I guess this is the right forum.. I didn't see anything more appropriate.

Anyway, last night my buddy and I had a tight match going. The last hole is a hard dogleg left. My buddy hit a huge drive and cut the corner just right. Unfortunately he hit the cart path and 1 giant bounce later he was in 3 feet of hay. There is no finding a ball in that stuff.

So, I think he should hit a provisional since we both know that ball isn't coming back. He says that because the path is man made he should get a free drop / distance. He is right in that the ball would most likely have stayed short of the deep stuff had it not hit the path.

My argument is this - we gladly take the distance when we hit a cart path during play. I have never seen anyone bring their ball back 50 yards knowing that the ball would never have gone that far if not for the cart path. since we take the good bounces we should take the bad.

So, who is right?

I've searched the internet high and low but can't find the answer or a similar situation. I'm sure it can be somehow cross referenced in the official rules, but I didn't wade through that jargon.

I still won the match, but this situation has me intrigued.....

Edited to add that this is a *friendly* dispute. We take the rules seriously, but we don't go nuts over them.....

It's just a bad break, rub of the green, or whatever you want to call it. In any case, it's still a lost ball. Stroke and distance. Re-tee, hitting three.

It happened to me a couple weeks ago. I blistered a drive down the middle of a par 5, dogleg left. I would've had about a 6 iron left to the green, but it landed on a sprinkler head and bounced through the dogleg out of bounds.

It sucks, but it happens.

A lost ball is a lost ball. Period.

Provisional should have been hit and if the first ball is not found the Provisional becomes the ball in play.

Same goes with a ball OB.

easy........cart path sucks, lost ball, re-tee hitting three.

I've never even heard that being discussed as something people didnt know. Absolutely OB, re-tee.

It's all about where the ball stops, not what it hits on the way to its resting spot. With man-made objects, you can only take a drop if the ball has come to rest near a man-made object (cart path, sprinkler head, etc) that interferes with your stance or swing. If a ball hits a man-made object and goes out of bounds and/or is lost, too bad...you have to just take the penalty.

It's called an immovable obstruction. "Man made" is too vague, a bunker is "man made" hell for that matter most entire golf courses are man made!!

As prviously stated. It's golf, lost ball, tee it up hitting three. End of story.

This is a little harsh, but obviously you (or your friend) don't take the rules seriously enough, since this is a very basic question. If you are going to take these situations this seriously, a read of the Rules might he a good idea...

As long as you are correcting the gentleman, might as well include the correct terminology.

Obstructions
An "obstruction" is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured ice...

DrSchteeve,

I think maybe a little harsh, let's not discourage rules questions as we can all learn from the different situations posted.

I know you have studied the rules. Think back to when you were just starting to study. You thought you knew a rule, but somebody disagreed with you. Made you question yourself... now try to find the answer to a question that isn't there, it can drive you nuts!

This thread just confirms what the original poster thought he knew!

Kevin

DrSchteeve, the OP did say he searched the internet for an answer before posing the question here. I wonder if that included going to the USGA website and looking up the rules and decisions? Some people newer to the game may not realize the Rules are actually available on line. Even then, the decisions don't cover every conceivable circumstance.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html

Need help on this one too.

1. Tee shot goes right (always seems to happen on this one particular hole) we see it bounce and land into a lightly wooded (no underbrush) area and always see it come to rest in the wooded area from the T-Box. But just beyond the wooded area is a lateral water hazard. This time, can't find the ball, didn't see it come to rest from the T-Box and didn't see it roll into the lateral water hazard. Is this a lost ball and re-tee or lost in lateral water hazard even though we didn't see it go into the water? Or does it matter? HELP!

26-1. Relief for Ball in Water Hazard

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

================================

26-1/1 Meaning of “Known or Virtually Certain”

If a ball has been struck towards a water hazard and has not been found, the term “known or virtually certain” indicates the level of confidence that the ball is in the water hazard that is required for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1. A player may not assume that his ball is in a water hazard simply because there is a possibility that the ball may be in the hazard. If it is not known that the ball is in the water hazard, in order for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1 there must be almost no doubt that the ball is in the hazard. Otherwise, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost outside the hazard and the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.

All available evidence must be taken into account in determining whether knowledge or virtual certainty exists, including any testimony and the physical conditions in the area around the water hazard. For example, if a water hazard is surrounded by a fairway on which a ball could hardly be lost, there exists a greater certainty that the ball is in the hazard than there would be if there were deep rough in the area. Observing a ball splash in a water hazard would not necessarily provide knowledge or virtual certainty as to the location of the ball as sometimes such a ball may skip out of a hazard.

The same principle would apply for a ball that may have been moved by an outside agency (Rule 18-1) or a ball that has not been found and may be in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1c). (Revised)

================================

Ask yourself, "Could the ball be anywhere outside the hazard?"

Sounds to me as though the ball may be lost outside the hazard in the wooded area. In this case I would say lost ball, but still a judgement call...

Kevin

Thank You Thank You Thank You. Once more the Golfwrx team comes to the rescue of a lame damsel when it comes to understanding all the rules. I am Virtually Certain my foursome didn't understand that rule and now it makes lots of sense.

Again, BZ to Mr. Carter and the Golfwrx team of pros!!

PS. just learned BZ means good job or well done.

Ciao from your smiling friends in Asia, "Wan"

Have a great day, you always make me smile as well!

Kevin

Simple rule to go by: it's not what you THINK happened to the ball, it's what you KNOW happened to the ball. If you don't SEE the ball's final resting position and you can't FIND it, then you KNOW that it is LOST and must re-tee it under penalty of STROKE and DISTANCE.

Don't MAKE the rules of golf harder then they have to be....

Not necessarily, please read the second paragraph of 26-1/1 again. The question "Could the ball be anywhere outside the hazard?" needs to be answered. Not that difficult in my opinion.

How is posting text from the rule book making it harder than it needs to be?

Kevin

your buddy needs to stop making up rules and study the rulebook

Thanks everyone for the responses. That didn't take long to clear up!

We do try to play the rules as best we can, but this one kind of threw me. After watching him nail a beautiful drive, stroke and distance seemed a little harsh even to me. I hate to see someone get penalized for a bad break...

I wish there was a list of common scenarios regarding out of bounds and hazards. Those 2 things seem to cause most of the confusion when it comes to the rules.

Question about this...

I played with a guy (read: cheater) who said that if a ball landed in bounds but then bounced or rolled out that you could play from the spot it landed in bounds. Now I know this joker is on the crack, but I wanted verification.

BTW, this is a guy who was about 2 feet OB and he was going to hit his ball where it lays... when I said "your OB, you gonna go back or take the extra penalty" (btw, the extra is just a added rule we did to speed up pace of play). When he says, "it's all how you interpret the rules" YIKES!

777twist,

Deep down, you know the answer. The rules are difficult, and it's amazing how someone else can destroy our confidence enough to question what we already know. You were 100% correct. The rule is based upon where the ball ends up. It doesn't matter how it got there... most of the time.

Kevin