I am new to the area, what are some of the hardest courses in the Southern California area? I live in the inland empire, but will travel for good golf. I have played most of the public courses in the area, looking for others close to LA, orange county. Thanks.

I'd suggest you consider a drive north to Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo County... Rancho San Marcos, Sandpiper, La Purisima and Marshallia Ranch in SB County... Monarch Dunes, Cypress Ridge, Hunter Ranch in SLO County... In San Diego County, most recommend Barona Creek. In your area, Rustic Canyon!

angeles national is a nice course in rustic cyn is good, I havent played it but I heard lost canyons in simi valley another. Also try olivas links in ventura if your willing to drive it was remodeled about a year ago.

Since you asked about the hardest, I'll give you my list of the most difficult courses in all of SoCal, public access that is..

In no particular order:

1. La Purisma in Lompoc..stellar place to play. Exceedingly difficult to score there.
2. Industry Hills..Ike is just killer. Babe is straight jacket golf, tight and nasty.
3. PGA West Stadium..no comment needed.
4. Lost Canyons in Simi Valley..shot values are ridiculous, impossible, place is a joke.
5. Torrey Pines South...I don't know about you, but playing a 7600+ yd. course is tough.
6. Maderas CC..Nice place, Johnny Miller knows how to build impossible courses..ie. The Bridges in San Ramon.
7. CrossCreek (from the tips). Very nasty. Very, very few people play from the tips here.
8. Redhawk (from the tips) See #7.
9. Brookside #1 (from the tips).. plays much harder than you think, or expect from the layout.
10. Oak Valley..not the most difficult, but a solid, solid test of golf.

Here is my top 5

1) T. Pines South (with how it is now setup with the killer rough etc. it doesnt make top 5 without the changes)
2) PGA West Stadium Course
3) Lost Canyons AKA Lost Balls
4) La Purisma (It is all wind here. If it is not a windy day its not that bad)
5) RedHawk

I love all the courses you mentioned being an EX SLO resident and a current SD resident but i gotta tell you i HATED Monarch Dunes. I will never pay to play there again. That is the stupidest golf course layout wise and has the most stiff greens I have ever played.

If you can get on, is it worth playing Aviara? How about Torrey North? or would you play Torrey South twice if you had only 2-3 rounds in the area? We are staying in SD in July, then 3 days in LA- any must plays in LA?

That is a pretty good list, I would add Trump National, Riviera CC, Valencia CC, Griffith Park Wilson, Lakewood, Los Serranos (home of Jack's Blacks longest course in CA... whenever someone passes him up he gets out the tractor and moves a tee box back a few yards) Needless to say all from the back tees...

AND...

just about any LA muni... try playing a 6 hour round, now THAT is tough!

I have PMd you my number we can chat if you would like however this is my list for San Diego as far as my favorite golf courses. As far as LA is concerned I would really suggest Angeles National.

San Diego (This excludes the Country Clubs because obviously you cant play those however there are some awesome ones)

1) Torrey Pines South: Why? Because it is torrey pines and you just have to play it once. It is kind of like when I lived in Monterey and everyone wanted to know where they HAD to play. I would always say Pebble just to say you have. In all honesty I actually think that Maderas is a "nicer" golf course but it does not have the prestige or ocean views. Just like I would say I like Spyglass better than Pebble. In fact many people that do the Monterey golf trip that play all 4 (Spy, Pebble, Spanish, Poppy) many times they will say they were the least impressed with Pebble. It is just the name. Back on topic views are breathtaking the golf course has an awesome layout everything about it is perfect except...the North Course. Don't get me wrong the north course is nothing to turn your nose up at but it pales in comparison to the South Course. It is VERY simply (Sneedeker shot a 60 I believe 2 years ago) yet still has great views. However San Diego has better to offer.
2) Maderas: Just a beautiful golf course. Fires damaged a bridge on one hole but still just unbelievable golf here. Worth every penny (and you will pay a pretty one)
3) Barona: When you factor in the money (hey who doesn't) you cannot beat this golf course. They play the nationwide tour championship here for a reason. Tough greens pretty wide open not a single figered hole, each hole has AWSOME character.
4) Torrey Pines North: I would slot the 2 previous courses in front of it.
5) Aviara/La Costa: Heres the deal. These courses are nice. They are great in fact. But they are just simply over priced for what you get. Aviara is the four seasons resort course and it plays like one. Pretty easy layout just awesomely manicured. Probably gets like 20 rounds a day. Same could be said for La Costa. Both nice to say that you have played there but money really shouldn't be an object if this is what your looking at playing. Your talking 200 plus to play either prime time and I would much rather have you play Maderas for that kind of money.

SDgolf, I agree with you about Torrey. You do have to play it once just to play it, the South that is.

Barona is sweet too. Personally, I LOVE Aviara. That course to me plays very very tough from the tips and it rips me a new one every time. A much easier course from the blue tees. Like you said, immaculate and it has the prettiest par 3's in SoCal. I was disappointed in LaCosta. I didn't like the layout and I thought it was rather boring.

Santa Barbara local here. Have to agree with La Purisima, Sandpiper, Marshallia, Rancho San Marcos, even Glenn Annie.

The only course I had the opportunity to play there was Pelican Hill in Newport Beach. I played the original South course. It was amazing! imo

The staff there treated me like a king and I had a fantastic time there!

I'd recommend it to anyone who has the chance to play there.

Bud dont get me wrong I dig Aviara. I hope my post didnt come off that I was dissing it. What I am saying is i would slot maderas and barona in front of it. No comparision difficulty wise compared to those to. La Costa is boring. Aviara is about 75 dollars to expensive if you ask me. That is the only knock I have. It really does not justify that big of a price tag.

I got ya. I agree with you totally about the green fees at Avi....waaaaay too much. But with it being with the Four Seasons, they get away with it.

Riviera...isn't that private?

Riviera is private, but not that hard to get onto.

Personally I think Los Serranos is an abomination and I only play there because, once in awhile, I am forced into it (for instance,
they would not let my 85 year old grandparents take a cart on a 95 degree day to watch me play in a tournament. They drove over an hour to get there, then had to go home). Also, the golf course is just never going to be in good shape.

If you're looking for good places to play in the IE, consider:
-Empire Lakes in Rancho
-Oak Quarry in Riverside
-Oak Valley in Beaumont

I'd also definitely play Brookside #1- it is a hidden gem.

How does one get around to play at Riviera.. I would love to give the course a try...What are the guest fee $$ ?.Anyone ???

What??...Riviera is one of the nicest tracks in the country. Unless you know a member, I am sure it is not easy to gain access to it.

Please explain how it is "not that hard to get onto."

One way to get on Riviera easily is to play one of the outside tournaments they have there regularly. In fact there is one this Monday

http://www.charitygolfonline.com/searchRes...p?uniqueId=1960

If you don't want to pay the tax deductible fees for a charity tournament, they do take reciprical play, have your pro call. You won't get 8am Saturday, but they will squeeze you in. If your pro doesn't have a connection, there are a lot of members and corporate memberships out there. If you play Rancho Park, or other west side public tracks you will eventually meet a Riviera member... they don't have enough tee times to get all the members out on weekends so they are playing the munis...

I don't know what the guest fee is, my buddy who is a member won't let me pay... and I have never asked. I just get dinner and the bar tab, I know I am not coming out ahead on that exchange.

Thanks for info, SD. Got your PM- didnt get a chance to call but am grateful for your input. Still unsure where we'll be staying but am trying to get on Torrey South. Sounds like Maderas is best 2nd choice overall. Looking forward to some Southern Cal hospitality!

There are plenty of awesome courses in your neck of the woods.

Eagle Glen- Corona
Hidden Valley- Corona
Oak Quarry- Riverside
Empire Lakes- (Palmer design) Ontario
Oak Valley- Beaumont
PGA Southern - Beaumont
Black Gold - Yorba Linda
Arroyo Trabuco- Mission Viejo
Oak Creek-Irvine
Strawberry Farms- Irvine

and all the others listed are also great courses. Most of the courses I have played myself and could vouch for them.