicaps then us.

Obviously,it's post 35 that bothers you. Can you see the screen name of that poster? Was it KevCarter? WAKE UP!!! I have been involved in the thread all along. Again, WAKE UP!!!

Kevin

Kevin, I'm going to walk away on this one. I'm fully awake. Again, sorry that you're so upset. I'll not respond to you again on thread.

WOW

Try skipping holes on a crowded SoCal muni on a weekend...

The problem is there is nowhere to skip to... Here, you either get used to 5 to 6 hour rounds or you go crazy... our golf courses are just like our freeways.

If you want to play the munis here in 4 hours you have to be on the dawn patrol.