Full Version: Ball in a divot
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After many years of playing golf and always being faithful to the "play the ball as you find it" advice, I came to think that when the ball is lying in a divot there should be a liberation rule. The divot changes the course in an unfair way and many times punish arbitrarily a good golf shot. Am I responsible for others divots? Don't think so. You can see pro's caddies cleaning bunkers and greens to let them undamaged, but a fairway divot is so difficult to be repaired.
What do you think?
i think you should be able to move the ball out the divot because the sand is supposed to be a hazard of sorts and your supposed to rake them and expect decent lies but you can hit a perfect drive in the middle of the fairway and have a divot aiming 30 yards left, most of the time its hard to repair your divots i know when riding you have the bottles to fill in divots on the cart
I was in a match play tournament and in the final round on the 18th all square I blast my tee shot down the center and my competitor hooked his in the trees. My ball was in a divot so that led to a couple bad shots and a bogey. My competitor chipped out and got up and down for par. I really should have birdied that hole from where I was. Instead I was almost 3 inches deep in a beaver pelt. So you can understand why I thing this rule should be changed.
Worst rule in golf and I would love to see it changed.
If anyone can make a plausible argument for this rule I would love to hear it.
Added: I think the rule should be changed for shots in the fairway only. If you are in a divot in the rough, then tough luck obviously.
If anyone can make a plausible argument for this rule I would love to hear it.
Added: I think the rule should be changed for shots in the fairway only. If you are in a divot in the rough, then tough luck obviously.
Jack Nicklaus thinks it should be changed too. That's good enough for me.
Its a great sand baggers rule.
Play at cheap courses and play from the divots thus inflating your handicap.
When you play a tourney at the well groomed, divot free, private club everyone thinks your sandbagging.
My favorite is when there are 3 or more identical divots in a line, where someone obviously took three shots and didn't bother to replace the carpet samples they sprayed 20 ft down the fairway... I mean they had to drop their other two balls in such a way as to not land in their own divot, you'd think they'd at least clean up there mess.
I'd love to take some of their divots back to the parking lot and slide them through the crack in the offending player's car window.
Play at cheap courses and play from the divots thus inflating your handicap.
When you play a tourney at the well groomed, divot free, private club everyone thinks your sandbagging.
My favorite is when there are 3 or more identical divots in a line, where someone obviously took three shots and didn't bother to replace the carpet samples they sprayed 20 ft down the fairway... I mean they had to drop their other two balls in such a way as to not land in their own divot, you'd think they'd at least clean up there mess.
I'd love to take some of their divots back to the parking lot and slide them through the crack in the offending player's car window.
I disagree with all of you so far. Until golf is played indoors on a carpet, balls in a divot hole will always be just part of the game, one's bad luck (undoubtedly someone would still complain about a ball ending up in a seam - LOL). Why stop at moving balls from divots? If you don't like the lie for any reason, why not take free relief? I have more problems with downhill lies than I do playing the ball from a divot; can I take relief from those lies instead?
When a ball is going OB and it hits a tree and ends up in the fairway, does one not accept the good luck? Do you disregard the fortunate bounce off the tee and re-hit as if it went OB? Then you have the problem of determining when a divot has sufficiently healed to no longer require relief. You think the pace of golf is slow now, wait until everyone has to gather 'round to make a decision by committee to decide if every indentation that a ball rests in is a divot and entitled to relief. When is a divot no longer a divot?
People are spoiled. What conditions do you think courses were in when the game was invented? There is nothing in the game of golf that guarantees one a perfect lie just because they hit it in the "closely mowed area". In fact, I don't believe the Rules ever mention the word "fairway" but I could be wrong. f you hit it in the rough and the ball is sitting up as pretty as can be, do you step on it to make the shot as penalizing as the rough was supposed to make it? First of all, I play twice a week, have played golf for about 50 years and only occasionally, and not very often, have had a ball end up in a divot, so it doesn't occur all the time. Secondly, it is not that difficult to play from a divot and there is great satisfaction to be had in pulling off a "golf shot" once you learn to do it.
Golf is supposed to be a challenge. It is played outdoors. Wind, rain, heat, cold, course conditions, good luck, bad luck, bad lies are all part of the challenge that golf presents. Face up to them!
When a ball is going OB and it hits a tree and ends up in the fairway, does one not accept the good luck? Do you disregard the fortunate bounce off the tee and re-hit as if it went OB? Then you have the problem of determining when a divot has sufficiently healed to no longer require relief. You think the pace of golf is slow now, wait until everyone has to gather 'round to make a decision by committee to decide if every indentation that a ball rests in is a divot and entitled to relief. When is a divot no longer a divot?
People are spoiled. What conditions do you think courses were in when the game was invented? There is nothing in the game of golf that guarantees one a perfect lie just because they hit it in the "closely mowed area". In fact, I don't believe the Rules ever mention the word "fairway" but I could be wrong. f you hit it in the rough and the ball is sitting up as pretty as can be, do you step on it to make the shot as penalizing as the rough was supposed to make it? First of all, I play twice a week, have played golf for about 50 years and only occasionally, and not very often, have had a ball end up in a divot, so it doesn't occur all the time. Secondly, it is not that difficult to play from a divot and there is great satisfaction to be had in pulling off a "golf shot" once you learn to do it.
Golf is supposed to be a challenge. It is played outdoors. Wind, rain, heat, cold, course conditions, good luck, bad luck, bad lies are all part of the challenge that golf presents. Face up to them!
Rub of the green, boys... Play it as it lies! 
It's what makes this game so challenging and great (and frustrating at times).
It's what makes this game so challenging and great (and frustrating at times).
Man up. Play it as you find it.
Should one of us get the chance, we should ask Trevor Immelman about this rule, since it really hurt him.... 
Bad breaks, good breaks, probably all balances out in the end. I agree with phil75050 that such a rule would open up a pandora's box of hassles and loose interpretations that could end up having a huge effect on how the game's played. I also agree that people tend to be spoiled, lazy too - who knows maybe in a couple hundred years lift, clean and place will be standard practice. As it stands it seems like people who play the ball down are in a slight minority.
QUOTE(phil75070 @ May 28 2008, 07:55 PM) 
I disagree with all of you so far. Until golf is played indoors on a carpet, balls in a divot hole will always be just part of the game, one's bad luck (undoubtedly someone would still complain about a ball ending up in a seam - LOL). Why stop at moving balls from divots? If you don't like the lie for any reason, why not take free relief? I have more problems with downhill lies than I do playing the ball from a divot; can I take relief from those lies instead?
When a ball is going OB and it hits a tree and ends up in the fairway, does one not accept the good luck? Do you disregard the fortunate bounce off the tee and re-hit as if it went OB? Then you have the problem of determining when a divot has sufficiently healed to no longer require relief. You think the pace of golf is slow now, wait until everyone has to gather 'round to make a decision by committee to decide if every indentation that a ball rests in is a divot and entitled to relief. When is a divot no longer a divot?
People are spoiled. What conditions do you think courses were in when the game was invented? There is nothing in the game of golf that guarantees one a perfect lie just because they hit it in the "closely mowed area". In fact, I don't believe the Rules ever mention the word "fairway" but I could be wrong. f you hit it in the rough and the ball is sitting up as pretty as can be, do you step on it to make the shot as penalizing as the rough was supposed to make it? First of all, I play twice a week, have played golf for about 50 years and only occasionally, and not very often, have had a ball end up in a divot, so it doesn't occur all the time. Secondly, it is not that difficult to play from a divot and there is great satisfaction to be had in pulling off a "golf shot" once you learn to do it.
Golf is supposed to be a challenge. It is played outdoors. Wind, rain, heat, cold, course conditions, good luck, bad luck, bad lies are all part of the challenge that golf presents. Face up to them!
When a ball is going OB and it hits a tree and ends up in the fairway, does one not accept the good luck? Do you disregard the fortunate bounce off the tee and re-hit as if it went OB? Then you have the problem of determining when a divot has sufficiently healed to no longer require relief. You think the pace of golf is slow now, wait until everyone has to gather 'round to make a decision by committee to decide if every indentation that a ball rests in is a divot and entitled to relief. When is a divot no longer a divot?
People are spoiled. What conditions do you think courses were in when the game was invented? There is nothing in the game of golf that guarantees one a perfect lie just because they hit it in the "closely mowed area". In fact, I don't believe the Rules ever mention the word "fairway" but I could be wrong. f you hit it in the rough and the ball is sitting up as pretty as can be, do you step on it to make the shot as penalizing as the rough was supposed to make it? First of all, I play twice a week, have played golf for about 50 years and only occasionally, and not very often, have had a ball end up in a divot, so it doesn't occur all the time. Secondly, it is not that difficult to play from a divot and there is great satisfaction to be had in pulling off a "golf shot" once you learn to do it.
Golf is supposed to be a challenge. It is played outdoors. Wind, rain, heat, cold, course conditions, good luck, bad luck, bad lies are all part of the challenge that golf presents. Face up to them!
I think you went a little overboard with the free relief thing, but I do agree with the sort of give and take relationship between golfer and course and luck (ball off a tree and into the fairway). But then again... what if my course doesn't have trees to stop the balls from going OB or what if it misses the trees all day long and I never catch a lucky break? Better to be good than lucky I guess eh?
I know that finding your ball in a divot can be a real frequent problem on courses where the average player has to lay up to water. It is definitely annoying to hit your ball into the fairway, just short of the water, to only find it lying in some hacker's 3 inch deep divot that never got repaired because the beaver pelt flew into the water hazard. I agree that golfers should not be penalized for hitting a good shot into the fairway and should be allowed relief, similar to the cart patch rule.... it is not my fault that my 300 yard drive stopped on pavement or gravel in the middle of the fairway. Like others have said, fairways only!
For me, the 2 silliest rules in all of golf....
1 - penalty if wind blows ball on green after having addressed it (come on, with todays course conditions a 25-30 gust can cost you a stroke?)
2 - ball in divot in FAIRWAY, I'm talking closely mown, some arseho too lazy to replace or fill. Even filled kind of sucks, but have to draw line somewhere....I guess it's for pace of play as we'd need rulings on every possible less than optimal lie, nonetheless, we play ball down, unless in some dweebs fresh beaver tail that clearly is fairway, then it's roll it out of it.
1 - penalty if wind blows ball on green after having addressed it (come on, with todays course conditions a 25-30 gust can cost you a stroke?)
2 - ball in divot in FAIRWAY, I'm talking closely mown, some arseho too lazy to replace or fill. Even filled kind of sucks, but have to draw line somewhere....I guess it's for pace of play as we'd need rulings on every possible less than optimal lie, nonetheless, we play ball down, unless in some dweebs fresh beaver tail that clearly is fairway, then it's roll it out of it.
I would like to see the spike mark rule on the greens changed before the ball in a divot rule.
QUOTE(lebanontngolfer @ May 28 2008, 07:13 PM)
Rub of the green, boys... Play it as it lies!
It's what makes this game so challenging and great (and frustrating at times).
It's what makes this game so challenging and great (and frustrating at times).
lebanontngolfer , You need to look up the definition for rub of the green. Common mistake.
Whoever said golf is supposed to be fair? Twice in my career, I have had to take unplayable lies from divots in the middle of the fairway where my ball was so deep, I could not safely advance it...
Part of the game, blame the idiots who didn't fix their pot holes, not the rules of golf.
If the rule was to be changed, how would you define a divot, and when would it become playable again?
Kevin
KevCarter, right o', my mistake! Should have said, "Ay, there's the rub!" in my best Irish brogue. 
...all a part of the game.
Instead of feeling sorry for yourself because you were in a divot....you should instead take pride in your ability to make birdie/par from the divot.
For golf and in life....things aren't always fair.....
Instead of feeling sorry for yourself because you were in a divot....you should instead take pride in your ability to make birdie/par from the divot.
For golf and in life....things aren't always fair.....
QUOTE(lebanontngolfer @ May 28 2008, 09:01 PM)
KevCarter, right o', my mistake! Should have said, "Ay, there's the rub!" in my best Irish brogue.
QUOTE(hbear @ May 28 2008, 09:02 PM)
...all a part of the game.
Instead of feeling sorry for yourself because you were in a divot....you should instead take pride in your ability to make birdie/par from the divot.
For golf and in life....things aren't always fair.....
Instead of feeling sorry for yourself because you were in a divot....you should instead take pride in your ability to make birdie/par from the divot.
For golf and in life....things aren't always fair.....
lebanontngolfer, thank you for taking my comment in the spirit it was intended! You sir are a gentleman...
hbear, one of my situations was a big tournament with amateur partners, and on the 18th hole. They all said I should get relief. I knew better. I took my penalty and dropped, and hit a wedge to 6 inches. I have never been so proud of myself hitting a golf shot while overcoming adversity. What an AWESOME feeling!!! one of the many reasons golf is such a GREAT game!!!
Kevin
I'm out there having fun most of the time, and I'd like to improve at the same time. Some of my golfin' buddies keep score and we're semi-competitive, so I'll usually play it where it lies in these situations. But the other 1/2 of the time, I'm either out by myself or possibly put into a group with people I've never played with before. If the other players are cool, I may roll out of a huge divot.
I don't play in weekly leagues, or the co-ed weekly scramble. So playing to the "letter of the law" isn't as important to me. Next, my home course is a 27 hole muni. Its very well kept, but it is open to the public and sometimes you just can't keep the hacks and drunks off of the course. This is my problem with the rule. There are too many players that simply don't attempt to replace their divots at all. I hate that. Even if my divot flies into 6 pieces, I'm still trying to pick up what I can to place it back in the turf.
I can seriously just walk around the greens and fix ball marks for hours if I wanted. So, the take pride in your game and don't feel sorry for yourself comment. . .blah blah, its a game--golf. Its not like we're cheating on our term paper or something
I don't play in weekly leagues, or the co-ed weekly scramble. So playing to the "letter of the law" isn't as important to me. Next, my home course is a 27 hole muni. Its very well kept, but it is open to the public and sometimes you just can't keep the hacks and drunks off of the course. This is my problem with the rule. There are too many players that simply don't attempt to replace their divots at all. I hate that. Even if my divot flies into 6 pieces, I'm still trying to pick up what I can to place it back in the turf.
I can seriously just walk around the greens and fix ball marks for hours if I wanted. So, the take pride in your game and don't feel sorry for yourself comment. . .blah blah, its a game--golf. Its not like we're cheating on our term paper or something
.... it is not my fault that my 300 yard drive stopped on pavement or gravel in the middle of the fairway. Like others have said, fairways only!
[/quote]
You should have laid up w/ a 3 wood or beefed up and hit it 305
[/quote]
You should have laid up w/ a 3 wood or beefed up and hit it 305
QUOTE(KevCarter @ May 28 2008, 09:13 PM)
hbear, one of my situations was a big tournament with amateur partners, and on the 18th hole. They all said I should get relief. I knew better. I took my penalty and dropped, and hit a wedge to 6 inches. I have never been so proud of myself hitting a golf shot while overcoming adversity. What an AWESOME feeling!!! one of the many reasons golf is such a GREAT game!!!
Kevin
Kevin
I completly agree!
A stuffed approach and conversion to make birdie sure feels good....BUT I don't believe there is a bigger RUSH than what you descibed....especially in competition! (even better in match play when you KNOW your opponant thinks he's going to take the hole)
I tend to make a number of those "saves" each year myself!
Actually just did something similar this past weekend in a friendly tournament....
Hit a great drive that took a REALLY BAD bounce straight right....blocked out by the trees...chip out sideways, put a 9I to 7'...made the putt. Was pretty pleased with myself!
The divot rule may be a "stupid" rule...and yes we all get some bad breaks on the course....but if a person doesn't grind away and take pride in their ability to "save" a score under adversity, that person will truely miss one of the great rushes of the game.
There are far more stupid rules that should be looked at before even considering replacing a ball that ends up in a divot. Repairing spike marks on greens, wind blowing the ball at address etc etc.
Even the pro's have to deal with their ball's landing in divots in the fairway. Sometimes you get the breaks, sometimes you don't. Simple as that.
Having said that, there should be a rule that anyone who makes no attempt to repair their divot (or pitch mark for that matter) should be tied up outside the clubhouse and receive a good kicking from everyone who's there at the time.
I can't see why I'm not employed by the R&A? I have many more fantastic ideas just like this one.
Even the pro's have to deal with their ball's landing in divots in the fairway. Sometimes you get the breaks, sometimes you don't. Simple as that.
Having said that, there should be a rule that anyone who makes no attempt to repair their divot (or pitch mark for that matter) should be tied up outside the clubhouse and receive a good kicking from everyone who's there at the time.
I can't see why I'm not employed by the R&A? I have many more fantastic ideas just like this one.
QUOTE(Samsquanch @ May 28 2008, 10:39 PM)
I would like to see the spike mark rule on the greens changed before the ball in a divot rule.
Why? 99.9% of golfers were soft spikes. I couldn't tell you the last time a spike mark got in my way on the green.
QUOTE(villa @ May 29 2008, 04:10 AM)
Having said that, there should be a rule that anyone who makes no attempt to repair their divot (or pitch mark for that matter) should be tied up outside the clubhouse and receive a good kicking from everyone who's there at the time.
Boy do I agree with this. The problem you have here in North Texas is the type of grass and soil. There are no "pelts" to replace as the divot just disintegrates. All one can do is fill the divot hole with sand. Unfortunately, those who walk don't carry sand bottles so their divots go totally unrepaired unless one of the guys in a cart, assuming someone in a cart is playing with them, follows them around. However, it is the guys in the cart who are being charged more!!!!! Guys will take me to task on this, but walkers should either be charged more (for the damage they do to the course) or made to carry sand bottles around with them. Of course, most of the jerks would probably dump the sand in the first bunker they come to and either bring back an empty bottle or dump that, too!
I play here in Florida and have the same problem as phil75070,there is nothing left of the divot once you hit it. All you can do is replace it with sand, in fact most courses instruct you not to replace your divots if there is one left.It does make it tough especially on the short par 4's as it seems that everybody lays to the same 100yd shot and there are marks everywhere. With that said I still play the ball as it lies anything less is just cheating yourself. Todd
There are many problems with the rules everyone is describing. However the over-riding principle is to maintain fairness while not allowing rules interpretations to provide wiggle room for manufactured advantages.
So, if you were allowed to move your ball from a divot (sand filled or other), you would have to define when a divot is a divot, or a partially re-grown divot, or when a divot is acceptable and no longer a divot. It is the players reponsiblity to repair his/her divots. (you've gotta pay it forward) and if you're playing with someone who doesn't repair divots, make them understand the importance of repairing divots, ball marks, etc.
The same principle applies for repairing spike marks on the green. At what point would one stop repairing spike marks and start making a nice line to the hole for his ball to travel on?
Ultimately, if you're playing a friendly match (which %90 of us are playing %90 of the time) it shouldn't matter. And if you're playing partners are insisting you leave the ball in the un-repaired divot, start hawking them for every little "interpretation" they assume while playing.
divots shmivots!
So, if you were allowed to move your ball from a divot (sand filled or other), you would have to define when a divot is a divot, or a partially re-grown divot, or when a divot is acceptable and no longer a divot. It is the players reponsiblity to repair his/her divots. (you've gotta pay it forward) and if you're playing with someone who doesn't repair divots, make them understand the importance of repairing divots, ball marks, etc.
The same principle applies for repairing spike marks on the green. At what point would one stop repairing spike marks and start making a nice line to the hole for his ball to travel on?
Ultimately, if you're playing a friendly match (which %90 of us are playing %90 of the time) it shouldn't matter. And if you're playing partners are insisting you leave the ball in the un-repaired divot, start hawking them for every little "interpretation" they assume while playing.
divots shmivots!
QUOTE(xan_user @ May 28 2008, 08:50 PM)
Its a great sand baggers rule.
Play at cheap courses and play from the divots thus inflating your handicap.
When you play a tourney at the well groomed, divot free, private club everyone thinks your sandbagging.
My favorite is when there are 3 or more identical divots in a line, where someone obviously took three shots and didn't bother to replace the carpet samples they sprayed 20 ft down the fairway... I mean they had to drop their other two balls in such a way as to not land in their own divot, you'd think they'd at least clean up there mess.
I'd love to take some of their divots back to the parking lot and slide them through the crack in the offending player's car window.
Play at cheap courses and play from the divots thus inflating your handicap.
When you play a tourney at the well groomed, divot free, private club everyone thinks your sandbagging.
My favorite is when there are 3 or more identical divots in a line, where someone obviously took three shots and didn't bother to replace the carpet samples they sprayed 20 ft down the fairway... I mean they had to drop their other two balls in such a way as to not land in their own divot, you'd think they'd at least clean up there mess.
I'd love to take some of their divots back to the parking lot and slide them through the crack in the offending player's car window.
Probably wasn't three shots it was probably three practice swings!!! You work hard to hit the fairway so let's not have to play in a 2 or 3 inch divot! Worst of all is the guy who takes the three practice swings and divots then shanks the ball and walk back to the cart without fixing his divots!?
QUOTE(Tmiller72 @ May 29 2008, 06:59 AM)
QUOTE(Samsquanch @ May 28 2008, 10:39 PM)
I would like to see the spike mark rule on the greens changed before the ball in a divot rule.
Why? 99.9% of golfers were soft spikes. I couldn't tell you the last time a spike mark got in my way on the green.
Soft spikes just make wider marks when the guy (or gal) can't pick there feet up! I played behind a foursome this past weekend and someone left marks EVERYWHERE they walked, can't believe someone in his group didn't say something to him.
QUOTE(blade_man @ May 29 2008, 06:39 AM)
QUOTE(xan_user @ May 28 2008, 08:50 PM)
Its a great sand baggers rule.
Play at cheap courses and play from the divots thus inflating your handicap.
When you play a tourney at the well groomed, divot free, private club everyone thinks your sandbagging.
My favorite is when there are 3 or more identical divots in a line, where someone obviously took three shots and didn't bother to replace the carpet samples they sprayed 20 ft down the fairway... I mean they had to drop their other two balls in such a way as to not land in their own divot, you'd think they'd at least clean up there mess.
I'd love to take some of their divots back to the parking lot and slide them through the crack in the offending player's car window.
Play at cheap courses and play from the divots thus inflating your handicap.
When you play a tourney at the well groomed, divot free, private club everyone thinks your sandbagging.
My favorite is when there are 3 or more identical divots in a line, where someone obviously took three shots and didn't bother to replace the carpet samples they sprayed 20 ft down the fairway... I mean they had to drop their other two balls in such a way as to not land in their own divot, you'd think they'd at least clean up there mess.
I'd love to take some of their divots back to the parking lot and slide them through the crack in the offending player's car window.
Probably wasn't three shots it was probably three practice swings!!! You work hard to hit the fairway so let's not have to play in a 2 or 3 inch divot! Worst of all is the guy who takes the three practice swings and divots then shanks the ball and walk back to the cart without fixing his divots!?
The third (and sometimes 4th) divot indicates to me it wasn't practice swings.
Still, what can we as golfers do to encourage people replace there frigging divots.
Maybe the marshal could hand out free drink tickets or green fee discounts to random people that he/she observes actually replacing divots?
Im not in favor of a rule change, but id like to see people called on bad behavior more.
To a certain degree, I'm playing devil's advocate here but the "define a divot" thing gets a little out of control in my opinion. Makes me think you're listening to Frank Thomas a little too much. If you are in the fairway, you ought to be allowed a free drop no matter what. Forget about defining if it is a divot or not. Now the question is "are you in the fairway". 
At one time, nobody marked a ball on the green. If someone's ball was in your way when putting, too bad. I doubt anyone would argue that rule change was bad. In fact, we move our marks when they are in the way.
At one time, nobody marked a ball on the green. If someone's ball was in your way when putting, too bad. I doubt anyone would argue that rule change was bad. In fact, we move our marks when they are in the way.
Difine a ball mark as opposed to spike mark.
I don't see too many spike marks, I do see alot of strange 'ball marks' that are in the general shape of a foot though.
I don't see too many spike marks, I do see alot of strange 'ball marks' that are in the general shape of a foot though.
I’m a deep-divot kind of golfer, always trying to hit the ball down with my irons, but never take a divot in my practice swing, which is counter productive. I’ve even saw many guys taking divots on the tee while making a practice swing. They should be charged the repairing costs!
Back to the divot rules:
1. What about defining a divot as a fairway damage caused by a club swing at least xx balls long and xx balls width.
2. What about allowing hand replacement of the ball not close to the green and at a distance not far than 1 ball around the perimeter of the divot?
BTW 1: why can’t a divot repairing tool be designed? A little garden tool or something like that could be useful enough to level the ground.
BTW 2: I can’t see the point of using sand to repair divots. Why not some compact seeded soil?
Back to the divot rules:
1. What about defining a divot as a fairway damage caused by a club swing at least xx balls long and xx balls width.
2. What about allowing hand replacement of the ball not close to the green and at a distance not far than 1 ball around the perimeter of the divot?
BTW 1: why can’t a divot repairing tool be designed? A little garden tool or something like that could be useful enough to level the ground.
BTW 2: I can’t see the point of using sand to repair divots. Why not some compact seeded soil?
QUOTE(DLiver @ May 28 2008, 09:16 PM)
Man up. Play it as you find it.
I respectfully disagree. A player shouldn't be punished for hitting a shot in the fairway. Why not play if off a sprinkler head or not be able to move a "carts go here" sign?
Silly rule...
QUOTE(horstmc @ May 29 2008, 12:20 PM)
To a certain degree, I'm playing devil's advocate here but the "define a divot" thing gets a little out of control in my opinion. Makes me think you're listening to Frank Thomas a little too much. If you are in the fairway, you ought to be allowed a free drop no matter what. Forget about defining if it is a divot or not. Now the question is "are you in the fairway".
It's situational
Situation #1
Ok so, now you're "in the fairway" and you look at you're ball and it's in a divot. So you take a drop within two club lengths and play you're shot.
Now the guy you're playing with decides he doesn't like how is ball is slightly above his feet and he argues to the official his ball is in a divot. Maybe it's an old divot which is partially grown over and really isn't a problem.
who knows? and who decides? The official? Do players take advantage of the rules? yes. think tiger and the boulder (loose impediment). think ernie else at the masters taking a drop IN THE WOODS b/c his ball was under "debris" left over from some tree trimming a few months before.
Situation #2
the rules official has been sleeping with a players wife and now the official is in love with her. He decides he will not allow said player to take relief from situational divot because he's holding a grudge.
relief from divots? it'll be CHAOS!
QUOTE(inmens @ May 29 2008, 03:50 PM)
[...]
BTW 1: why can’t a divot repairing tool be designed? A little garden tool or something like that could be useful enough to level the ground.
BTW 1: why can’t a divot repairing tool be designed? A little garden tool or something like that could be useful enough to level the ground.
It's called your foot.
QUOTE
BTW 2: I can’t see the point of using sand to repair divots. Why not some compact seeded soil?
Most places I've played here in Florida use sand mixed with seed.
I wish people would stop whining. Learn to hit the ball out of the divot. It can be done, and even a hack like me can do it. It just takes a little practice at the range - instead of hitting every practice shot off a perfect lie, hit some of them out of divots.
Honestly, adversity is part of the game. I've seen perfect shots hit pebbles and end up behind a tree. Of course, I've seen a crummy shot hit a tree and end up 3 feet from the hole. Them's the breaks, deal with it or play billiards.
Why not just tee it up in the fairway? If you're looking for a perfect lie, that's the only way you're going to get it.
If your course is loaded with unrepaired divots, give the greenskeeper an earful.
I think the spike mark issue on greens should be addressed. If the intent of softspikes was to help the greens, they are an experiment that failed miserably. Too many foot dragging mouth-breathers leave marks that are just as bad as when people played with metal spikes.
I understand the idea of a better lie since you aren't in the rough, but that same logic applies even more on the green.
If your course is loaded with unrepaired divots, give the greenskeeper an earful.
I think the spike mark issue on greens should be addressed. If the intent of softspikes was to help the greens, they are an experiment that failed miserably. Too many foot dragging mouth-breathers leave marks that are just as bad as when people played with metal spikes.
I understand the idea of a better lie since you aren't in the rough, but that same logic applies even more on the green.
QUOTE(Avatar @ May 29 2008, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE(DLiver @ May 28 2008, 09:16 PM)
Man up. Play it as you find it.
I respectfully disagree. A player shouldn't be punished for hitting a shot in the fairway. Why not play if off a sprinkler head or not be able to move a "carts go here" sign?
Silly rule...
If you are not in a competition, go ahead and move it. The USGA Handicap manual makes provisions for posting scores where all 18 holes are not played according to the Rules. You will just be playing "golf" and not "Golf". How you could honestly say you shot such and such a score is beyond me, however.
QUOTE(phil75070 @ May 29 2008, 08:54 PM)
QUOTE(Avatar @ May 29 2008, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE(DLiver @ May 28 2008, 09:16 PM)
Man up. Play it as you find it.
I respectfully disagree. A player shouldn't be punished for hitting a shot in the fairway. Why not play if off a sprinkler head or not be able to move a "carts go here" sign?
Silly rule...
If you are not in a competition, go ahead and move it. The USGA Handicap manual makes provisions for posting scores where all 18 holes are not played according to the Rules. You will just be playing "golf" and not "Golf". How you could honestly say you shot such and such a score is beyond me, however.
I said it was a silly rule, not that I don't follow it. Don't assume...
QUOTE(Avatar @ May 29 2008, 08:01 PM)
QUOTE(phil75070 @ May 29 2008, 08:54 PM)
QUOTE(Avatar @ May 29 2008, 04:55 PM)
QUOTE(DLiver @ May 28 2008, 09:16 PM)
Man up. Play it as you find it.
I respectfully disagree. A player shouldn't be punished for hitting a shot in the fairway. Why not play if off a sprinkler head or not be able to move a "carts go here" sign?
Silly rule...
If you are not in a competition, go ahead and move it. The USGA Handicap manual makes provisions for posting scores where all 18 holes are not played according to the Rules. You will just be playing "golf" and not "Golf". How you could honestly say you shot such and such a score is beyond me, however.
I said it was a silly rule, not that I don't follow it. Don't assume...
Didn't assume that you didn't follow the rule. I just said you could go ahead and move it under certain conditions. I should have been more "generic" in my comments and substituted "one" for "you".
The rule should not be changed, play it as it lies, period.
Now that being said I think it would behoove a lot of people to quit standing on the range and hitting balls off of perfect lies, you should practice out of divots, I actually find this helps my ball striking, forces you to hit down on the ball and hit it crisp. Nothing pisses you off like finding your ball in a divot after a perfect drive, but nothing gives you satisfaction like hitting a good shot from one either.
The big problem with changing this rule would be defining what exactly is a divot. What if the divot is just a small one? What if the divot is mostly grown in? What if it is just an indention in the ground? What if it is just a dead patch of grass? Can you imagine the rulings? The game of golf takes long enough as it is, I can just see the PGA with the players asking for a rules offical every single time they dont like their lie, "I think it is in an old divot" etc.
JMO
Now that being said I think it would behoove a lot of people to quit standing on the range and hitting balls off of perfect lies, you should practice out of divots, I actually find this helps my ball striking, forces you to hit down on the ball and hit it crisp. Nothing pisses you off like finding your ball in a divot after a perfect drive, but nothing gives you satisfaction like hitting a good shot from one either.
The big problem with changing this rule would be defining what exactly is a divot. What if the divot is just a small one? What if the divot is mostly grown in? What if it is just an indention in the ground? What if it is just a dead patch of grass? Can you imagine the rulings? The game of golf takes long enough as it is, I can just see the PGA with the players asking for a rules offical every single time they dont like their lie, "I think it is in an old divot" etc.
JMO
QUOTE(dlygrisse @ May 30 2008, 10:37 AM)
The rule should not be changed, play it as it lies, period.
Now that being said I think it would behoove a lot of people to quit standing on the range and hitting balls off of perfect lies, you should practice out of divots, I actually find this helps my ball striking, forces you to hit down on the ball and hit it crisp. Nothing pisses you off like finding your ball in a divot after a perfect drive, but nothing gives you satisfaction like hitting a good shot from one either.
JMO
Now that being said I think it would behoove a lot of people to quit standing on the range and hitting balls off of perfect lies, you should practice out of divots, I actually find this helps my ball striking, forces you to hit down on the ball and hit it crisp. Nothing pisses you off like finding your ball in a divot after a perfect drive, but nothing gives you satisfaction like hitting a good shot from one either.
JMO
You are right. Practicing in the perfect mats of a range usually destroys my ball striking. They are way too much forgiving.
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